(Discussion): Why does mainstream messaging focus solely on improving men's problematic behavior in furtherance of a better world? Is it A. Women don't have sufficient problematic behavior to correct, or B. Society only cares to regulate men's behavior? Or something else?

mrcs84usn · 2019-01-16T23:44:09+00:00

Because mainstream messaging is a product sold to women

Did you see this commercial or find out about it from trp/ppd ragebaiting? I havent even seen a commercial in probably 2 years

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-01-16T23:45:01+00:00

It’s because “good men” battling the “bad men” for the betterment of society (women) has been THE male gender role from time immemorial.

It’s ridiculous in practicality. Like no, I’m sorry those “urban youths” cat-called you, but I’m not going to go over there and defend your honor and correct their behavior. I like not being stabbed.

And same goes for board rooms. I love how that Gillette commercial assumed the average man even has access to a boardroom setting in which he even has the opportunity to stand up for the ladies. Most men have never seen the inside of a boardroom and are certainly not going to call their CEO ‘sexist’ to the detriment of their own career. I enjoy my job and getting paid. She’s a big girl; if she had a problem with anyway she was treated then she can go to HR. Acting entitled to men self-sacrificing their bodies and livelihoods is so incredibly ironic for a feminist, that I’m surprised their brains don’t explode.

We need to have a talk about bodily autonomy and this idea that men should self-sacrifice to the benefit of women. For an ideology that so strongly believes in some moral high ground bodily autonomy concept, they sure feel entitled to men sacrificing their bodies and careers for their benefit.

MMDT · 2019-01-17T00:17:02+00:00

As the late great Patrice O'Neal said... we live in a world where being what a man is is a horrible thing, and being a woman, no matter what, is a wonderful thing.

It's incredible how women are allowed to hate themselves, have negative personalities, no skills whatsoever and yet they get told every day that "no man is good enough". Nobody is allowed to criticize them or dispute that.

Meanwhile majority of men are forced to cold approach women, get rejected by 90-100% of them, so they then get frustrated and vent on an online anonymous forum that they're upset... Women and others turn around and tell them to change their attitudes and get more confident. Absolutely incredible.

MisterJose · 2019-01-17T00:56:35+00:00

It all stems from the white male oppressor narrative. The white men in power are the cause of all the problems, and can't possibly have problems of their own worth talking about, at least when compared to the actual problems of the oppressed. You'd be amazed how much misery could be alleviated if we just simply ditched that nonsense and realized everyone has problems.

MGTOWtoday · 2019-01-17T06:22:19+00:00

That’s a damn good question. We teach boys from the age of 4 to “never hit a girl”. We never teach girls not to be selfish and greedy. We never teach them to take responsibility for their actions or not to be manipulative or vindictive. We never teach them to be honest and faithful. To be devoted wives and caring mothers. Hell, most mothers these days don’t even teach their daughters to cook. The only message we tell young girls is that they’re powerful and can do anything. We teach young boys that their natural innate masculinity is the cause of all the world’s problems. Given all this, it seems like it’s a miracle that there aren’t millions of Elliot Rodgers.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-01-17T02:24:27+00:00

what messaging would you like to see regarding women, if you could wave a magic wand

ksilvia12 · 2019-01-17T03:26:14+00:00

Because there's an effort by feminists to empower women and devalue all the characteristics about masculinity they find problematic. Men are just held to a higher standard in our society and we're biologically primed to want to protect women. But yea in general there's been a concerted effort by feminists through academia, the media and politicians to empower women and neglect the issues or deem them non existent that men face.

321PK · 2019-01-16T23:37:36+00:00

It’s because girls haven taken over the media while guys are stemming themselves to death devising new platforms for us to grab the zeitgeist by the balls. Pretty simple.

mgtow_1 · 2019-01-17T01:24:38+00:00

Society mostly focuses on controlling/regulating male behavior.

SimulatedEnvironment · 2019-01-17T02:54:46+00:00

Not sure about how everyone else feels but while I’m male, I’m not responsible for the behavior of other males. Just because I share your gender doesn’t make us close to where I share some culpability, and therefore a sense of duty, for your actions.

The closer we get to generalizing the behavior of some people as the de-facto behavior of the gender as a whole the less we’re seen as individuals.

BasedandBlackpilled · 2019-01-17T01:29:13+00:00

A better option would be to get females to quit rewarding "problematic" behavior. Why does toxic masculinity exist? Because females reward it. Felon/Gang member Jeremy Meeks marries and knocks up a billionaire heiress. Women still go crazy for Chris Brown. R. Kelly's streaming numbers are going sky high and women are screaming for him to take them hostage.

All of this toxic masculine behavior is not only ignored by women, it is encouraged.

[deleted] · 2019-01-17T07:00:56+00:00

Because there is a push towards collectivism and collective guilt lately and if you’re male you are an “oppressor” by dint of birth so it’s ok to generalize you with all males as responsible for the behavior of bad males.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2019-01-17T01:29:55+00:00

Follow the money.

kandyapplez · 2019-01-17T02:40:01+00:00

by "society" you mean the activists and advertisers who work collaboratively to bring issues to the forefront

its becus men don't care enough about womens problematic behavior. they don't complain loud enough or present it in a way that seems profitable. they would literally rather spend time screeching online than doing the irl work that feminists have done to make men's bullshit a pressing topic

donkeydodo · 2019-01-17T01:12:38+00:00

Women are reactionary towards men. Most women are by default oriented towards relationship, family, etc. But growing up in current western society makes those things seem like impossible dreams, better focus on career instead. That's essentially the mindset of women, if there were better guys, they would instantly act right.

An example, when I'm around attractive guys, masculine guys etc, my femininity JUMPS out. I see these guys as options, even if I'm not actively thinking it. The vast majority of guys nowadays are semi androgynous, fuckboys, addicted to fortnite, or have something that makes them not worthy of womens Best Behavior. This makes women modify their behavior, "Oh these guys aren't reeaaaalllll options". When I'm in one of my favorite classes with some guys who I'm not attracted to or what have you, I'll act however I want, bantering with the professor and saying wild shit. When I'm around men who exhibit strong masculinity, my feminine energy immediately reacts.

Men lead, women follow. Men become more feminine, women become more masculine.

SavingMasculinity · 2019-01-17T09:02:54+00:00

Dollar Shave Club is better, and cheaper. I used to use Gillette, but now I am sent new razors each month. It's pretty awesome.

So Gillette doesn't promote approaching women because they're hot. Cool, Ima do it anyway.

TessaBrooding · 2019-01-17T10:07:33+00:00

Maybe it's just that women's problematic behaviour doesn't primarily involve assault.

Thinking of men's undesirable behaviour, I think of actively physically assaulting others (rape, abuse, fighting, etc).

Thinking of women's undesirable behaviour, I think of false accusations, being overly demanding and entitled, getting away with domestic abuse, and only going after the aspects of gender equality which favour them.

shonenhikada · 2019-01-17T11:40:39+00:00

Men are women's slaves. Sex is the doggy treat for good behavior. You not aware? Men live to work and provide for women.

RedPill-BlackLotus · 2019-01-17T15:55:32+00:00

Its because there are legions of sexually thirsty simps out there that buy into this shit. Men throwing men under the buss.

Its 2019, if I woman feels threatened or sexually objectified all the levels of power work to her advantage. Even if shes lying.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2019-01-17T17:01:22+00:00

Something something patriarchy something something undoing the wrongs something something before pointing fingers at women

max_peenor · 2019-01-16T23:50:04+00:00

C) They are completely delusional on who behaves how.

I quote myself in reference to their youtube posting: " The very first word of their description is 'bullying.' The second is harassment. I will agree that men do plenty of the latter. However bullying is the staunch bailiwick of the females of the species. Period. They do FAR more bullying than men. Even LCF pointed this out to me unprompted after I sent her the link."

This is a foundational principle of the red pull--reject a world that is fake for a world that is real, even if it is uncomfortable. We can't even argue about how to handle problem behaviors because we can't even accurately recognize them, spot them and describe them. It's all bullshit. However a hundred years ago it was fairly to agree we all shouldn't shoot each other in the face. We concerned ourselves with basic social order and the bullshit (nationalism, church, whatever) strove to promote that. The blue pill wasn't overtly poisonous. Now we are bitching about micro-aggressions and if someone said something snarky on twitter, while being confused about what gender we are.

The layer of bullshit went from our ankles to over our heads.

larrythetomato · 2019-01-17T03:52:35+00:00

Thoughts on which it might be, or if there's some other possibility?

It is all about money. I am amazed that people believe that giant soulless corporations like Nike and Gillette actually care about social justice.

They are simply betting that the exposure gain and increased engagement from their supporters will earn them more money than what they lose from the alienated group.

[deleted] · 2019-01-17T04:17:49+00:00

It's because women's societal position is still one of relative vulnerability and passivity. One could argue people would want to change that behavior, but it's not actively causing harm like they perceive masculinity to be.

Hrdbldbbsndrkchclt · 2019-01-17T12:53:28+00:00

Civilisations depend upon men being neutered civil orderly and cooperative,

All this toxic masculinity metoo yesmeansyes etc is what is referred to by the sociologist norbert elias as, 'the civilising process'

It is what is needed to neuter males into being civil

LifterofThings · 2019-01-17T20:10:49+00:00

My (rambly) two cents:

I think it's outside of the scope of either of those. When you present those two options, you ignore the precondition that "the mainstream" is starting with.

With the exception of the (increasingly less) fringe manosphere, the narrative goes that women are oppressed, and so criticism of them feels like punching down. We give a lot of lip service to "WOMEN ARE ADULTS" but our society doesn't treat them that way. It's the same mentality that leads us to go "yes, that's a really great drawing!" when a 5-year-old hands you a raggedy mess of an art project rather than being like, "this is good but you could do better."

So it's not that people in general are unaware of women's "toxic femininity" or that they're "okay" with it in a moral sense -- they're just letting it go because if you don't have agency, you can't logically be expected to take responsibility for and improve your behavior.

aanarchist · 2019-01-17T07:43:28+00:00

It's a development of the whore of babylon. A society with women who are of outstanding character don't buy useless shit corporations peddle on them, because there's no bottomless void that needs filling in them. Corporations do not exist without women to peddle garbage to, or beta men who think the way to a woman's heart is in buying useless shit he doesn't need either. Capitalism and democracy leads to degeneracy and decadence.

Women are the "gatekeepers" of morality, for lack of a better way to put it. If you corrupt the society's women, you corrupt the society. A corrupt society is weak and stupid and behaves purely in terms of ego and materialism, and that makes for good slaves.

killallthenarcs · 2019-01-17T05:44:02+00:00

Society only cares about regulating men's behavior, and is perfectly fine with women's problematic behavior

Men's problematic behavior, if left unchallenged, is more inclined to end in them killing or injuring someone. I mean just saying, men's problematic behavior is frequently a significant issue in a way women's rarely is, there's really no sensible way of arguing that it isn't.

Reed_4983 · 2019-01-17T07:57:08+00:00

Imagine the genders being reversed and Gillette making an ad suggesting that women should stop attention-whoring, gold-digging, friend-zoning or being jealous and mean at each other. Just imagine the outrage in that case.

Considering your questions, Gillette is just a capitalist company trying to sell as many products as it can and thus it follows the mainstream narrative. They have absolutely no morals and I wouldn't be surprised if at the same time the CEOs at Gillette abused their position of power to get away with harassing their female employees.

Edit: It seems Gillette really gives two shits about sexism.

[deleted] · 2019-01-17T06:49:05+00:00

Well, for sexual violence men are way more problematic than women. For sexism/gender discrimination/stereotyping and such women are probably worse than men.

SOwED · 2019-01-17T08:03:19+00:00

It's B. Talking about problematic behavior that is mostly perpetuated by men and applying it to all men is the norm now. Doing the same with women is taboo.

Lonny_zone · 2019-01-17T04:07:52+00:00

3.Women and their Cucked Men control the media, and they must think this message sells razors.

The Low T Men this ad would appeal to can't even shave, and women are dumb enough to buy "female" razors at a higher price because they are pink. I don't see how this sells to anyone.

Get woke, go broke.

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hajimenothrowaway · 2019-01-17T08:25:39+00:00

Toxic male behaviors are usually much more explicit than the oxide female behaviors, which often eat overlooked and swept under the rug. Men commit most murders and rapes. These are facts. Women also do those things, as well as paternity fraud, but toxic feminist is mostly about not taking responsibility and having to be the victim in every scenario — like divorces and false rape accusations and taking all a man has in divorce court,

Xemnas81 · 2019-01-17T21:44:18+00:00

Obviously 2. Remember that women control gross consumer spending in homes and also tend to have more free time to hit the high street than men do. If women don't like a product then it will fail-especially when feminists come as the cavalry (cf. Gillette, the suits of which are likely saving their asses from a false rape accusation)

That's the red pill bro. Women are allowed to be egotistic, materialistic, predatory, manipulative, callous and amoral, but also default back to entitlement to protection, provision, validation and victim status. Men must be simultaneously self-reliant and compassionate, stoic yet tender, the strongest of the pack and leaders but BECAUSE they lead they are morally responsible for how they exercise their power.

It is a standard no sane man would try and live up to which is why most who go redpill either go crazy, join the MRM, shove a few blue pills down their throat to ride the cock carousel or justify being a tradcon patriarch under feminist law and policy, or become seriously Dark Triad.

Unless you seriously fuck up then they can't do any worse than 'threaten' to not sleep with you.

the_calibre_cat · 2019-01-17T22:50:47+00:00

Society says "men are the bad gender" without as much as actually saying that. And, the numbers suggest that they're probably right about that... although contemporary feminism and the rest of the physicians summoned to solve the problem are approaching it with the equivalents of leeches and exorcisms, because they refuse to acknowledge what the problems most likely are.

Men are just biologically like this. We're aggressive and, for the vast majority of prehistory and even the majority of civilization, this has been an advantageous trait and, even today, is selected for by women as a sign of masculinity.
Men are hornier and more sexually aggressive than women. Again, this is almost certainly biological, but the powers that be won't ever acknowledge that, if they even acknowledge that "men are hornier" - plenty of feminist articles insisting that that's not true, that that's sexist, that women's sexuality works differently and thus you can't compare the two, etc. Hamstering to the nth degree.

etc. etc. As long as society keeps ignoring the reality of why men are the way they are, the problems will persist. And society will keep doing that - it's much easier to shit on and hate men than actually figure out ways to solve social problems equitably and fairly, and it would require having a discussion on what real "equality" between differently-abled creatures (men and women) actually means.

Feminists just want the free stuff, and they're winning, so... why would they have that conversation?

Christian_Kong · 2019-01-17T01:25:46+00:00

I would say that it's a payback/reckoning for history that many current people had little say in.

It's kind of how minorities are given leeway with racist shit, or white people get extra shit(not sure which one) when doing racist shit. White people had fucked on minorities for a long time so minorities get a pass, men fucked on women so this is the end result. I found the commercial pretty funny. Judging by the 3:1 thumbs down on that video, I would say a lot of people don't find it very funny.

solorathain · 2019-01-17T03:49:15+00:00

Because women are so fucking dumb and weak that they can't be convinced to change their own behavior.

jackandjill22 · 2019-01-17T03:08:30+00:00

Because some men rape and kill people. Women not so much.

peterlongc · 2019-01-17T03:24:05+00:00

men cause the biggest problems when they get out of line [like causing wars where millions of people die]. and you could argue that they are capable of the greatest things when they work on society's behalf (if you're a filthy, sexist patriarchy-lover). so it's really in society's interest to be most careful about male behavior.

plus, women don't really respond that well to criticism

HalfysReddit · 2019-01-17T21:43:03+00:00

Because the bulk of the worst people in society are men.

It's an uncomfortable fact but if you got shot, stabbed, beaten, whatever - odds are it was a man that did it. Do terrible women exist too? No doubt. But when people are scared of other people, most of the people they are scared of are men.

Not to say that there aren't issues with the way we are currently phrasing things, but just to answer your question as to why it is so often framed as a men's issue.

Regal_Newt · 2019-01-17T05:24:20+00:00

I don't believe that women lack problematic behavior altogether. But, I do think that women display a LOT less than men. Men are overwhelming much more likely to rape, sexually assault, physically abuse their partners, murder, become mass shooters.

Women have issues, too, but they really pale in comparison.

poppy_blu · 2019-01-17T00:28:22+00:00

How old are you?

maljo24 · 2019-01-17T13:03:26+00:00

Look at human history. Endless war, genocide, mass murder, mass shootings, terrorism, KKK, armed robbery, home invasion robbery, torture, rape, not paying federal workers - these are mostly done by men. How about a different future?

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