Do you really not see the connection between the desire to be pursued and Grape Culture?

IcyTrapezium · 2024-08-19T21:49:20+00:00

To be clear, I’m not condoning any of this behavior, but: Yes. I see the connection. There are women who like to be aggressively pursued and who enjoy men pressing them to have sex because it makes them feel more desired and it allows them to not have to be responsible or accountable for their desires. A lot of this comes from purity culture where women aren’t supposed to desire sex.

I saw a TikTok that went viral of a woman being mad that a guy didn’t try to sleep with her after she told him she wouldn’t sleep with him that night. This isn’t like extremely uncommon behavior. But it is unhealthy and stupid.

Women like that are toxic. Men who assume women mean “try harder” when they say no are toxic as well. Assume no does mean no and run from any woman who wants you to push her into having sex. Yes, it’s a thing. A thing that used to be been more common. Women were supposed to play hard to get and feign disinterest. But for everyone’s safety, no one should be doing this unless it’s role play where safety and what is being consented to are explicitly discussed beforehand.

ETA: I should say they are behaving in a toxic way, not that they are toxic. The behavior is what is toxic not necessarily the person.

SlothMonster9 · 2024-08-20T08:16:23+00:00

Just want to touch on this bit:

Every single 🍇ist and accused 🍇ist believes this.

“She really wanted it”

“She was just being a tease”

“No means try again”

Every single rapist? You actually think that a woman screaming and fighting to keep the guy off her could actually be seen as "she was just being a tease" by these rapists? No, they knew what they were doing and they didn’t care.

apresonly · 2024-08-19T21:51:00+00:00

i dont think men are too stupid to understand consent

they understand it just fine in situations where there are witnesses and consequences

and women rape men and men rape other men so its not just a pursual thing

The reason I bring this up is I unlike a lot of redpillers actually do believe that there is a 🍇 culture, I just think women often contribute to it just as much if not more so than men

women contribute to it when they blame victims, when they deny that men can be raped, when they themselves espouse ideas that are inconsistent with consent

januaryphilosopher · 2024-08-19T21:06:43+00:00

If you make the first move that means the other person makes the second. Which means reciprocating, not saying no. None of these beliefs conflict with saying that no means back off.

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-08-19T21:10:29+00:00

I don’t believe in reductive gender roles where woman are only persued. I think the idea that women are being hunted is gross and problematic.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-08-19T21:22:18+00:00

Hot take: men don’t pursue because women want them to. Men pursue because they have to. And you can’t blame women for rape culture—your argument fails to consider consent, and the easily identifiable differences between consent and non-consent.

optimistic_entropi · 2024-08-19T21:40:09+00:00

“The man has to make the first move”

“The man has to text/reach out to me first@

“It’s a man’s job to lead/approach”

“Can’t make it seem too easy guys love the chase”

“She really wanted it”

“She was just being a tease”

“No means try again”

I find it ironic that you imply that women are dense directly after failing to see the difference between these terms.

PROVING to her that you want and deserve her and FORCING her to accept you are two very different things.

It really seems like a common breakdown in a lot of these arguments stem from viewing a woman as a less cognitive version of a man. Its how SHE views YOU. If this mattered to a guy I think a lot of this would be cleared up.

Its about whether you are trying to gain her approval and respect vs if you are trying to gain her as an object you want.

SaBahRub · 2024-08-19T21:19:28+00:00

We also see the connection between sex and desire

CatchPhraze · 2024-08-20T15:43:01+00:00

We're adults discussing adult themes. This isn't a tiktok. You can use the words sexual abuse and rape.

throwRA-lifeadvice · 2024-08-20T20:26:29+00:00

There is a HUGE, like WORLD'S APART, difference in pursuit and rape.

Ignoring consent or continuing with clearly expressed unwanted physical/sexual acts has absolutely nothing to do with pursuing someone. Just like rape isn't a byproduct of confusion regarding pursuit; in all actuality rape is about control, not sex.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-08-19T21:33:33+00:00

You’ve described the conservative “values” promoted by FDS and TRP. If you wanna play those games, play them.

But that means OLD is gonna be a minefield because a man who is bad at reading cues is surely going to fuck up and push a progressive women too far.

toasterchild · 2024-08-19T21:39:43+00:00

Women definitely pursue when they really want to, they just don't have the drive for it like men typically do. Nobody is forcing you to pursue, just do it if you want to do it. Even the women who think it's a man's job or whatnot aren't forcing men to do it. Being more passive about dating doesn't mean you should be raped or justify rape. Men have been twisting things to make rape women's fault since the beginning of time. This is just like bitching about short skirts "i wouldn't have raped her if she had just pursued me instead of MAKING ME pursue her. WTF is that bullshit. The vast majority of men have no issue expressing sexual interest without raping anyone.

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uglysaladisugly · 2024-08-22T09:37:23+00:00

I see the connection and a lot of feminist wrote about it these last 30 years.

Mentathiel · 2024-08-20T18:18:04+00:00

Who denies this?

Title	Do you really not see the connection between the desire to be pursued and Grape Culture?
Author	LaloTwinsDa2nd
Upvotes	0
Comments	152
Date	August 19, 2024 8:57 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ewcyqz/do_you_really_not_see_the_connection_between_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-really-not-see-the-connection-between-the.1527739 https://theredarchive.com/post/1527739

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