Does sex equal attraction?

asshole67throw · 2022-06-21T23:33:30+00:00

Bullshit tbh. If A didn’t turn in to a relationship she would likely get bored.

If B had potential and was better looking that A, he would take priority.

I don’t think she withholds sex I think it correlates with attraction.

Bunny_and_chickens · 2022-06-21T23:51:14+00:00

but she doesn't feel a connection with Mark, despite being attracted to him.

Jenny feels a connection with him. She goes out on a few casual dates with Dylan and decides she like him, but she doesn't have sex with him, she doesn't want to rush things.

Your made-up "connection" notion was intended to be a "gotcha!" You deploy it like it means something. It's just bullshit. If Jenny is fucking Mark, she finds him more attractive than Dylan. It's not a utilitarian or practical argument. It's just reality.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-06-21T23:53:44+00:00

If a girl is talking to me while fucking someone else on the side, I'm out because that's disrespectful as fuck. It's not even about attraction, it's about respect.

Admirable_Bass8867 · 2022-06-22T01:19:19+00:00

I believe sex is a consequence of attraction in most cases. Sometimes sex can happen out of desperation or for lack of a better option, so sex doesn't always equal attraction.

In this particular case seems that Jenny had an instant connect and was attracted to Mark, and thre was some level of desperation involved as well. So that once her immediate sexual needs are taken care of, she could search for a man who isn't in it for the sex and has the qualities she desires. Her attraction to Dylan to longer to develop but was of the lasting kind.

I have to say though that if I were Dylan and knew someone was getting sex from my partner/potential partner while I have to wait for months, I'd be pissed and would break it off in an instant. That's a clear sign of disrespect.

2022-06-21T23:53:49+00:00

Same question again? Has it been a week already?

Weird_Stick_2962 · 2022-06-22T00:03:15+00:00

All this stuff trying to read the woman's mind is speculation and theory. In real life you never know. How she treats you matters more. If I was Dylan, I would feel disrespected and break up with her.

If you claim that's not consistent with how she truly feels, that Dylan was more important to her, she should reconsider her actions and their effect on others.

techr0nin · 2022-06-22T01:16:04+00:00

Let’s say Jenny is the CEO of a company. She interviews Mark, thinks that he is adequately competent but likely won’t stay in his position very long, so she hires him as a contract worker and pays him an annualized 100k a year. Then she interviews Dylan, who is equally competent and is very enthusiastic about the company and would love to stick around and build it up. So she decides to pay him 60k a year, and sets up a series of elaborate performance targets that if he hits would allow him to make up to 100k a year.

What did we learn from this example? We learned that Jenny is a terrible CEO and has no idea how to properly align the incentive structures or dole out resources. We also learned that Dylan better not ever find out what Mark is/was making, because the disrespect alone would drive him to jump ship. We also learned that you get paid the minimum of what you are willing to accept. But really, the ultimate lesson here is that it is better to be the one that builds the company and therefore is in the position to hire people.

bison5595 · 2022-06-22T00:37:39+00:00

If a girl has sex with you, she is attracted to you

CosmicBioHazard · 2022-06-21T23:16:40+00:00

From my experience? Whether it’s a relationship or something casual she’s after, a woman who’s even passingly attracted to a man will push him for sex before even he’s ready.

If the guy is the more eager of the two, she’s just not into him.

SwaySh0t · 2022-06-22T00:01:26+00:00

Outside of a few possible outliers in her past Jenny finds mark more attractive. She’s breaking rules for mark and making rules for Dylan. If you’re an attractive enough guy she won’t wait to be intimate in fear that another women will scoop you up.

Edit. added from another comment I made: —The key take away here is that SHE PROPOSED FWB with Mark but has Dylan propose exclusivity to her. If she really wanted Dylan she wouldn’t have waited for him to propose commitment to her.

2022-06-22T00:56:52+00:00

What even are these weird hypotheticals with names and everything

toasterchild · 2022-06-22T13:10:39+00:00

I don't think that how fast she has sex has anything to do with how much she likes either of them. It's easier to have a sex only relationship with someone you don't care about because it won't hurt if they leave you.

However, that is totally different from the issue that she was still banging the other one while seeing the one she supposedly liked. I dislike when people play games so they can say "well technically we weren't official so it was ok." No, you should have told the new guy about your situation to see if he was ok with it, give him the option to nope out of that shit instead of waiting months for him to get attached first. I don't date people who are going to continue actively seeing someone on the side.

2022-06-22T01:00:48+00:00

Theory: If you're trying to sell the cow, don't give away the milk for free.

Corollary: if you don't give a shit about selling the cow, give away as much milk as you like.

Anyway it's all bullshit, Jenny would be better off filtering out men who are sexually incompatible/would judge her for having sex too early, but you can't terrify women about the theory and expect them to be unaffected by it, or unable to realize the obvious corollary.

I also don't believe this happens nearly as often or to the extent that y'all seem to think. I've literally never known anyone who dated like this. I believe it happens, but it's prob more like first date vs third date, not months and months.

Also it's very weird that you all cast women as low-sex drive manipulators and then can't imagine us making sexual decisions based on strategy rather than pure attraction. Notable that your short fiction leaves out any detail on Jenny's sex life with Dylan once it gets started.

So no, it's not safe to say at all, also stop getting mad about stories you made up in your head.

Glad-Improvement-812 · 2022-06-22T11:30:25+00:00

She’s more attracted to Dylan. Mark is nothing, just a living dildo, and a mental distraction during time not spent with Dylan (so as not to overwhelm him with her presence), and a reminder that she’s still attractive if Dylan rejects her. With Dylan, she sees husband material. She wants him to see that she’s of value, so she has to play the Madonna to him. She wants him to invest in her, not because she’s trying to get a meal ticket, but because people care more about things they invest in. She doesn’t bring up exclusivity, because that would show her keenness, and potentially put Dylan off. But she desperately wants Dylan to bring it up so she can give Mark the flick and start fucking Dylan whom she really, really wants. This is how the game works. Women don’t fuck the men they really desire in case they scare them off. Women want men they really desire to spend money on them so that there is a perceived sunk cost.

LarryLooxmax · 2022-06-22T00:03:14+00:00

Who cares who she likes more? She clearly doesn't respect either very much because she is fucking them both at the same time.

If I'm with someone they better be all in about me, or I want nothing from them. To accept less is to demean yourself.

Modernity is all about the embrace of the absurd. Men can be women. Men can get pregnant. Women can fuck two men, or even a gaggle of men, and thats somehow tolerable. We force our brains to inhabit a weird space where it can hold these insane ideas and then people wonder about the mental health crisis. None of your ancestors would've had so little self respect.

wtknight · 2022-06-22T00:18:56+00:00

She goes out on a few casual dates with Dylan and decides she like him, but she doesn't have sex with him, she doesn't want to rush things.

Why would she not want to rush things if she is willing to rush things with another man?

What if Dylan wants to have sex with Jenny quickly? Let's say that Dylan has options and there is another woman out there that Jenny knows wants to have sex with Dylan. Wouldn't she be worried that this woman would steal Dylan away from her if she doesn't have sex with him soon? So I ask, if she likes him enough, then why wouldn't she be willing to have sex with him quickly, if the alternative is that she ends up not having a relationship with a guy who she is really into, unlike Mark?

So to answer your question, if she is willing to then have Dylan in my hypothetical scenario, she is more attracted to him. If she is not willing, then she is not as attracted.

DreysunTheOne · 2022-06-22T00:24:13+00:00

I don't know anybody that waits months to have sex lol. Like I don't think this Is true.

Time_Animaal · 2022-06-22T04:32:20+00:00

For women, yes (excepting dutifully in marriage/relationships or hookers I guess), for men usually but what it only really means is pussy.

2022-06-22T12:40:10+00:00

In your scenario Jenny really like Mark but is unable to secure commitment from him. Her fall back plan Dylan proposes commitment and she makes him wait a further 2 months. Mark was her #1 choice.

None0fYour8usiness · 2022-06-22T14:26:05+00:00

Yup. Pretty much. If Dylan was hotter she'd treat him the same as Mark AND form a connection on top.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-06-22T14:52:10+00:00

We can debate until the sun burns out who Jenny was more attracted to.

But I can tell you who I would rather be in that scenario...

DreysunTheOne · 2022-06-22T17:58:46+00:00

Reading some of these comments has made my view of dating even lower then it was....

forthetinderelllas · 2022-06-22T23:32:40+00:00

Yes, Jenny was more attracted to Mark than Danny.

Had she been more attracted to Danny, if he pushed for sex, he would have gotten it.

briiiana1122 · 2022-06-22T00:05:12+00:00

You guys love this fantasy and I have yet to come across a woman who does this. But to humour you, in the case someone makes a guy wait that long in a relationship when she clearly doesn’t have an issue with having sex quickly I’d guess she likes the guy and he’s given her reason to believe he would lose respect for her for sleeping with him too fast. It seems like a massive waste of time to arbitrarily make someone wait for months and then start having sex with them.

Weird_Stick_2962 · 2022-06-22T05:38:37+00:00

Jenny likes Dylan and is attracted to him more than Mark.

I’m a woman and I’ve been here. I don’t know about other women but here’s my logic. The more I like a guy, the more I want him to stick around. I won’t want him to think that I sleep around easily since it seems men don’t like that about women. So I’ll wait a bit. Men that I don’t have a connection with or don’t find that attractive matter much less to me. I don’t care if they think I’m easy or I sleep around. I’m just using them to fulfill my sexual needs until I find a guy I actually want to be with.

I am more careful about what I do with a man I find more attractive.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-06-22T02:18:19+00:00

Not having sex right away is more of a vetting thing. Generally if a woman is actually attracted to you she'll want to have sex after going on a couple of dates.

hdksndiisn · 2022-06-22T02:36:24+00:00

In reality, sex is almost always a signifier of attraction - even if that attraction only occurred in the moments leading up to sex, ie a drunken hook up. I feel like OP content isn’t about attraction as much as it’s about values, and what values are placed on casual vs relationship sex. Because [attractive] women can get sex so easily it is likely less meaningful to them than sex is for [most] men who don’t get sex with the same ease. In reality, sex is equally meaningful & meaningless for both genders, being either/or depending on the situation. Sex is meaningful if meaning is attached to it, and each person has a different set of values or moral attitudes attached to this, so mileage may vary.

airpork · 2022-06-22T06:01:19+00:00

You have to be attracted in order to like/be in love with someone

You don’t need to be more attracted to have sex or be a f buddy.

I don’t think attraction can be measured by how fast a woman “gives” sex.

I can be in an impulsively good mood and have a one night stand with someone I don’t really like that much. I can also wait and tread carefully before having sex with a potential new partner. It’s not so simple imho.

It’s not like hey I’m sooo attracted to you I can’t wait to tear your clothes off. There’s so many factors emotionally, mentally, physically and as with everything - right time right place.

shortspicedrum · 2022-06-22T02:48:50+00:00

I mean this completely makes sense, it’s tactful. She wants Dylan and making him wait forces them to establish an emotional connection. Men and women fall in love differently and men will often not look to pursue a relationship further after sex. Unfortunately the harsh reality is that waiting is an indication that she is not more or less attractive to him, and as an intelligent female it shows wants the better suited mate as a long term partner. She is more attracted to Dylan in my opinion.

AelfredRex · 2022-06-22T11:29:09+00:00

One guy got dumped and the other became her boyfriend. Why would she be more attracted to the guy she dumped?

DreysunTheOne · 2022-06-22T12:58:52+00:00

I know men don’t think like this, I do not participate in hookup culture so this hasn’t been any issue for me. However, this is how I would on a baseline level think or feel, yet wouldn’t act like this precisely because I know men would perceive it differently. Sex and how soon and consistency is important for men. For women it’s nice and all, but extremely ”low price”. So women don’t get how much it means to men.

So this is just how many women think…

Sex creates bonding and increases it, it is ”higher risk” to have sex with someone you might also have emotions for and like, because sex increases bond and emotions, and emotions intensify how the sex feels. If it doesn’t work it would hurt more. This is ALSO true if someone is more attracted to someone, it might make someone use their self control even more to try to postpone it.
Might also be that she doesn’t want Dylan to get a bad impression of her, to think she is just in it for sex or is promiscious (which she is, for someone else, so it’s essentially lying but she cares about his opinion not Marks). -She wants their first time together to be special.
She finds him special and also wants to see if he likes her enough, if he likes her personality. Is he in it for something more? If she likes someone it would probably hurt more to know Dylan was just in it for sex? Honestly even in long relationships there can be this feeling that a man is strongly objectifying you, and it’s important to know whether a man actually likes your personality.

Having sex casually with Mark while she dates might complicate the issue tbh… that’s disrespectful AF. Let’s ignore it.

I would say this means she has more feelings for Dylan, but not anything about attractiveness. Mark in her eyes is only attractive, not someone she has feelings for. Most likely, or in a very hypothethical situation where this was me I’d argue Dylan is the more attractive to her.

This whole idea that ”if a guy is hot enough she will make exceptions” is false. Someone claimed out of fear women would be intimate quick, and this just once again proves how TRP uses cluster B (bpd) personality traits to built upon it, but even then. Most women don’t work like that and have way better impulse control, and how fast they decide is not whether that wall of impulsivenes goes down but her goals.

Plus, most women wouldn’t prioritise down attractiveness in a relationship really…

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FutureBannedAccount2 · 2022-06-22T00:08:04+00:00

You can be attracted to someone and not want a relationship with them. I’ve had a few fwb who I’m sexually attracted to but on a romantic level we were compatible

roguish_rogue · 2022-06-22T00:37:25+00:00

Yes all my good relationships have started with sex pretty early except one, strong "chemistry" is not a guarantee but it is a prerequisite.

The exception was the mother of my two boys who was a virgin when we met.

Generally speaking if there is not atleast some level of "can't keep our hands off each other" by 2nd or 3rd date(assuming a guy with some confidence obv) then its not worth pursuing except in special circumstances, life is too short, if a woman is actually making you wait then she is not really attracted and maybe looking for Mr Practical, or she is not mentally healthy and/or is playing a dumb game, in either case its not worth it.

Edit: as always exceptions exist, dont eat paint.

2022-06-22T04:55:35+00:00

Sex by itself doesn't equal attraction, but sex IS part of attraction from my POV.

Eventually if a potential relationship doesn't progress to the point where we're sleeping together, I'm gonna dip out.

2022-06-22T09:06:31+00:00

I would annoyed if I found out it was going on before we started dating but whatever. However if I found out she was banging him while in the early parts of dating and still made me wait months?? Oh HELL NO instant break up for me yeah we weren't exclusive but while I had to pay for dates you and him got to have the intimacy for free. I'd feel so emasculated and felt she didn't find me attractive at all and think of AF/BB.

It would be like if you found out your bf while dating made you split the bill on dates, mostly stayed at the house and watched Netflix, went to the movies etc. However at the same time he was seeing a slightly more attractive woman and he is taking out of town to expensive places like theme parks, night clubs, the beach, etc.

When asked why he didn't do any of that for her and made her wait for all of that stuff. He says "I just wanted to make sure you weren't just with me for money. I just wanted to wait and make sure you weren't a gold digger but I was more interested in long term fun with you! I knew she was a gold digger and we weren't gonna date with I just had fun with her but it was all just fun it doesn't matter!!" I'm sure that would feel super insulting and like he didn't care about you at all if he is doing for other ppl what he wouldn't do for you.

hari_hbp · 2022-06-22T09:53:40+00:00

Ah yes, the never ending "waiting for sex" debate.

My question is that what if Dylan asked her on the second date about this. Like say, "Are you dating other people? I date only one person and don't sleep with other people during that. I just want somebody who shares the same values." I wonder whether this will just scare off women or this is too creepy or something.

2022-06-22T12:36:25+00:00

No, sex does not equal attraction. Both men and women will fuck people who they are not attracted to.

redback-spider · 2022-06-22T15:08:47+00:00

I think the assumption is wrong, well the only way this could be a serious question would be if the women is a run through with a very high body count, otherwise her sleeping with Mark would make her getting feelings (other than hornyness).

It's nearly a biology question do women release high amounts of oxytocin during sex? Yes, is Oxytocin a binding and love hormone, yes...

I go so far that even if the women would sleep with a guy because of some duty or whatever, assuming the guy get's her to orgasm, that is a small qualifier, she will fall in love with him.

There are some other factors for women like they can smell genetic compatibility, but if she would be interest in sex with Mark he obviously is compatible as far as women can detect that.

So if Mark gets her to orgasm and her body count is not very high, she will have strong feelings for him.

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-06-22T15:32:48+00:00

Not even close. A guy has to be attractive for me to want to fuck him. Whether I actually do has very little to do with him at all.

Snivelingincel · 2022-06-22T16:11:01+00:00

Women who find a guy attractive and like sex don’t make him wait. All the girls I’ve met who later wanted relationships all had sex with me very quickly. The notion that women make attractive men wait is not true, in the real world hookup culture it’s sex-> gradual emotional attachment -> relationship.

hearyoume14 · 2022-06-22T17:50:15+00:00

There seems to be this need to to make relationships more deep than they are while trying to hold to causal standards.

Causally dating multiple people at one time seems pretty normal. Whether both parties agree to it and have the same options is another matter but dating isn’t fair.Granted I’m used to a dating culture where causal dating is common, but sex isn’t on the table,and both partners drop any others when they go exclusive. From what family has said going out with multiple guys at a time then deciding to go steady was the norm for decades.

Barely-moral · 2022-06-22T18:36:37+00:00

Since I am not a mind reader the only difference between a and b is that one man got a better treatment because he got sex earlier in the timeline.

how fast a woman has sex with you is a big indicator on how much a woman really likes you.

If she waited less for someone else, it is safe to assume she was more attracted to that someone. So I am not willing to wait more than that someone. If she lies about it and I find out that I waited more than someone else the relationship is over.

So, in this example, is it safe to say that Jenny was more attracted to Mark than Dylan?

Yes. She was attracted to mark to the point that he did not need to prove anything else nor do anything else to have sex. Dylan had to provide exclusivity before getting sex. So he is not attractive enough to get the same results than Mark gets without bringing exclusivity to the table.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-06-22T18:56:18+00:00

Anything is possible in these kinds of scenarios. So it’s silly to make absolutes, because people are different, and no one is always consistent. In this case, Jenny is clearly more into Dylan. Yes, she’s making him wait, but when women know that men sometimes dismiss women for sleeping when them too soon, it’s understandable. She doesn’t care if Mark thinks she’s slutty because she’s not trying to get into a relationship with him. Now is this a good strategy? Maybe, maybe not. But she thinks it is, and it’s really a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation. She wants Dylan to take her seriously, and is afraid he won’t if she has sex too soon.

But the REAL issue here imo is that it’s very unlikely Jenny would actually do any of this. Women rarely are the ones to suggest FWB, they get tricked into it or it just sort of happens organically. Even less likely she’s going to keep up the FWB situation after meeting someone she’s genuinely interested in. That’s the crux of the matter and why I think these sorts of hypotheticals where women supposedly make “marriage material” wait while they fuck other guys on the side, are rather silly.

2022-06-22T20:29:59+00:00

Holy fuck, this scenario has happened to me so many times if feels disheartening, countless women do this now a days and it fucks with your head so much because of all the pain men feel over parental security

Woolly_mammoth_ · 2022-06-22T21:26:43+00:00

in this example, is it safe to say that Jenny was more attracted to Mark than Dylan?

Yes.

NecktieNietzsche · 2022-06-23T14:30:47+00:00

It's not that guys don't want to wait, it's that they don't want to wait if other guys didn't have to, because it feels like they're a fucking chump.

Title	Does sex equal attraction?
Author	theorangesmile
Upvotes	21
Comments	323
Date	June 21, 2022 11:08 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vhqad1/does_sex_equal_attraction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-sex-equal-attraction.1120523 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120523

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