Hold up...isnt EVERYONE Hypergamous?

Think4Yoself · 2021-02-10T05:31:44+00:00

Hypergamy means marrying up the social hierarchy. People confuse status within the social hierarchy with status within the sexual marketplace. They are not the same thing. In the case of men, their status in the social hierarchy plays an important role in determining their SMV, but the same is not true of women. A woman's SMV is not very related to her position in the social hierarchy. In fact, most of the women with the highest positions within the social hierarchy in the United States are there because of who the married. Melinda Gates, Michelle Obama, and Hillary Clinton are all examples of this. They are plenty competent in their own right, but their opportunities are almost solely attributed to who they married. Even Beyonce, who achieved a very high status on her own, married Jay Z, one of the few men with status equal or higher than hers.

Hypergamy means that college educated, white collar women eliminate construction workers as possible spouses, while college educated, white collar men, don't eliminate secretaries.

wtknight · 2021-02-10T00:44:21+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-10T00:39:54+00:00

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Special-Armadillo-99 · 2021-02-10T00:40:47+00:00

The problem is there is no best. That's the issue men have with hypergamy. They were fine with it, if women chose once and stick with it. In the 1950s nobody was mad about it.

It wasn't till no fault divorce that it became an issue. Now they just continually monkey branching from one branch to the next seemingly better branch.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-10T00:55:16+00:00

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wtknight · 2021-02-10T05:41:43+00:00

Girls and guys want to date someone similar or better than themselves.

Hypergamy as defined by TRP is about sexual attraction, not dating. Women are only sexually attracted to men who they perceive better than them in some way (although what the definition of "better" is is debatable). Men, on the other hand, can be sexually attracted to women completely inferior to them in every way. Men do try to optimize when it comes to relationships, though, as you state.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-10T00:32:34+00:00

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IcarusKiki · 2021-02-10T01:35:15+00:00

Hypergamy doesn’t really have a set definition on PPD. My personal definition is that it means women tend to sleep with only the best men she can get, while men are less picky and will fuck most women if given the chance. It’s not a bad thing just how we’re wired

gxga · 2021-02-10T05:49:54+00:00

Online, you're supposed to behave like a woman who does something to benefit herself and her progeny is the dark bowels of evil.

Then you go over to the male subs to engage in lessons of how to attract women who are younger and far more attractive than yourself.

You frame this as natural and inherently good. You get to frame your lust and adoration as "true and virtuous love" where she didn't have to "do anything". (and by she doesn't have to do anything, we mean be born attractive and be sexually available for his use since anything else a woman does to create value doesn't mean much to these guys)

Then you mosey back to where the women are, let them know they expire like milk in their thirties so they better lower their standards bc hypergamy is evil, wanting a man who can provide for progeny he himself cannot birth is evil, women bad women bad.

For shits and giggles, you can go to a woman who is the same age as the male speaker, has a feminine body he wants, makes the same money or more, is the race or skin tone he likes, dates the same rate he does, wastes the same free time he does

Then have her say she wants the equivalent of herself. Stand back to witness tops blown off and screams of "HIGH STANDARDS", thousands of upvotes berating such a woman, and everyone just accepting this as normal.

TL;DR

But it doesnt feel like a female only thing.

It isn't. This is just what wearing male Redditor skins gets you in this simulation. That and oodles of upvotes for the blatant hypocrisy.

geyejoe7 · 2021-02-10T12:40:51+00:00

The "hypergamous" thing is funny to me. Obviously everyone wants the best quality partner possible.

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-02-10T16:11:57+00:00

Basically what u/IcarusKiki said. No one can agree on the definition of Hypergamous because PPD just bullshits it instead of actually using the official definition.

octocombo · 2021-02-10T01:19:27+00:00

The manosphere attributes hypergamy to women because they're focused on casual sex. In LTRs hypergamy isn't particularly a gendered thing (as you've said, most people regardless of gender want the best they can get) but for casual sex there are a lot more men in the market than women, so "the best you can get" is usually matching up for women and matching down for men.

Also some of them define hypergamy by absolute wealth or height which is kinda stupid because the average man is taller and has a higher income than the average woman. So they would define a pair that's matched in terms of within-gender percentiles as hypergamous because the woman is shorter and makes less money.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-02-10T06:27:20+00:00

Upgrading is free for women.

Upgrading is very expensive for men.

There is your difference.

daproest1 · 2021-02-10T03:00:16+00:00

Not this shit again. No. Women date across and up dominance hierarchies (hypergamy). Men date across and down dominance hierarchies.

The innate male mating strategy is unlimited access to unlimited mating.

The innate female mating strategy is mating with the BEST POSSIBLE MATE.

vvvqvvv · 2021-02-10T03:02:09+00:00

Men are absolutely hypergamous, given that hypergamy means branching swinging or trading up, not the loose definition thrown around here to describe whatever aspect they hate about women.

If a man is dating a nice but meh looking girl, but suddenly has a very possible option to date an even better and hotter girl, he's going to turn that down because he's holier than women and not hypergamous? Fuck no.

What about all the men who finally became successful and then turned around to dump their ride or die gfs/wives in favor of young easy pussy?

Here's the truth. Men are just mad they don't have the opportunity to exercise their hypergamy as much as women do. They're hypergamous but because they can't do shit about it they turn around and spout a holier than thou spiel.

Jake-Mueller · 2021-02-10T06:19:46+00:00

If societies had been traditionally matriarchal, then more men than women would've engaged in hypergamy. Currently, it's the other way around. Even most feminists tend to look for husbands who make a lot more than they do. Self-interest always trumps values. Always has, always will.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-02-10T14:25:46+00:00

No. Only women are hypergamous.

I don't understand why this has to keep being discussed. Hypergamy is a term of art in red pill parlance. It means "am attracted only to those who are above me in SMV". The only people who are "attracted only to those above" them are women. It's a feature unique to women, and it's designed to help them when it's harnessed early on.

Women are attracted to men above their SMV. They will accept men at their SMV only if that SMV counterpart man goes all in with commitment. Women will never accept men below their SMV for anything.

Men can be and are attracted to women above, at, and below their own SMV. Therefore, men are NOT hypergamous. Men certainly optimize. They go for the best they can, like women. But optimization is not hypergamy. The two are different phenomena taking place for different reasons in different humans viewing the same SMP differently for different purposes.

Before everyone starts downvoting - this is not a bad thing. This is a feature, not a bug. A woman should be this way so she can lock down the best man she can leveraging her looks, youth, and fertility. The problem happens when she isn't satisfied with that "best man she could get" and her hypergamy starts setting off alarms.

Men are not hypergamous. Only women are hypergamous.

SnowHatesWome · 2021-02-10T15:15:00+00:00

I feel like men naturally harem while women branch swing

Workaholiconew · 2021-02-10T22:26:17+00:00

Depends on your definition. Hypergamy, in the red pill is an impulse to always try to get the "best and only the best".

Men usually lack this impulse, thus, are more interested in the concepts of "enough", or more precisely "the cost/risk efficient". thus we mostly also change partners, but usually when they get to a net negative in cost/risk efficiency. usually for sexual reasons (sex is a need for us, one you can empathize as much as we can with hypergamy, not very well)

You will rarely see a man looking for "the best and only the best" unless there is some reason it like using that thing to acquire women (who are indeed hypergamous), or he is so rich it does not affect him much (i.e. infinitesimal cost/risk). All in all, it is a instinct you have strongly, and we have extremely weakly.

That is why things usually "for men" are usually so cheap. We will in no way accept paying a premium unless there is a objective net benefit accompanied to that.

I mean, yeah, there probably is some hypergamous men out there, but those are rare, and extremely dangerous to deal with. We prefer to avoid making irrational decisions if we can, and only follow our instincts under the watch of reason. There are very few men who did not learn the harsh lesson that irrationality usually leads to counterproductive behavior.

Unteryn · 2021-02-10T23:50:36+00:00

I can never relate to women dating up. I don't want a superior. I would be put off by a neurosurgeon or a lawyer. I don't want to be in the shadow of someone doing better than me.

But I'm not much of a commitment or marriage person so it's immaterial...

midwesternMD · 2021-02-11T01:21:09+00:00

It’s functionally more of a female thing because women (generally) have the abundance of choice as to which man they will be receptive to.

Look, I’m a highly educated, reasonably fit, dynamic, and sociable man with a great career. Of course I’d like to date an educated, reasonably fit, dynamic, and sociable woman with a career of her own. But the reality is that I’d settle for a woman who I find attractive and has enough qualities that I could see myself starting a family with her. I don’t need the most popular girl, or the one with the biggest tits (though boobs are my weakness), etc. Hell, I don’t even care about whether she’s got an advanced degree and a high earning potential- I’ve got that covered.

For all that I bring to the table, however, my impression (and experience) on dating apps is that it’s not enough. It’s fine if the women here don’t view me as enough of a catch- I’m still fairly mobile. But it strikes me as odd that someone like me would be struggling to match with women, relatively speaking.

2021-02-10T02:15:26+00:00

Saying no to someone who could improve our lives a lot compared to our current person really produces a lot of subconscious regrets, especially when our current partner is on the decline or stagnant/complacent, and just "gave up".

First of all this is an appeal to emotion.

Second of all hypergamy means an unwillingness to settle below your standards of attraction. The very fact you as a man recognize you chose someone low and want to move higher is by virtue not hypergamous. If you were hypergamous, you would not choose someone you deem to not offer much to you in life.

For a man, there's a range of women that can sexually satisfy him. With women, it's like an exponential curve. The better the man the better the satisfaction. Hence women are less willing to settle lower.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-02-10T01:51:09+00:00

Not exactly?

When women upgrade from men, it's usually just to better and better men (in the context of status, money and masculinity). When men upgrade from women, it's usually just from less shittier and less shittier women. That can mean that men get better-looking women, sure, but that isn't what "hypergamy" is because men don't care about women's status and money. Men usually leave women because of them growing increasingly naggy, bitchy, needy, or less attractive, while women usually leave men if they're becoming weaker, less successful, less manly, etc.

yeet20feet · 2021-02-10T02:36:47+00:00

most people are not hypergamous. however more women are hypergamous than men. the women that do practice hypergamy will only put out for the most attractive looking man.

let’s say there are 100 people. 50 women 50 men. 20 women will all fuck the 1 most attractive man out of the 50 men, leaving 49 men with only 30 women left. that’s a bit closer to the reality of things.

the reason men can’t do this... it’s pretty obvious lol women objectively hold more sexual power than men it’s pretty undeniable

the most important thing to take from this though is knowing that women can literally do whatever they want, it’s up to men to just not care

Bandit174 · 2021-02-10T00:36:23+00:00

Yes, but not to the same extent or in the same categories.

Generally it is meant to refer to marrying someone of a high educational/financial bracket than themselves and by that definition women are definitely more hypergamous than men.

That doesn't mean men have zero standards on wealth/education they just aren't as strict and don't mind as much if their partner earns less or is less educated.

Even with looks women seem to have sticter criteria on what makes a guy sexually viable than men do for women.

geometersbane · 2021-02-10T00:59:19+00:00

guys want to date someone better than themselves

What does this even look like? I can't even begin to picture it since I have never seen this ever.

chlor0phil · 2021-02-10T01:58:43+00:00

What's the "breakup side of reddit"... is it here, are we there yet?

Anyway fair point, no one intentionally dates/marries down unless they're already truly desperate. Ideally we should all find someone on our level to be equal partners with, but in practice sometimes that feels like settling.

But I'd say women are hypergamous to a much greater degree and that's why redpill constantly gives them hell for it.

Also there's the idea that women reject equals to hold out for men who eclipse them in some way (usually more to do with social status than looks), and this has continued as women's income, status, and general QoL has mostly caught up with men's at least in most Western cultured nations. So that's causing a somethings-gotta-give level of tension among single people

Jake-Mueller · 2021-02-10T06:24:26+00:00

John Kerry married the heiress of the Heinz empire. Of course men also engage in hypergamy, but it's rare.

Every college girl who uses dating apps dates men with already established careers, and that's actually got nothing to do with them being more 'mature'. But have you a seen even one college going guy dating a woman with an already established career?

RIFKIN_666 · 2021-02-10T07:03:47+00:00

Idk

what is male hypergamy ?

I think alot men stay with a women they love just out of love often enough. I dont think men leave their women when they come across what may be a better option ,we just might fuck her but I think that's it usually

WilliamWyattD · 2021-02-10T09:13:22+00:00

You are right that in basic biology and anthropology, 'hypergamy' simply means to marry/mate upwards in social status, which is almost universal across cultures.

TRP (and others) justifiably posit that while this phenomenon may have originated in basic biological differences surrounding pregnancy, inferior size, and related vulnerabilities, it is likely that psychological traits in women have evolved to support the behavior. And observation seems to support this. Thus, even if the original factors that drove hypergamy are removed (economic and security needs), the later evolved psychological factors will continue to drive the behavior.

It is true that there is no TRP Bible. There can be disagreement about the exact features of hypergamy. There is a general consensus about the fact that women feel a level of raw sexual attraction to male competence and ability that is not symmetrical with male attraction to women.

Anyone with any observational skills knows that some type of hypergamy is real: men and women are not attracted to the same traits in each other. Women do care, in a primal way, about male ability and status in a way that men don't care about the same in women. This is hypergamy: the details, like all details in sociology and psychology, remain up for debate and investigation. Hypergamy is female nature, which isn't necessarily bad or good: it just is.

So the mature thing for women to do is accept the term and contribute thoughtfully to our understanding of it with their own honest insights. I'm sure there is a lot to learn. Denying it outright, or trying to obfuscate it by suggesting it applies equally to men, doesn't help anyone learn anything. Men have their own psychological mechanisms that should also be investigated; but with its own terminology--not hypergamy--because male behavior in this area is not the same as female, though it may seem superficially symmetrical in some aspect or another.

DarthCach · 2021-02-10T00:22:11+00:00

NO, just women.

taapy234 · 2021-02-10T02:09:29+00:00

No. Not everyone. You are doing that false equivalence thing that bloops typically LOVE to do. Typically to hide the unflattering nature of female sexuality in hopes that screaming "BOTH sides do it!!" will somehow dampen the uncomfortable truth.

Men and women have different sexual imperative. Men are far more lenient when it comes to SMV.

But for women, they will only give sexual access to men ABOVE them, and ONLY to men their equals when all their hypergamous routes have been fully replenished. After that, they then force themselves into choosing men they don't like sexually for his financial resources. This is what we mean when we say Alpha FUCKS, beta BUCKS.

AF/BB is basically a socially accepted form of prostitution by my book really. I would rather pay for sex than be a beta bitch to some woman "who's sick and tired of playing games with fuckboys and wants a gentleman who treats her well"

Just like how men control their sexual impulses, women should control their hypergamous instincts too, but unfortunately, in today's feminist influenced west, unrestrained hypergamy is literally how women function in day to day life.

Nephilim8 · 2021-02-10T02:19:21+00:00

In my opinion, saying someone is hypergamous is like saying someone is greedy. It exists on a continuum. At low levels, it's not a problem, and I wouldn't even call them "greedy". At high levels, it's a problem. You could say the same thing about greed: everyone is greedy - i.e. everyone wants more money. If you define greed that way, then yeah, virtually everyone is greedy. The thing is - whether someone's "greed" is a problem depends on things like "are they happy with what they have, or are they extremely dissatisfied with what they have? Are they willing at act badly to other people to get more money? Would they be willing to swindle someone out of their life savings?"

For that reason, I wouldn't call someone who simply wants more money as "greedy", even though they fit the definition we mentioned earlier. It's the same with hypergamy.

passepar2t · 2021-02-10T09:56:05+00:00

Men are not hypergamous, men are polygamous. It's not "either her or her." It's "both, possibly at the same time."

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-02-10T00:30:27+00:00

No because women fuck and marry up. It’s women’s sexuality that makes it like that .

Iluvalmonds83 · 2021-02-10T12:50:41+00:00

I believe everyone is hypergamous, but those desires are rooted from the differing biological imperatives of the genders to ensure successful sexual strategy on either end.

Lizard brain in Women pushes for her to choose the very best genetics(looks, height, health) as well as secure that partner as a protector and provider for her and their offspring since childbirth and rearing leaves her vulnerable. Paternal confusion is also a tactic she might use to ensure someone protects and provides for her, even if it’s not the daddy.

Men have that imperative to spread their seed far and wide to as many uteruses as possible to keep their progeny going, and get most competitive to impregnate the best reproductive partner they can get (young/pubescent, virginal, healthy, has those “child bearing hips”). Sticking around to play protector and provider, especially after offspring survive their most vulnerable life stages (infant to young child) is not in their best interests because it inhibits their ability to impregnate a variety of available uteruses.

Davidfosford · 2021-02-10T12:57:40+00:00

men are opportunistic women are Hypergamous

NoPidgeonChess · 2021-02-10T09:44:13+00:00

This is Some shitty clickbait title.

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Physiologist21 · 2021-02-10T23:59:36+00:00

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-02-11T22:34:22+00:00

It depends on your definition of “hypergamous.” If you mean by physical attractiveness, men are generally more hypergamous. If you mean wealth and social status, women are generally more hypergamous. Since nobody ever seems to be able to agree on what it means, I find the term somewhat irritating. It’s kind of obvious that everyone wants the best they can get, but what exactly “best” means for an individual depends on their gender and preferences. Most women aren’t jumping at the chance to date a broke guy with no career, but many do anyway. Likewise, not all men get the beautiful woman. There are set patterns, but humans are complex.

DXBrigade · 2021-02-12T00:28:57+00:00

From what I've seen people in their own league.

Title	Hold up...isnt EVERYONE Hypergamous?
Author	Gaddammitkyle
Upvotes	51
Comments	181
Date	February 10, 2021 12:20 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lghhl5/hold_upisnt_everyone_hypergamous/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/hold-upisnt-everyone-hypergamous.1192458 https://theredarchive.com/post/1192458

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