N COUNTS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD

AutoModerator · 2025-10-25T16:00:32+00:00

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[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rule_Number_7No Pill Woman [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk4 points 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb [score hidden] 9 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man [score hidden] 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mobjack5 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi5 points 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Old_cress3828No pill FEMALE 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Old_cress38282 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ViolentShallot1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Old_cress3828No pill FEMALE [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb [score hidden] 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Old_cress3828No pill FEMALE 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Old_cress3828No pill FEMALE 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]fiftypoundpuppy3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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except theyre not upset at “their crush fucking other people”, theyre upset a girl fucked other people before meeting them

It doesn't change anything at all, even if it happened in the past, especially if it's recent (there's a difference between events that happened a month ago and 10 years ago).

Even those who supposedly don't have problems with N-counts and so on, for some reason, still don't often want to delve into their partner's past, and they also don't like talking about it, especially in detail.

thats irrational if you have a high n count too.

I'll only agree with this, because I find it strange myself why those with high n-counts don't want anything to do with the same people.

But experience has it, even they might not like the idea of someone having sex with their loved one, even in the past. And that's normal.

[–]No-Comfort12292 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]gtbreddit11 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy5 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

how applicable is hookes law to the prognosis for a tendon injury? very minimal?

what scientist would assume diameter is the only variable in how childbirth effects the vagina? people themselves are a variable. testing the same drug, same procedure, same therapy technique in tens of thousands of people is kinda how we learn stuff. dont think youve ever done any life sciences.

i bring up childbirth because that is something with lots of data. if there is no data around penis size causing any permanent changes (which in and of itself should be a tell as to where the burden of proof lies considering how much sex occurs) and you want to understand if and how it could occur, using the thing that has a lot of data makes sense as a basis. if there is some remote possibility penises could cause permanent changes when childbirth doesnt always in the most edge cases, the likelihood of that occurring would have more to do with frequency than n.

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (28 children) | Copy Link

Women there's something you desperately need to realise:

Men WANT sex. Men really want sex. If a guy likes you and is attracted to you, he will want to fuck you.

But if you give him that sex right away, then he will lose respect for you. He will lose interest. He will have gotten what he wants early on and it will feel empty, he won't want to pursue you.

So yes there is a paradox in that men desperately want to have sex with you but having that sex with you will make them lose interest in you.

What is the solution? Play hard to get. Make them work hard to get the sex. Don't fall into their arms easily. Make them chase you. Make them obsess over you. Make them question if you like them back or not. If they want you, they will work hard to pursue you and chase you.

And only at the very end, once you've got them nailed down, once you have something official in place and you are both on the same page and like each other, thats when you have sex for the first time.

Make it worth the reward. Make it worth the pursuit.

This is not being prude or anti-sex, its just understanding male biology and sexual dynamics.

Men enjoy the chase. Men enjoy the pursuit. Its like, why do men enjoy challenging video games and not easy comforting shit on the lowest difficulty? The challenge makes the reward more valuable.

I will get trashed and called a sexist and incel for saying this, but I am giving you free advice, from a male perspective, on how to pin down a man.

[–]Pro-IDGAFgenX Pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN [score hidden] 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man [score hidden] 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kidChad 38yo (Man) | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Past-Shoulder-631No Pill man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KapoueBlue Pill Man[🍰] 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]tritter211Pragmatic (iama man btw) 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KapoueBlue Pill Man[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kidChad 38yo (Man) | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kidChad 38yo (Man) | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It’s the average. I’m sure there are religious areas where it’s zero -1 and party campuses where it’s higher

But let’s do some “back of the envelope” math.

Average man gets married at about 28. Average start of sexual activity is now at about 17.5. So let’s say that gives a guy around 10.5 years of time to “get numbers” before that n count (hopefully stops)

Now despite what PPD says, most people usually have sex in LTRs as monogamous couples.

So if we take 10.5 and divide it by the median of 4-7 (which would be 5.5) you get 1.9. So let’s round that up.

That comes out to about 2 relationships a year that develop into a sexual relationship for the average guy before he gets married.

Some more, some less depending (some guys are in relationships longer or meet the right one, some might get a coupe ONS or casual “got lucky” moments).

But in average at least 2 new sexual partners a year on average till dudes settle down.

It’s not actually that unrealistic for “they average” when you think about it. Of course the above and below are going to have very different experiences

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphon1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-69911 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-69911 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]salphon4 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74237 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_Council1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn’t just say they are bullshit: it laid it out: let’s see it again!

And it’s because the dude plagiarized it:

“EXPOSED: Rollo Tomassi is the godfather of nothing, stole all his work on a forum repeating the academic work of David M Buss. Myron's loyalty to him will be his undoing.

After the worst take in history where self-proclaimed Mr 'redpilled godfather' told young men the quickest way to success involved having surgery to your male reproductive organ (which in some cases, will be IRREVERSIBLE) it's a good time to remind people that Rollo is a complete hack and grifter.

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING he says was plagiarised, written and outlined DECADES before Rollo ever stole the points from an online forum and put it in a book.

For those who don't know, all of RP theory really comes from David M. Buss, a world-renowned evolutionary psychologist professor from the University of Texas, Austin.

In 1993, yes THIRTY YEARS AGO he published a peer-reviewed paper on human dating strategies titled "Sexual Strategies Theory: An Evolutionary Perspective on Human Mating" which is the basis for outlining all the realities of male and female dating behaviour from biology and evolution, which has since been repackaged as "red-pilled". You can read the paper for yourself here.

https://labs.la.utexas.edu/buss/files/2015/09/SexualStrategiesTheory.pdf

If it's too long for you can also read a version which he wrote about human mating strategies outlining again the key points about the evolutionary differences between men and women strategies.

https://labs.la.utexas.edu/buss/files/2015/10/Buss-2002-human-mating-strategies.pdf

Rollo, was some bum on a online forum in the 2000's where they discussed this guys work, before he decided to steal other commentators' work and passed it off as his own in 2013. In fact, I wouldn't haven't known all the guys work was stolen if it wasn't for the fact I read his work in University before RP space ever emerged and thought it sounded very similar before taking a look through the rationale male.

That is why when Rollo comes up with his own original thoughts you get the insane stupidity of telling men to engage in medical procedures instead of using dick discipline including only using a condom. The fact that Myron read his book which stole all this information and has now exalted this clown will be his undoing if he doesn't wise up and realise that anyone with two brain cells can see through the charlatan. A plagiarist whose been married for decades who in his RP rage on some forum realised the truth and then decided to steal this guys work and pass it off as his own. Rollo is FRAUD.”

So go ahead and refute what’s written or the links proving it contained within!”

[–]N_Count_Council2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]TankMurdoc1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EmpressJJNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KapoueBlue Pill Man[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]operation-spotPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Everyone who? If scientists are disputing it, then those studies need to be shown instead of comments about who's funding what. Saying that the source is biased is not an argument. That's a type of the appeal to authority fallacy. If studies are bad - then need to show what's wrong with them.

There are only a few possible reasons. 1) Scientists don't see anything wrong with these studies and didn't feel the need research it. 2) They tried to reproduce/study the same thing and go similar results, which doesn't justify a publication (reviewers/editors reject such papers, people don't even try sending those in). 3) Scientists don't even look at it because nobody cares and there's nobody with the opposite agenda to fund studies for their own propaganda. Now, of course it can't be 3) because we know all too well that the opposite side does exist and does have money and has a lot more influence in science than the conservative side (e.g. studies about race and intelligence are a taboo). I simply included it to have a complete list. So pick one of the remaining options.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, that's definitely not a correct explanation. You are talking about science, not some weird drama queens who think addressing something is beneath them. In science, refuting something is the opposite of giving it credibility. Refuting = making it not credible.

None of social sciences is science to begin with if we want to talk about it philosophically. But the practices are the same in social "sciences" as in actual sciences and they are really trying to pretend it's a science.

Either way, the topic is of interest and there are two opposite agendas with a lot of money on both sides. If only one of them publishes something and the one can't refute it, then you know it's probably irrefutable. Cause you bet they want to refute it and definitely tried. And of course, actual researchers are neutral and don't care who pays them - they will publish the result no matter what it is.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What exposure?

What isn't my thing? Yes, I'm a scientist and one of the course I was required to take was the philosophy of science course. There you learn pretty quickly what criteria of scientific theory is. I referred to them. Look them up. Social sciences aren't sciences in the classical sense. They aren't more sciences than, say, culinary science. It's just an incorrect use of the term that only means that they follow some procedures. Social sciences use scientific method but they aren't science because of what they work with/study. Ohhh, you mean that quote is about you talking about science? I guess that applies then.

Either way, nothing changes. Funding sources are irrelevant. Opposite agenda is funded too, but there are no studies refuting the ones mentioned. It is explained above why that is.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lmao fr it isn't your thing. It just isn't. Many people do make those claims and they aren't even claims. They are facts. Again, see Popper's criteria. I mentioned them multiple comments ago. Why are you still arguing? Just read and learn that you are wrong.

No idea about podcasts or who you are. But it's weird to see someone who can't learn something that was explained multiple times - and even the source was referenced for them to look it up in more detail. Indeed, the teacher shortage is devastating.

And again, nice try to sidetrack, but not only is your side point wrong, but more importantly the original point is wrong. The study is published. Anyone can publish anything against it (and they are strongly incentivized to do so), but it's still there. Just don't talk about science or higher education if all you got is an undergraduate degree. It isn't your thing. It isn't.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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You do seem to care who is downvoting you because you insulted me twice, thinking it was me. So....

I don't care about downvotes, but I think downvoting is a pussy ass move. I never do that.

I've already said, no. Because nobody is studying that.

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/htfg3o/updated_excerpts_relating_promiscuity/

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xqbfyi/not_only_is_past_promiscuity_a_good_predictor_of/

Except religious institutions and those who are jealous of women who have casual sex.

You're doing it again. Religious institutions care about everyone who has casual sex. For some reason, women always want to be the victims. Also, those studies are not from religious institutes. I don't understand where this stupid meme came from. You can check them yourself.

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[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Reasonable_Mouse7892 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dating in low N environments: you possibly meet as friends, know each other for at least a week before having sex, are subject to messing up your friend group if you don’t have good tact or if you don’t read people well, and personality is a major factor (you’ll probably mostly date people who get along with you, or else you wouldn’t be friends with them)

Dating in high N environments: people will want to sleep with you quickly (often 1st or 2nd day they know you), there are no social repercussions at all if you get ghosted, only your looks will get you matches & you’ll probably have to sleep around to find personalities you mesh with, you’ll sometimes dump someone you already had sex with simply because you learn something new about them you don’t want to deal with, and it’s completely fine for either gender to do this (although some progressive spaces would most likely only defend women if they ghost a guy they slept with, and not like it if men do the same thing)

In high N environments, you should 100% assume that the person you’re talking to is likely sleeping with people other than you while still in the talking stages with you (both men and women frequently do this). If you’re not okay with people doing that or lying about it, then you should switch back to low N dating methods.

[–]Kapoue1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse7892 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For example, you talk about there being no consequences to ghosting in your high n count scenario but I guarantee that if you stop talking to your friend/treating them badly after a hookup, the rest of your friend group is going to give you shit.

It’s hard to generalize high N people. Some exes of mine would sleep with me after not talking for several years. Also, some women really do just hand out sex like candy. What you do afterwards may be of genuinely zero concern to them. If they have a lot of friends, then they might not think too much after you’re gone. People move on from friends all the time with no hard feelings.

"sex as commitment" people use OLD apps too

This is where massive gray area comes in. I’m 100% not going to see sex as pure commitment in any scenario of a woman invites me to her place on a 2nd date. I don’t care if she’s nerdy or religious. There isn’t anything we could say to each other that would make it a guarantee we’ll want to see each other next week.

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[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Logos1789Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Logos1789Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]SyrusDrakeMan 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EmpressJJNo Pill 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]operation-spotPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv 9 months ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Old_cress3828No pill FEMALE 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mauf066No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mauf066No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mauf066No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mauf066No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I sense some skepticism. I should note that my experience does not necessarily represent the experience of others. While there are some general trends, people are different and there are a million and one possible scenarios for how things might turn out. This is the greatest flaw in any kind of -pill ideology imo, trying to fit everything into neat little boxes, when the real world is far more messy than that. This realization was key for me and I think it's what allowed me to stop self sabotaging and finally lose my virginity. When I was in my early 20s, I was stuck in rigid red/blackpill thinking along the lines of "I haven't lost my virginity yet, that must mean I'm a pathetic undesirable loser and I should stop trying completely". And there is a subset of women who probably believed this about me. But there's another subset who doesn't care or even finds it an advantage, so I don't have to concern myself with the opinions of the former group.

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mauf066No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

After being in this space for more than a decade (before the word incel was even commonly used), I'd reckon that the cause of 95% of incels' dating problems is their worldview, which causes them to not socialize at all, or to come across very stifled and awkward on the odd occasion they might try. It's hard to overstate just how fundamentally harmful the things they believe are to their mental health (it should be noted it's not their fault and they can't "just" stop thinking that way, but it's not impossible to change either), unless you have experience of having a healthier outlook on life. For example, the constant negative comparisons to "Chad". Chad the way they imagine him doesn't really exist. But to the mind that doesn't really matter, and the part of their brain that makes these comparisons is always there to beat them down as soon as they try to for example strike up a conversation with a girl. It'll go into overdrive, saying things like "You pathetic ugly loser, why do you think you even have a chance with her? Just don't even try and spare yourself the embarrassment.", keeping the guy stuck.

Honestly I could probably write a whole book on this. I'd recommend watching HealthyGamerGG's videos if you haven't already, he explains these topics in more detail really well.

[–]ta06012022Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man [score hidden] 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SyrusDrakeMan 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Downtown_Werewolf_44Disenchanted chad (man) 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Downtown_Werewolf_44Disenchanted chad (man) 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]Downtown_Werewolf_44Disenchanted chad (man) 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Downtown_Werewolf_44Disenchanted chad (man) 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]Downtown_Werewolf_44Disenchanted chad (man) 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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No, double standard is when you apply different standards to the members of the same group. That could mean different sexes IF we are talking about the group where sexes are irrelevant.

For example, employment or student admissions. Employee/student is genderless. If you give advantages to men or women here, then that would be double standards. But it wouldn't be double standards if you had different standards for students and professors because they are different groups. When we are talking about sex-adjacent topics, then of course we need to remember that we are sexually dimorphic species and that men and women aren't the same. They are opposite sexes. They are different sexes. So of course you expect standards to be different (even opposite/complementary sometimes). Double standard in dating/sex would be when you apply different standards to different men or women. For example, if you sleep with some men but not others or sleep with some men fast but make others wait -that would be an example of double standards.

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That is absolutely correct. And the definition you quoted only confirms it, you just need to understand what it means. Clearly you copied it but didn't study that stuff or didn't analyze or put any thought into it. It's fine. I did, so I can explain.

If you read that definition and think about it, it is talking about the case where different groups should not be treated differently, i.e. they should be irrelevant/indistinguishable, which is why things should apply to them equally. For example, everyone should be equal before the law. In that context, all possible groups are or can be combined into one - people or citizens or subjects of law or whatever. If groups can't be combined into one, then they are different things and you don't expect the same standards. For example, if you have two groups - people and pets, then it won't be a double standard if different standards were applied to them.

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Because we are sexually dimorphic species. When it comes to sex, men and women (or male and female) are different. When it comes to human rights, sex, race, age are irrelevant. I already explained it above. It's similar to employment or college admissions. Student is a sexless/genderless term. So if there are different requirements for men and women, then that would be double standards, but in general you expect the same rules and requirements. Same with human. Human includes all sexes, races, etc. As in if you are a woman and I'm a man we can say that we are both students, we are both humans, but we can't say we are both something when our sexes matter. As in you can talk about poles of a magnet in general, but when polarity matters you can't group North and South poles without losing relevant information.

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People who can read people will read you. People who can read you will decide what to do with that information. Doesn't negate the fact that some can't read or don't read well.

In this scenario then most people can't read that well. It's not that hard to hide jadedness. Just smile and make sure it reaches your eyes, and act happy and excited. Wish people well, congratulate them on their wins, condole them in their losses. It is very simple to hide your feelings.

Yes, i said this. Most women want someone on par with them. But late bloomer women might be a better match

The # of late bloomer men utterly dwarfs the # of late bloomer women. Most (as in 90%+) women won't date a virgin even if they feel assured that there's nothing else wrong with him and he's friendly, sociable, not an incel. Because they just don't want to have to teach a man, as that's a turn off.

Now think of it this way - if 90% of employers rejected people with darker skin, you'd have no problems in agreeing to the statement that race matters in the job market.

Then why aren't you agreeing to the statement that N counts matter in the sex and relationships market.

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It is mental health issues, and yeah it's fair that that's a deal breaker. But even if I do work on these issues and I am, the lack of sexual experience will still always be an albatross around my neck.

But more importantly my point was that it's not as simple as "no one wanted you".

As to socializing outside of college, I don't know but the culture is a little different here. When I went to college dating apps were only just coming around and I was too shy to put myself on those. So I only ended up socializing online. College itself was basically 99% dudes. Plus small town = no real avenues for much socializing. Like where I was, there wasn't a culture of hobby groups etc. Tbh dating is new to my country in general, but I realise people in the more metropolitan cities had started normalized dating since like the early 2000s. But smaller cities are far more conservative and it isn't normalized even now.

As to why I didn't leave - well I went to college late because shit mental health. And then I went to college in a small town. And then I was stuck in the small town trying to get to grad school. I've only now gotten an internship (gave up on grad school for the time being) and moved to a bigger city.

Now I'm trying to slowly become independent / get my life in order. And tbh I'm under no illusions. I have 3 great challenges in front of me

the prejudice women my age (33) have of older virgins
the fact that every time I try to make a move I get hit with anxiety (negative conditioning around sex thanks to growing up in a sex negative environment)
my insecurity and intrusive thoughts and feelings of emasculation around not being thr best sex a woman has had (although this might have upsides as I know it will drive me to insane degrees to really try and please her).

But anyway, from where I stand these seem like insurmountable challenges. Especially the first one, since it's an external prejuidice, not an internal anxiety or insecurity. But the way I've sort of consoled myself is that I've told myself yeah, I probably never will have a woman interested in me. That sucks. But I do have a life left and if I can't get sex and relationships, I can atleast try to make myself into the kind of guy who if he had gotten there earlier, would have gotten sex and relationships. Hence I'm trying now to become independent. Hopefully this internship will convert to a job (my boss said it's 99% sure but who knows, it's volatile times). I've gotten an apartment in this city thanks to a stroke of luck (mom and dad had purchased one as a real estate investment). And now I'm slowly trying to become the kind of guy who's good for relationships and sex. I'm slowly working towards fitness, learning to cook, learning to keep my house clean and smelling good. Learning to do all things at a very nuanced level because I know most men half ass it. Once my job is permanent I'll also start looking into clubs and hobbies to pursue. And look for opportunities to socialize more. Since that's an anxiety of mine.

I know no woman will ever want me because of the inexperience. That's okay. But the pain and regret of that drives me to atleast try and become the kind of man who, in another universe, could have gotten it. To get as close as possible to what could have been.

But this long digression aside, one thing is absolutely certain is that N count DOES matter. Maybe it matters more for men and for women only at the extremes (0 or 100s). But it does matter. That much I will always argue for because in my own lived reality I can see how much it matters.

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[–]ta060120221 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But my point is that if it’s stupid for men to care about N count since you won’t be able to truly know (you’re just taking her word for it), then it’s also stupid for women to care about the things that I mentioned. The same logic applies.

To an extent, but the implications differ depending on the unknowable thing we're talking about.

You don't really know what someone's n count is unless they tell you, but worst case is there' a misalignment in your sexual values.

You also don't really know whether someone has committed murder unless they tell you, but the worst case is they murder you.

Not all unknowable things are of the same level of importance. I think some women would likely argue that a man knowingly paying for trafficked prostitutes is more of a red flag than a man who has had fully consensual sex with many partners. One is enabling criminal activity and the other isn't.

I agree with you it probably doesn't make much sense to worry about it, because there's no way to know, but if you were to find out about it, the impact could be different.

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No, that's incorrect. I already explained it above.

You can pay for the body and still value the person. There's no contradiction. Moreover, there's even less contradiction when they pay one person and value another person. E.g. they paid for it in the past - even if they didn't value that person, that doesn't mean they don't value their current gf or bf.

So paying for sex doesn't tell you that they don't value people. Just like paying for any labor doesn't tell you that. Otherwise both would tell you that and you wouldn't be compatible with anyone because most people pay for labor, i.e. they don't value those people they just value the fruits of their labor done by their body. Imagine coercing them to make something for you and only then you give them money and if they don't make that thing, then they get no money and starve. Wow you only value their bodies/labor, not them as people. That's how insane you sound.

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i didnt call anyone promiscuous. it doesnt really matter what the average body count is, it varies depending on age, country and culture, and it heavily varies from one individual to the other. also people tend to end up with a partner with a similar bodycount to theirs. so its not delusional at all to want a partner’s bodycounts to be similar to yours. but even if it was delusional, who cares. its a personal preference, it can be delusional, the worst thats going to happen is that youre not going to find a partner.

“I'm sure you're telling the truth just like every other woman. However, I have to take this with a grain of salt since it's impossible to verify your statement. Otherwise, I set myself up to be manipulated by one of the millions of women who lie about their body counts.”

what a weird thing to say.

[–]AccomplishedDot70921 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]No-Comfort12291 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

for example .

“women are generally having sex” what does this generic claim even mean. source on women on average have a bodycount of 5? and also on “many studies conclude its in the double digits”?

“i prefer to live in reality” its not about living in reality or in a fantasy. its about being willing to be alone or not. if you’re willing to be alone you can afford any standard you want, but if you cant bear the thought of it, youre always going to pick the best of your options, regardless of how shitty those options are.

its weird of you to question my sexual behavior and my intention to manipulate you in an anonymous forum where im not trying to date you. what would i gain out of lying? or out of manipulating you? what does it even matter if im lying or not when i just provided it as an example of a preference i have. you started being weird about it.

[–]AccomplishedDot70921 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

for example

This only applies to ages 18-24, so it's a flawed study for your argument. Did you end up with your life partner at that age?

source on women on average have a bodycount of 5? and also on “many studies conclude its in the double digits”?

The lowest number I could find is 4.3 according to the CDC. Maybe the last guy just puts the head in.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm

The national average number of sexual partners was 14.8 for the United States.

https://bespokesurgical.com/2021/06/24/sexual-history-by-state/

For those who identify as men, the average number of sexual partners was 26. The average number of sexual partners for those who identify as women was a bit lower, coming in at 19.

https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.businessinsider.com/number-of-people-americns-say-theyve-had-sex-with-2018-8

11.7 for men and 7.7 for women in Britain:

https://www.natsal.ac.uk/natsal/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Natsal-3-infographics.pdf

“i prefer to live in reality” its not about living in reality or in a fantasy. its about being willing to be alone or not. if you’re willing to be alone you can afford any standard you want, but if you cant bear the thought of it, youre always going to pick the best of your options, regardless of how shitty those options are.

What's stopping someone from telling you what you want to hear so you'll date them? The worst case scenario is not being alone, it's getting played.

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It's not jealousy, it's feelings of inadequacy. And tbvh it's feelings of inadequacies that would drive me to center her pleasure completely, forever. But a lot of men can't get over their feelings of inadequacies. It's not that they don't like the woman, they just feel inadequate and emasculated every time they look at her. Both feelings exist at the same time, desire and emasculation. But it's not a pleasant experience. Much better to be with someone who doesn't emasculate you by virtue of their very presence. Hence, I think this preference is valid.

Like I get why women get so salty about this, and it's because men take their insecurity and externalise it by calling women whores and sluts and just demeaning them in general. That's not cool. But as long as a man is willing to admit that yes he does feel insecure because of a high n count, I think it's valid for him to seek out a low/no N count partner.

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That's not a valid argument. It doesn't follow the assumptions from the start. Nobody is saying that body is easily deformed. And even if they were - that wouldn't mean all organs are deformed equally easily. E.g. your eyes and your teeth/bones have very dissimilar properties and only one of them is deformed easily. They said that vaginas are deformed (didn't even say easily), not that body is easily deformed. So what you're saying is immediately invalid.

And yes, sure. Let's take a physical force called the gravitational force. If you try to lift or hold an object of the same mass, you will see that it affects male and female muscles differently. Of course, anything related to reproduction will be different, too, since reproductive systems are different. So no, by default you can't expect similarities there.

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[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you trolling or something? "it definitely is elastic. even if its not exactly the same, " this makes zero sense. It's only elastic if it's exactly the same. That's the definition of elastic. If the Hooke's law isn't working and deformation doesn't go to zero when applied force is zero, then it's not elastic.

I never said it was due to n count. You asked already and I answered - it would be due to size. N count, however, does show if they were more or less likely to encounter that size, but at the end of the day they either encountered it or didn't.

My point is that you are wrong saying that it's impossible and that it's elastic. It is not elastic depending on the size that was taken or the magnitude of deformation. What that magnitude is I do not know. I already challenged the OC about it in another comment. He couldn't answer so most likely what he's saying is based on nothing real, there are no numbers. He's right in general, but is probably wrong that it can actually happen with a penis. And you are wrong in general but right as long as the critical girth is not achieved

[–]grillopie1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because we are talking about physics. Elasticity is elasticity. Again, the point discussed is whether an organ can become looser, which means the plastic deformation happens. And the answer is yes whether you look at the effects of childbirth or use your rubber band model. No, not sure if time and frequency matters. The question is not why wouldn't it but why would it. That's how it works in logic. The affirmative claim must be proven, not the other way around. And there's evidence to suggest that it shouldn't matter if you look, again, at how deformations work. You can stretch and compress something all you want and as long as you stay in the elastic regime - nothing will happen.

Where is that my idea? Did you forget what we are talking about? You said that it doesn't change like a rubber band, not me. I am saying that in principle it does change if the deformation is big enough (e.g. child birth).

[–]grillopie1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

youre making as many assumptions as i am. youre assuming the elastic properties are a primary factor in perceivable looseness or tightness beyond losing virginity. like any muscles that are stretched beyond their elastic properties, it can recover over time. its not a rubber band, is my point. tissue can be repaired, tonality in muscles can change.

as for time, vaginal canal tone doesnt recover from childbrith immediately, it takes months. if any sort of trauma or hyperextension occurs from a penis (very, very unlikely), it similarly can recover over time.

vaginas are also supposed to loosen to a degree for sex to be easy and painless. this process can be difficult for a virgin, or if someone has ben abstinent a while. this can result in perceivable differences in tightness. i dont know what else to draw from other than anecdotal experience here since its not going to be something thats routinely measured, but there are plenty of anecdotes about this. this is why time is going to be a lot more important than n count. frequent sex will have an at least temporary effect that is commonly attested to. there is basically no chance a slight difference in circumference will have a permanent effect if the vaginal canal recovers, despite multiple tears from a babies head.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes because I'm not makin any new assumptions. I'm just showing you what your assumptions imply. Yes, and your point is incorrect. It can demonstrably become looser (childbirth). Again, what's your point? It can't be that it never becomes looser since it does. So what is it then?

Yes it takes month and in many cases it never fully recovers. Therefore, it's shown that in principle vagina can become looser if a big enough object stretches it enough.

Yeah no, that's irrelevant. Not talking about temporary changes. We are talking about permanent/long-term changes. And again no, it doesn't fully recover after a baby's head in many cases. Why do you keep repeating it? I already said that no it doesn't. A quick google search can confirm that. Or, since you are making an affirmative claim that it does, please carry the burden and show some proof. Otherwise, no, you can't use that argument and it's dismissed. It's just you making stuff up.

[–]grillopie1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]grillopie1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

who cares about elastic deformations, why are you fixated on that? its living tissue, its elastic properties are affected by trauma. if there is going to trauma, it will be less reversible, and more damaging the longer it lasts/the more often it happens.

if a babies head which literally rips and tears the vagina can be recovered from with potentially minimal perceptible effect, theres no chance a penis circumference delta will do the same. the critical thing is damage. tissues lose their properties when theyre damaged, or with excessive use/age. so even if it were possible, some penis will do some damage, one instance will have basically a 0% chance of being perceptible (using a babies head ripping and tearing as a comparator). if there were ANY chance it would be perceptible, it would have to be repeated damage. so assuming unknown penis size, sex frequency is going to be more important than n count, though neither will really make a difference in terms of permanent changes.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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youre complete ignoring how plastic deformations actually function in living tissue. you cant just posit a model that doesnt actually account for most of the physical processes that occur. the critical size causes trauma. trauma causes plastic deformations. there is a physical process that can heal the deformed tissue nearly completely. elastic properties DO recover in a human body. any time you injure a tendon, thats whats happening. it loses its elastic properties, and then they get restored.

the degree of trauma as well as repetitive trauma indicates how incomplete the recovery will be. this is the case with any injury. a babies head causes a lot of trauma, no penis will come close. any single instance of penis trauma, being such a magnitude less than a babies head trauma, has basically 0 chance of being perceptible if you wait a while. the chances of repeated penis trauma being perceptible are significantly higher than 1 single instance of penis trauma.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

youre not using a blackbox approach, youre saying it will adhere to some property of materials, ignoring an entire dynamic system outside of the material that will change its properties at any given moment in time. you cant not use a black box approach, predict that it will follow some set of rules, while ignoring known factors that work outside of those rules.

point is, there arent 2 critical sizes. size alone isnt necessarily the determining factor, since both time and repetition affect the degree of trauma, and the degree of trauma will be what causes any permanent changes. if a babies head crowning for 10s of minutes to hours is barely enough to be critical (post birth vaginas still function very well typically), how likely is it that 1 penis for roughly the same duration (but realistically less) going to come close? very, very unlikely. you could boost this likelihood with repetitive trauma, which is why the amount of sex is going to matter more than n count.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, I am. That is the black box approach. Input- system-output. All relevant details are in the system. Fact: big enough size causes irreversible deformation. Fact: small enough size doesn't cause irreversible deformation. Obviously, that means there's a critical size.

That's incorrect, again. Yes, size alone is enough as demonstrated by childbirth. If it's not enough by itself and the repetition matters then there's another critical size where this regime works. I already described it in detail above. What aren't you grasping? You are bringing time now as if it's something new? It's not, just add it as another variable together with repetition. You then get 3 modes: 1. size < crit size 1: elastic mode; 2. crit size 1< size< crit size 2: size = f(N,t) - different sizes can be critical depending on time and number of repetitions; 3. size>=crit size 2 - one repetition is enough. Mode 3 can be seen as a special case of mode 2.

No matter how you look at it, you were wrong in principle. And "how likely" question is not an argument and changes nothing. It only confirms that's about a quantitative measure, so nothing changes in principle. To answer it, we would need some data and to learn what the critical size is and whether it falls in range of possible penis sizes.

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

with the black box approach you wouldnt assume any of those “facts”. you dont know that size is the only variable. that would be the point of that approach, you dont know what you dont know. just input, ouput. since we have no inputs and no outputs, this isnt going to work. youll have to use actual knowledge about the human body.

The original point was whether N count matters more than instances of sex, the core question is one involving likelihood. and there is the additional information that youre looking for very available. does child birth cause trauma? yes lots. are vaginas cavernous after childbirth? no, but there may be a perceptible difference, though it seems there often isnt. do penises cause trauma? almost never in a consensual scenario. in the cases where it causes trauma, its much, much less than childbirth. repetitive trauma causes more damage than 1 instance of trauma.

given the typical robustness of recovery after childbirth, its a reasonable standard for what might cause a permanently perceptible difference. something that approaches the amount of trauma in childbirth would be the starting point. assuming random penises, few instances of sex is much less likely to approach childbirth than many more instances of sex.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You used the word elastic. I'm just going with it. And yes you can focus on elastic properties only if the model describes what's going on regardless of the rest. For example, the very case of deformations and elasticity in physics. We can and do use the Hooke's law in the elastic mode without thinking about the internal structure at all. There are, of course, all kinds of internal interactions that explain the spring constant but we just don't need them as long as more force results in proportionally more deformation.

Yes I did but that's because I understand what it means. Not sure why you are talking about it if you don't. Like, trying to come up with some weird limitations that just aren't a thing. No it would not mean assuming diameter is the only important variable. With everything else fixed it very well may be. Diameter is input, the rest is in the box, deformation is output. Each vagina is not a thing to consider until it is established how it works with a given vagina. Again, if we are talking about dependence on size, then the same size is just one data point. And the entire approach you described is just asinine. Like, it's useless. Think about taking multiple springs and suspending the same mass on them. What will you get from this data? Nothing. You will only see that mass stretches a spring. And if that mass was big enough - you will see that plastic deformations are possible but you don't even know the critical mass needed to reach those. Well yes, that's what you see looking at childbirth. I established that multiple comments ago and moved on. There's nothing else to get from it, why are you still bringing it up? It's a trivial example that simply shows that you were wrong and vaginas can't be considered always elastic. And you will be talking about my line of reasoning? My line of reasoning is that of a scientist. Your line of reasoning is that of an emotional person who feels things should be a certain way and can't acknowledge when they are wrong. And again, some this and some that is not an argument. That's why we have statistical methods. And it is well known that in most cases there's no full recovery after child birth, for example. Again, I mentioned this before.

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

im emotional despite you insisting on not applying any physiology?

how applicable is hookes law to the prognosis for a tendon injury? very minimal?

what scientist would assume diameter is the only variable in how childbirth effects the vagina? people themselves are a variable. testing the same drug, same procedure, same therapy technique in tens of thousands of people is kinda how we learn stuff. dont think youve ever done any life sciences.

i bring up childbirth because that is something with lots of data. if there is no data around penis size causing any permanent changes (which in and of itself should be a tell as to where the burden of proof lies considering how much sex occurs) and you want to understand if and how it could occur, using the thing that has a lot of data makes sense as a basis. if there is some remote possibility penises could cause permanent changes when childbirth doesnt always in the most edge cases, the likelihood of that occurring would have more to do with frequency than n.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're emotional because you are talking about things you don't understand desperately trying to defend some preexisting point you had before the conversation started. That's not how debating or analysis work. We simply look at facts and try to see what follows.

Hooke's law doesn't predict any damage. That's the whole point - it's only applicable when deformations are elastic.

Again with the different people. Any scientist would tell you that you can't change multiple factors simultaneously. Different springs will have different spring constants, too. That doesn't mean that for a given spring the only relevant characteristic will be its extension/compression or an applied force (depending on what you are controlling and what you are measuring).

Yes, there's no data about penis sizes and deformations. Which is why you can't claim that the critical size is not achievable there. You simply don't have the knowledge. It's like, idk, let's say you drop a piece of copper in a glass of water. It will sink. But does it mean copper's density is the critical density when it happens? No, it might be possible with densities that are a lot smaller. Again, why do you say child birth doesn't cause permanent changes in almost all cases? It literally does I mentioned it multiple times already. I googled it and that's what I found - in most cases it doesn't fully heal. Why are you saying that it does? Did you not google and are just making stuff up? If you did search for it I can't imagine you wouldn't find the same thing I found. It wasn't even hard, most of the results on the first page would already confirm it.

And again with the frequency. Do you not understand that I already accounted for it when I mentioned 2 critical sizes earlier? It doesn't change the point anyway, too. Because if for any given size a certain frequency is required, higher n still means it's more likely that that (or bigger) size was encountered.

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

my original point is that theres basically no chance a penis will cause permanent changes to a vagina. if there is some remote scenario where it happens, frequency is more important than n count.

if hookes law isnt relevant to prognosis from tendon damage, can you explain anything youve tried to apply so far that is? how important is the momentary force applied. vs the time it was applied over, vs the frequency that damage has occurred; which factors are more important to the prognosis? your whole insistence on some critical size being the only or most important factor makes no sense. saying some smaller size can cause damage with increased frequency isnt really accounting for whether the prognosis is better with 1 instance of larger damage or multiple instances of less damage.

not sure where youre going with the differences between people. you definitely cant change multiple factors simultaneously, thats why each child birth is its own data point, even if you restrict it to only child births of babies within a narrow weight range. you used the example of suspending the same weight from multiple springs and how that doesnt make sense. except when it comes to people, thats actually what you need to do to not change multiple factors simultaneously.

given that an average babies head usually causes no damage to an average vagina, that is a good starting point. you could only approach that degree of damage with both a large penis and frequent sex, and even then, it would be dubious (hence the lack of anecdotal documentation despite lots of sex). which would mean frequency would be more important than n count if you could only know 1.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are basing it on nothing and that's why you are wrong and why I joined. You have no reason to be saying this other than your intuition. You only have one data point - childbirth does cause permanent changes. Therefore, it's obvious that there exist a critical size that does cause those changes. But since you don't know what that size is, you don't know if those changes could happen if a penis is big enough and a vagina is small enough.

Are you trolling or something? Hooke's law describes elastic deformations. How is it not describing plastic deformations an argument against the fact that those deformations exist? Do you not read what I'm saying? I don't insist on size being the only factor. As I agreed with you, it could be size + frequency. Therefore, even smaller sizes can cause damage with enough frictions. Great. That only makes my point stronger and yours weaker. What prognosis is better? Who cares about better? Better in what sense? The point is, in principle the size can cause permanent damage. The fact that I can't calculate it precisely doesn't change anything.

No, you are going with different people. I'm saying " again with the different people" as in you should stop because it's dumb. Because you can't change multiple factors and that's what you're doing trying to talk about different people. That's why each child birth is not its own data point if we are talking about dependence on size. Sure, not all heads and vaginas are the same size, so it's more than one point but it is roughly one point in this context because we are talking about the size dependence, i.e. we want to vary size significantly, not look at the same size +- a few %. And no, it's not "except when it comes to people". What I said is universal. That's just how science and logic work. Springs were just an example, they are not special and humans are not special. In science you need to use the correct method. And suspending different weights (or even the same) to different springs once each is not scientific method. It's stamp collecting at best, but really it's more of a "you're not even wrong" case

given that an average babies head usually causes no damage to an average vagina, that is a good starting point. you could only approach that degree of damage with both a large penis and frequent sex, and even then, it would be dubious (hence the lack of anecdotal documentation despite lots of sex). which would mean frequency would be more important than n count if you could only know 1.

Again with this bs. The premise is false. I called you out on it at least 3 times already and you keep using it. No, irreversible damage is caused in most childbirths. I reiterated it multiple times and you still say it causes no damage? Like what? Full recovery doesn't happen. The damage heals as in it's no longer sore and stuff but it is looser. Based on what are you claiming that it fully recovers and doesn't become looser? So no, it's not a good starting point because all we know is that the critical size is smaller than the baby size, not bigger.

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The prognosis is the only factor thats important. how will that damage heal? whats the importance of damage if its a full recovery? you yourself said only PERMANENT damage matters. in a human body, that would have to factor in the recovery process. How is elastic deformations going to tell you about how your body recovers from damage?

how does being able to cause damage with either size or frequency strengthen anything youve said?! if a babies head isnt big enough to cause enough damage with great consistency to always be perceptible, you think 1 single penetration from 1 penis has much likelihood of doing that? clearly the only way to approach the damage caused by childbirth is with the addition of frequency.

i dont get why you think NOT counting different people is changing fewer variables lol. a person is a variable. if you dont count different people differently, and assume theyre all the same, youre the one changing variables that youre not accounting for. are you sure you know anything about science? why would some of the most expensive studies in the world test the same dose of the same drug on tens of thousands of different people? even if you want to vary a different variable, you still test 2 different doses of the same drug, on tens of thousands of people each. each person still has to be a different variable. each vagina and each babies head, the orientation it comes out in, complications during the process, age, pre-existing conditions, are not going to be the same.

you keep saying what im saying is based on nothing lol. you have it backwards.

its looser

what is this based on? its reliably, perceptibly looser? this is the bs, right here.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Again, there is no full recovery in cases I am talking about. That's where damage matters. That's what I even call damage - stuff that does not heal.

! if a babies head isnt big enough to cause enough damage with great consistency to always be perceptible, you think 1 single penetration from 1 penis has much likelihood of doing that? clearly the only way to approach the damage caused by childbirth is with the addition of frequency.

If it isn't then sure. But it is. As I already mentioned multiple times. And no, need to add frequency to childbirth since even one case makes it looser. Are you having troubles reading or retaining information that you read? Like, I can go back and count how many times I referred to the fact that there is no full recovery after childbirth, yet you keep pretending that there is and keep making arguments based on this false premise.

i dont get why you think NOT counting different people is changing fewer variables lol. a person is a variable. if you dont count different people differently, and assume theyre all the same, youre the one changing variables that youre not accounting for. your argument also lacks any consistency. lol the babies heads are all the same size (and shape), but penises are like insanely different person to person? what?

I explained everything above. I don't know what you don't get. Read some books, perhaps? And how do you say the same size as if I didn't specify that it's not exactly the same and just similar but in a very narrow range (+- few %). Which is not enough range to determine the critical size and see the dependence. Do you not understand that experimental points have some deviation to them and even if I take a linear dependence - if I zoom in it is possible that points will go up and down. That's why we need to zoom out and consider wide ranges. Again, heads are all similar and lead to unrecoverable loosening. Therefore taking more data with them is useless. The size must be decreased until the critical size is found.

are you sure you know anything about science? why would some of the most expensive studies in the world test the same dose of the same drug on tens of thousands of different people? even if you want to vary a different variable, you still test 2 different doses of the same drug, on tens of thousands of people each. each person still has to be a different variable. each vagina and each babies head, the orientation it comes out in, complications during the process, age, pre-existing conditions, are not going to be the same.

Yes, I am sure. You don't get degrees after undergrad for nothing. They would test the same drug on different people because that's different type of research. This one is about stats and probability, not about dependence on a physical parameter (although that could emerge if you notice that people who had certain outcomes had something in common). Not sure why you are arguing about things you know nothing about.

you keep saying what im saying is based on nothing lol. you have it backwards.

No, I don't have it backwards. I did mention about no recovery after childbirth multiple times above. Pretty sure I even said exactly what I googled instead of a specific link because there were multiple results saying the same thing. What you keep repeating about full recovery after childbirth is based on nothing.

what is this based on? its reliably, perceptibly looser? this is the bs, right here.

From creators of "are you sure you know anything about science". No, it's not bs. Any instrument has sensitivity. Perceptibility is relevant. And yes, it's reliably looser. Many men and women report that. I closed all those tabs now, but iirc in something like 97% cases there are permanent changes or no full recovery. Don't remember the exact number I read, so not gonna refer to it.

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

thats where damage matters

ok. so then prognosis is the only important thing. how does anything you say about plastic deformations apply to the prognosis after an injury? to a tendon? you can deform a tendon, and it can fully recover. same with a vagina. the inability to heal is going to involve many more factors. i think youre the one struggling here? you know permanent damage is damage that CANT fully heal right? how can you disregard the concept of healing when answering that question?

(+ - few %)

how is this different from the variation of penis circumferences? why does one difference matter, but the other doesnt? just absurd. also why does % matter here lol? are you sure you know anything about science? lets say penis circumference differs between 2 people by 20%. 2 babies heads differs by 10%. which difference do you think actually matters more? its just crazy that you think the variance between babies heads

they are different types of research

how? they also test the same device, the same procedure, on many different people. you dont just test it on one and draw conclusions.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vagina-after-giving-birth

Where are you getting that it reliably and consistently fails to recover in a perceptible way? please link. im saying it can fail to recover, but doesnt always, which is what makes it a good standard.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

ok. so then prognosis is the only important thing. how does anything you say about plastic deformations apply to the prognosis after an injury? to a tendon? you can deform a tendon, and it can fully recover. same with a vagina. the inability to heal is going to involve many more factors. i think youre the one struggling here? you know permanent damage is damage that CANT fully heal right? how can you disregard the concept of healing when answering that question?

In what universe does "ok so" and then saying something unrelated to what I said and in this case actually what I showed was false/irrelevant is a good argument? Not in this one, that's for sure. No, prognosis is not the only important thing. The only important thing is whether or not you were correct when you said it rebounds. That's the only thing I'm talking about. And you were wrong as shown above. Again, you don't understand what fully healing means. When they say that it heals in medicine, that means it's not sore etc, it doesn't mean that the size/tightness is back to the exact size/tightness that it was before.

how is this different from the variation of penis circumferences? why does one difference matter, but the other doesnt? just absurd. also why does % matter here lol? are you sure you know anything about science? lets say penis circumference differs between 2 people by 20%. 2 babies heads differs by 10%. which difference do you think actually matters more? its just crazy that you think the variance between babies heads is insignificant, but the variance in penis diameter is going to be the difference between a good vagina and a busted one lol.

Are you that bad at math or something? Then why are you talking at all form the position of arguing instead of asking and learning? The same absolute size variation of a bigger number (head) is a higher % difference compared to that of a smaller number (penis circumference). Obviously, we can choose some step and distinguish number that are that far apart, but everything close to the number will just be averaged and considered to be the same. That's literally how it works when you measure anything. Every tool has limits. Not to mention, that baby head is already above the critical size so to answer your question the size that gives me more information will matter more. 10% of the object that is above critical size doesn't matter because we are above critical size anyway. 20% below critical size (or around) can bump me above critical size and then I'll be able to say in what range the critical size is. Do you understand? If we don't know the critical size and want to find it, then we need to move towards it. That's what I meant. I didn't say variance of penis size is significant in comparison. Variance is variance. What I'm getting at is that it's pointless to look at objects that are close to each other (I assumed variance of heads was few %, not 10 or 20%) and are above the critical size anyway.

how? they also test the same device, the same procedure, on many different people. you dont just test it on one and draw conclusions. each person is a data point. they have numerous information collected about them, and they can and must be grouped by things that are specific to them. if you are talking recovery, an age difference is going to be huge.

Do you only read the first sentence? I literally explained how just below the sentence you quoted.

if you are talking recovery, an age difference is going to be huge.

??? Were you using chatgpt in your lab/science courses? What does that have to do with anything? If I'm looking into dependence on a certain parameter, then I must fix other parameters. Yes and if we are talking mass then volume is going to be huge but why would I care about it if I want to study how mass depends on density?

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Rebounds. What do you think causes the rebounding after child birth? What do you think would cause it to fail to rebound? What about a tendon injury? The prognosis is what will determine that. Not whether it was deformed. Again, you can deform a tendon, and it can fully recover. 100%.

You CANNOT fix different humans as a parameter. No matter how much you want to. Just assuming they are the same does not make them the same. I dont know what youre on about in terms of just having everything average out lol. The conclusion is still the same. Lets say the average babies head causes irreversible damage. The average penis doesnt. The likeliest way for a penis to cause irreversible damage, on average, will still be through repetition, given the massive difference between an average penis and an average head. If youre intent on finding some “critical size” theres 0 reason to just ignore the variation of head sizes.

The absolute size difference is the only difference that matters. There is no 1 critical size. People are different. Peoples ability to recover are different. The gestational age at birth is different. The complications during birth are different. There is no reason to assume the difference in head sizes is insignificant but difference in penis sizes is somehow significant. The absolute variation in head sizes is more than penis sizes. If a single instance of a head cannot always cause a perceptible difference given a long recovery period, the variation in penis size is going to be insignificant. The only way to approach the amount of trauma in 1 instance of childbirth is many instances of some significantly larger than average penis.

Still insane that you think it makes sense to just assume head sizes are the same but penis size variation is so significant lol.

It doesnt matter if you want to view this as probabilities or not. Medical studies also have conclusions that are in probabilities. there are no studies involving people that assume people are just the same. So no, your explanation failed. Every person is always a data point. Otherwise the conclusions will have basically no validity. You CANT fix the fact that 2 different people are different ages. Thats the point. No one cares what you think MUST be done. Its beyond the realm of possibility.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There is no rebounding after child birth as I keep telling you for a while now. It doesn't matter what happens on the inside. Input and output is all that matters.

Yes you can. You will group them by as many similarities as you can.

None of that matters in this context, no. All of that stuff still doesn't change the fact that the critical size exists. If it's different depending on some parameters, then there's a range of critical sizes. That doesn't change anything. All we know is that the range is in sizes below the size of the baby head. It could overlap with the penis size. We have no data and no reason to say that it doesn't. You are simply wrong.

It's insane that you think that that's what I said. That's not at all what I said.

I don't view it as anything. I'm just telling you how it works. My explanation didn't fail. You failed to understand it.

[–]grillopie1 point 8 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

As i keep telling you, there is not always sexual dysfunction or a perceptible difference after child birth. Your insistence that there is never a recovery is based on nothing.

You still treat every individual person as a data point. The more tightly you group them, the better your conclusions can be, but you have just said all babies heads are more or less the same, and all vaginas are more or less the same lol. That you can just average it out and draw some meaningful conclusion. Thats not grouping them.

If there is a critical size assuming other fixed parameters; one instance of sex is less traumatic in all of those other parameters. Its shorter, and much less straining since there arent repetitive and extreme contractions which can strain tissues. there can be recovery after child brith resulting in no perceptible difference in sexual function, which means some combination of parameters within the childbirth range would include the parameters that cause permanent damage.

the absolute variation in babies heads is greater than the absolute variation in sexually functional mens penis size, the penis size variation is going to be much less likely to cause any permanent changes with 1 instance of sex, given that size aside, childbirth is more traumatic than sex. The much more likely, but still remote possibility to cause permanent changes with sex is with multiple instances. So n count matters less than sexual frequency.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Again you keep telling me, while I googled and read that it does happen in the vast majority of cases. I referred to it above and iirc even mentioned exactly what I googled so you can verify it yourself. So unless you can prove that it doesn't, I will keep dismissing it and wondering if you are reading what you are responding to.

That is grouping them. Depending on the context, indeed all of them can be considered pretty much the same. You obviously would group by certain factors that you'd expect would affect the result, e.g. age or some metric describing size before birth, etc.

No, it's not less critical depending on the size. One instance of sex with a whale is more impactful than 100 times with an above-average human. And either way, I already covered that like 10 comments ago. There could be a critical size for which one unit is enough (one instance of sex, for example), a size for which two in necessary, etc. I broke it down earlier. That doesn't change the fact that it is possible that the critical size exists and it's possible that it's small enough that the range of sizes described above overlaps with the range of penis sizes. That means that you are in principle wrong saying that it rebounds or denying that higher d count means it is more likely to encounter the critical size.

No, you can't claim that unless you have numbers. Intuitively, % difference between smallest and biggest penis is larger than that between heads. No, the conclusion is incorrect. As already explain above, the frequency is only important if the given size requires certain number of instances. This has nothing to do with the count, however. The count means it is more likely to encounter the size with which certain frequency (or even one time) will lead to deformation. Do you not understand that? Now, which of them matters less depends on probabilities. Unless you can prove it numerically, you can't know which one matters more. And either way, the argument is not which one matters more. You said n count doesn't matter and you said it rebounds. That's what the argument is about.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I dont remember seeing any links from you. Not sure what you mentioned you googled but i cant reproduce it. Here is what i got with “prevalence of loose feeling vagina after childbirth”

“loose feeling vagina” (vaginal laxity) is very common after childbirth, especially vaginal birth, affecting many women as tissues stretch; while often temporary and improving with pelvic floor exercises (Kegels) as the body heals over months, some degree of persistent laxity or related issues (pelvic organ prolapse, incontinence) can occur, with prevalence estimates varying widely (2-48%) depending on delivery trauma, baby’s size, and number of births.

2-48%. Probably common, not overwhelming.

That critical size where one instance of sex could approach the trauma of childbirth would be enough would be larger than an average babies head, since nothing else in sex is as traumatizing as childbirth. Is that likelier for someone to have experienced or a larger than average penis many times? The latter, clearly. Which is why if sex could affect things at all, frequency is more important than n count.

Its actually not intuitive that the largest and smallest penis variation even by relative % terms is greater than babies heads. Only sexually healthy adults will be relevant in penis size. ANY condition of baby can be born. Premature, and late births, all in the same bucket. From 1-11 pounds.

https://www.bronsonhealth.com/app/files/public/e1e133ca-7024-444d-9440-94fdcfeba6d7/Premature_and_newborn_size_chart.pdf

And once again, if youre interested in a critical size, the % difference is irrelevant. The actual diameter variation is intuitively MUCH greater with babies heads vs sexually active adult mens penis sizes.

Practically, n count doesnt matter. But this argument is that not only does it not matter enough to be practical, it matters even less than frequency, which also doesnt matter practically.

It does rebound. Its not a gaping hole afterwards lol. You misunderstood the process by which that happens.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You don't need to remember, you need to scroll up and see what I said. Then maybe you can reproduce the search. Here's a brand new search - you will see many people agreeing that it won't go back to the exact same feel (i.e. won't rebound as a rubber band which you claimed). It will recover as in back to healthy/functional (i.e. it will heal) but not back to the same tightness. https://www.thebump.com/a/will-my-vagina-ever-be-the-same-after-delivery https://torontophysiotherapy.ca/vaginal-laxity-and-childbirth-is-a-loose-vagina-common/ https://www.libresse.co.za/break-taboos/myths-and-facts/pregnancy/vagina-after-birth/#:~:text=Your%20vagina%20may%20feel%20a,women%20experience%20after%20giving%20birth https://www.todaysparent.com/baby/postpartum-care/vagina-after-birth/ https://www.babycenter.com/baby/postpartum-health/will-my-vagina-stay-stretched-out-after-delivery_1156123

Your link doesn't prove your point about % difference at all. It shows that size are different based on gestation. No sht, premature babies will be smaller. Nobody was talking about those. If you include them, then of course sizes will differ a lot. But even there, you can clearly see how height and weight are given as ranges, while the head size is one number for any given gestation period, which means the range is negligibly small in comparison. The smallest range featured is 21 to 22 in, which means the % difference of 4.65%.

Again, % difference is relevant if I want to see how big of a step I have between data points. Please, don't argue if this is obviously not your thing. And no, as your own link shows, the actual variation for babies of the same "age" seems to be less than 4%.

Of course n count practically matters. The higher it is - the more likely you are to encounter the critical size(or size+frequency for smaller sizes) whatever that size is.

It doesn't rebound like a rubber band, that is the deformation is not elastic. It mostly rebounds, but not fully. That's a definition of an inelastic/plastic deformation.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lol what?! youre the one who said it should follow the same rules as a material like a rubber band, where a plastic deformation is permanent. i said it WASNT like a rubber band. i said it takes MONTHS to recover. i said youd be more likely to perceive more tightness with someone who hasnt had sex in a long time. what about that sounds like a rubber band? youre the one who neglected the concept of healing, fixating on plastic deformations, as if that would have relevance to permanent damage. tissue can suffer plastic deformations, and heal 100%. or they can not heal 100%. it does not by definition, fail to rebound, just because of a deformation. so youre wrong.

nothing in your link remotely indicates the overwhelming majority of women will suffer from some perceivable looseness that is permanent. you just came up with an anecdote that says “probably” but then goes on to say some exercises will make it recover lol. nowhere is that overhwleming. once again, the only numbers i found with a prompt that wasnt leading was 2-48% for permanent changes.

clearly this is not your thing. what logical reason is there to only look at a very narrow range of gestational age? babies are born at a variety of ages. none of your other information has that restriction. it makes zero sense. what if i looked at penis sizes only of men of a very narrow height range? the variation would probably be smaller, but also, who cares? how is that restriction relevant?

% difference is irrelevant if youre interested in a crititcal size. nothing you say really changes that. its not relevant what the % difference between 2 penises are, and the % difference between 2 heads. lets say the difference between 2 penises is 7%, and the differnece between 2 heads is 3%. what exactly are you going to conclude? your conclusion is going to need to include the absolute value. you cant decide to dismiss a relative variation between heads as insignificant, just because the relative variation of penises looks bigger. the absolute variation would have to be insignificant.

not only is the absolute variation in babies heads NOT insignificant, but the relative variation isnt either, since you cant just decide to only compare a narrow range of gestational age just for the convenience of your argument. it doesnt actually make any sense.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It doesn't matter how long it takes to recover if it recovers. You said it recovers. It doesn't. You insisted that it's elastic, too. You literally said "it definitely is elastic. even if its not exactly the same, its like at least 98% the same. women arent walking around with gaping baby head sized vaginal canals." Which also reminds us that you don't know what elastic is (or didn't know back then if you learned it by now) but are still arguing for some reason. And as already explained multiple times, if it heals after the deformation, then in this context/model that would mean an elastic deformation.

Again you are talking about math when it's not your thing. Just learn. I don't say you need to look at only one age. I said you need to understand that obviously age will mean bigger size. But babies aren't born at all those different ages equally. You don't seem to grasp what the topic is about. You were showing that table to prove variations, the table shows clearly that there is no variations unless the age is very different. Clearly, I was talking about the same - most common - age that most babies have when they are born. Not about premature exceptions.

Yes it is relevant. Nothing I say or anyone says changes that, indeed. And clearly you didn't read everything I said or read it without thinking. You don't conclude anything from %. You didn't get the point at all. Small % difference simply means they are not statistically distinguishable. Just like in your table, heights are represented as ranged but head sizes are not. You understand, that head sized were not absolutely equal, right?

Yes, it's definitely insignificant when they are born in similar conditions (same age). Your table clearly shows it. And yes you absolutely can consider a narrow range in this argument, since clearly normal conditions are implied, i.e. 40 weeks or so.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Even the most common ages babies are born is a range. You just looked at the variance between the exact same gestational age. There is still a significant variation in size.

It does recover, sometimes. And other times it doesnt. 2-48% of people have permanent sexual changes. How is it not elastic? Is a tendon elastic? Youre still failing to wrap your head around the fact that there can be an external process that affects its elastic properties. There is no context in which it is or isnt an elastic deformation. It is, or isnt. A tendon can snap and heal 100%, is that not an elastic deformation lol? Its just absurd youre trying to apply rules that make no sense.

A “small” percent difference doesnt mean they are statistically indistinguishable. Clearly youre having trouble understanding science. Whether they are statistically indistinguishable is based on the study. There is no “small” or “big” % difference. Thats subjective. A 0.5% difference could be statistically significant. Depends on the population and distribution. But since only the absolute size difference matters, the % difference is irrelevant, and no attempt at saying the % difference is small is going to make that variation something you can dismiss, while at the same time nonsenically valuing the variation in penis sizes.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That range is a lot smaller than the variation in the table. In fact, it's not even covered in the table. It jumps from 36 to 40 while the common range is 38-42. Which again, reminds us about why percent % is important. They simply don't distinguish age differences that are separated by less than a certain number of weeks. Step size matters, as explained above.

It almost never fully recovers. 98% the same is not 100% the same and is by definition not elastic. WTF you mean how it's not elastic?? I explained multiple times above and posted links or at least dropped terms to google. Elastic means fully reversible, i.e. when you apply force it deforms but as soon as that force is zero - it's back to where it was. No hysteresis. When they say recovers in medicine, they mean that it heals, not that it becomes as tight as before.

No, I'm not having troubles understanding what I do every day. You do. That and math. I don't understand why you're are arguing instead of listening. Yes, there are big and small % differences. This is not subjective. They are relative to 100%. And no it has nothing to do with population and distribution because % dif we are talking about is along the x-axis. I simply pointed out to show that that % dif is smaller than a step size in your table. And as for heads and dicks, yes, if we know for sure that the critical size is somewhere below the head size, then it's pointless to take small steps around those values until you first see where the deformation goes from plastic to elastic. I explained all this. What are you still failing to grasp? If I have a spring and know that suspending 10kg stretches it plastically but 1kg elastically and I'm looking for how much mass it can take, then why would I vary the weight slightly after it was already plastically deformed? Of course I wouldn't. What I would do, is I would add mass to 1kg in small increments until the deformation is no longer elastic.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m not sure how the fact that 42 weeks isn’t in the chart i linked helps validate your idea that head size variation is insignificant. 15% of babies are born before 37 weeks, not an insignificant number. the difference between 36 weeks and 40 weeks is 15%. not an insignificant relative difference. it will be greater if you include 42 weeks.

how is it not subjective what % difference is “big” and “small”? what’s small? what’s big? 2% is small, but 10% is big? how is there any way to define that other than something arbitrary? Any study can be powered to detect a specific % difference. any % difference can be statistically significant. im not seeing why i should be listening to you lol. you have no idea what you’re talking about. the only thing that matters here is the absolute difference. nothing you say can dismiss head sizes variation as insignificant without including the absolute variation. nah dude, you know nothing about science.

we don’t know what the critical size is. it’s somewhere in the range of head sizes, hence why not everyone fails to recover. you still haven’t provided the link that shows an overwhelming majority of women will have some perceptible difference in sexual function. 2-48% of women have reported permanent sexual dysfunction caused by childbirth. as for 98% recovered, i’m saying that would represent the majority (or maybe plurarlity?) of people with the permanent sexual dysfunction. if i choose a hypothetical case, it doesn’t instantly mean everyone is exactly the same as this one hypothetical case. I didn’t say 98% of women fail to recover.

Elastic is fully reversible, within a specific process. how can you define something as elastic if it fully recovers after snapping? makes no sense. 100% recovery means no loss in function. tendons can recover to 100%, or they can not. it depends on other factors that won’t follow any of the rules you mentioned.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If it was significant, it would be on the chart. Simple. No, 42 weeks wouldn't be more a more significant step because you would compare it to 40 not 36. And who cares about that? I'm talking the head size difference over those intervals must not be significant if it's not included/broken down into smaller time increments.

We don't know that it's in the range of head sizes. It could be in the range of penis sizes. There's no data or research about this. Yes, I did provide links. They talk about majority. No, you said it's 98% the same. As in, the tightness recovered to 98% of its previous value. That would mean the deformation wasn't elastic by definition.

Of course it makes sense. That's the definition. If it doesn't fully recover, then it's not elastic. That's all. If it's not as tight as before, then it underwent an inelastic deformation.

[–]grillopie2 points 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It doesn't matter what it's for. It's there and it will be used. That fact does mean a lot considering the title of the chart. Yes, the difference between 36 and 40 is significant, that's why they are separate data points. What do you not understand still?

What does tendon have to do with anything? We are talking about the tightness of vaginas. And the model we are using is very simple - it either comes back to the exact tightness it had before (elastic) or it doesn't (inelastic). Speaking of tendon, the answer would depend on what we are talking about. The deformation itself wouldn't be elastic if we were zoomed in and considered the time right before and right after, but if we zoom out and it heals and has the exact same properties after - then you can say it's elastic because in this model it would be.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I already explained it in detail. We already know that the head size is above the critical size, so it's pointless to distinguish data points that are above that number.

Yeah, not the case here. Nothing is completely breaking and disconnecting. And again, what happens between the states of interest is not important when the model is about comparison with rubber band and elasticity. All that matters in that model is whether the deformation is reversible. As for frequency, as explained multiple times earlier, it can be accounted for. It's not more important than size unless you can prove that it is. Instead, the necessary frequency is lower for bigger sizes and vice versa. It's pretty obvious that if, for example, 3 in diameter will cause inelastic stretching at frequency 3 Hz, then a higher diameter will cause it at a lower frequency. If you extrapolate it to see at what number the frequency hits zero, then you get the size that will cause irreversible change immediately. Size is still important and there are still sizes that are so small that no frequency will lead to inelastic stretching. And either way, the count is relevant because the higher it is, the more likely it is that the size (and frequency) big enough to cause inelastic deformations were encountered.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you explain nothing…each time. nothing you say makes sense. if tissue can be torn completely, and recover, what makes you think you “know” head sizes is above a critical size? a baby has more mass, the process is FAR more traumatic with contractions that are intense and traumatic. the babies shape is far more conducive to damage compared to a penis, and still, only 2-48% of people have permanent issues.

you have yet to demonstrate how you “know” that apart from all the other different variables in childbirth compared to sex, some critical size has been crossed despite less then everyone having permanent issues? your method for accounting for frequency doesn’t work here.

you can account for frequency, except you don’t know a critical size. so you cannot isolate that variable. my point is at least having more frequency increase the already very low likelihood that sex could approach the trauma of childbirth.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I explain everything. If it doesn't make sense to you that's because you aren't thinking and aren't trying to learn. You came with a preconceived notion and are defending it instead of acknowledging that you're wrong when you're shown to be wrong. I said multiple times how we know that heads are above critical size - in most cases the vagina is never as tight as it was before childbirth. 2-48% is not a meaningful number, it's bs and therefore the source is bs.

I demonstrated it earlier, I referred to stuff I found. Either posted a link or wrote what I searched for. How else do you think I know? I googled when this conversation started and when I saw that in most cases there's no full rebounding, I saw that you are wrong and joined the convo.

You don't need to. You measure the same size at different frequency for multiple sizes, then you have a table of numbers - like a function of 2 variables - and now yes you can isolate it. Easily. That's basic experimental science.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you never posted a link or found anything that said 100% of women fail to recover. saying youve shown something doesnt mean you’ve shown it. finding a source that shows in “most cases” vaginas fail to recover would also fail to prove your point. it would need to be nearly all, and even then, as i explained multiple times, you STILL wouldn’t know a critical size, since size is far from the only, and far from the most important variable which is different between childbirth and sex. if tissue can snap, and recover 100%, size isn’t going to be the most important variable.

2-48% is too wide a range, therefore it’s bs, and it must be 100%. thats a very scientific thought process.

your experimental science here doesn’t work on people, since they are their own variable. also, this is not an experimental situation. you have no subjects. so no, you cant account for frequency, given what you can find.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I never said it was 100% of women. It doesn't need to be 100% of women. No, showing that in most cases vaginas fail to recover would prove my point because that's exactly my point. 2-48% number is bs as explained above, therefore it's dismissed and doesn't prove or disprove anything. I said it long time ago, too, I have no idea why you keep bringing it up.

Experimental science works on everything. What I described absolutely works on people and have been used on people for ages. That's a basic principle, it doesn't care what it's used on. YEs, you can account for frequency as explained above. But it doesn't even matter if you can't. Your point was that the number of partners doesn't matter (and that it rebounds which was shown to be wrong earlier). It obviously does since the higher number it is, the more likely it is that one encounters a partner whose size is big enough to cause deformation or with whom the frequency was high enough( for his size).

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you havent explained why its bs. wheres this scientist type of thinking lol? you just said “its bs.” 2-48% isnt an absurd range of results for multiple studies to see. studies in people are going to have different results.

“most” doesnt prove your point. if only 60% of women fail to fully recover after childbirth, the “critical size” for a baby would be somewhere within the range of babies heads. the critical size for a penis would be bigger than the critical size for a baby, since all other factors that are relevant are more conducive to permanent damage in childbirth than sex.

you saying something doesnt make it true, so not sure why you think that saying it a long time ago means anything.

your method for “accounting” for frequency doesnt work on people as you described it, since people are their own variable. theyre not a constant. there is a way to account for the differences between people in some hypothetical experiment, but thats not what you described. and its also irrelevant, since this isnt an experiment that exists, or one that could work. there are only going to be observational studies with an end point of sexual dysfunction related to sex or childbirth.

i never said the number of people doesnt matter at all. it maybe matters too little for any practical use, but maybe it matters to some extremely insignificant extent. i said it matters LESS than frequency of sex (which also matters too little to be important). number of partners with low frequency is going to have a lower likelihood of having trauma approaching childbirth than fewer partners with much more frequency.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, I did. That's all the explanation you need. This result is literally worthless. And no wonder, as you said it's based on self-reporting. That's why fields that process that type of data are not sciences (well, that and the definition of science/Popper's criteria). They try to use the scientific method but they are not reliable, reproducible, or verifiable.

Most does very much prove my point because my point was about most, not all. If 60% of women didn't recover, then yeah you would look into difference between them and would try to dissect it further. The number I saw and referred to earlier was more like 90%+ though. There is no critical size for a baby and for a penis, only for a vagina. And that size is unknown. We only know that it's definitely smaller than a typical baby size.

Yes, the method works perfectly. You can also isolate different groups of people if there are any relevant factors. This is literally how it works, it doesn't matter people or not.

Yes, you did. Here: https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ofv66e/comment/nodk285/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
You said that it doesn't matter, not that it matters but frequency matters more.

And saying it matters too little for any practical use is still wrong. You would have to prove it. Without proof quite clearly it matters - the higher it is, the higher the probability to be stretched is. No, the number of partners with low frequency is irrelevant. Again, how low the frequency needs to be depends on the size. I described how that function would look earlier - the bigger the size, the lower frequency is required. In the limit the frequency is zero - i.e. that size will do damage after one time. Either way, it doesn't matter since you can just fix the frequency and for the fixed frequency the higher the number , the more likely it is that she encountered the size that is big enough to be critical for that frequency. Nothing changes. A penis is far from the baby size, yes. But that doesn't mean anything. As I said so long ago - and you had so much time to google it - after the deformation stops being elastic, the dependence is no longer linear. Therefore, how far sizes are doesn't mean anything. For all we know, the critical size could be very far from the baby size.

Again, the count itself - just like frequency - doesn't cause deformation. Certain sizes do. The count is a measure of how likely encountering that size is. And the frequency is a measure of how big that size needs to be.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you said yourself in your attempt to account for frequency that there is a critical size with a frequency of once, and a different critical size with multiple frequencies. this means there is no 1 critical size for a vagina. the thing you failed to account for is how much different childbirth is to sex. there are way more variables, but all of them are more traumatic than sex. so using that same logic, there would be 1 critical size for childbirth, and 1 critical size for sex. the critical size for childbirth will be smaller than the critical size for sex.

nowhere did you ljnk anything that said 90% of women fail to recover given a very long time. “most” does not prove your point because babies heads vary. if 60% of women fail to recover, the critical size is going to be within the range of head sizes.

the end point here is a perceptible difference when having sex. there is no other result other than reporting. reporting is a very common way of gathering data for humans. a subjective issue is going to require gathering subjective reports. i dont see how you can come up with your 90% without self-reporting. what tool measures if a womans vagina has changed tightness? what makes your non-existent 90% data point so reliable?

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you not even trying? Or that bad in math/science or what's going on? Using arbitrary numbers to demonstrate the principle. It is possible that the size D = 1 m will cause dmg at f=50 Hz, then for the D = 2m even a lower frequency will be enough, say, f = 20 Hz. If we continue, we get to the size where even one repetition will be enough. Yes, it does mean that there could be different sizes for childbirth and sex because different frequencies. But it doesn't change the fact that the critical size for zero frequency can be in range of possible penis sizes. There's no data that suggests otherwise. Also, no, it's absolutely wrong that the size for childbirth will be smaller than the size for sex. The opposite clearly follows from what I was saying.

I don't remember if I did. I am pretty sure I described what I searched early on. Again, that's why I started commenting. Because I googled and saw that in like 90% cases it's never as tight. No, if 60% fail to recover that doesn't mean that the size is in the range of head sizes. Again, plastic deformations are not linear. It's very possible that the size after which 59% don't recover falls into the range of penis sizes.

I was talking about the model, i.e. we are talking how it works in principle. Even if it was only about reporting - it would be dumb to take self reports from women here. They are not the ones perceiving it, men who have sex with those women are.

No, that's not how I define it. I didn't decide to define it at all. The definition is already there. Deformation doesn't mean that there's no recovery. Inelastic deformation does. Yes, rules for deformations apply in this model. You just saying that they don't means nothing when they clearly do. Apply force ->deformation happens ->recovery either happens or doesn't. Mass doesn't matter, and obviously shape and size is basically almost the same thing or closely related. As for head position etc - that doesn't change the argument. Everything still works the same in principle, you just multiply the area or size by the cosine of the angle to get the effective area/size. They already do that when they calculate flux through area or irradiance over the area when the area is tilted.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I ask again, if a tendon can snap, disconnect completely, and recover 100% was it an elastic deformation? If yes, none of the rules youre talking about apply. Mass does matter. Orientation matters, shape of the rest of the body besides the widest point; (ie not size) matters. No one knows whether the relationship with size will be linear or not; no such information exists. You would need to demonstrate that. It doesnt work that way just because a rubber band works that way.

Tissue has some elastic properties like a rubber band, but recovery has nothing to do with those properties. If you want to define inelastic deformation in this context to include those other properties, you would actually have to address how healing works. What prevents healing? Its not size alone, its not even size primarily. Mass will matter. So will numerous other factors. It doesnt matter whether mass matters or not for inelastic deformations in rubber bands, it matters in childbirth, further demonstrating none of what youve stated so far about inelastic deformations will apply.

There is a range of babies head sizes. If 40% of women recover fully, and somehow isolate size as a variable by controlling for EVERYTHING else by only including the LEAST damaging orientation/mass/labor process etc, then the critical size will be within the range of head sizes. Whether its linear or not past a critical size wont matter. However, real world data isnt actually going to isolate childbirth characteristics for size only. Any real world data will include the most damaging orientations, labor complications, etc. and in real world data 2-48% of women suffer permanent issues. Your link didnt mention a %, and suggested a full recovery was easily achievable with the equivalent of some light physical therapy.

Even in the smoothest possible delivery, childbirth is more damaging than sex in all ways. Data that exists also includes complications of those other variables which makes it even more damaging than sex. So the critical size for sex will be significantly greater than the critical size for a babies head. If 40-50% of women recover fully after childbirth, the critical childbirth size will be within the common range of head sizes. Lets go on the lower end, 36 weeks would be 11-12 inches or so. The critical penis size would have to be bigger, since sex is less traumatic in all ways than childbirth. This is basically insane, not going to happen. Pretty sure even if a person like this existed, no one would willingly subject themselves to sex with something like that.

Where did anyone mention self reports from this place? These are results from studies. 2-48%, depending on the study. The end point must be a self report, since its a subjective issue with no objective tools for measurement. It doesnt mean it was a random survey on reddit.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes and do rules apply. What does tendon being able to recover (not always btw) has to do with vagina demonstrably not being able to fully recover? No, mass, orientation, etc don't matter. Take a physics course before you argue. You keep showing ignorance. I already explained how to account for shape and orientation. We do it in multiple fields of physics already. Again, all of this stuff doesn't qualitatively change anything. You are just talking about some coefficients or new terms in the formula. That doesn't change the principle.

It does have those properties unless the deformation is too great and stops being elastic, yes. What does recovery have to do with anything. We specifically not considering physical properties of the tissue but properties of the organ over a long period of time in a black box model. Do you not understand the difference? What prevents healing is the magnitude of the deformation. If enough cells were damaged, they won't recover. That can be attributed to size alone quite easily. Other parameters will simply (if at all) contribute to the "effective" size.

There is no range in baby sizes if those babies are of the same age as your table from before demonstrates. No, if 40% fully recovered (which they don't), that wouldn't mean that the size is in that range anyway. I already explained it before. Plastic deformations are not linear. No, 2-48% is not real data, it's WOMEN (not even men fucking them) reporting their experiences. You can throw this data away.

Sure, it is. Doesn't mean anything until the critical size is actually found. It may very well be smalled than the baby size and even close to a penis size. After all, sex is not just put in or out. It includes multiple frictions. Hundreds if not thousands per act of having sex.

Wym where did anyone mention self reports? You literally said " 2-48% of women have reported permanent sexual dysfunction caused by childbirth". Which btw as I just notice is not even related to what we are talking about. We aren't talking about sexual disfunction. We are talking about being less tight. Yeah you can gtfo with that data for sure at this point.

Either way, stop sidetracking. You said that count doesn't matter. That's false, it does as explained above. Trying to save it by saying that frequency matters more doesn't fix the argument. The higher the count, the more likely she is to encounter a partner with whom she would achieve the critical frequency. You said that it rebounds. That's false, too.

[–]grillopie1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

yes mass and orientation matter. you need to take a biology course. simple google search works also. you can “account” for it. that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter, they are independent variables. you said mass doesn’t cause deformation, size does. you’re wrong, in this case, both mass and orientation will change the ability to recover.

yes a tendon cannot always recover. but it can still potentially recover after being completely torn. whether it recovers depends on many OTHER factors beyond the degree of deformation, or the instantaneous applied force. a vagina is more similar to a tendon than a rubber band.

are you intentionally dense? tissue can be torn apart and recover. you decided to include this in your “model” for deformation. this means the ability to heal is a part of deformation, according to you. an organ is made up of tissue. yes, more cells being damaged will be associated with a greater inability to recover. its still more complicated than this, but this is the closest thing you’ve said to being true. mass, orientation, duration of labor all affect how many cells are damaged. all of those factors are much more conducive to damage in childbirth than sex, meaning the “effective size” for a babies head is much smaller than a penis.

count doesnt matter in any practical sense. a premature babies head is 11 inches. how often do you think women encounter men with a penis circumference of 12-13 inches

there is a range in baby head sizes. not all babies are born at the exact same gestational age. in the common range of gestational ages, there is a 2 inch difference. that’s more than the variation of the same distribution of penis sizes.

studies about permanent sexual dysfunction found that 2-48% of women have permanent laxity, or looseness, specifically related to sex. the range is different results from different studies. all of their end points will be self reports, it’s not a singular survey. you keep mentioning a nonexisent 90%. how much did you scrutinize that one lol? how is that hypotehtical data point so much better? please explain.

2-48% is more real than any data you’ve presented. you explained nothing, you don’t know if in this model they are linear or not. none of the facts that apply to rubber bands can be extrapolated. i also don’t see how being not linear is related. if 40% of women recover (probably at least that many do, especially according to your link where some light exercise is enough), that means 40% of babies heads didn’t cause permanent damage. the degree of damage of those other 60% would be related to its linearity or not, 40% of babies heads still failed to cause damage, meaning it will be somewhere in the common range of babies head sizes.

we can already estimate the critical size. if 40% of women recover, 40% of births failed to cause permanent damage. the critical size for childbirth is somewhere in the normal range of head sizes. i took a premature baby to be safe. a critical size for a penis is significantly bigger, since all other variables are much more damaging in childbirth. (counting the number of frictions is genuinely pointless, no idea where you’re going with that). how likely is n count going to affect the chance that a woman had sex with a penis with a diameter of 12 inches? that’s how much it matters. ie not at all.

at least sex frequency could potentially (still extremely unlikely) use another method of causing damage to make up for that.

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 7 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, they don't. Again, they can be accounted for and don't change anything in principle. Everything I said so far holds. But sure, if you have sources showing what you said - post the links. Google search or biology lectures of different schools (e.g. MIT has everything available) - anything works. I still doubt you understand what a model even means and how biology relates to it, since this model is physics-like because you started with rebounding rubber bands. But I'll read your links either way.

Sure, and if it recovers, then in our model it's an elastic deformation. And if there's any link between the likelihood of recovery and other factors - then we can get a function describing what happens. Yes, maybe it's more similar to a tendon. Idgaf about that. I'm simply arguing that what you said back when I joined the conversation is wrong. Until that is acknowledged, there's no reason to go anywhere else and to change the model. You said it rebounds like a rubber band.

None of that is relevant, as already explained earlier.

Of course it matters in a practical sense because the higher it is, the more likely the critical size-frequency is encountered. Size itself doesn't matter as you yourself said. Have to take the frequency into account. A premature baby passes through the vagina once. A penis passes multiple times, therefore it doesn't have to be as big as a baby to cause inelastic deformation.

As I explained using your own link, that range appears to be less than 4.5%. For a penis that's equivalent to a variation of about 1.8 mm.

That's absolutely irrelevant since the topic is not sexual dysfunction or any disfunction. The topic is tightness and whether it rebounds as a rubber band, which you claimed but didn't prove. And again, self-reports of women are irrelevant. If you want self-reports, only self reports of men sleeping with those women would be relevant, since those men "measure" the tightness.

No, it's not real at all. It's irrelevant because not only self-reported but also self-reported by women, and, as you said, they report "permanent sexual dysfunction", which is not what we are talking about.

No we can't, as I explained multiple times, after the threshold for inelastic deformation is passed, the process is no longer linear. Not to mention, that 40% women don't recover, they just don't have a permanent sexual dysfunction. But assuming that 40% women recover from 12 inches, that doesn't mean that a proportional percentage recovers from 3 inches. It could be 39.9% recovering after 3 inches. Do you not understand what nonlinear means? And again, the penis doesn't have to be 12 inches, you keep losing your own point. You said it yourself - if you pass an object many times, that would do more damage (unlikely to be true, but for the sake of this argument).

Yeah, it could. And if it did, you would still be wrong, as the count would still mean a person is more likely to encounter a size and frequency that would lead to an inelastic deformation.

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I don't know. There exist some critical diameter that's smaller than the diameter of a baby head that leads to it. I asked the same question to whoever proposed this view and so far he didn't answer. He said "it's just physics" but like I know it is, physics is what I do. So it's true in principle but what is the number and realistically do dicks reach that number? I am pretty sure that they don't or at least it's very rare.

What I'm telling you is that in principle it does work and you were wrong saying that it's either "men too" get deformations or if men don't then "women too" don't get them. But that doesn't mean that I agree with the other guy. I just correct everybody who is wrong if I know that they are wrong. You are completely wrong but he's also probably wrong (depending on the number which I don't know and I'm pretty sure he doesn't know either. I think he's saying it based on nothing other than his feels).

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_gecko1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Intelligent-Insight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]SyrusDrakeMan -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (53 children) | Copy Link

[–]KapoueBlue Pill Man[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, I agree not all women are hypocrites, it's why I try to emphasize portions like "a lot" or "some" but we can all fall victim to using "men" or "women" as an easy placeholder for "a lot."

But I will also argue that hypocrisy is not a bad thing, so long as you're just limiting it to your dating preferences. If a woman wants to only date a man who makes 100k while she's unemployed, and won't even offer to do housework. Is it hypocritical? Sure, but it's still a valid preference. Same thing with a high n-count man wanting a low n-count woman. Hypocritical? Of course, but still valid.

You can call it ridiculous, you can argue it will affect their dating prospects, you can even advocate for people to see it differently, but you can't argue they shouldn't have them or that they are a bad person for having them by shaming them just because it's hypocritical.

My problem with **some** women isn't that they may or may not have hypocritical dating preferences. That's fine. My problem is that they have a hypocritical view on what dating preferences are okay and what aren't for men and women, which is treating people differently outside of your personal dating context.

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74234 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74236 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74235 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (55 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Motor-Buy-6991Man 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 months ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyCertified Good Boy | Certified Puppyphile ♀ 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchA2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kroiike 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 12 points13 points14 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fancy-Scallion-6682Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit742311 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhh8 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk7 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74233 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]half_avocado335 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]half_avocado336 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]half_avocado334 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]half_avocado332 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]half_avocado331 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]half_avocado332 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Popeoath2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi5 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk4 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74233 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk5 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74231 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Lift_and_Lurk3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wtknight1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence81 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Wide-Illustrator29062 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence83 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk5 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk4 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence82 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygz3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74233 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygz4 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit74232 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (82 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygzintrusive thot ♀ 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygzintrusive thot ♀ 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygzintrusive thot ♀ 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygzintrusive thot ♀ 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ellie96SPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]esp_1123Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smv1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi2 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TankMurdoc 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]salphon1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]salphon1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]salphon3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]salphon5 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TankMurdoc -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TankMurdoc -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kidChad 38yo (Man) | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I find it interesting how one of the main insult men use for women is "being used for sex" like means she isn't worth anything, i don't know. Then if to discuss how men lie and use women for sex and how wrong it is there is instantly same men come and be offended and say arguments like "women like sex too", "we can just have sex", "it's the only way we can get it" and "we're both consenting adults".....So 1) they definitely understand what they are doing and more importantly they view women they are doing it to as someone trashy. 2) they want sex but despise women they have sex with, kind of uncomfortable position to have really 3) it's not women who lack something, it's them because it's them who can't get sex any other way, there was no intention of staying, she couldn't do anything to change his mind, he already came with intention of deceit, not ambivalent

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I find it interesting how one of the main insult men use for women is "being used for sex" like means she isn't worth anything, i don't know

Gender roles are a factor. Once dominance became vanilla even to Redditors, I think the “guy who uses people as a top” and “woman who is helpless as a bottom” leaked into other areas of culture, including as blind insults. Similar to how some would use “virgin” as an insult even though that realistically means nothing in daily discourse

Then if to discuss how men lie and use women for sex and how wrong it is there is instantly same men come and be offended and say arguments like “women like sex too", "we can just have sex", "it's the only way we can get it" and "we're both consenting adults"

This is mostly an observation from when I was in college at 18 and less up front with people/reckless as Hell, but women are really, really fucking hard to read, okay? And they don’t want me to be explicit. I 100% cannot walk up to a woman and say “Hey let’s fuck”. However, the frequent pattern you’d see in a bar with alcohol of “chat - compliment - invite back to my place - ask afterwards if she’d like to continue sleeping together” works in a LOT of contexts, and a lot of women would be okay with it if I did that. Or if I ignored them for months after I did that and asked to sleep with them again. Or broke up with them and then continued having sex with them. I just can’t say “100% of people are like this” because not everyone is, and reading the intentions of someone who wants me to be tactful is difficult if I want to influence them in a direction of what I want, as long as they’re neutral towards it (assuming they’re not the ones who initiate). If I ask a random woman what they’re looking for, then the most likely answer they’ll probably tell me is “I don’t know”.

they definitely understand what they are doing and more importantly they view women they are doing it to as someone trashy

Everyone is trashy if I remove their halo effects and call them ugly. The woman who flirts with me after getting to know me as a friend for a long time is trashy (some women hate it when unattractive guy friends do this). The woman who cold approaches me at Starbucks is trashy (some women hate it when unattractive guys interrupt them). The woman who dumped me after sex because she found out I was bisexual was trashy. The woman who took my phone into a cookie shop’s bathroom and snapped a picture of her bra was trashy. The woman who groped my ass was trashy. The woman cheating on her husband was trashy. The woman who was okay with me cheating was trashy. The women who complimented me in bed compared to their friends that I knew are trashy.

Everyone is trashy. People are whores. Just because I’m too much of a whore to ever say “no” also makes me pretty trashy, but of course I’m never going to be penalized in any way for that.

they want sex but despise women they have sex with, kind of uncomfortable position to have really

It’s easy to hate people if you get to know them

it's not women who lack something, it's them because it's them who can't get sex any other way, there was no intention of staying, she couldn't do anything to change his mind, he already came with intention of deceit, not ambivalent

Women do the same thing, but pretend they’re different. Sleeping with a guy and then dumping him because they don’t like him is common for women to do. If you want to see sex as “commitment”, then get to know the people you’re sleeping with first, and be okay with dating low libido men, and be okay with dating men you don’t like in bed. If a woman sleeps with me to “test chemistry”, then even though I’m 100% capable of screwing random people, I’m also not going to act like what she’s doing is a moral high ground of “commitment”. It’s still just fucking. She can be as shallow as she wants to be, but I’m allowed to do what I want too if I don’t like her for some other reason

[–]attendquoiwoman....pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TankMurdoc -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kidChad 38yo (Man) | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]No_Self_2165Red Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Desperate-Exit7423Black Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (72 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Manny didnt get KOd during that fight though he lost. But is he not in the GOAT convo though despite his losses? Is he not one of the most decorated boxers ever despite the Ls? Ls happen to everyone and they dont take away from your dubs. Great is great. A win is a win.

Youre asking me to come up with an imaginary convo with an imaginary woman just to satisfy you? Thats weird man. I bet thats what you want so you can come up with your own convo that would paint me in a narrative that fits your very thinly veiled agenda. Cmon now. Dunno how you cant fathom having a topic you wanna discuss and just letting vibes do its work to create an opening to talk about it.

If my "just vibes" answer aint cutting it for your weirdly specific and structured way of life then you jusy gotta live with it bud. Dunno what to tell ya aside from the fact I aint biting on your bait.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Still Manny. Dude seems chill and aint obnoxious like Floyd. Money at that level seems very negligible to me. A difference of a several millions when Im still worth that much is a-okay. Plus they both seem healthy enough. Manny seems more leaner than Floyd though so I'll take the abs and cuts.

Well you asked how I would go about it, not how I went about it. Theres a difference lol. For someone so seemingly structured I thought youd be more specific in your question. And I just asked yknow. And these questions would usually be in social settings where theres a bit of a relaxed vibe, alcohol helps. Speak-easy places and pubs usually. Be casual and cool, not how you depicted it earlier like I was some strung up inept guy.

"You got exes?" "Ever got with someone who wasnt a BF?"

Things like that. Results vary as I said, but I def got my dubs.

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_Lurk1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (43 children) | Copy Link

But what do you define as casual? Is it any sex without commitment?

I've had LTRs that started with sex on the first date. Was that casual sex or was the casualness negated by the fact that we later ended up in a relationship? What about sex on the third date? It's rare to be exclusive when that happens, so again there's no commitment. I don't think that's casual sex, but some may. What about a long-term fwb? That's a form of casual sex to some as well.

Asking number of exes won't always produce an accurate answer either. If a woman asked me point blank for a number, I would have trouble answering, because which were relationships and which weren't is a little ambiguous. Like if I went on a few dates with a girl over the course of a couple months, had sex multiple times, but we never actually got to the point of agreeing to be exclusive, is she an ex? I don't think so, but others may disagree.

When women have asked me about past relationships, I don't provide some specific count or rattle off a list of exes. It's more like "well my longest relationship was X, and I also dated Y and Z for a while". The actual number is downplayed because I can't give a precise number and I don't feel like discussing every past relationship.

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (42 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

They can have sex like this and claim it wasn't casual because they were trying for a relationship; they just so happened to not call the guy back or got ghosted by the guy or whatever. So now in their head, this one night stand doesn't qualify as casual sex.

I mean, I sort of look at it the same way, but it's not black and white. Even if I'm dating with the intent of a relationship, I consider a ONS casual sex. Like if we go on one date, sleep together that night, and never speak again, that's casual sex to me. But if we sleep together on the first date and continue dating afterwards, that's just normal dating to me and not casual sex.

Or if we go one a handful of dates, sleep together a few times, then decide that there's no long term potential, I just see that as normal dating.

I have no issue with casual sex, so I'm not trying to downplay what's casual. I just think there's a fine line between casual and regular dating.

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If you fuck a guy any number of times and it doesn't result in a relationship, it's casual imo.

By that definition, most of the sex I've had while dating seriously is casual sex. Most people you start dating won't turn out to be the one, no matter how good your intentions.

When I think of casual sex, I think of my ONSs and similar, most of which involved alcohol, a girl I had just met, and no expectation for future interaction from anyone. I would also include fwbs, since there's an explicit agreement of no commitment. But if I'm dating with the intent of finding a LTR, I don't consider that casual sex, even if it eventually doesn't work out.

You seem to be arguing that the outcome dictates whether sex is casual, rather than a person's intent. If I sleep with a woman after a date or two and end up marrying her, that wasn't casual because it resulted in a relationship. If we go our separate ways after a few more dates, it was casual because it didn't work out.

The "imo"part is important. As demonstrated by our differing definitions, opinions on what's casual vary. So when this guy asks a woman if she's had casual sex, her response will be based on her definition, not his, which makes the question sort of pointless. That was my whole point.

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_Council1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ta060120221 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Excellent_Badger123Purple Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]Plenty_Independence8 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_8560Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]stockingsinrainbootspills are brainrot - woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Complaint_85601 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]stockingsinrainboots1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]TankMurdoc 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_CouncilRed pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse789No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, proud slut, blue 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man -1 points0 points1 point 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]small-pp-small-smvDih Pilled Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi6 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppy4 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]N_Count_Council4 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]kalashhhhhhhhChad's WOMAN 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchARetired Promiscuous Woman 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchA3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Reasonable_Mouse7893 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Order of women I’d have trouble pleasing sexually, from easiest to hardest:

high N women: I wouldn’t be able to mess this up as a virgin, it’s like handling a balloon with cactus hands, she’s going to get off no matter what I do
inexperienced but high libido women: I’ll do everything and make some assumptions, but that’s easy anyway
low libido women: easy when they’re available, but there’s nothing I can do if they don’t want anything
women who have never had a partnered orgasm before: tends to be simple, but I might explore around
women who have never had an orgasm before: Difficult because I can’t tell if they’re faking it
dead bedroom: good fucking luck. It’s probably not the sex itself that’s the issue, but you have to have real people and analytical skills to resolve these situations

[–]BetterThanYouEasily-3 points 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]attendquoi1 point 9 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Title	N COUNTS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	4
Comments	1471
Date	October 25, 2025 4:00 PM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ofv66e/n_counts_weekly_discussion_thread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/n-counts-weekly-discussion-thread.1564961 https://theredarchive.com/post/1564961

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