Red Pill has trouble with basic social cues, and that is a bigger problem in the SMP than potential lack of attractiveness

AnUndecidedPill · 2017-01-14T20:05:49+00:00

Why is it that whenever fit and handsome Chads say stupid shit, the most lamest jokes, crude and sexist remarks, etc it never seems to be a hindrance in their ability to get laid? Women will laugh along with Chad no matter how lame, distasteful, or offensive his comments are. But of course whenever the average looking dork saying anything even remotely similar it's suddenly "Ugh today I got hit on by some sperg/creep".

Sorry, but I call bullshit on your assertion that these guys are 'creepy' by default. The fact of the matter is women selectively choose what's 'creepy' and what's not depending on the context/circumstances and by whom the comments are being made. Mr.Alpha Genetics gets a pass on rape jokes, Billy Beta gets scorned and reported for 'harassment' when he compliments a girl by calling her pretty.

It's all just a big double standard shit sandwich.

prodigy2throw · 2017-01-14T19:29:34+00:00

Talking about this stuff will always be creepy. We're talking about simple human behaviour and breaking things down and analyzing. It's akin to reading the Wikipedia page about human beings. Something about it just seems off.

washington_breadstix · 2017-01-14T20:53:20+00:00

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that men are attracted to fertile women. We discuss things on a deep enough level here that factors relating to human biology, psychology, etc. are bound to come up. It's only creepy if you use these terms casually in actual, real-life settings or when trying to approach women.

We're talking about the nuts and bolts of sexual attraction here. And fertility is certainly relevant to that.

willyhoo · 2017-01-14T19:23:32+00:00

Just because someone says something in one way on the internet doesn't mean that they're like that offline.

Okay whatever, I don't doubt that they give or at least used to give off that vibe in real life, but I don't think this is great evidence. I don't think people are listening to how their writing actually sounds online, it's not a popularity contest. I think most people would recognise that saying someone is 'fertile' in real life would sound creepy.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-01-14T20:34:48+00:00

why should men care if women who shouldnt be reading TRP in the first place--TRP which is men talking to men, about advice for men, from men, by men, for men--find what they say and the way they say it "creepy"?

who cares how women feel reading TRP, its not for them. they dont belong there.

quicklogaccount · 2017-01-14T19:22:27+00:00

This is not an RP issue. It's its members.

It is pretty canonical in both RP and PUA cultures to raise awareness of men for both the importance of such cues and to some repeated, memetical, ones.

But you get a lot of angry people validated in their anger, and not belittled for it, in RP.
With time, they (we) are bound to start being less angry and more accepting, and with that a process of calibration starts in which people learn how to notice those.

raginghamster · 2017-01-14T21:13:05+00:00

This thread is dumb because the entire context for the 'pill' subreddits is to discuss sexual strategy. There is nothing 'creepy' about it, and ironically the fact OP can't differentiate this context between subreddit analysis and real life interactions makes OP the one lacking basic critical thinking skills.

Obviously it's 'creepy' to tell a woman she is 'fertile' to her face at a bar. Unless the guy is hot enough to get away with it, of course.

DarkLord0chinChin · 2017-01-14T19:47:09+00:00

Dude, we understand pretty well why you feminists call it creepy. You are showing your lack of catching up on nuance if you think we really had no problem with the word.

So I guess you guys over at TBP are just that little bit autistic that you really think all Redpillers are just stinky fat neckbeards who believe in all these misogynistic things?

Btw, fertile is a very precise term to use when describing what makes a woman attractive.

blackheartblackmask · 2017-01-14T20:16:17+00:00

This would only be true if you could prove that RP doesn't work. Most RP converts claim it does (it did for me).

Otherwise you're just attacking BPers that are coming to RP for help

Calling people creepy is a BP shame tactic. Women respond to shame and weak men do, using creepy as some sort of stigma won't work on a real one. We know that masculinity is under attack and that using "creepy" is just another way to repress it.

Archwinger · 2017-01-15T00:18:14+00:00

It is a bit of a mistake to assume that the specific way guys academically discuss relationships and gender interactions on the internet is the way guys actually interact with women in the real world.

"Hi. You sure are looking tight and fertile today! Would you like to submit to my dominant nature? I am totally alpha, and I think you'd really enjoy some kinky sex with me. You're probably starting to tingle already!"

SetConsumes · 2017-01-14T19:07:13+00:00

You're creeped out about the word fertile because looking at women in such an animalistic way makes you uncomfortable and feels wrong to you.

This is your problem, not rp's.

NalkaNalka · 2017-01-14T20:23:50+00:00

Each time and place has it's customs. There is nothing inherently wrong or creepy about commenting on a woman's fertility, in fact not too many years ago it was common and socially accepted. However it's shunned these days so people need to use the language that will get them the results they want.

trudatness · 2017-01-15T00:39:35+00:00

You don't think fertility has anything to do with dating?

Just ask a very good friend of mine who had a hysterectomy in her early 20s whether or not it makes a difference.

She's 40 now, still single and not because she was an insufferable carousel riding whore either.

She's actually an Italian girl from NY, cute as a doll, educated, smart, cooks, cleans... The most loyal good girl as there is out there.

If a guy were to marry her - he would get sex whenever he wanted, his house would be model clean immaculate, gormet Italian food cooked for him all the time and get no static as long he was a good hard working man providing and taking care of business.

She's a good traditional girl with conservative values that men dream about bringing home to meet their families.

But she can't have any kids.

It's a sad thing - she really would have loved to have been a wife and mother.

Instead she meets guys and dates them for a while and things never get really serious. They find out she's sterile and after the novelty of not having to use a condom wears off generally just move on because she cannot give them children in the long term. The question Where is this going? gets asked and the answer is nowhere.

I've known a few ladies who have had fertility issues like this and they all had these kinds of problems.

So it's not weird that a man take that into deeper consideration. You better believe its a pretty huge deal.

Entropy-7 · 2017-01-15T15:14:50+00:00

The OP and hangers on seem to have a problem with context. In the thread in question, a commenter already put this argument to rest:

It's silly to pretend that TRP guys go around telling women how "fertile" they look in real life.

Instead of saying "I think men are programmed by evolution to be attracted to physical attributes that are correlated with fertility" he said "fertile". Everyone knows what he meant, but hey, it's a layup to call him "creepy" and reap the rewards of blue pill circlejerking.

Another blooper revealed their lack of understanding of social context:

Their internet posts are all we have to go on. They are probably creepy in real life too, but we can't assess that, can we?

I think regardless of the medium, being creepy reveals a lack of social acuity. Whether they openly discuss sexual theory IRL doesn't change that.

Transmigratory · 2017-01-14T22:11:33+00:00

Except, women, the ones who're actually desired, have tendencies to go with all sorts of guys regardless of their aptness with social cues... due to, well you guessed it: attraction.

You might dislike what they say, but it doesn't automatically make all of it incorrect.

squidracer · 2017-01-14T22:16:11+00:00

if you are going out on dates and do not understand why dropping certain words can be seen as creepy

Well I don't actually lead with"hey there! Your looking awfully fertile tonight!"

LewisCross · 2017-01-15T05:01:51+00:00

The kind of discourse you're complaining about is limited to Red Pill and purple Pill debate. No one talks in real life or in social situations about how "fertile " a woman appears to be. Even the socially awkward guys you bash and sadistically shit on everyday in here don't do that in real time verbal conversation.

Don't hurt yourself when you finally come down off your high horse.

speed3_freak · 2017-01-14T21:21:05+00:00

Just throwing a couple of things out there; RP is a philosophy, not a group of people. It happens to be a philosophy that is often sought after by guys that aren't historically good with women. Of course there are a lot of members of RP that come off as creepy. I'm sure that a good amount of them come off as creepy IRL. RP is there to try and help with that. The best way to decrease your overall creep factor is by self evaluation and trial and error. Both of those things are preached in TRP. Also, things you type in TPP and things you would say to a woman in real life probably don't correlate very much.

Battle-Scars · 2017-01-14T21:30:04+00:00

Actually, the word "moisture" is way creepier. Don't use it in any context, ever...

ZombieWifeFoCo · 2017-01-14T22:06:50+00:00

I think "tone deaf" hits the nail on the head. Either they don't know the implications of this language--e.g., if you are unable to conceive and carry a child, if you are not exactly 99% feminine in all things, if you think for yourself, then you are not worthy of male attention--OR they know exactly the implications.

Either one is fucked up. And it's one reason why I consider most red-pillers to be a lost cause. Either they ARE that ignorant and lacking in social IQ, or, they roll around in their misogynistic statements like a pig in mud.

despisedlove2 · 2017-01-15T04:35:19+00:00

Yawn.

Another transparent attempt to equate RP to incel.

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ifelsedowhile · 2017-01-15T00:16:42+00:00

as usual when someone on TRP says something questionable, all TRP is to blame. when BP or feminists say something questionable, it's strawman or no true scotsman as a feeble justification.

absurdlivingghost · 2017-01-15T02:45:40+00:00

I won't dispute that listing "fertile" as a desirable characteristic is creepy, and would probably be a deterrent to most women, but I'm really skeptical that it's a bigger problem than "potential lack of attractiveness." Choosing all the right words and emanating charisma isn't worth much if you're physically unattractive.

(Source: am ugly person with large vocabulary often described as "charismatic")

[deleted] · 2017-01-15T03:04:47+00:00

Squeamish about "creepy" things?

[deleted] · 2017-01-15T20:24:05+00:00

Lift. you'll stop being so jittery and more a little smoother. Plus muscles give you a better buffer against creepiness

Approach often, during the day. Note her body language, do the same approach every time, so you can see when you get receptive, or avoidant behaviours from a girl. eventually, you calibrate your approaches, because you notice some ways of carrying yourself get good reactions, and some bad. You stop doing the bad, learning through repitition

AM/AA/Fogging, so you don't fail those 'tests' she gives to test your fitness, and establish you aren't bothered by a wee little girl.

And you're not faking it till you make it, you are failing fast, and often, so you can eventually stop failing.

Then it clicks, you just get it. maybe in a month, maybe a year. by then you've become more fit, better at conversation (because you've been talking more) and better at reading social cues (because you're focused on them, instead of waiting to talk)

And you treat it like a game. I wonder what I can say and get away with? Whats the overton window with my interactions? You already know what placation gets you, so you try the other side.

You say more and more outlandish shit, just to see if you can get her to leave in a huff (and I know everyone here knows women who do this) and find out how deep that rabbit hole goes.

And then some dudes on a keyboard who pretend they are 'naturals' call you misogynist, because they couldn't fathom, you can call a girl a cunt, and she will giggle and touch your arm. you grab her by the pussy, and she actually likes it.

Finally, if you walk into a guys life (Field reports) at any point before the end, it looks like a horrible man, doing horrible things, on the spectrum.

No one wants to know how the sausage is made, they just want to eat.

Now, disclaimer:

some guys don't want to put in the work. And there is a shit ton of work in the above. They want to malcontent on the internet. Can't do anything about that. Their purpose is to make the space non-female friendly. You girls will fuck it up, always have (MMSLP forums etc)
Some guys already got that down. The problem was women can be shitty, and coming to terms with why is the issue. It makes you mad to see machavellian dick warmers walking the earth, you want a just world, but come to terms with the reality. IT's OK, it's on a spectrum, find one on the left side of it and keep your eyes open. they are the ones who best teach game, and they vent often, but it's a reservation, instead of lashing, and probably sounds the worst, because it's true.
A minority find that male spaces are disappearing. Need a bit of NAWALT realignment, but generally have seen women at their worst. They got game, and know how to stay in shape. Every guy in their life is driving others around them off a cliff. "Happy wife, happy life!" types living quiet desperation in their man caves, so the wife can keep an eye on them. They need a kick in the ass, and some dudes to chuck shit at. This one scares women, because wives used to have it on lock, and the man discovers the tiger still has claws. She smartens up, and acts right, or she doubles down and kicked to the curb
Some guys want to keep their blue world, but think of this as parlor tricks. They try, and fail, because they ditch it all when they have the prize, and typically, women will act like women. Then they blame TRP, and lash out before deleting their account

The majority of new posters are 1. 80/20 rule, TRP has a lot of churn and turnover. We can circlejerk over how bad that 80 percent is all day, because negative people do that, and build fucked up mental models.

The men? They focus on the 20%, and are building better men, and a world for them to live in. they laugh, and occasionally shitpost for fun, otherwise, chug along, building groups for men, content for them to digest, and building their empires.

meditr · 2017-01-14T23:54:33+00:00

I mean, yeah. TRP is a sub that adds a narrative onto why you need to act in ways that otherwise exude confidence (not the parts about being a jerk, the parts about lifting, having hobbies, and not making another person a part of your life) because these people seem not to get it otherwise.

Title	Red Pill has trouble with basic social cues, and that is a bigger problem in the SMP than potential lack of attractiveness
Author	SkinnySweaty
Upvotes	33
Comments	324
Date	January 14, 2017 7:00 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5nz2e1/red_pill_has_trouble_with_basic_social_cues_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/red-pill-has-trouble-with-basic-social-cues-and.270631 https://theredarchive.com/post/270631

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