What would it take to change your mind?

treadmarks · 2024-02-17T00:27:06+00:00

I am mostly red pill. I'm going to skip the obvious answer "data and facts need to be different."

What would change my mind is if, when I speak with women in a polite, respectful or possibly shy manner, it would not be met with disinterest or repulsion.

Also if people actually read bios on dating apps and didn't just insta-swipe based on the first photo.

MikeArrow · 2024-02-16T22:51:13+00:00

To be honest I don't really understand all this pill stuff. I picked purple because it seemed the most applicable.

From my teen years to when I first got a girlfriend, I tried to do the 'right' thing. Y'know, never hit on a woman, ever. Never make them uncomfortable in any way. Just completely shut the idea of sex out of my mind entirely. That's definitely not red but probably closer to blue.

What changed was the six years I spent alone after my first and only relationship ended. It's clear that just being a nice, polite, friendly guy is not going to get results. I need to figure out something else. That's where the red starts to creep in.

My body is not attractive, I need to fix that. My personality is not attractive, I need to fix that too.

What pill is there for "I'm just completely undesirable?" well, that's where things start to get a little more black.

statsfodder · 2024-02-17T00:14:29+00:00

Was blue, life happened so changed to red, saw the stupid and became more purple ... now I think both red and blue are idiots while being purple is a weak cop out, really just trying not to get shot by the other 2 pills ... therefore I pick green because I'm cynical and jaded now.

So my mind has been changed a few times.

Bottom line is the ego, the entitlement and delusion of the red/blue is the biggest issue. once ACTUAL adult conversation can be had, then maybe improvements to society will happen... until then, I'm happy watching everyone sling mud at each other, screaming they are right..

Oh and this very much includes the mods that use a ban hammer like a toddler who hits everything they don't like..

Dr_Click_Click_Boom · 2024-02-16T23:15:16+00:00

I participated in speech & debate in college. One thing my coach/professor stressed when structuring a speech was to (1) tell them what you're going to say, (2) say it, then (3) tell them what you said. Very effective.

Prior to college I was in the military. One thing my commanders and senior noncoms stressed was the importance of saying what you're going to do then doing what you said. Very effective. Even more effective was simply doing what needed to be done without saying a word. Just let your actions speak for themselves.

Prior to joining the army I was raised by an old school father who himself grew up during the great depression. One thing he always told me, long before Rollo Tomassi ever wrote a book or Richard Cooper ever uploaded a video was "ignore what people say and watch what they do". Very effective.

What would it take to change my mind? Two things:

I'd like to hear a woman say she likes qualities a, b and c in a man then introduce me to the man she's dating or married to who actually has qualities a, b and c.
I'd like to hear a woman say she's turned off by qualities x, y and z in a man then see no or very few instances of men with qualities x, y and z in her dating history.

Edit: this needs to happen in real life, not on social media.

meisterkraus · 2024-02-16T23:39:08+00:00

Reviewable data and some level of it working personal depending on the specific point.

SsRapier · 2024-02-17T03:03:43+00:00

Well, firstly ill have to state my general beliefs since i do not fit exactly any pill

I believe in Red Pill ideas of lookism being true, specially face and height

I also believe that personality can be important and that it is better to be a good person rather than not

No i dont think less of women

My main fundamental problem is that i always came in losing in life. And m it rooted into my brain that im an useless ugly loser.

The other big part of the problem is that all my beliefs only got stronger with my experiences.

I really wished i knew how to change my views because i really hate myself

Sessile-B-DeMille · 2024-02-16T22:39:18+00:00

I still don't have good handle on what exactly red pill beliefs are. Does anyone have some sort of consensus as to what they are? It seems like every time someone here mentions a red pill belief someone else says that it isn't correct.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2024-02-16T23:29:04+00:00

I'm blue pill.

From the redpill sub's sidebar "How to train your bitch":

Another carry-over from the seduction community. The compliance test is a method for gauging a woman's desire to have your esteem and validation.

Compliance testing begins by making small requests of a woman. "Give me your hand, I'd like to read your palm". "Pass me that [X], would you?" "Sit here, won't you? I'd like to ask you something..." as you pat the seat next to you. These are all examples of simple, low-level compliance tests to judge her willingness to follow your lead.

Compliance testing is a hook. If she takes the bait consistently and with the clear intent of satisfying you, then you can consider transitioning.

Then later on:

And while AWALT (all women are like that - e.g. hypergamous and susceptible to game), the truth is that NAMAA (not all men are alike). Men are numerous and varied, as are their desires and interests. To find a woman who is perfectly suited to YOUR desires and interests is impossible.

If all women are susceptible to game, then there wouldn't be any "If she takes the bait consistently and with the clear intent of satisfying you..." Red pill only works on women with low self-esteem. It's why the first step is trying to cause low self-esteem by negging.

If you have to try to change someone for your methods to work, then they're not actually effective. If the only way the door-to-door vacuum salesman only gets sales is with dog-owning households, he's not actually a great salesman. And if your methods only work on people with low self-esteem, and you effectively filter out anyone it won't work on, then AWALT is obviously false. It's like trying to claim hypnotism has a 100% success rate. That would only be because it only works on the people who are susceptible to it.

If AWALT then negging wouldn't be necessary in the first place. It'd work on all of us because we'd all have low self esteem. If AWALT then baiting us or escalation of tactics wouldn't be necessary, and "training" wouldn't be necessary. We'd all just naturally want to do whatever men tell us to do.

Men deliberately manipulating women is not reflective of women's nature. So for me to change my mind, women would need to do these things and be this way completely independent of men. If this is our natural state, then obviously we'd be like this on our own and men wouldn't have to "condition" us into it. The "natural order" of women doesn't require conditioning or manipulation.

So for me to join the red pill side, I'd need actual evidence that AWALT. Not "if I only pursue women with low self-esteem or manipulate them into having low self-esteem then my tactics work." "All" and conditions are mutually exclusive.

Bikerbats · 2024-02-16T22:39:30+00:00

That's pretty simple: The path I was on would have had to have failed me. I'm no doubt blue leaning, and have always been so because it worked for me.

SillyMushroomTip · 2024-02-16T23:55:23+00:00

I can't go back, I've seen and experienced so much that no matter what people say to me is irrelevant.

Last-Application-860 · 2024-02-17T02:48:05+00:00

I guess I'm purple/leaning black.

I prob would have to get some success to change my mind, or at least get some hint of attraction from a woman I'm interested in to feel better.

And I guess meeting someone/people that may have had my experience also. For example, people tell me that it is not that odd that I am 22 and have no experience with the opposite sex, but the majority of men I meet who are my age/around my age have a lot of experience.

Even in HS, my friend group was getting their first kiss/losing their virginity when I was just alone the entire time, so I don't find platitudes about love eventually happening comforting.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-02-17T03:08:40+00:00

Red-black, would convert the day I see short average dudes being as popular as tall handsome ones in dating market.

Puzzleheaded_Card_71 · 2024-02-17T00:05:12+00:00

Red pilled and nothing can change it because it is based on my personal experiences. Many red pilled men wish the blue pill ways was how the world works, but it isn’t.

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-02-16T22:39:51+00:00

Red: The only thing that would change my views would be if every woman's brain structure miraculously changed overnight

harmonica2 · 2024-02-16T23:35:02+00:00

Purple pill I think. My current relationship seems like a total blue pill situation so it's hard to tell therefore which is the much more common one.

grown_folks_talkin · 2024-02-16T23:59:00+00:00

Purple, but might go red if I was around many women openly sharing Mr. Alpha. I have actually been in a circle like this, but it was just one. Even then, the women were jostling to be #1, not content to be just on the depth chart.

Might go bluer if it was proven that over the ages of puberty-to-55 women spend just as much energy repressing horniness as men.

wtknight · 2024-02-17T00:43:06+00:00

Women would all have to become bad people for me to change my mind and become Red Pill, because I'm not a misogynist.

SmallSituation6432 · 2024-02-17T01:04:12+00:00

I would never describe myself as blue pill only because the burden to differentiate is on TRP since that is the movement that specifically tries to differentiate itself as being "the truth/realistic". To me, that means that any shared ideas like "improve your looks and social value to succeed at dating" are irrelevant to choosing, because they are not what differentiates TRP from the mainstream. The only argument that would cause me change my stance would have to be based the ideas that are different.

With that preamble, what are the ideas that are different TRP from the mainstream?

1) A focus on evolutionary psychology with a broadly deterministic interpretation. Observably false and reductionist.

2) Traditional values of gender identity and social structure. Arguable, but not something I would ever agree with easily.

3) A broad understanding that gender equality has been achieved, and further advancement of women's interests actively harms the interest's of men. Observably false.

4) Alpha/beta dynamics. Absolute garbage with almost no basis in science.

If someone wants to add to that list go ahead, though I will say I'm letting the evolutionary psychology point do a lot of heavy lifting here. These elements on their own are not necessarily bad, but when they are combined and influence the understanding of each other the effect is that these things that differentiate TRP are what also cause it to be very misogynist.

So, not only would an argument have to be based on those points, but also not be misogynist, because any conclusion that is misogynist is ethically objectionable and I wiould not accept.

For those of you that are going to say the gender equality point isn't TRP because its not about dating, my only response is that if you are in a group where overwhelmingly the people in that group agree about something and speak about it, then that thing is part of the group's beliefs.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-02-17T02:28:14+00:00

Nothing because I don't want my mind changed. The only way for my mind to change is literally for women to change their behavior in real life.

DigEnvironmental3750 · 2024-02-17T16:39:01+00:00

If any pill would give advice that actually worked I'd become a follower immediately

odeacon · 2024-02-17T18:22:58+00:00

A switch in focus from blame , to solution

Barely-moral · 2024-02-17T02:53:38+00:00

I will believe in the blue pill perspective the day the majority of the male population can get sex/relationships just by "being themselves" without any extra effort spent into "self improvement"/providing value.

operation-spot · 2024-02-16T23:52:33+00:00

If the red pill could stop advocating for the subjugation of women I would be more inclined to hear them out and I think of the blue pill as overall positivity so I already have that. I think a lot of folks think being depressed is a virtue but it’s not, it’s just sad.

just_a_place · 2024-02-16T23:53:52+00:00

I'm red pilled and it would take literal brain damage for me to change my mind because the definition of being Red Pilled is being awake and aware and SANE about the real world.

The only way back to the delusion is through brain damage.

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-02-17T04:36:33+00:00

Nothing can change my mind on the nature of women because their behavior is observable at a societal scale.

operajunkie · 2024-02-16T22:47:47+00:00

A lot of self proclaimed red pill men strike me as terrible people honestly so I’d never want to be in that camp.

dabbydab · 2024-02-16T23:34:15+00:00

Blue and I guess if I saw FAR fewer normal relationships between normal people it would change my mind. If I go anywhere that people tend to show up in couples (company holiday party, synagogue, whatever) it's just regular-ass people with other regular-ass people. Not only the top 20% of men or huge age gaps or whatever else.

Safinated · 2024-02-16T23:19:40+00:00

Ignore men’s behavior

Because the red pill only cares about what women do

AnnoKano · 2024-02-17T00:50:42+00:00

I would have to meet a self proclaimed red pill man in the real world who wasn't a total embarassment. Needless to say, I'm not expecting to change my mind anytime soon.

Psyteratops · 2024-02-17T01:33:19+00:00

I don’t really think anything can ever convince me because the fundamental move that red pillars make from describing general trends in romantic outcomes to using these trends to justify their current situation is NEVER warranted. There are far too many confounding factors to ever use sociological data in the way they are trying to use it.

Financial-Pudding134 · 2024-02-16T23:14:34+00:00

I would never want to be RP ever in my time on this planet.

Who the fuck wants to spend their existence viewing the opposite sex as an adversarial shady manipulator only there to conquer and dominate—instead of just living a beautiful life with someone you love, respect, and go through your time here with?

apresonly · 2024-02-16T22:44:34+00:00

i gotta meet a wholesome red pill man and play 21 questions with him to my satisfaction

if he remains wholesome after the questioning, my worldview would be rocked and i would very much listen to what he has to say

i think red pill men do not aspire to be wholesome (good people) who care for the health of their community and who genuinely want society to work for everyone.

since i, a feminist, want those things and find it pretty easy to talk about how my beliefs would benefit everyone, i would want that same standard to be met.

Breaker1617554 · 2024-02-17T01:43:12+00:00

Neither, not part of the dating game. Too old, never dated so don’t know how.

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More_Suggestion_2425 · 2024-02-16T23:02:23+00:00

I’m here because I don’t understand either side and neither make sense to me. I just recently found this place thinking the people, viewpoints and such would make more sense. Conclusion so far is it kind of does just marginally. Does this make me a true purple piller? 😌

Sutanrei · 2024-02-17T00:17:47+00:00

Red pill and hopefully nothing.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-02-17T00:29:03+00:00

I was redpill but have become more “blue” over time. What changed my mind were two things:

Life experience
Expanding my understanding of history

StupidThrowaway3783 · 2024-02-17T01:07:50+00:00

When i see smb get sth and be liked for being a whiny bitch

Zabadoodude · 2024-02-17T02:15:31+00:00

I think being totally in one camp or the other is silly. On individual issues, it's personal experiences, and observing what other people I see irl do, and the results they get.

Kaminaxgurren · 2024-02-17T08:49:26+00:00

For me, I think it'd be as simple as meeting a girl I actually fairly effortlessly just get along with that turns into love. It would take not having to get my hopes up that things will turn around for me, ever again, and still seeing them turn around.

ExternalBarracuda292 · 2024-02-17T09:05:25+00:00

I don't think my mind can really be changed because I feel it's clear that both TRP and TBP offer a version of reality that is too simplistic to properly explain the extremely complex nature of interpersonal relationships.

When it comes to TRP, I actually think a fair amount of what they say is actually right... for an extremely small subset of women who use dating apps like tinder to find hookups. These types of apps attract a specific clientele who have certain preferences, however, the vast majority of people would never use these kinds of apps, and their generalizations do not hold at all for those outside of this specific context.

I suppose my views are closer to TBP overall, though it's a more specific version of it. I think the advice to "just be yourself" is generally well-intentioned, but I would phrase it more as "be the best version of yourself and don't try to be someone you're not". For example, from a young age, I realized I was never going to be TRP's definition of an alpha male. I'm short, unmuscular, and somewhat feminine in appearance. Being a "manly man" was clearly out, so I figured I might as well focus on being a "pretty boy" instead. And this actually worked fairly well, I've had reasonable success with women either asking me out or offering me casual sex, which is because women have different tastes, just like men do. I'm also unreasonably picky, so I've turned down the vast majority of them, which is probably part of the appeal. I also spend a lot of time honing my skills and knowledge, as I'm a much bigger believer in self-improvement than would typically be associated with TBP, this is more of a TRP thing, it's just that their opinion about the specific traits you must improve is too limited.

That said, I am also notably less of a feminist compared to typical TBP. For example, I agree with TRP that marriage is generally unfavourable to men, largely because most marriage laws were written to protect women back when most women didn't work and were financially dependent on their husbands (a worthwhile goal), but have not been updated for the modern world where virtually all women have their own jobs. I feel like, generally speaking, if one partner (of either gender) makes the choice to stay at home to take care of the children, they should be entitled to half the wages made by the other person, but if both parents work, no form of asset distribution is necessary upon divorce. Of course, child support should still be paid if one parent has full custody, but I also feel it should generally be shared between both partners unless they are somehow unfit to do so. Hence my overall beliefs tend to fall more in the middle.

MisterFunnyShoes · 2024-02-18T08:42:57+00:00

If reserved, respectful do-gooders were swimming in pussy, while high school quarterbacks nationwide couldn’t get matches on tinder.

Few_Advertising3430 · 2024-02-22T20:11:09+00:00

I am Blue Pill by principle and experience. People in general, so that includes women, don’t have to have partner or when they choose a partner they may choose someone they have a connection and are attracted to. Sometimes attraction is based on shallow factors but humanity is not perfect.

I had been ignored by men until my late twenties. Maybe I was introverted, I did not care about my looks until later, it’s hard to know why we are not appealing as a partners. I was sad but I realized that nobody owes me a relationship, I have to add to someone’s life to be in one.

As long as someone is respectful to you they can choose a partner as they want. They want someone 6 feet 8in, they want DD boobs, it does not matter.

Title	What would it take to change your mind?
Author	Mentathiel
Upvotes	6
Comments	197
Date	February 16, 2024 10:29 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1aslmei/what_would_it_take_to_change_your_mind/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-would-it-take-to-change-your-mind.1245590 https://theredarchive.com/post/1245590

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