Why do women hate male only spaces?

girlwriteswhat · 2013-08-26T20:23:41+00:00

I took a stab at figuring out why here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE

baskandpurr · 2013-08-26T20:57:42+00:00

It's a kind of two-way street here. The reason they like women-only spaces is a lot different than the reasons they hate men-only spaces.

In a women-only space, they don't have to be feminine, and don't have to worry about guys hitting on them. That's a fairly legitimate grievance, IMHO. Men, by nature, tend to pursue women, often aggressively. Having a space that lets them avoid those unwanted advances is entirely understandable, and acceptable.

They hate male-only spaces because men use those spaces in a different way than women use their women-only spaces. Women use their space as an area where they can do the same thing as they would in co-ed spaces, but without the sexual tension. Guys, on the other hand, will tend to shoot the shit and bond, and potentially impart a benefit to our new found friends, be it business or other. It's how we, as males, interact and form relationships.

Women figure that if they are excluded, they won't get that kind of bonding and won't be afforded that kind of benefit. Unfortunately, what they don't realize is that, in fact, we won't bond with them in the same way (friendly, plutonic bonding), even if they are included. When women are around, we don't tend to bond, but change to a mode more akin to chasing women by becoming competitive. Even our friendships with other guys tend to suffer with women around. It's in our nature. Next time, watch how your group of friends interacts when its just men versus when there is a woman around, especially if there is a single woman (or single women). It's a different dynamic.

I would prefer to see male-only spaces as well. I don't really care if there are female-only spaces, but to have a double standard by eliminating male-only spaces is, to me, just ridiculous. Guys do too much fawning over women, so I want a space where my friends can't invite women that they then fawn over. I was in a night class that was only men recently; we all chatted and were quite friendly. One day, a cute girl appeared in class and all of the guys became semi-literate cave-men, chasing after the girl. Everything was a competition, even with the married guys. It would be nice to have spaces where we don't have to deal with that type of female-driven competition, and can just get on with being friendly with our fellow male-counterparts.

I don't necessarily think that women don't use their women-only spaces to bond with other women. In fact, they may do it a lot. But their motivation for wanting a women-only space is not driven by that factor.

Thats my take on it.

railroadwino · 2013-08-27T01:22:55+00:00

Women with a controlling nature feel threatened by male only spaces because the bonding and support that men offer each other in such a space is a threat to men's emotional dependence on women. These are the toxic women who think that it has to be about them all of the time. They also don't like the thought of men expressing and supporting opinions that support men. It's much harder to feel like you have power over certain people when those people aren't emotionally isolated and are allowed a space to discuss their own issues with each other.

Notice how you can see this behavior on Reddit in the form of shitredditsays. You can see quite a few users complaining about posts related to male issues and the comments and jokes directed at women (the ones directed at men are ok to them).

Many women also hate men's only golf clubs, even though there are plenty of women's only golf clubs.

This behavior is very obvious in Adria Richards, who hates that the tech field is mostly men. She hates it enough to react with extreme spite when two men were sitting behind her making jokes about stuff that had nothing to do with her. That was her way of lashing out at a male space and asserting control (though luckily it blew up in her face).

It's obviously very hypocritical. All in all, it's really a very childish, immature, and somewhat hateful reaction to male spaces.

nwz123 · 2013-08-27T00:09:03+00:00

Because they don't really understand what male spaces are for. They think they're 'old boys clubs' where they exclude women just for being women. They don't realize that the real reason men's clubs exist (or in many cases, existed) is because the second there's a woman amongst the men, male bonding starts to be pushed aside in favour of male competitiveness.

'Chilling out with your bros' will rapidly transform into seeing who can get buddy-buddy with the lady. The men who don't particpate in this often come across as misogynistic or gay depending on how they choose to avoid joining the competition, and the lengths to which they might go to dissuade others from joining the competition.

Putting even one woman in the room will change the dynamics of male bonding instantly, especially in a room of single men.

'Normal' male socializing in the presence of women only really starts to become possible when those women are all the wives of the all of the men, and even then, the men will still likely prefer to all wander off together and leave their wives together.

That is my observation, based on my personal experiences.

I don't think there's a man alive who hasn't watched a woman 'steal' a friend, or turn a group of friends into rivals.

BeginnerSociologist · 2013-08-26T21:24:27+00:00

Women never seemed to have much of an issue of it in the past (work was basically a male-space though, I suppose, so they didn't have much choice).

To be honest I think it is a natural conclusion from the rubbish feminist spout. If feminists declare loudly about "patriarchy," about "boy-only clubs," about the power that men hold to the exclusion of women (while shouted by feminists, these ideas have become part of our social narrative): then it seems only natural that you would hate male spaces.

EvilPundit · 2013-08-26T19:21:31+00:00

Feminists hate male-only spaces - but they love women-only spaces.

Most women are not feminists.

hankhankhank · 2013-08-26T20:15:04+00:00

i'd posit that it might have something to do with the demonisation of masculinty. a room full of something you consider 100% toxic has got to be frightening, don't you think?

Wawoowoo · 2013-08-26T22:29:47+00:00

I have something to say about this on a personal level. I have a friend who frequently expresses this. There are two major reasons she doesn't get invited. First is that she pretty much was treated like one of the guys, and I don't think she was treated any differently from me. However, that changed rather quickly once she started making passes at my friends. They got creeped out and didn't really want to be put in that position for awhile. Second of all, our interests are different. She would complain about not being invited to do things like play Mario Party or Risk, even though she has no interest in those things. If inviting her along was mandatory, we would never get to to the things we wanted to do. I've tried to respond by asking her one time when she went out with her female friends if she was blowing me off "because of my penis", but I don't think she got the complete message. I think it's really hard to come out and say "you're different and there's nothing anybody can do about it".

2013-08-26T21:42:01+00:00

http://counterfem.blogspot.com/2010/08/colonization-of-male-space.html

Feminism, in the nearly half-century of its systematic cultural revolution, has worked doggedly and persistently to erode male space in every possible form. From the beginning, it has been a central feminist project not only to whittle down the amount of time that men spend together in the absence of women, but to fragment the continuity of such time, to break it into smaller and smaller chunks, and to cast the very idea of it into disrepute.

It is a classic recipe. If you aim to take away the power of a targeted group, you must undermine their solidarity by making it progressively more difficult for them to bond with each other. And if you fragment the continuity of their time together, what bonds they might form will be correspondingly fragmentary, and accordingly ineffectual.

The colonization of male-only workspaces and institutions, under the convenient banner of "equality", "ending discrimination" or the like, is only the most commonly understood and popularly visible 'wedge' manifestation of something that runs far deeper—but the politically motivated double-standard is clear enough when you consider how many female-only clubs, jobs and other settings will pass without a murmur where the male equivalent would soon come under hostile scrutiny or even litigation.

Clearly, the ruling energy in society has dictated that women are welcome to be alone with other women, but that men ought not assemble in the absence of female supervision or female presence in some form. For the colonization of male space means not simply that male-only time has dwindled in quantitative terms, but that qualitatively speaking, the likelihood of female influence or even intervention has proportionately grown, and now throws a shadow over such occasions.

... In the feminist war, men and maleness are under attack. And if men collectively cannot grow a robust, inwardly articulated community of interest among themselves, endowed with durable focal points and folkways, then each man as an individual will be more and more thrown upon his own devices, hence a sitting duck. Hang together or hang separately: such is bonding; such is solidarity.

JaxPrat · 2013-08-27T02:13:57+00:00

Did you try asking them?

Good luck! (If you're not back within a week we'll send a search party..provided we can find volunteers...)

nwz123 · 2013-08-26T20:12:31+00:00

Maybe they're afraid men will feel free to discuss certain issues if women aren't around.

Everything_Is_Rape · 2013-08-26T20:17:57+00:00

Any place they're excluded from is a place they can't be raped. Feminism needs as much rape as possible to justify existing, so excluding them is itself a kind of rape.

shikima81 · 2013-08-27T00:14:29+00:00

What's a "male only space"?

Serious question, I've never heard of this term before. Only thing I can think of is a locker room or a bathroom but nobody hates those, right?

JakeDDrake · 2013-08-27T00:01:25+00:00

I personally see it as incredibly patronizing and awful.

Let's say my girlfriend hated me going over to my one friend's place, because the one time she went over there, she was offended by my friend's off-colour language he used to refer to women. Now, if I were to go anywhere when he's present (but my girlfriend's not), it's reasonable for her to worry that he'll be saying those things once again, but now I no longer have her shining influence over me, to keep my man-brain from succumbing to such vile barbarism. She'll not want me going over any more, because she's worried my friend will be a bad influence on me.

Now, this is all hypothetical of course, but it's one way that someone can dislike a male-only space. In this example, my girlfriend's doing it out of concern for me, but isn't taking account of the fact that I'm an independent, rational person, who can decide for himself what language to use or not use. Thank god she's not really like that!

It seems that the reason Feminists hate male-only spaces is because, like in the example with my girlfriend, they believe those spaces to be "bad influences" on men. Except instead of it being one specific person like in my example, it's all men. At least, it's all men provided there's no woman present to moderate and direct the discussion in politically correct ways.

This is because, to lots of Feminists who adhere to the dogma of Toxic Masculinity, men are weak-willed, and will eventually fall to the heresy that is Masculine Thinking if there's nobody constantly around to bring them to the light.

Deansdale · 2013-08-27T08:02:17+00:00

Evolutionally speaking women depend on men's resources, also meaning they depend on men's attention. Any one woman can only be sure of her man's investment in her as long as she has his attention all the time. This is why it's dangerous if her man goes out without her, let it be a guys' night out or a golf session. Everything guys do must be about women!

OTOH women are often envious of men's accomplishments, the respect and status they have earned. What they forget is that these actually have to be earned, and aren't just given. When a woman wants to be a part of "a boys' club" she wants the respect and fame that goes with it.

These two factors are behind the collective efforts of women to get in on everything men might do. They feel either left out or imperiled by men keeping to themselves. But of course female-only spaces are fine and dandy - they don't feel left out or imperiled by those, so, what could be wrong with them?

2013-08-26T22:21:10+00:00

Because women don't like men having the ability to do and say as they please without the PC police standing at attention at all times making sure everything they say and do is appropriate and will not offend the delicate sensibilities of the womenfolk.

tallwheel · 2013-08-26T21:24:29+00:00

I want women to be a part of this Mensrights conversation.. Not excluded.. I actually quite like women .. but I don't have to agree with feminism and I want them to see my perspective. It's really kind of hard for them to see my perspective.. if they can't.. get it?

rightsbot · 2013-08-26T19:10:20+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

rottingchrist · 2013-08-27T03:26:32+00:00

Entitlement.

What they accuse everyone else of.

2013-08-27T07:12:59+00:00

Here's my theory:

Women, being all around more socially sensitive than men, feel the emotions associated with exclusion more intensely than do men and are more desirous of personal status, much of which they derive from associating with those who already have high status. When men see women bond in groups, the default is that they will not care. When women see men bond in groups, the default is that she will care about not being included if the group is high status or has a positive dynamic (and because of this it probably high perceived status as well).

This explains both the anecdotes of the disgruntled woman who is excluded from a group of laughing, merry men, and also the greater trend of women encroaching upon previously male-dominated spheres. There are probably more layers of complexity to this explanation, but I think it is by and large correct.

avantvernacular · 2013-08-26T19:17:01+00:00

To attribute this behavior to all women is unfair. However, there is a substantial, definitely non-negligible number of women (and some men) who see a space which happens to have no women in it as inherently misogynistic. Most institutions will find it simply easier (and often cheaper) to cave to the demands of such people, rather than fight endless waves of lawsuits and protests.

giegerwasright · 2013-08-26T21:57:59+00:00

Women don't often hear the word "no". They are used to getting what they want whenever they want it by merely pouting, cwying, or throwing a tantrum. They dislike male only spaces because they dislike anyone else having anything that they don't.

People in this thread are going to say "it's just feminists". No. It's a pretty prevalent behavior among women. Some find the easy justification of feminism and embrace that. Others continue their pouting and cwying and tantruming without it. But that need to never be told "you can't have this" remains.

Let me put it to you this way, do you think this was a feminist?

BrambleEdge · 2013-08-26T19:21:43+00:00

The problem in a lot of cases (I'm thinking mainly of business here) is that those men-only spaces turn into a source of social capital that women are then denied access to.

If the bosses like to go on golf outings to a men-only club, Bob (who can get into the club) may end up with an advantage over Susan (who can't) that has nothing to do with their respective merit.

2013-08-27T00:13:59+00:00

Because modern culture, television, etc portrays men as violent, irresponsible, brainless monsters who can't raise kids, be responsible, logical etc. Television is a brainwash machine. People watch it on TV or in a Movie or on the News and they apply it to everyone.

2013-08-27T02:14:46+00:00

Watch GWW's video on female hypoagency.

Funcuz · 2013-08-27T02:43:27+00:00

I don't think that it's women necessarily who hate male-only spaces. Feminists , on the other hand , certainly make a point of baring their teeth at the thought of men getting to be men in a largely estrogen-free environment.

2013-08-27T06:14:45+00:00

I've noticed that women in general can get quite scathing about men doing things without women around. Why? I have this sneaking suspicion that certain women get bent out of shape by the idea that men can have fun without them.

Kickedbk · 2013-08-27T07:25:39+00:00

I'm still trying to figure out the whole lady's night and women only gyms thing.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2013-08-27T09:23:57+00:00

There are multiple theories for this. All of them may be somewhat true, depending on the situation/woman in question/etc. Here are two off the top of my head.

1) Some kinds of feminism argue that male spaces are places where men are taught misogynist/male-supremacist gender norms. They're in effect "secret Patriarchy meetings" which transmit anti-female ideas. Thus, to combat sexism, these spaces need to be systematically reformatted to fit feminist preferences/ideals... this means feminists need to invade and police these spaces.

2) The gender system objectifies women. This means traditional gender roles prevent women from exercising agency, which means women are taught that if they need something done, they should get a man to do it. Thus, female "power" comes from enlisting male agency in the service of female ends.

Men pursuing their own hobbies, their own ends, their own desires etc. are NOT exercising their agency in the service of a woman. Thus, they are denying/withholding their agency from being employed by women.

Think about it; for a long time, women were prevented from having jobs/careers/etc. which allowed them to become self-sufficient; their best road to material well-being was to get a man and KEEP HIM... to NEVER LET GO. Feminine possessiveness was a survival strategy back when most women's only hope of raising money was to land a man.

A distaste for male spaces is really just an outgrowth of this possessiveness.

runner64 · 2013-08-27T14:27:40+00:00

Allow me to impart my perspective as non-drinker.

At my old job, every weekend my coworkers would get together for drinks. I never went. Because of the camaraderie formed at these get-togethers, they would get to know each other's families and be invited to other social occasions, etc.

Because of this, I had a decided disadvantage when it came to competing for hours, better shifts, and promotions. A manager had to choose between a friend and drinking buddy, or that person they knew from work. I was often passed over.

For many years, it was like this for women in the workplace. When executives and managers got together for golfing trips, dinner outings, or the like, women were very often excluded, putting them at a disadvantage for promotions and making it harder for them to get noticed. Breaking into the male-only spaces was the only way of getting an equal footing in the workplace.

Pups_the_Jew · 2013-08-26T20:34:45+00:00

You'd probably get some enlightening responses from some of the more woman-focused subs. People here have valuable things to add to the discussion, but I think you probably won't get the full range of opinions and reasoning.

railroadwino · 2013-08-27T01:08:47+00:00

I think single gender spaces in general are basically sexist. I would not support any efforts to get rid of them. But I refuse to be a part of anything (besides sports where there is no alternative) that excludes people on the basis of sex.

2013-08-27T06:54:47+00:00

I just read Jesse Bering's "Why Is the Penis Shaped Like That and Other Reflections on Being Human". There are studies indicating that (at least young) women are a lot more psychologically aggressive and and vindictive than men.

Girls apparently learn to survive in this hostile environment partly by overemphasizing the need of consensus and good will. Perhaps that's why women's discussions are more about bonding than disagreeing and competing.

From this perspective male discussions and the like must look like quite nightmarish. But as we all know there are a lot of women who thrive in male spaces. It's not about gender alone.

linearThinker · 2013-08-27T07:56:20+00:00

The reason (some or many) women, as well as feminists, hate male only spaces is the same reason greedy employers hate worker only spaces (i.e., unions) - they represent the combining strength of a group, and as such impart power to those they seek to exploit, and as such a pose a threat to them. They want men/employees to have as little power as possible so they'll be at the mercy of women/employers, who will be in position of power over them and able to reap maximum benefits while contributing little or nothing.

2013-08-27T14:48:29+00:00

It's hard to control your man through emasculation and imbalanced compromise when you're not allowed in the room.

ExpendableOne · 2013-08-27T14:51:51+00:00

"male-only" spaces are inherently sexist, just like "female-only" spaces would be. So, in that sense, I feel that any feminist or egalitarian would be justified in hating any space that discriminates purely on gender. What is not justified, however, are feminists hating on gender neutral spaces that are dominated by men, simply because they are men or feminists hating on "men-only" spaces while also supporting "female-only" spaces. That is sexism.

Nutz76 · 2013-08-27T15:29:16+00:00

Relevant:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1l4rnr/woman_denied_haircut_at_mens_only_barbershop_in/

2013-08-27T15:50:26+00:00

I'm a little late to the part, but I think that most people are missing the real reason feminists hate male only spaces.

Feminists view the entire world as a male only space (this is thanks to our overlord the Patriarchy). They simply define the entire world as amale-only or a male-safe space. They appeal to their ideology, just look at how oppressed women are everywhere. Since men are the oppressors, and they already have a million male-safe spaces, they don't need anymore, only women do.

The misandry, ice-cream gif is basically how they view male only spaces. They have already decided that men have too much ice cream, so men aren't allowed to have anymore. They use whatever definitions fit their ideology and push it along as the truth, but as we are all aware, it's bullshit.

TLDR: Feminists define the entire world as a male only space, so only women need protecting.

phukka · 2013-08-27T18:12:25+00:00

Because women cannot control the narrative in man-only spaces. Give men actual freedom to speak and they might realize that feminism is not all about female empowerment at all, but the systematic destruction of the "male."

Kate150 · 2013-08-26T20:48:06+00:00

Ok. Just in case anyone is interested. In the past, men only spaces were often where all sorts of deals and work related stuff was discussed. This means that women missed out on vital professional "gossip" and contacts and leads- they were used as a way of keeping women out of the loop. Also lots of places, like pubs, were de facto male only. I hav to say, if you are not a woman, you cannot imagine how intimidating it feels to go into, for example, a rowdy bar. You have to take my word for this! I'm sure it is intimidating for some men as well. And a pub full of rowdy woman would be intimidating for most men. But that doesn't generally happen. So men only spaces are obviously a bad thing in work terms. And women started to create women only spaces so that women who felt intimidated by men in large numbers would have somewhere to go. No reason why men shouldn't do the same sort of thing- consciousness raising, discussion groups, therapy groups- go for it. But male- or female- only groups whose sole purpose is to exclude the other sex in order to disadvantage them are obviously a bad idea.

lazlounderhill · 2013-08-27T17:00:12+00:00

Here's my personal belief:

Women find, understand and exert a great deal of power by sticking together in society. They recognize that this is a weakness in men. If you haven't noticed male comraderie is frequently the subject of humor, shame and ridicule. Why?

Fear. Men who bond and cooperate in an internally non-competitive way, but as a team, as a brotherhood, are extremely powerful and can affect great change. Men could end the concept of feminism in less than a year (and I'm being extremely generous by giving it that long) and all they'd have to do is Nothing - literally and universally just stop fulfilling their roles as men in society for a year (provide no money, no labor, no work, no interventions, no law enforcement, no military service, no parenting, no sperm donating, no sex)

Men would simply universally and voluntarily remove themselves from the equation of society for a single year and do absolutely nothing and let the entire weight of civilization rest on women's shoulders. I promise you that feminism and patriarchy as a concept would forever disappear from their minds inside of a year when men returned to assess the damage and carnage that resulted from a mere 12 month absence.

mcmur · 2013-08-27T00:49:50+00:00

Why do feminists hate male-only spaces.

I don't understand why you think all women hate male-only spaces, what a stupid thing to say.

awbitethebullet · 2013-08-27T22:50:54+00:00

Go for it - as long as no exercise of privilege or power is the result, men need such spaces. Women need them too - I wouldn't mind going to a women's club - soft chairs, good food...

PeterArching · 2013-08-26T19:57:15+00:00

I'm not big on them ether to be honest.. fully male here. EDIT: Does the MRM need to become as exclusive as the Feminist movement? If so the MRM has failed imo.

Perpetual_dissident · 2013-08-27T03:05:18+00:00

Probably for the same reason we don't like female only spaces

Kate150 · 2013-08-26T22:08:09+00:00

"Let me put it to you this way, do you think this was a feminist?"

No. Categorically and absolutely not!

Thuren · 2013-08-27T12:11:42+00:00

Easy, most people are hypocrites in one way or another, no one is perfect. People who believe they are victims (feminists) or people who believe they are superior (like some religious people) are very good at this.

Btw, I found this one weird place for men to hang out at, women HATE it.

Title	Why do women hate male only spaces?
Author	Perpetual_dissident
Upvotes	159
Comments	239
Date	August 26, 2013 7:09 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1l4v6e/why_do_women_hate_male_only_spaces/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-do-women-hate-male-only-spaces.1165414 https://theredarchive.com/post/1165414

Comments