Are young women doing better these days than young men? Are there more manchildren than womanchildren? What are the implications of this?

ToraChan23 · 2019-09-15T05:04:32+00:00

Womenchildren get taken care of.

Manchildren are pathetic and easy scapegoats for any problem society wants to place on them.

stats135 · 2019-09-15T01:11:59+00:00

Men have a wider distribution curve than woman on basically everything. Its not really women or men having it better. Almost all geniuses are men, but almost all retards are men as well. The richest people are men, but so are the poorest.

WhiskeyOnASunday93 · 2019-09-15T02:53:05+00:00

I’m not gonna address the your entire point, cuz basically idklol.

But as far as dating success goes I think a fundamental difference between men and women in the dating sphere is that men have to put in some effort whereas women can expect romantic opportunities to fall into their lap. I’m sure this is a completely unoriginal observation in the pill sphere, so I’m not claiming any novel insight there.

My point is that w/ the failson manchild type of dudes, many of them are hopeless, even when trying to date and tinder and day game and all that shit and still get burned. And that’s a bummer.

But, in my anecdotal experience there’s a significant chunk of dudes whose only barrier to sex and dating is their own apathy. Too unplugged from social media to be comfortable with dating apps, too shy/lazy to ask out that tasty young barista they have a rapport with.

Guys who aren’t exactly the top of the totem pole, but still normal and cool enough to get pussy if they tried. They just don’t try.

So I think that women who share those depressive, apathetic tendencies don’t necessarily take a big hit in the sexual market place.

I’ve been to some grimy borderline hoarder apartments of girls I’m booking up with and while I had to pinch my nose and pretend it wasn’t an issue, it definitely wasn’t a boner killer. My dumb male brain would fuck a girl even if her mattesss was stuffed with rotting trout carcasses if I found her attractive.

On the flip side, I’m constantly cycling through severe alcoholism and sobriety. My apartment has reached some post apocalyptic levels of filth. No sheets on the mattress, empty bottles everywhere. I’ve seen girls’ heart sink and libido dry up when I take them home from the bars.

Average guys who don’t need to move the moon to get laid, just put a little effort in strike out when they are dormant.

Trashy guys with trashy lives (me) learn that a woman’s libido is a more sensitive switch that can flip off easily even after you charmed her at the bar.

Women w/ those detached tendencies and addictions are still gonna have an easy time getting relationships.

Five_Decades · 2019-09-15T03:23:37+00:00

This isn't meant to be placating women, but generally women are more socially responsible and more risk adverse than men.

Women have higher voter turnout, higher rates of obtaining tertiary degrees, lower unemployment rates, higher rates of being caregivers of elderly or disabled family members, lower incarceration rates, etc. Women are generally more socially responsible so them having fewer fuck ups isn't surprising.

However female fuck ups do exist. I'm not sure why op hasn't seen them. Usually they are women with multiple kids where the father isn't present (or the fathers aren't the same for all the kids). Women with drug and alcohol issues. Low paying service sector jobs. Endless fighting and drama.

Basically women with low RMV. I see them all the time, I'm Not sure why op isn't.

the-lone-squid · 2019-09-15T01:10:42+00:00

Men used to get jobs to support a family. Take away the family option then what's the point?

To buy a slightly nicer car that you only use to drive to work in?

To buy a big house for only you and your dog?

The only question that matters is whether or not men are happy. If I knew i wasn't gonna have kids I would've skipped a few steps in life myself.

Plopolok · 2019-09-15T02:34:29+00:00

I suppose many womenchildren can still manage to find boyfriends, and from there get their life in a better situation. Also, first world countries have very few uses for men without specific professional aptitudes. Women can more easily be employed in the service sector, but what can men do? There are not many physical jobs anymore. Even IT is slowly becoming more about UI design and team management than about understanding stuff. And as Jordan Peterson says, even the military doesn't want the leftover men anymore.

Note that we could consider this as a return to normality, and the past centuries of patriarchal monogamy providing a normal life to masses of men as an unusual state. In many animal species, most males have a shitty life, most females have an average life. Some genetics studies have showed that in the past only 40% of men reproduced, while 80% of women did.

See also: the Trivers-Willard_hypothesis states that in an unfavorable environment, females are favored (more are born and they receive more investment), because the male sexual selection is more competitive and trying to have sons won't pay off if you start in a bad place.

NockerJoe · 2019-09-15T00:59:11+00:00

This is just as anecdotal but I think it's like body fat where the thresholds for men are just less forgiving. There's a lot more pressure on men to perform than women. When I spent a year at my parents house post grad unable to find real work it played fucking hell on me physically and mentally. My sister moved back in voluntarily to save money and has no qualms about throwing herself into that same situation. Most of my male friends either live alone or with roommates, and the ones at home are either constantly fighting with their parents or actively looking for an out. The women I date who live at home don't have nearly that kind of stress.

Just like there's a line at fat percentages where a man can be morbidly obese but a woman not even overweight, there's a line where a man can be a total failure and a woman can be right on track. Because nobody is expecting women to get out there and conquer the world in the same way as men or shaming them if they fail.

tritter211 · 2019-09-15T02:15:00+00:00

Its the yin and yang of life.

In today's society, young women can have the time of their lives. They live in peak levels of "equality" period(read: more equal than men)The world is encouraging them to pursue careers, sleep around with whomever they want to now as a sign that they are "empowered", or generally enjoy single-hood with little to no inhibitions as long as you don't break any laws. This is the yin side of women.

For guys, particularly the young ones from late 10's and middle 20's. its brutal as hell right now. I know tons of guys who didn't have sex in 5-7 years in a row. Hell, I even went through a short spell myself. Thats the yin of guys.

The yang of girls start once all that blitzkrieg of life experiences they went through their youths start to dry up once they reach middle 20's and late 20's. This is where they usually start to level up, and some of them do level up and change their ways. But most women don't usually. They still have higher standards to the point that they wound rather remain single than potentially lose the lottery ticket level chance of probability with a high SMV man. This usually goes on to their middle 30's which is where they will reach the desperate stage and begrudgingly "settle down". But, even that strategy is facing resistance from men themselves today, so I am not sure if that strategy will work effectively in the next 10-20 years. This is the yang side of women. The reality is bleak for older single women. I don't know how well they will take it when the sexual market place they created and perfected all their lives spit them out like a nobody like it treated men.

For guys, its usually where all the lessons they learned start to work out for them, even though they aren't technically "happy". They get attention from women for acting contrary to what they have been told all their lives. Atleast this has been the case for me. The yang side of men.

So, OP, to answer your question, its true that women do well today, but they most likely won't as they grow old. Men fare the absolute worst today, but they usually will fare well as they grow old, as they grew up facing hardships, and they will reap rewards for the hard life experiences and career focus they put in this brutal 20's phase. Yin and yang. Shadow can't exist without light.

Cho_Assmilk · 2019-09-15T01:43:48+00:00

I know lots of guys in their mid late 20s who are just hopelessly lost in their lives and careers, severe anxiety and depression, living at home, never fucking or doing anything cool, friend group consists of similar losers who stuck around in their hometown, essentially living the same way they were when they were 15.

For every guy who does this there is a single mom. In the past, that guy would have been with her. Now she can easily get fucked by better looking guys due to being sexually liberated, but can't get the commitment. Actually a lot of these guys you mention end up becoming a BB to these women in their 30s.

TheLongerCon · 2019-09-15T02:09:49+00:00

First of all, it's nearly pointless to try to generalize a generation based on your personal social circle.

But if men are mainly motivated by their desire to get laid, and getting laid no longer requires being a productive citizen(and being a productive citizen doesn't guarantee getting laid), then fewer men are going to become a productive citizen.

Christian_Kong · 2019-09-15T04:41:17+00:00

Of the people of that age range I know, they seem to be pretty similar across the board. Most all are just getting by with low to mid level jobs. I think the girls are more likely to have a BF/FWB/etc in their lives though. I also see that guys/girls in real relationships are %1000 less likely to do anything social.

_Anarchon_ · 2019-09-15T14:56:31+00:00

but the "manchild" epidemic seems to be a legit thing when there really isn't an equivalent "womanchild" counterpart.

I see the same thing in men. I believe its the result of being raised by single mothers, and decreases in testosterone from environmental factors. I think you're wrong about there not being a "womanchild" equivalent. This phenomena has affected women too, just differently. They are just as maladjusted to living in society.

The men were groomed to be effeminate mama's boys. The women were raised with the example of an unfit, mentally ill mother, and that's what they become themselves, perpetuating the entire problem.

red_matrix · 2019-09-15T15:36:55+00:00

That’s what happens when the education system treats boys like defective girls...

binkerfluid · 2019-09-15T02:19:52+00:00

I think men and women have mostly the same uphill, in womens case it is self imposed, while in man's case it is others imposed. However women are well accepted if they fail, while men aren't. Which results in the points above.

If a man fail, even if it is not his fault or if they just don't succeed enough, he is going to go a downward spiral of suffering which he probably will never recover in and which will plague him for the last of his life. And I am not talking about divorce alone, all malinvestments are paid forever as resources yo couldn't invest wisely at the right time.

All man's failures to onvest well are forever paid, the resources I used to achieve sex and relationships in my teens and young adulthood are a plague in my shoe since then, even when I don't invest that anymore, It is a plague in my past. I could be way higher if I wasn't interested in it.

These situations almost never happens to women. (I never seen an adult woman go this downward spiral, ever) and in some cases it makes complete rational sense to men to suicide than to go this downward spiral of suffering (Like many of my friends did). I see this as a tragic incident. Men who choose to live in suffering or to die because of it because they failed. I fear it happens to me one day, and I have no way out. This is the fright of the men of our times.

87AudreyHorne · 2019-09-15T07:10:25+00:00

Good answers here but I also feel like men are judged more harshly for being childish. Honestly most 30 something year olds are much more like kids today than generations before and maybe it's not even all that horrible. We are all growing up.slower and in different directions. Of course we can talk about this as purely a matter of self sustainability and even that is hard to achieve for a lot of people.

Anecdotally I also know more guys who are totally lost and unemployed than girls. Being directionless is kind of common.

Aside from that few random observations:

it seems to me from reddit/this sub that in US it's still pretty common for women to stop working when they have kids. They then dont have self sustainable lifestyle but no one will call them women children for that
personal experience : girls in crisis (cant get jobs in their field, don't know what to do...) get a shitty job and stick to it somewhat. Guys start fantasizing about unrealistic fixes and become allergic to work, with overwhelmingly "ambitious" ideas and no plans at all on how to get to them. Many unemployed guys I know constantly come up with great plans like making a movie, becoming a best selling author or a famous musician, being an "entrepreneur" with all kinds of delusions of what running your own business entails, or even living purely based on sunlight.
we are all fed up with the work life and not at all eager about living up to the ideals of adult life. I can actually understand why for someone who can only make minimum wage it actually makes more sense to stay with their parents and occasionally sell weed, spending days in coffee shops. Beats days of hard work for not much more money, and independence costs. Plus maybe mom and dad arent so bad compared to some asshole employer
this is very location specific but I think even globally for different reasons we can sympathize. Our parents grew up differently and maybe better. We were being prepared for a different world. Capitalism makes us miserable

darksoldierk · 2019-09-15T02:08:18+00:00

It's because the world is designed around women. It's easy for women to succeed when the education system is designed to help them succeed, when companies are penalized for not hiring women etc etc. Right now, women can basically do whatever they want without facing any non-superficial repercussions. The thing that most people forget is, in order for our world to benefit women to this point, it had to take from men.

The social issue is that men have been criticized so heavily, they've been antagonized so much simply for acting like men. The men in the mid-20's that you see, they grew up in playgrounds where normal boys behavior was dubbed as destructive, violent, dangerous and was medicated. Those same men went to colleges where them just asking a girl out after her having a drink could result in expulsion, and harassment issues.

I've never worked at a job where I wasn't accused of sexual harassment by some woman, and (as an anecdotal note) I don't have a single friend who wasn't accused of either sexual harassment or just straight up harassment by women. My favourit "harassment" accusation was when I was 17 and supervising a shift at a local convenience store. This extremely racist woman was working the cash register and I was receiving a delivery in the back and putting it in the freezer. Apparently a group of black people came in, and she felt like she was in danger. She accused me of harassment, I didn't know that's harassment, I wasn't anywhere near her, but apparently, under ontario law, it qualifies. I got a call from the company's HR (it's a big chain of convenience stores), and I had no idea what the hell was going on.

A few years later at my first real office job, I got accused of harassment for not saying good morning to a woman. Oh yeah, at the job after that one, a woman locked me in a filing room (purposefully) and said she wouldn't open the door until I kissed her. I complained to HR, and they said "if you go through with this complaint, it'll be your word against hers, if she claims that YOU sexually harassed her, then you'd probably have a real issue on your hands".

Point of these stories is, obviously men are going to be socially inept. A man in today's world has to walk on eggshells all day long around women. The consequences of not walking on eggshells are no longer a slap on the hand, they are a loss of your job and may have legal implications. Some men can handle that, some men can't. The ones that can't, either go into male-oriented careers, like construction (although now, with the potential for gender quotas, even construction is being filled up with women), or they retract.

Women are able to progress their careers because society forces men to shoulder the burden of women's careers. When a woman goes on maternity leave, it's men who are taking over her workload. As an example, lets say that a workplace department has 3 people - John, Stacy and Marcie. Marcie goes on mat leave, the company asks stacy and john to cover her workload while she's away. They do, neither john nor stacy get extra money, despite them having to work longer hours and have a higher workload. Then a year later, Marcie gets pregnant, and stacy and john are asked to take on the higher workload to cover for stacy's job. Now, John can never go on maternity leave, he can go on paternity leave, but paternity leave is nowhere near the same level as maternity leave. I know men who got fired for even asking about paternity leave, when they went to the ministry, they said "yeah, cases of dismissal for paternity leaves usually take about 7-10 years". So essentially, what we end up with is, stacy and marcie covering for each other while on maternity leave (so their cost is nullified) but john never had the same opportunity as stacy or marcie to take maternity leave. So the cost of their maternity leave was unequally paid by john.

Remember that study to determine stereotypes against in modern hiring practices that was done in australia or austria like last year? I can find it and link it if you like. Basically, they wanted to determine hiring bias against women by having companies hire without having any identifiers of genders of the applicants. The study backfired, and it started showing that there was a bias, but the bias was against men, not women. As soon as the study started showing it, they stopped the study.

It's easy to get ahead in life, when someone holds back half of your competitors and allows you to step on top of them. The fact is, women's success is being shouldered by men, yet despite this, men are antagonized at every level of society for not being women. Problem is, men can't be women, because no one is shouldering them.

I would argue that the implications are a swing of the pendulum. I'd like to think that society cares enough about men to eventually force women's taxes and force legislation to help out those men that have given up on society. But I might be hoping too much here, I mean, after all, society has decided to dub these men "manchildren", yet when women do the exact same thing, society decides that it's "issues of education, workplace harassment, hiring biases etc etc etc" and blames everyone and everything except women.

Bekiala · 2019-09-15T02:04:55+00:00

I think you are right although I don't think the perjorative term is exactly fair as today's younger men are pretty much the first wave to have to compete fully with women. 1981 was the first year there were roughly equal numbers of men and women in college.

Girls typically do so much better in school than their age-match boys. Traditional academics are much better suited to girls than boys. From what I understand, science has shown that the male brain doesn't typically fully develop until they are 25.

If you have a son please give him lots of support. If possible hold him back a year for starting kindergarten. Don't push college right after high school . . . just IMHO.

In 50 years, we will better know how to support boys and young men but society is going to lose many fine talented young men as we don't have the support system for them and they don't have the developmental genetics to be able to compete with their female age mates. This temporary disability will break the ambition of many of these gifted individuals.

edit: there to their

NotAThrowAwayISay68 · 2019-09-15T03:40:23+00:00

Anecdotally yes

RandomAttackHelpMe · 2019-09-15T06:32:05+00:00

I'm some where in this weird middle point, I'm 34, have some of the same habits/tendencies/beliefs I did when I was young, which is when my problems started, I would say I've matured but still have some issues, I have felt lost and confused a long time and am sort of starting to see the way out. My support system is limited, I have little to no satisfying and fullfilling relationships.

On top of that, I met this woman I work with and we have hit it off and she seems more ambitious than me. I think there's a chance there though.

TriborgPierot94 · 2019-09-15T08:12:26+00:00

Give me an actual reason to give a shit about anything else. I go to to work because I'm expected and I will live till I'm 45 because by then I'll have had enough of life.

There isn't anything keeping motivated past going back to bed at night.

cxj · 2019-09-15T14:40:56+00:00

IME women are absolutely doing better on average, but complaining and resentful they aren’t doing as well as the small % of top men who took major risks and Herculean effort to be where they are.

I know so, so many dudes who live exactly like you described, the same way since age 15. I come to my home town to hang out and they’re like “let’s play emulators on my laptop from 2006 in my room in my parents house “ “nope can’t go anywhere been broke since I was laid off from Home Depot in 2014 and never got another job”

MisterJose · 2019-09-15T18:27:22+00:00

It depends, but I think something like low personal income is a thing we still forgive much more in young women. If you're a young woman without a job, or who barely brings in an income, that's kind of still 'ok', and you can still meet a man who will handle the larger portion of the financial support.

But if you're a dude who is broke? Yeah, fuck you forever. You're disgusting, lazy, and no women will ever talk to you.

learn2earn89 · 2019-09-15T03:45:39+00:00

Honestly, my friends and I were obsessed with movies and television shows where the female characters often went to good colleges and ended up getting great careers. This was aspirational for us. Both my sister and I went to college but both my brothers hated school. Maybe women are influenced by the media in an aspirational sort of way. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still a socially anxious introvert with no romantic experience but I never wanted to depend on anyone other than myself. Is 29 years old still considered young?

illegallad · 2019-09-15T03:12:06+00:00

My anecdata is different than yours. I'm in my late 20s and a shockingly large number of women still live with their parents.

ScaredIllustrator · 2019-09-15T08:05:30+00:00

i blame society and feminism in the same way women used to be able to blame 'the patriarchy'.

...matriarchy?

toasterchild · 2019-09-15T11:26:08+00:00

Immature women children don't end up alone, they end up in a house full of children from different men they couldn't keep around. This almost never happens in the educated, high employment area i live in, but is not that uncommon in more rural areas.

letter_of_resignatio · 2019-09-17T18:00:56+00:00

Yes, at least in finland. School system is working better for girls. Also I always remeber what one old woman told to my father. My father was youth worker, he worked for local goverment. He ran youth hangout and arranged trips to different places, swinging pool, camps, theamparks and places like that. One swimming trip was also open for certain senior citizens. After that trip, one of older females came and told how important work my father did. Not just youth work, but being positive male model for these boys. She truly ment that. Looking back, most of kids that went for these trips were boys and that woman was kind right. Most of our teachers were female teachers, from kindergarten to hige school. Also every other job that involved kids, they are female dominated.

Boys need to be boys and they also need male role model other then their father.

reluctantly_red · 2019-09-15T05:26:17+00:00

Millennials who managed to launch despite the Great Recession aren't childlike. Both my 31 year old son and 30 year old daughter have successful careers and families (I have three grandchildren).

wtknight · 2019-09-15T02:27:10+00:00

Overall young women are probably doing better, because they are the ones more likely to be getting the type of higher education that is helping them in today's economy. This gets glossed over by the media because of the small number of men who are still doing extremely well because they got quality educations in STEM or business/finance fields and as a result are raking in lots of money.

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largepaycheckaddict · 2019-09-15T04:38:18+00:00

I know lots of guys in their mid late 20s who are just hopelessly lost in their lives and careers, severe anxiety and depression, living at home, never fucking or doing anything cool, friend group consists of similar losers who stuck around in their hometown, essentially living the same way they were when they were 15

This is so me and my friends. Except I went to college, couldn’t afford to stay in my colleges city or find work so now I’m back in my hometown.. despite having really good grades and being all high performance in college. Haven’t got laid in over a year and just canceled a date cause I’m literally too broke to go to a dive bar. Feels super shitty.

sleuthoftrades · 2019-09-15T14:07:19+00:00

Are you sure these women are actually providing for themselves? More often than not I have found that these women are being supported by some man. My current gf is a prime example. From the outside looking in, it sounds like she has her life completely together (job, living alone, car, etc). But then I found out her job doesn't pay much and her apartment/utilities/car are being paid for by her dad...

I've seen that happen numerous times, not just by the dad. A coworker is fully funding his gf (apartment, car, clothes, etc). But not everyone knows that. Most people will think she is paying for herself.

Then of course there are the sugar babies and just plain whores...

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-09-15T15:14:30+00:00

Women are already children. They have to be atleast 67 before they show any signs of maturity and even then they have to be somewhat smart.

Mac2284 · 2019-09-16T23:07:05+00:00

I have been dating alot recently. It might be my city or maybe what i am attracting or my age etc.... But there seem to be alot of women children in online dating. Women children that seem to be getting pumped and dumped alot by attractive man children. im finding that around age 35 women still live with their parents. Only a small fraction make more than 15 dollars an hour. Most claim they have some kind of anxiety or coping problems. Its a shit show.

binkerfluid · 2019-09-18T08:36:48+00:00

for the last couple whatever of years society has been promoting girls and trying to help them while often times telling boys how bad they are and not giving them much help. Is it any wonder its working...?

Also when incentive for men to succeed is removed or the price for a normal life is too high is it any wonder some will drop out?

see Japan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men

analt223 · 2019-09-15T04:21:14+00:00

Women amongst the mid 80s births and younger are easily doing better.

Woman who majors in stupid shit: Job in HR making meh but still salary with a 401k and healthcare
Man who majors in stupid shit: "You want 20 dollars on pump 12?"

[deleted] · 2019-09-15T02:20:16+00:00

I think men and women have mostly the same uphill, in womens case it is self imposed, while in man's case it is others imposed. However women are well accepted if they fail, while men aren't. Which results in the points above.

If a man fail, even if it is not his fault or if they just don't succeed enough, he is going to go a downward spiral of suffering which he probably will never recover in and which will plague him for the last of his life. And I am not talking about divorce alone, all malinvestments are paid forever as resources yo couldn't invest wisely at the right time.

All man's failures to onvest well are forever paid, the resources I used to achieve sex and relationships in my teens and young adulthood are a plague in my shoe since then, even when I don't invest that anymore, It is a plague in my past. I could be way higher if I wasn't interested in it.

These situations almost never happens to women. (I never seen an adult woman go this downward spiral, ever) and in some cases it makes complete rational sense to men to suicide than to go this downward spiral of suffering (Like many of my friends did). I see this as a tragic incident. Men who choose to live in suffering or to die because of it because they failed. I fear it happens to me one day, and I have no way out. This is the fright of the men of our times.

Title	Are young women doing better these days than young men? Are there more manchildren than womanchildren? What are the implications of this?
Author	DampRat
Upvotes	128
Comments	242
Date	September 14, 2019 11:46 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/d4czuu/are_young_women_doing_better_these_days_than/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-young-women-doing-better-these-days-than-young.253900 https://theredarchive.com/post/253900

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