How does your pill/perspective explain “good on paper” men failing to find suitable relationships?

sketch162000 · 2018-08-10T03:54:16+00:00

TBH your "good on paper" doesn't have anything particularly attractive about him. He's certainly not bad, but there isn't anything great about him either. Unfortunately, we men are in a competition for female attention, and if you can't find a way to stand out, you will lose. It sucks, but it's true. Somewhere along the line men get the idea that average should be good enough (maybe because being average is enough if you're a woman) but that's really not how it works for men.

ATastefulNude · 2018-08-09T22:35:23+00:00

I've known a few men like this. Handsome, stable, kind, intelligent, but unable to find love.

The consistent feature is poor social skills. All of them are very shy and/or spectrumy.

I myself have left very promising dates disappointed after struggling for conversation with an otherwise great dude.

Bronzehawkattack · 2018-08-10T04:21:57+00:00

He doesn't have a good face. That's really all. There are other factors that can be holding him back, like height, ethnicity, bad socially, etc... but ultimately all of that would be forgiven if he had a 7+/10 face.

All of the behaviors you listed I believe are bad for a man to exhibit romantically, especially if he's below the age where beta buxxing becomes an option, but that wouldn't matter if he was handsome because then women would desire him and approach him anyways.

jax006 · 2018-08-09T23:49:18+00:00

Lack of approaches, lack of escalation

1Badmunki · 2018-08-10T01:19:42+00:00

A lot has to do with a lack of assertiveness, style and a lack of social skills but these guys do eventually find an LTR, it may not be with someone ideal but yes they do find someone eventually. I know of someone in particular, mid 30s guy, who was a decent guy, good job but did not have good fashion sense (dressed nerdy) and was unwilling to improve his social skills. He told me he got zero matches on dating apps. He met a 39/40 yo woman at a meetup. At that age you can imagine, she was chasing him and she was desperate for a kid. I am happy for this guy, it was a good match for both of them. I initially advised him not to date her if he wanted a kid, told him he could easily date a late 20s/early30s girl etc. Not sure if she was able to concieve naturally or even have a kid at all.

cxj · 2018-08-10T07:59:36+00:00

I've known tons of dudes like this, my last room mate was this exact description. I remember one thanksgiving I was back in town hanging out with the old high school friends, getting into our mid 20s. Me and my drummer had just got back from tour and were flat broke. My boy called me and was like "yo we gotta go out" and I had to explain to him that I had no job, money, car, nothing at all I was crashing with my parents lol. He was like "cool I'll spot you." I went out in band merch and old camo shorts and ripped up vans. Everyone else had nice clothes. We were talking about life in the wee hours, and sex and girls came up. It was discovered that, out of 10 or so of us, me and my drummer had fucked more girls than the rest of the group combined in spite of being complete losers. The rest of the group had 0-2 fucks, usually serious relationships where the girls held the cards. The rest of the guys were college graduates or tradesman making decent money.

The issue is that modern jobs and the middle class are a safe but boring way to live. Focusing most of your time learning a field like engineering makes you a boring person to most women and people in general, yes I understand we need engineers but y'all aren't fun to the rest of us. Artists, creators, promoters, performers, etc, are fun to everyone else, and women are looking for a lot more than just looks, so the handsome, moderately successful but boring guys just aren't gonna cut it.

You can do basically anything to a woman these days, except bore her.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-08-09T23:10:17+00:00

he has a stable and decent paying office job (say computer programmer), mature, acts kind to others, only wants a LTR and not casual sex, trustworthy, good relationship with his family, isn’t aggressive in pursing women/sex, and is in average shape (so no beer gut, but probably doesn’t lift either).

1) women don't want stable, trustworthy, passive, mature men. These men are only good on paper because of lies about what women want

2) this man sounds like a blaise husk with absolutely nothing interesting going on. Which is the worst thing you can be as a man. You're much better off pissing off 95% of women or having 95% of them think you're a moron. If the other 5% are turned on you'll do much better than someone indistinguishable from the herd

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-08-09T23:25:39+00:00

what does he look like, how dorky/nerdy/antisocial/uncool is he? where does he hang out?

TheLongerCon · 2018-08-10T00:38:48+00:00

*Not enough approaching.

*Standards are too high.

*Not enough escalation on dates.

*Wrong race, in the wrong place.

And honestly finding a quality girlfriend is hard, it's much easier to find hookups with meh girls than a realtionship with a solid pretty one with a good personality.

I think people underestimate the difficulty of a man finding an attractive women. Social skills matter, but at the end of the day it still requires a decent amount of luck, even for attractive men.

Littleknownfacts · 2018-08-09T22:34:27+00:00

I can think of a particular example from my dating experience of a guy that was "good on paper" not working out, and it was because he failed to escalate/sexualize our interactions. Not really his fault, but a little dose of TRP probably would have helped him.

Doom_and-Gloom · 2018-08-10T01:49:00+00:00

It's worth noting that the "good" men who fail usually fail for a reason - and no, it's not because they're good, as TRP would have you believe it.

Usually it's because they're lacking in some other important department (hint: it's usually looks) - those flaws might've been overlooked a generation or two ago. But we live in an age where women are only interested in top-tier men, and if they can't get top-tier men, would rather be alone than with a guy who's slightly below their (completely unreal) expectations.

Also lol at all the female users here saying "poor social skills". Remember, women are totally not a hivemind, guys. :D

wtknight · 2018-08-09T23:33:08+00:00

I feel like the mainstream doesn’t have a good answer, from what I gather the mainstream answer is usually one of these:

Why aren't these good answers?

AlanHalworth · 2018-08-10T02:51:38+00:00

I think there are probably many reasons, but one reason is either accidentally missing IoIs or _deliberately_ missing IoIs (I mean noticing that a woman likes you and being too obstinate to respond because you have one-itis with someone else, or because she doesn't match your ideal woman in some way even though you're attracted to her.)

Another is being unable to have a conversation about human things. (Like being a scientist / programmer / video game player who can only talk about those things.)

How about the problem of not having a friend network that would allow him to meet women? Not having skills needed to make and keep these friends (which I would maintain are different from RP skills.)

I don't have a coherent pill / perspective right now. I am purple but I'm reconsidering everything. Moving in the blue direction, perhaps.

abaxeron · 2018-08-10T09:14:26+00:00

Simple - NO relationship with adult woman is suitable for adult man. A relationship is always something men have to compromise and sacrifice for (do or don't women have to the same - is entirely different question that I don't care about). Many men expect women's behavior to make some sort of moral and economical sense; as if the world was a videoRPG and thus should have some guaranteed level of balance. No; she's the ultimate boss of this game, and your controller is deliberately broken. Enjoy the game.

Eartherry · 2018-08-10T04:59:32+00:00

The main reason is the economy. An employer's market has made getting the kind of job that can support a family harder than it has in a long time. Those at about the age to start families are now having to forgo relationships altogether due to the precariousness of their lives.

So now both men and women both have to work. But the gender roles are staying about the same so women are having to work and take on the custodial care of the kids. Meanwhile, her SO will refuse to expand his own roles to be more of an asset, often doing or saying anything to keep from feeling less than masculine.

That puts women in a difficult position where a relationship is almost guaranteed to be a net negative for her especially. The fact that women don't rely on men for anything coupled with the likelihood of ending up on the losing end of any romantic relationships is making relationships in general less attractive to women. Many have decided not to avoid them altogether, but put them off until it's more economical and with the kind of man that wouldn't want to take more than they contribute.

The result is fewer women in their twenties interested in LTRs and ultra-masculine men being less desirable for LTRs, in favor of more compassionate men.

zeitgirl_ · 2018-08-10T09:00:09+00:00

He doesn't have game
He doesn't meet enough women
The women he does meet have character flaws of their own that are attracted to men who replicate their childhood trauma (aka "no spark/chemistry")
He's vanilla and girls would rather be single and keep waiting than "settle"

BirdManBrrrr · 2018-08-10T16:29:53+00:00

That list of attributes perfectly describes a co-worker who is having a shit time keeping women interested. He learned how to approach and get dates, but can't keep a woman's interest. He's a good guy's guy, but unsuccessful with women.

Good on paper = Boring. It's that simple. He's boring in every way- looks, dress, activities, personality, etc. This is despite him being above average in a number of things- income, career, homeowner, athletic.

No edge to him, nothing that can generate tingles, nothing that can generate a archetype (He's funny/mysterious/fun/etc!). Plain old boring. Maybe there's a boring girl out there who jives well with that, but he sure hasn't found her yet.

killallthenarcs · 2018-08-09T22:49:38+00:00

He is just unlucky, he will find a woman eventually. He needs to double down on the "good" qualities he already has (like he needs to get a promotion at work, or he needs to be even more mature). He must have some kind of character flaw and deserves his fate.

Or he's socially inept. Or he's got some sort of unreasonable fussiness going on (she has to be Asian when Asians are only 5% of the town he lives in, and slim and love computer games and be a virgin!) and is in denial over what that means to his chances. Or he just doesn't bother to leave the house except for work. Or he's bland as tapioca but wants an exciting party girl. Or he wants someone who puts a lot of effort into having a plastic pornstar appearance and doesn't realize that such girls usually want a man who does the same. Or his "acts kind" is precisely that and every woman and her cat can tell it is just an act. Or he references his mother five times in the first ten minutes of conversation.

In terms of pills, I pop them or refrain from popping them as I see fit.

Young_Oryx · 2018-08-10T03:14:39+00:00

Just skimming over the list, I see a lot of traits that are good for RMV, but not a lot of high SMV traits. At a glance, this might be a problem:

isn’t aggressive in pursing women/sex

This is good if it means he's not rude and vulgar when pursuing women (i.e. he's not the douche yelling "nice tits!" at a woman out a moving car). If this means he doesn't approach women at all and instead waits for women to approach him-- this is not a good tactic.

Next thought: If you told me this list about a man, and then told me that he can't get women, I would assume that he's unattractive. He doesn't need to lift, but he does need to have a good face; if he doesn't have a good face, lifting might help.

Like I mentioned earlier, I don't see mention of high-SMV traits. Is he funny? Charming? A little bit cocky in an attractive way? Those are things that attract women. High-RMV traits are things that will keep a woman around for a LTR but don't necessarily help in starting the relationship to begin with.

Of course, it's also possible that he just hasn't met the right person yet. Finding a SO is a bit of a numbers game and takes some luck.

YaAmar · 2018-08-10T02:23:53+00:00

struggles to find a girlfriend of similar RMV?

It's because of the obesity epidemic

paresban173 · 2018-08-10T04:35:06+00:00

Easy we have /u/trail22 here by virtue of being 5'3 and Asian looks like he's not getting off the starting block well.

TheKarmicWoosh · 2018-08-10T05:11:10+00:00

It depends.

How many potential partners is the guy interacting with? If the guy isn't all that attractive he has an uphill battle at least in the first stages of interaction. No one gives a fuck about your nice office job if you're balding 4'11 with cystic acne and a lazy eye. So lets say this guy is pretty physically attractive so his pool of options is pretty large, this then leads us to ask
How does the guy act with these partners. If a handsome dude is still flailing after going on lots of dates and meeting women, he's just lame, end of story. Most likely doesn't physically escalate or is too nervous to do so, or is awkward and inexperienced in his actions, especially if he

isn’t aggressive in pursing women/sex

In my experience the most sexually aggressive Men were the ones who had the most partners and options in general. How many people expect socially awkward average looking software nerds with good jobs to be the top prospects for dating? Drug Dealers have more options imo.

Yonderlander · 2018-08-10T06:17:58+00:00

It's hard for everyone sometimes. I've know lovely men who struggle, and lovely women. It can take years to find someone you click with, and that's life. Perhaps there is also an element that these good, genuine honest and quality people are less willing to settle or 'use' people they aren't interested in for sex and short term relationships- they need a real connection. I've got one particular guy and girl in mind, wonderful, attractivepeople who spent years alone.

whitetrashcarl · 2018-08-10T06:28:20+00:00

Here’s what happens

Guy has shitty girls who will commit. They’ll also just have casual sex with him. He has no reason to commit and he won’t

Guy keeps dating other girls to add to the collection (or maybe even date seriously, if they’re high quality to him). Some of them think “ew this guy has a lot going for him but I just don’t feel it.” These girls are merely not attracted to him. That’s it. They’re not attracted. Everything else (or 99% of it or whatever) is just backwards rationalization and halo effect

[deleted] · 2018-08-10T06:32:49+00:00

People will rationalize what they find attractive as good and what they don't find attractive as bad. Especially women, but men may think a beautiful woman is better than what she really is. Be attractive, don't be unattractive and you're set. Even if you're an autist.

exit_sandman · 2018-08-10T07:49:13+00:00

isn’t aggressive in pursing women/sex, and is in average shape (so no beer gut, but probably doesn’t lift either).

Because of those.

micr0penis · 2018-08-10T14:54:59+00:00

On paper, overall, I don't think I look to good for reasons I don't care to document online.

But, I'm very comfortable socially, intuitive, and confident.

I don't have any issues finding women to date or sleep with when I want to.

So to answer your question in reverse, those men lacks the those things is not able to sustain attraction when put into a close personal encounter, such as a date.

When those guys do finally get married,he result is where beta bux trope comes. They can provide for a family, but don't inspire the other important feelings that most women want out of their male partner.

Willow-girl · 2018-08-10T16:02:30+00:00

Beats me! My bosses' son is in his 30s, nice-looking, about the nicest guy you can imagine. Has a good job, nice house ... no girlfriend. Never been married, no kids. I don't think he's gay. You'd think the ladies would be all over him, but seemingly not. Weird!

ItsOverBoyosLDAR · 2018-08-12T08:22:37+00:00

It's all about the face. If you have a 3/10 or below face you are shit out of luck and would be better off pursuing things other than women unless you are willing to beta bux your way into her pussy. Nonetheless, her pussy will never get wet for you like it does for Chad's cock because you simply can't compete with him in terms of facial aesthetics. No amount of money or muscles will ever change that. I am 12% bodyfat and have visible abs and it doesn't do shit when it comes to attracting women. I've never had a woman flirt with me in my entire life ever.

themerpug · 2018-09-06T15:46:35+00:00

I dated a guy that made good money, had abs, acted kind to others, wanted marriage, trustworthy, good relationship with his family, mature...

The issue came down to the fact that he was self-centered in LTR. He was also really inconsiderate without realizing it.

sublimemongrel · 2018-08-09T23:03:12+00:00

Could be a variety of reasons. Maybe he’s unlucky, maybe he’s looking in the wrong places, maybe he’s sky/awkward and doesn’t really perceive it. Tbh I can’t think of a man fitting your description in my real life who can’t get dates/GFs.

[deleted] · 2018-08-09T23:08:26+00:00

It's a lack of social skills almost every time in my experience.

321PK · 2018-08-09T22:35:59+00:00

Well, weird random stuff happens in life doesn’t it? Seems that way. Also, it’s not like ppl always go for what’s best for them. Maybe he only goes for rachets??? 😂 My perspective is not everybody gets what they deserve.

LivelyChartreuse · 2018-08-10T02:14:23+00:00

I'm reddish purp, female.

If a guy is good on paper and failing, then not everything important about him is on paper. It's like a possible hire who seems great and then can't make eye contact during the interview. Ain't worth it.

goatismycopilot · 2018-08-09T22:54:14+00:00

Usually these guys complain about not being able to find casual sex and how Stacey won't bang programmers. There are not hordes of men crying about wanting relationships.

Salty-Bastard · 2018-08-09T22:35:49+00:00

He's reliable. He just needs to figure out a way to increase his smv to compliment his rmv.

SpaceWhiskey · 2018-08-10T04:29:10+00:00

“Looks good on paper”, as I’ve always said understood the term, means that they have a problem that must be experienced in person to be observed. It’s almost always a personality or behavior thing. Something they’re doing or not doing is offputting and it’s holding them back.

nemma88 · 2018-08-10T07:51:52+00:00

By “good on paper” I mean this man has the qualities and personality that are considered “good boyfriend material” in the mainstream? So he has a stable and decent paying office job (say computer programmer), mature, acts kind to others, only wants a LTR and not casual sex, trustworthy, good relationship with his family, isn’t aggressive in pursing women/sex, and is in average shape (so no beer gut, but probably doesn’t lift either).

Everyone I know like this is paired...

Why are there so many men like that who complain about not being able to find women who will date him? Let’s limit the scope of this to men who are talking about women with similar RMV.

They are under representing their beer gut, they are actually obese. Or they have very poor social skills. They are overestimating their RMV or everyone else is overweight and the numbers just don't sit well together.

drew8311 · 2018-08-10T03:09:25+00:00

If the paper is wrong or missing key qualities it's on whoever wrote it, not the pills duty to justify an incorrect list.

beerhiker · 2018-08-10T04:01:42+00:00

Be able to talk and show some sort of confidence. It helps if you ride a motorcycle and can do shit like change a tire.

flamingoinghome · 2018-08-10T10:42:27+00:00

In my experience, this is actually pretty rare, and when it does happen, it's because they guy doesn't know many women and photographs poorly/ refuses to go online. There's also the case where he's hung up on a particular woman and/or image of what kind of woman he'll date, and can't let it go.

But I think the vast majority of these cases are just "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

[deleted] · 2018-08-11T03:23:23+00:00

These good men usually want perfect partners. That isn't fair to anyone male or female.

nomansweb · 2018-08-12T10:56:05+00:00

Here are some possibilities:

he's too boring (at least for the type of women he likes)
he has a severe lack of social skills (like heavy aspergers)
his body may be average but his face is ugly and even ugly women don't like ugly men (at least not under 35 and with the rest of his person merely being average)
he doesn't meet a lot of single women IRL (online doesn't count since online dating doesn't work for men who are merely in "average shape")
there are lots of Chads wherever he goes so he doesn't get noticed
the single women he meets are the kind who are only chasing Chads
his type of women is rare in his surroundings, or in general
his type of women tends to not like the type of man he is
he is overly "blue pilled"/submissive when dealing with women

And yeah, the mainstream answer tends to be "there must be something wrong with him and that's his own fault and he deserves to die alone". Unfortunately too many boys grow up with false expectations because nobody taught them that men shouldn't count on sympathy.

chavikux · 2018-09-12T04:49:51+00:00

Look and see for I have a seashell to my ear and I hear the voice of my beloved, calm words outpouring of her tongue: reassuring me that she might be mine. So many sad men and none of them sacrifice their egos mid the lone pearl who's shattered the mirror's perception. Even if she was as Gomer, she's shan't wrestle the chains, that position already occupant of the Lamb. Unless she's an angelic representative awakening a metamorphosis, as once always there. Shivers down my spine as the being returns to its former state, repossessing an old emanation, that knowledge's pill hijacked. It is the childlike innocence so preexistent, [however] harboring in the deadness somewhere, latching out of the box.

VoidInvincible · 2018-08-10T04:57:29+00:00

Doesn't lift

-sybarite- · 2018-08-11T06:11:46+00:00

He has the wrong face.

IncomeByEtnicity · 2018-08-09T23:32:47+00:00

No such thing as "good on paper" man. Parental Divorce Damage is sometimes not easy to see.

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Title	How does your pill/perspective explain “good on paper” men failing to find suitable relationships?
Author	BossOfTheAppleSauce
Upvotes	17
Comments	219
Date	August 9, 2018 10:31 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9616nn/how_does_your_pillperspective_explain_good_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-does-your-pillperspective-explain-good-on.261196 https://theredarchive.com/post/261196

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