What is everyone’s thoughts on Billie Eilish now “showing skin”? What does her defense make you feel?

thirdtoebean · 2021-05-02T17:15:39+00:00

I feel like she's had some bad advice by people who are not looking out for her. She seems to have swallowed the 'sexy = empowering' whole without thinking about what power she's getting from it. It probably does feel better than when everyone was being horrible about her body that one time she wore a vest and shorts, but maybe she hasn't learned the difference between positive attention and respect.

Eh. It's not great, but can forgive a 19 year old for not having top notch radical feminist analysis. Hope she continues making good tunes & does not let the bastards get her down.

lansburysoda · 2021-05-02T17:24:11+00:00

Billie Eilish is very talented, but she’s been groomed by the music industry. She’s had her career developed and controlled by them since she was a child. She’s not an independent artist, which means that the majority of her “decisions” are made by other people. At 19, she is probably easily manipulated. I really hope that this was her choice, but I have a feeling her label pushed her in this direction... her whole trajectory follows a familiar narrative

jkklfdasfhj · 2021-05-02T17:23:48+00:00

This seems to be the case with many, if not all, female musicians who come out of the gate with modesty/chastity etc. then the second or third album it's rebellion and sexual freedom with skin and s*x appeal etc. It's entirely predictable and very boring to me. As a grown woman now, I can only imagine that the 'empowering' part is maybe they finally get to enjoy a different kind of attention? She previously said she wears baggy clothes to detract from comments about her body. That shows that she fully understands the situation yet she now chooses to 'show skin' and label it empowering. It doesn't come across as authentic to me but the last thing she should be doing is caring about scrote opinions.

jackrusselterror1 · 2021-05-02T17:05:27+00:00

If posing for pictures in lingerie and being called a slut was truly empowering, we’d see straight middle aged and elderly white men in the 1% doing this while male editors suppressed women’s photos from ever being seen. The backlash would be the same as it was during any other key victory with women’s rights, but instead we can’t even look through a magazine or watch a tv show without seeing sexualized women everywhere. The patriarchy isn’t threatened whatsoever by sexy women because those beauty standards were designed by men, for men’s benefit, and the profit goes to men.

She’s pandering to men to make money and keep an audience, and while it’s beneficial to her career and probably what her label demands, it’s not benefiting women as a class, so it’s not a feminist act like she’s claiming. She’s playing into the patriarchy, not being rebellious like she thinks.

Edit to add: I’m not trying to bash her by disagreeing with her argument. She’s not the first women to make a statement equating empowerment to sexualized clothing, so this isn’t personal. I also doubt she has any real control over her style, image, brand, or music.

krba201076 · 2021-05-02T17:21:24+00:00

We knew it was coming. Whenever a teen girl is in the industry, They start off demure and then the pressures of those nasty pervy male executives get to them and they start taking off clothing.

Gloomy-Ad3145 · 2021-05-02T18:36:04+00:00

Sounds like brain-washed libfem bullshit. Literally all of this is for the male gaze. If you truly feel empowered dressing that way, you should ask yourself if it's really for you and do some real self-inventory. I'm over young women and girls being groomed into doing this.

Theboredshrimp · 2021-05-02T17:15:02+00:00

it's sad, she's playing the "I love my body therefore I will show my body" bs, pandering to the male gaze, looking like a pinup, and helping seclude women from real empowerement. She's young and must have caved in under the pressure, what's scary is how quickly the higher ups changed her image, she's just 19, it makes you question wether her past persona was real or just a way to make people anticipate her sexualization more.

spinsterchachkies · 2021-05-02T17:03:21+00:00

I feel uncomfortable honestly. It feels photoshopped and looks like she is pandering to the male gaze. I didn’t even recognize her. She can do what she wants, sure, but be real Billy, why you a different person now? You telling me a photoshopped picture of you looking like Scarlet Johansson with some uncomfortable girdle and a push-up bra is your way of “feeling good”. Like bish don’t lie to my face

luvmyvulvaxoxo · 2021-05-02T18:41:17+00:00

Honestly if anyone actually listened to the lyrics in her songs you’d know she’s been hyper sexualized for a long fucking time.

Wearing baggy clothes paired with her music was just a “look”. It was meant to be coy.

This cover is just the next step for a family who pimps their daughter.

2021-05-02T18:44:12+00:00

I posted this comment in another discussion thread about her:

I think people truly believe that “empowerment” looks like objectification for women. Men never wear revealing clothing to celebrate their success. Men don’t wear dick-enhancing clothing on magazine covers when they turn 18. They never appear naked or pose to enhance the angle of their ass. I never have witnessed a revealing photo of pecs and abs be called “empowering”.

A man poses shirtless on a magazine cover and everyone will say that he is catering to his female fan base.

A teenaged pop star poses in revealing clothing and we are to view this as a completely neutral occurrence. I don’t buy it.

We can uphold a woman’s autonomy while still being fully aware of the cultural misogyny and the consequences of being pigeonholed into a sexualized role. Female pop stars pose literally naked on their album covers and that’s normalized. Softcore porn is still porn. Even if it’s normalized we can still analyze the visual messages being communicated. You don’t show deep cleavage and expect “respect” to be the immediate male response. Expecting men to masturbate to your photos doesn’t give you any more power. Now you’re on the clock and will be discarded as soon as you don’t maintain your role as sex object.

PigeonCities · 2021-05-02T17:32:13+00:00

there's this one thing that irks me (that is in display here, but i've also seen everywhere else): the whole "if showing skin makes me a slut, then i AM a slut #empowered" dialogue. why isn't it "if showing skin makes me a slut, then there is something inherently wrong with the system and we need to fucking change it"? why are we "reclaiming" these insults and not fighting them? why aren't we shaming the men who call us sluts instead? why are we pretending that women showing their bodies on the covers of cosmo and vogue and all the magazines is revolutionary? why are we still looking at individuals making individual choices as the backbone of female emancipation, even when these choices directly harm other women? why the fuck are we so behind in terms of critical analysis???

in a society that strives to move away from rape-culture, women AREN'T sluts for showing skin. women AREN'T sluts, PERIOD. there's absolutely nothing empowering about being degraded on the basis of your sexuality, or even non-sexual nudity. i am so goddamn sick and tired of public figures pulling off this shit in the name of feminism because GUESS WHAT billie, you can reclaim the "slut" title and you'll get a couple thousand for the cover and interview - we get it, YOU'RE empowered. me and all the other women who go through life with this bullshit ass propaganda shoved down our throats about how we're supposed to cater to the male gaze or be socially stigmatized (because there's only really two choices) - your empowerment DISEMPOWERS us.

janeaustenfan99 · 2021-05-02T18:17:51+00:00

I think this was the plan all along. To make her seem edgy and cool with her tomboy thing, then start showing more skin once she gained a foothold.

2021-05-02T18:24:55+00:00

I feel like it's the new Miley Cirus. A woman hating society builds them up, only to tear them down.

companyofwolves · 2021-05-02T19:11:30+00:00

I just feel sad for her. She’s following the normal teen pop star trajectory, there’s nothing new about any of it. There are hardly any of them for the past few decades who start out underage who don’t do this kind of thing right after they‘re legal adults. She’s no different than any of the ones who have come before despite all her “woke” language (newsflash: those old pop stars who decided to take off their clothes after their 18th birthday ALSO spoke in the cool teen-approved parlance of the day. Just so happens that libfem nonsense is what the kids speak now).

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, unique about her that hasn’t been done since teen pop stars started.

She’s also dating someone who is almost 30. Take that however you want.

DisastrousSundae · 2021-05-02T18:55:07+00:00

It really is just a ticking clock once a famous woman turns 18, isn't it? How long it will take for her to take sexy publicized photos for the masses?

gainsental · 2021-05-02T17:01:46+00:00

well I guess she caved in and decided to perform femininity. Her tomboyish style and edgy attitude made her unique. The pressure is real to be "sex liberated" in Hollywood

NAthrowaway0613 · 2021-05-02T16:59:28+00:00

The craziest part is that she’s not even showing THAT much skin when it actually comes down to it. Even if she was showing more though that’s her choice and shouldn’t factor into her identity.

Men are going to be trash and sexualize the fuck out of her though and of course call her words like “whore” because any way to make a woman subhuman they jump on, and because she’s barely legal and not wearing a baggy T-shirt anymore so you know they’re perving out.

Tomoshaamoosh · 2021-05-02T17:01:25+00:00

Disappointed but not surprised. She’s literally a baby. She’s 19. I knew it would only be so long before the higher ups in the music industry would manipulate her to start second yo her image

ijustcantwithit · 2021-05-02T19:18:11+00:00

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t find wearing less clothes empowerment for anyone. The more revealing clothes were made for male benefit and not much will change my mind on that. Do I think women should dress like prudes? No, they should wear what they want. I just don’t believe revealing clothes are empowering when the male mind will sexualise you regardless of your intents.

cherrypepsilvr · 2021-05-02T19:28:56+00:00

The rallying call to other girls to be "sluts" and proud is disturbing.

Greendreem · 2021-05-02T16:55:44+00:00

I’m personally upset that she’s choosing the common industry route. I’m sick of women in the industry thinking it’s empowering to be half naked or look sexually appealing to men, when they aren’t even the people for whom they make music. Idk I just feel disappointed in Billie. But I’d love to discuss with the queens in here.

PossiblyJennay · 2021-05-02T18:36:46+00:00

My biggest problem with it is how aggressively cinched and photoshopped the waist is. That’s not empowering no matter how you slice it.

judithyourholofernes · 2021-05-02T18:41:17+00:00

She’s yielded to those around her, and when she profits off of her sexuality, men will say she deserved to be treated like a whore from the beginning.

It’s open season on whores, in men’s minds, they can’t say no anymore, sexual harassment doesn’t exist as it’s a joke to them to intimidate and cause them to fear for their safety. Seen it play out over and over. And the word whore is so arbitrary, it can apply to anyone a man has thought of having sex with in his vicinity.

They don’t take responsibility for what occupies their minds, that’s our (non)“power” over them and we should be punished for it. Virgins and kids included.

gingerwabisabi · 2021-05-02T17:37:09+00:00

I feel bad for her, she clearly struggles a lot with figuring out how to navigate her own sexuality (her desires) versus the overwhelming flood of patriarchy (male desires) combined with capitalism (money's desires). We all have a hard time with it, but barely legal celebs probably most of all. I wish she wouldn't give in to marketing pushes, because it does damage other women... but I also feel a lot of sympathy for her.

thinktwiceorelse · 2021-05-02T19:30:02+00:00

I'm not suprised. It eventually happens to every young female artists. It's like they decided when she debuted, that once she turns 18, it's gonna be about her body.

cherrypepsilvr · 2021-05-02T17:07:10+00:00

I don’t listen to Billie but I like that she made it so far without catering to the male gaze. That being said we can’t expect her to be in baggy clothing for the rest of her life. She did say she was self conscious of her body and was uncomfortable being objectified as an underage girl. People were vicious when she was spotted wearing a tank top when she looked absolutely fine. If she’s feeling confident and is doing this for herself without any external pressure from her label, management, etc. more power to her.

kami745 · 2021-05-02T17:00:27+00:00

Why does every female artist have to show skin ?

catifyy · 2021-05-02T19:57:54+00:00

Honestly? Could not tell that was her.. Media has aged these young girls up so much that they miss out on their youthful years..

FDS-GFY · 2021-05-02T18:06:45+00:00

She’s fallen victim to patriarchal norms. I don’t judge her for it-we have all done it.

LeighHolloway44 · 2021-05-02T17:51:32+00:00

News flash—she’s controlled by handlers, just like the rest of these pop stars.

kinnsao · 2021-05-02T17:32:45+00:00

So disappointing. She was truly unique with her style and keeping her sexuality out of the limelight to focus on her talent. This seems forced by higher ups, very sad, and very unnatural.

Charming-Bee-2337 · 2021-05-02T18:14:12+00:00

I understand her reaction. Men acted disgusting towards her, like thirsting over a paparazzi pic of her in a tank top because she normally wore baggy clothes and said she didnt want people to see her body. When she turned 18 people were looking her up on pornhub ect.

Shes probably doing this as a way to take back control. She felt like they were taking something she didnt want them to have so just giving it to them on your own free will feels more in control and powerful than having them take it from you anyway. Id probably react the same way honestly.

zazaleaz · 2021-05-02T19:21:51+00:00

She looks like a teenager who tried on some sexy clothes that’s way too old for her. It makes me uncomfortable as someone old enough to be her mother. But it makes me even more uncomfortable thinking about what men my age see when the look at this teenager.

It’s sad honestly. Her oversized style was so refreshing and unique. Now she looks like she took beauty lessons from a Kardashian.

ListenRare1028 · 2021-05-02T16:55:11+00:00

She can do what she wants. People shouldn’t be focusing on whether or not she’s showing skin and instead redirect their focus to her talent.

superderpina_ · 2021-05-02T16:56:36+00:00

Tbh i couldn‘t care less. She‘s so young, she is probably still exploring who she is.

pureRitual · 2021-05-02T18:08:08+00:00

I'm not big into turning things around and making them empowered, I think that's just what we hope happens, not what's actually happening. Instead, I demands respect. How about not calling me a slut or a bitch in the first place? How about you grow as a human being and respect me because I'm a fellow human being?

She can dress how ever she wants, but I don't think she's doing it for herself or for fellow women. Only one person will be drooling over those pics- straight men, and if there is any photoshop, it's making regular girls insecure and trying to achieve unrealistic views.

But I get being young and wanting to feel sexy, and wanting to be lusted over.

Big-Respond8481 · 2021-05-02T20:52:10+00:00

It is sad in a way. If she kept the style, she could've stood for empowerment by saying "I do not care what you think about my style".

With this change in style, the situation is double bad:

1)As a minor, she had to cover up more, implication is that grown men cannot control themselves around a girl or woman with skin- victim blaming of teenagers.

2)Now she, still a teen, can show skin and look like a woman and will be sexuslized "without penalty" by grown because now she is of age.

tellmesomething11 · 2021-05-02T17:18:03+00:00

She looks so pretty.

steeped_tea123 · 2021-05-02T18:38:22+00:00

I think her point is poorly articulated. It should just say "What I wear is my business. Fuck off".

XASTA123 · 2021-05-02T20:20:40+00:00

Ah yes, subjugating yourself to patriarchal beauty standards and giving men exactly what they want. soooo empowering. /s

TrixieFriganza · 2021-05-02T18:10:52+00:00

Wow she looks totally different and amazing, it's her body she looks like a powerful, beautiful woman. It would be different if she felt forced to dress like this to be popular but isn't she already very popular. I'm quessing that she's more growing up and she can't see herself in the other style anymore as she feels she's not a kid anymore, I think it's pretty strong to chance as I'm sure she must have known such a chance would give lots of critique. But what do I know, maybe without even thinking about it you feel that you have to dress in a certain way to attract guys, maybe someone adviced her to dress in this way to keep fans and she fell for it. So I can see this as both positive and negative, depends where it comes from and if it's what she herself actually wants or someone else.

It does look like it's to attract men though, specially this picture. It would be different if it was more a style chance. But honestly men sexualise her either way no matter how she dresses so maybe she's just saying fuck it.

tmb-2019 · 2021-05-02T19:24:19+00:00

Isn’t she barely 19 years old? She’s still young and growing and finding herself. This isn’t a scandalous picture by any means and men will jerk off to ankles if we start covering them up. Did y’all see that men were already jerking off to her fully clothed. As women, we’re dammed off we do and dammed if we don’t. As long as she’s finding her own style and happiness, I think it’s fine. We shouldn’t live constantly thinking about how to avoid the male gaze bc it’s literally impossible.

witchingsauce · 2021-05-02T19:30:04+00:00

At this point honest nudity showing imperfections would be much more empowering. Instead we get this heavily-photoshopped barely-recognizable image (I thought it was Scarlett Jo). Why doesn’t she feel empowered and great about herself without all the makeup and editing? When we reach that level of loving our bodies and skin (and especially knowing how many men are turned off by sagging, cellulite and pores) then we can argue baring it and being proud is empowerment and defiance. As it is, this is nothing but pandering.

annamae602 · 2021-05-02T19:24:07+00:00

[removed]

Title	What is everyone’s thoughts on Billie Eilish now “showing skin”? What does her defense make you feel?
Author	Greendreem
Upvotes	93
Comments	90
Date	May 2, 2021 4:51 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/n3ajm9/what_is_everyones_thoughts_on_billie_eilish_now/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/what-is-everyones-thoughts-on-billie-eilish-now.759563 https://theredarchive.com/post/759563

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