Was It Rape? A handy flowchart, courtesy of lawcomic.net.

Terraneaux · 2014-10-23T15:19:39+00:00

I like how it attacks the arguments of both the victim blamers and the 'sex I feel bad about is rape' types towards the end.

Dasque · 2014-10-23T15:25:10+00:00

Still not sure about this whole "we're both blackout drunk but only the woman was raped" thing. Otherwise a nice consolidated source.

AuMielEtAuxNoix · 2014-10-23T15:40:47+00:00

First things first. This part here is very important, a lot of women don't understand the difference it seems. Maybe you didn't really wanted it for some reason, but you agreed to it, it's not rape!

It gets ugly further down. This question answered in the affirmative, leads to this result... I don't get it, if you are way too drunk to know what you are doing, you won't know if you are doing something against someone's will.

This one is also weird. What is obvious for one isn't for the other and drunk people aren't know for their great judgment of others and self...

But the worst thing is that at the bottom, they say being too drunk to know what you are doing makes you a rapist but further up at that stage where you can't tell if she's out of it don't make you a rapist.

I'm so fucking confused at this chart, it needs some serious editing...

Oknatora · 2014-10-23T17:04:38+00:00

I disagree with the statutory rape though.

Pretty sure a 16 or 17 year old male or female can consent to having sex and know what they are doing.

If 17 is legal consent age, I'm pretty sure a 16 year old a month before their birthday would make the same decision.

matthewxknight · 2014-10-23T17:44:16+00:00

I'm completely incapable of summing up the vast number of girls I've heard in college refer to regrettable sex as rape. Furthermore, I myself discovered recently that one of my ex-girlfriends calls the one time we had sex rape, and it's spread all throughout her sorority. Luckily, my fraternity brothers and many of the frat guys in other fraternities have experienced similar situations and we all know not to worry about it. She and I were both coherent and sober, she came on to me, put the condom on for me, and proceeded... yet she calls it rape to make her seem like an innocent little angel and not a slut to later guys in her life. Granted, I understand that part of her reasoning probably boils down to the "slut" stigma still quite frequently placed on females if they have sex before marriage, but it doesn't justify her labeling me a rapist.

minerlj · 2014-10-23T17:50:48+00:00

so acts that don't include penetration aren't rape?

Everything_Is_Rape · 2014-10-23T16:37:42+00:00

This chart is overly complex for a very simple question:

Q: Were you raped? A: Yes, yes you were.

pizzaISpizza · 2014-10-23T16:29:31+00:00

Did the other person know they were having sex with you against your will --> No --> You were not raped.

While that'd be nice, if true, I'm pretty sure the State of California disagrees.

kikowatzy · 2014-10-23T17:01:33+00:00

Not bad. I thought it was interesting how it said that even if you didn't say "yes" to sex, if the other person didn't know you didn't want it, it's not rape.

mrwhibbley · 2014-10-23T18:43:08+00:00

So the last line on the left column should make both people rapists.

JohnF30 · 2014-10-23T23:08:13+00:00

What if both parties decide they want to have drunken sex together?

illyafromuncle · 2014-10-23T19:59:18+00:00

The old I didn't know she was retarded defense

Sepherchorde · 2014-10-23T21:24:02+00:00

Wait, according to this flowchart (unless I missed something) if there was literally no resistance, no statement of no, no awareness on the part of the other party that you were inebriated/didn't want it, it's still rape? That is... odd. For the person to know they need to stop, they need to know that they need to stop...

50PercentLies · 2014-10-23T18:15:26+00:00

Mentally disabled people cannot have sex, ever, apparently.

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2014-10-23T21:47:29+00:00

I wonder if this is posted on any feminist subs or feeds. It would be really interesting to see their reaction to it. While we most often SEE the hateful sexist bigots of feminism, and feminists reaction to MRA is contempt and loathing, if presented as neutral I'm really not sure what their reaction would be. It contains many things they talk about like "Did you ever actually say NO?" doesn't matter, it's rape. And "Did you regret it in the morning?" isn't a position they knowingly advocate for.

YabuSama2k · 2014-10-23T22:35:28+00:00

I think it is really important for our society to define what is and is not rape. When you combine this lack of discussion with the incredibly incendiary (and often completely fabricated) statistics on rape, people get a kind of "rape panic" where they seem to see rape everywhere.

I am the first guy to step up to combat sexual assault. I have taught hundreds of free self defense classes for women and I care deeply about the women in my family. This kind of hysteria just makes it easier for the small percentage of sociopath rapists to operate.

Lawtonfogle · 2014-10-24T01:44:48+00:00

Did they know they were having sex against your will -> rape -> Doesn't matter if they were too drunk to know what they were doing.

What?

If they were too drunk to know what they were doing, then you would have never gotten on the branch.

Also, the whole statutory rape thing fails to take into account two minors or when federal laws apply and a whole bunch of other complications. Better to have 'were you under 18' and then just say 'consult a lawyer'.

2014-10-24T14:51:40+00:00

The last statement on the left is not necessarily correct. Some jurisdictions, mine included, allow for the defense of automatism. It's very difficult to prove but if you can show you were patently incapable of forming the intent to engage in any act, sex included, then the mens rea of the crime is not present.

From an ethical standpoint the victim there was certainly still raped but given this was posted to lawcomic.net I doubt that's what they were going for.

/not legal advice

/not your lawyer

DavidByron2 · 2014-10-23T16:35:27+00:00

In fact this flow chart is self-contradictory.

The last decision question is "Did the other person know (emphasis theirs) they were having sex with you against your will?" But further on down the "yes" branch it says this:

Was the other person too drunk to know what they were doing?

Clearly this contradicts the question, "Did the other person know (emphasis theirs) they were having sex with you against your will?" So if the answer to that question -- they were too drunk to know what they were doing -- is yes, then according to the flow chart, it wasn't rape.

TheRealMouseRat · 2014-10-23T15:33:55+00:00

well, this was straight forward and easy to understand. thumbs up from me.

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2014-10-23T20:40:39+00:00

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Stephen1985 · 2014-10-23T21:52:42+00:00

I have an even easier test.

If you have to ask or be told if you were raped then you weren't raped.

Mahza · 2014-10-23T23:04:24+00:00

Women will call anything rape. Hell feminist call a man killing a woman in halo rape. Nowadays ever single woman is "raped". Hense....im gay

moonroots64 · 2014-10-24T04:11:05+00:00

"Did the other person know they were having sex with you against your will" - YES = Rapist

"Was the person too drunk to know what they were doing?" = Rapist

So the first one I get. But the second one is crazy, if someone is so drunk they "don't know what they were doing" then that person MAY have raped, but it isn't by definition rape. So 2 drunk coeds get freaky, and they both raped each other? Why should we apply a term like rape (meant to capture violent forced sexual penetration) to 2 drunk people making a possible mistake? Rape is very serious, sexual assault and sexually taking advantage people is also serious, but also different. We need to stop focusing on the word "rape" as a catch-all for any sexual misdeed.

To be clear: rapists are scum and worse. But we need a vocabulary that differentiates drunk hookups and sexual opportunism from what I morally consider the full rape of another person. Having sex with a very drunk person is EXTREMELY different than targeting, tracking, and forcibly raping another person. Or am I wrong?

theskepticalidealist · 2014-10-24T10:52:54+00:00

According to the chart: If you were too drunk, you were raped, but if they were also too drunk you raped them.

HereWeJoeAgain · 2014-10-24T13:44:23+00:00

How can you have "Did the other person know they were having sex with you against your will" followed by "Was the other person too drunk to know what they were doing"?

CertusAT · 2014-10-23T15:19:18+00:00

Looks fine to me.

Dasque · 2014-10-23T15:21:30+00:00

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cubicledrone · 2014-10-24T00:08:41+00:00

Did you have sex? Yes?
Do you know not like the guy? Yes?
You were not only raped. It was a war crime.

DavidByron2 · 2014-10-23T16:28:28+00:00

Actual flow chart:

Are you male? -- yes - you were not raped

Are you female -- yes - you were raped if you want to say you were raped.

If you didn't answer "yes" to either question then you're a freak so see answer for "male".

Hrel · 2014-10-23T17:37:35+00:00

Only problem I have with this is the whole "I was drunk so it was rape" thing. You made the choice to GET drunk, therefore only YOU are responsible for any and all decisions you make while drunk.

If you murder someone while drunk you don't get away with it because you "weren't in the right state of mind to make decisions".

Siiimo · 2014-10-23T16:08:14+00:00

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Hedhunta · 2014-10-23T16:31:04+00:00

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kaluh_glarski · 2014-10-23T16:40:13+00:00

bravo

Step_Your_Gains_Up · 2014-10-24T03:59:56+00:00

Its sad a flow chart had to be made.

gyiparrp · 2014-10-24T11:34:19+00:00

Wow, that's bullshit.

--"Did you want to have sex"-- WRONG QUESTION. Bah.

There's lots more wrong to this. Basically it treats sex as some kind of inherent criminal act that must be agreed to beforehand.

2014-10-23T19:09:38+00:00

Oh oh, it said if you regret having sex it wasn't rape. Prepare for a feminist berzerko witch hunt.

2014-10-23T19:31:24+00:00

I can distill this WAY down. Did you have sex with a man? Yes - - - > YOU WERE RAPED!

infernalsatan · 2014-10-24T04:41:35+00:00

Feminists be like "All sexual intercourse is rape unless I say is not"

Was It Rape? A handy flowchart, courtesy of lawcomic.net.

Comments

Dutch law

Legal age filming of or paying for sex: 18

Legal age for any softdrugs: 18

Title	Was It Rape? A handy flowchart, courtesy of lawcomic.net.
Author	nick012000
Upvotes	1318
Comments	252
Date	October 23, 2014 2:33 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2k3jdk/was_it_rape_a_handy_flowchart_courtesy_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/was-it-rape-a-handy-flowchart-courtesy-of.994355 https://theredarchive.com/post/994355