Why does pro choice go right out the window when it revolves around men or children?

LettuceBeGrateful · 2021-06-30T15:14:47+00:00

Funny you mention that. I was recently banned from r/pregnant, which claims to be "pro-choice" and "proudly feminist" for advocating for the right of men to choose what happens to their own genitals.

Image 1

Image 2 (I probably don't even need to point out how this mod is blaming MRAs for feminists' opinions. The stupidity speaks for itself.)

The pro-choice rule we're discussing

And here is the sticky

Drippinice · 2021-06-30T17:17:31+00:00

Pretty much every “pro-choice” person I’ve brought this up to has said something like “well he shouldn’t have had sex then!” They truly don’t even comprehend that men should have a choice

Fun_Manufacturer4099 · 2021-06-30T13:54:57+00:00

I find pro choice is a one sided deal. In my years I have been on both sides of this. In the first instance of an "accidental preganancy", I was forced to pay child support for a baby I never wanted. I later found out that it was on purpose and the woman wanted it. On the other side of the coin a few years later. A woman I loved very much again "accidentally became pregnant" and chose to abort against my decision to want to keep the baby and even offering to raise the child on my own. I grieved and felt helpless in the situation for months after.

There is more to my story with children later where I was coerced into believing women were on the pill when they were not. I take full responsibility for my idiotic beliefs in trust should be the foundation of a relationship. I have supported all my children and taken responsibility for my actions, no matter how stupid I was. But, I never had a choice as a man. I was even caught up in a two year battle over a step father liability clause where I had to pay over 1000.00 per month for children who were not mine. All because I dated a single mother. We were never married but in the eyes of the court, they were doing what was in the best interest of the children as the biological father was out of work. After paying the support for two years and spending well over 20k in legal fees, it finally ended when I got the father a job with the company I worked for. I never received a dime of the money back.

I support the fact that it is a woman's body and it is her choice but that being said, if she can choose to abort against the man's wishes. That is her choice. If she chooses to keep the baby against a man's wishes, it should be her responsibility and solely her responsibility.

blueXcat · 2021-06-30T13:51:58+00:00

Feminists aren't pro choice. They are pro choice for women

alway122 · 2021-06-30T12:52:27+00:00

Because it isn't about being philosophically or ethically pro-choice at all, it's a buzzword used to affirm the current zeitgeist like every other pro-____ or anti-_____

LiberalCombatVet · 2021-06-30T14:12:07+00:00

I'm pro-choice all the way. It's the woman's body, she gets to chose to have the kid or not. However, if she makes the choice to have it against my wishes, then let her support the child. If it's 100% her choice it should also be 100% her financial responsibility.

YouLookGoodInASmile · 2021-06-30T13:36:07+00:00

Oh im 100% pro choice, all the way.

but i believe men should have a say. I believe if their baby was aborted they should be able to grief and take time off of work or school. If they dont want the child they shouldnt need to pay child support if they choose not to.

Rawrtherton · 2021-06-30T14:58:28+00:00

“pro choice” is a marketing term. what it represents is a woman’s access to abortion. no more and no less.

angst45678 · 2021-07-01T05:51:33+00:00

Let's all try to understand that according to most women, men are just a combination of an ATM and a fuck machine. Why should they have any rights?

shithppms · 2021-06-30T18:21:30+00:00

absolutely right. im leaning more towards the pro life however if two people in a relationship are leaning more to the pro choice it should be a two people choice. i got downvoted af on this sub because that was my argument https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/nzhhbf/wibta_if_i_push_for_the_10k_in_child_support_that/h1rrzpp/?context=3

my comment was this

''however if you tell your partner that you do not want to be a dad it is up to her to get the abortion or not. the chance to get pregnant is there but so is the chance of getting the abortion or being a single parent, then she shouldnt have had sex too by that logic. it is not the fact that her body her choice, it is a two people choice since it affects both of their lives in a major way. please come up with better points the next time.''

anyway this was a rant comment sorry

KamadoJonathan · 2021-06-30T14:06:12+00:00

I'm half pro choice. While I believe women should have the right to choose, men should be able to opt out of responsibility if they want (it would reduce the amount of women trying to baby trap a man)

That being said, it's one thing to get the abortion where you take the pill and bleed at home. I have a huge problem with it if you're 6 months along and have the perfect baby bump and suddenly decide it's time to terminate.

Also, abortion should be a last resort. Not something you hand them a punch card and your 13th abortion is free, like my local donut shop does.

scifiburrito · 2021-06-30T16:16:23+00:00

i mean it doesn’t make sense for men to be able to choose if a woman gives birth or not (like making a woman who doesn’t want to.. give birth).

that being said, men should have the choice to declare whether they want to pay child support or not before the baby is born (nearest to when the pregnancy is first discovered).

edit: i’m talking about couples who aren’t married

TheGodOFnoOne · 2021-06-30T15:39:35+00:00

Because men are money machines in eyes of law , as long as that money is being looted in form of social development they can fuck your life however they see fit

Hollowhowler100 · 2021-06-30T16:58:47+00:00

Financial abortions should be a thing, if a man doesn’t want to have a child and a woman can get an abortion he should not have to pay

LastRounder · 2021-06-30T12:46:16+00:00

Because laws around abortion topics were created in stone age. Kidding.

They were created in times, when safe means of contraception were not that widespread. But law is a slow-changing thing, so they are totally stupid in modern times, when you can buy pills and condoms in a supermarket.

But people apply same rhetoric about "my body my choice". I think it is fucked up. Baby has body too, you know.

But it will screw up feminists, because they now just want all boons and zero responsibility.

I think, that laws should be updated. I think father has to have say, up to veto right on abortion. (Except medical reasons and result of rape,ofc). Within definite time frame.

If father is against, and is willing to take care of a child till came of age, and mother aborts the child against his will without any medical reasons, she should be charged with infanticide. I belive, that would happen, if a man would forcefully abort a child who he does not want, but mother does want.

Same goes for circumcision. I think,that doctor, that performs such an operation without written consent of both parents (if avaliable) should be charged as if he mutilated a child with all said consequences, like imprisonment (for life, if needed), or electric chair,if state laws allow it. Several such cases will teach doctors and nurses really quick.

Harsh? Yes. Just? Yes. Because dura lex sed ex. Because enough single-handed decisions. Enough irresponsible decisions. They want equality? Good. Let them take it and see if they will manage to swallow it.

OctaviaPinfold · 2021-06-30T17:02:59+00:00

Nothing will change as long as the default as far as every politician, wherever they stand on abortion, is concerned is that the circumstances don't matter, the father is responsible for the money and the mother is responsible for raising the kid. Pretty much this is the bedrock of a notion feminism is so against, gender roles, but only as long as it benefits them.

Personally I think a father should only be legally responsible for the kid if he and his partner were planning it or they're still in a relationship when the kid is born.

BrokenDeity1 · 2021-07-01T01:19:46+00:00

Try bringing up that women can opt out of parental enslavement by killing their unborn while men still end up enslaved through child support.

Pro-choicers are just as scummy and hypocritical as pro-lifers.

NurseDTCM · 2021-07-01T03:08:51+00:00

A conversation should be had between the two who made the baby. I think a compromise can be made for sure.

I have one son and I said I don’t want anymore children. Didn’t circumcise my son because it’s not my penis.

michaelpaoli · 2021-07-01T07:16:44+00:00

mutilation in baby boys

May depend upon jurisdiction and other factors, but probably in most(?), that's a decision both parents have equal right/control and say over.

But ... that mutilation ought not be happening ... most notablly at least non-consensually (notably to a minor). But that's a topic for r/Intactivists / r/Intactivism.

DuPhuc · 2021-07-01T08:29:56+00:00

If she can pick if the baby lives i can pick wether i have to be involved or pay child support

LegendaryEmu1 · 2021-07-02T12:46:32+00:00

For some reason, because the woman goes through pregnancy, they make 100% of the decisions, you lose rights to your sperm after it exits your body.

Its why there have been boys who were literally raped, but forced to pay child support to a criminal who raped them. If it was the other way around it would be classified as a human rights violation.

TraehNoil · 2021-07-06T17:19:53+00:00

Forced child support is criminal. And when you tell women if they can have the right to abort, men should have the right to not pay. They’ll always respond well it’s our bodies. Ya it’s also men’s bodies that we have to go to work and do back breaking labor to pay the child support.

squincherella · 2021-07-11T17:49:58+00:00

Agreed!!! I believe that if(and they should have) woman have a right to an abortion, say for example the law lets you abort up to 4 months pregnant, the man should have the right to "abort" his parental rights without any CS or other implications up to 4 month into the pregnancy.

"Oh, but that forces the mother to raise it alone?" Well, she can make the choice to abort it or raise it alone KNOWING what she is getting into.... a man should have the same right to "abort" as the woman, but without control over the woman's body-the physical abortion should be her choice alone. But he should not be forced into parenthood, if the woman has a chance at an "out", so should he. Way too many females I know use custody against men just to be petty and even get pregnant on purpose to always ensure they have a link to that man knowing courts usually side with them.

VeganPropaganda_ · 2021-06-30T11:45:58+00:00

are you advocating for pro life or banning circumcision in boys?

DanteLivra · 2021-06-30T16:46:18+00:00

Because men don't have access to consent. The privilege to consent (to sex, parenthood, mutilation) is exclusive to women. This need to change.

AG_N · 2021-06-30T12:08:31+00:00

I am all for pro choice but if men want they can walk away

BeastMcQueen · 2021-06-30T18:16:21+00:00

People don't care about men. It is that simple.

BloodyTamponExtracto · 2021-06-30T17:24:24+00:00

Because it's not pro-choice, it's pro-abortion.

ThrowawayGhostGuy1 · 2021-06-30T15:48:35+00:00

Because it was never about choice.

storming_bridgeboy · 2021-06-30T23:39:25+00:00

In the words of Dave Chappelle, “if you can kill the kid I can at least abandon the fucker.”

lool-g-lool · 2021-06-30T16:13:08+00:00

The birth of the child is up to the person birthing the child from their body, period.

Reddit_Sux_Hardcore · 2021-06-30T15:29:23+00:00

Yup, pro-choice is really just woman-choice. I hate it.

Rainbowdash5ever · 2021-06-30T16:44:09+00:00

If you want to eliminate the possibility of your child being aborted by the woman bearing it, i would suggest you stop having sex with women.

Age_Terrible · 2021-06-30T15:35:24+00:00

If it helps, a great many states are removing the right for women too.

DangerousEstimate610 · 2021-06-30T15:53:03+00:00

I dislike my mother because she is a former feminist now she doesn't believe in movement but her friends annoy me the most I hate all of them

DavidByron2 · 2021-06-30T17:17:31+00:00

Well feminists don't really believe in the rights of an individual to determine their own future... the whole "body" thing is just weird really. And just an excuse to mold abortion as an issue into a tool to thump men over the head.

z770i1 · 2021-06-30T19:40:38+00:00

In regards to accidental pregnancies, pro choice does not go out the window. A woman should get to decide whether to give birth or not. Are we really saying a man should be able to compel a woman to have an abortion she doesn't want to have? That would be a total infringement of her rights. If you want to debate whether the father should pay for the child's care once they are born, then fine. I have no idea what you are talking with boys' genital mutilation (I assume you mean circumcision) . If you somehow have evidence that the father has no say over that procedure, I would love to see it.

lestratege · 2021-06-30T23:29:16+00:00

Because it is pro CHOICE, not pro responsibility.

Women don't want to be held responsible for the consequences of their actions if they dislike the consequences.

It's like teenagers: they want to be in charge but if shit hit the fan, daddy is called.

Women don't want freedom, they want the perks of freedom. They are like that for everything: they don't want to work, they want the perks of working. They don't want relationships, etc.

It's their stark inability to understand reasons and consequences (which is why astrology is so popular among them).

I would say it's a cop out above their helplessness. They play pretend because they cannot do it for real.

Quick_Appointment_82 · 2021-07-02T19:13:48+00:00

It doesn't go out the window, pro-choice is based on the 'my body my choice' idea. It is not the man's body, it is therefor not the man's choice. This is not hard surely. Nobody can force a women to end a pregnancy, or carry through with it. Fucking somebody does not give you any standing over what they do with their body afterwards.

After the baby is born, the man does have a choice, he can choice to be a father, including having input into subjects like circumcision and educational choices.

Or he can decide he doesn't want to be a father, in which case, depending on the finances of the mother, he can be forced to pay child support because the interest of the child outweigh the interest of the father OR the mother.

If you don't want this to happen, rejoice, there are amply opportunities for men to control their fertility, not fucking, wearing a condom, and reversible sterilizations aren't expensive.

SirSobek · 2021-07-04T11:46:47+00:00

A fear of mine (maybe irrational idk) is if I have a child with someone and they get the child aborted without my consent. I just don't understand the willingness to kill your own blood. Additionally, losing custody of my kids in family court.

I am not married or anything; I am just thinking of the future and my one of my life dreams is to be a great father and the dad I never had.

get_funkd · 2021-06-30T22:12:12+00:00

The argument for “pro choice” revolves around what control a woman should have over her body not around the child inside of her or the obligation of parenthood.

If a women is pregnant pro-choicers see it as her right to terminate pregnancy at will as it’s her body at jeopardy and affect of the pregnancy. Not wether if she has an obligation to continue mother hood or if abortion should be considered murder.

Which is why pro-choicers don’t see men having a say in this matter as the man does not have a physical connection to the pregnancy just an abstract one (fiscally, parental etc.)

welcometothejl · 2021-06-30T13:26:55+00:00

I see a lot of people on here advocate that men should be able to choose to walk away from a baby that they don't want because women have the right to choose. While I understand the frustration, in practice that would mean a man could have as much unprotected sex as he wanted, and as many babies as he wanted without consequences related to pregnancy. That creates an unfair scenario for women.

IMO, a better solution would be to allow men to be equal parents as long as they are a responsible law abiding person, and if they choose to be an equal parent, they should not have to pay any child support.

theoracleofosiris · 2021-07-01T00:16:32+00:00

Because society is gynocentric and hypocritical and is sustained on male exploitation. Break the cycle. Mgtow.

blank_stare_shrug · 2021-07-01T01:50:05+00:00

Welcome to the matriarchy. Now go get a job that you have to leave at the ass crack of dawn for so she can get some dick before she goes about her day.

Camdennn · 2021-07-01T04:11:31+00:00

because we allowed women to vote.

TexasDutch · 2021-07-01T05:20:09+00:00

Because you don’t force the issue

qwrrty · 2021-06-30T22:49:11+00:00

You should have exactly as much say in how your body is used as the mother has in how her body is used.

If the mother who’s growing a zygote into a baby wants to continue doing it, then she should. You don’t get to demand she has an abortion.

If you too are growing a baby inside your body, then you get to be the one who has exclusive say in what happens to your body.

Pretty simple.

blazedagamer · 2021-06-30T17:45:21+00:00

Murdering babies isn’t right no matter who it involves.

Damn_Ur_Ugly · 2021-06-30T16:11:22+00:00

I dunno. Probably because women have been historically unable to make their own choices while, in general, men have never had their choices taken from them?

You're responsible for your choice to have sex despite knowing the consequences.

You can blame religion for circumcision.

EgalitarianFacts · 2021-06-30T17:32:37+00:00

These are just two of the many horrifyingly sexist positions that women in The West hold.

TAPriceCTR · 2021-07-01T04:50:07+00:00

Because th no matter how much they protest, it's fetucide, not choice, they support.

conspirized · 2021-06-30T19:46:01+00:00

Well... technically there is a choice for circumcision. It's just that decision gets made by the parents, like all decisions about medical procedures before you're a legal adult.

As for pregnancy, we don't carry children - so there's no choice to be made. I think you're referring to parenting, a situation in which you absolutely do have a choice - it's just that having a kid with the wrong gal can make following through on that choice a bitch and a half.

ARKNORI · 2021-06-30T16:20:05+00:00

I don't know how a woman not having to go through the painful and tiring process of having a child she does not want infringes men's rights.

It's literally not hapenning to us, if they don't want to have a baby we can find a woman willing to have one or adopt one of the many ones who don't have a father.

If we were the ones giving birth I'd understand, but nothing is actually hapenning to us. As for the boys, abortion is only legal before the fetus develops most brain tissue needed for sentience, so I wouldn't cry a lot about them specially when many children around the world are worth crying for.

All those little mans having to work before finishing high school to support their poor families or the ones who can't choose their dream job because they can't afford it? Those deserve a choice, don't worry about the ones that haven't even been made yet.

Bernard245 · 2021-06-30T13:09:04+00:00

So, in all fairness, it's their body. Even though the kid might be your by-product, whether you intended it or not, whether or not she carries that child to term is her decision first and anyone else's suggestion second.

When you carry the baby, and run the risk of dying during childbirth, then you also can take that decision into your own hands regardless of how your community will judge you for your choice for the rest of your life.

If you are trying to say she somehow spoofed the pregnancy or something, then get a paternity test to verify it's yours and make your case in court. You will get a bad shake in family court, but that's the real issue at hand in these matters.

Mysterious-Dirt-6506 · 2021-06-30T15:32:12+00:00

Fathers have no say on circumcision?

Gingerchaun · 2021-06-30T11:49:28+00:00

You think a father should have the right to terminate a fetus against the mothers will?

microraptor223 · 2021-06-30T12:46:14+00:00

If you don't want a child don't cum it a vagina. The very thing that makes a child. Why do you support the ability for men to cum wherever they want and not have to help any child they may create? Do you care more about men cumming in vaginas than children?

BobDolomite · 2021-06-30T15:20:41+00:00

You had a choice to wear a condom.

bitterbloodorange · 2021-06-30T12:14:37+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sj20442 · 2021-06-30T23:41:19+00:00

It's only the woman's baby/body if she wants to kill it. If not, it's still her baby but also the man's responsibility.

michaelpaoli · 2021-07-01T07:09:21+00:00

Accidental pregnancy and father has no choice

He had plenty of choices before the pregnancy.

Once somebody gets pregnant, that choice mostly goes to the one carrying it. Maybe someday that will or might also be him, but in the meantime ...

responsibility of a choice the mother made

Oh, both are fully and equally responsible. But once somebody gets pregnant, that choice mostly goes to the one carrying it. Get the fetus implanted in his abdomen so he can carry and birth it - then we can talk about how it's his choice and not hers ... not there yet, but ...

IDoBeEatingCheese · 2021-07-01T08:57:37+00:00

The choice should be for both biological parents if its an accidental pregnancy. If the woman decides to keep the baby but isn't financial stable to do so, then the man has absolute all right to go against it. Yes, it's a life you're bringing to the planet. But is it a life worth living, is it a life YOU would want to live as a kid? Also, circumcision is sometimes religion base. In that point of view, you cant do anything about it. Same goes for when it's a medical matter. But other than that, please leave that choice to the kid when it's older and when it can make it's own decisions, just be open to it.

sonofsuperman1983 · 2021-06-30T23:01:46+00:00

Men should be encourage to freeze their sperm then get the snip

IncendiaryBullet · 2021-07-01T03:52:11+00:00

What about not being pro choice either way lmao

Title	Why does pro choice go right out the window when it revolves around men or children?
Author	z770i1
Upvotes	1537
Comments	592
Date	June 30, 2021 11:15 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/oav5db/why_does_pro_choice_go_right_out_the_window_when/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-does-pro-choice-go-right-out-the-window-when.825183 https://theredarchive.com/post/825183

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