Hypergamy is serious topic that woke and bluepilled people uncomfortable and they are unwilling to take seriously, analyze, and discuss the issue.

chamomilecloud · 2026-06-12T12:40:08+00:00

OP, you must debate others on your thread otherwise it will be removed.

ta06012022 · 2026-06-12T13:39:20+00:00

Since women want at least equal and ideally up, their dating pool is shrinking. But it is not men doing the shrinking.

If the dating pool were shrinking, you would expect fewer women to find partners. But that's not what's happening. The percentage of young Americans married or living with a partner fell sharply during the Great Recession, flat lined around 2014, then started to rebound slightly by 2019.

I've seen tons of fit, conventionally attractive men with "mid", overweight, or even "ugly" women.

And I've seen conventionally attractive women with with "mid", overweight, or even "ugly" men. Google "average SEC couple meme". As someone who went to a southern university, the meme is hilariously true. It's not the norm or anything, but you see these exceptions and think wtf.

In general though, men and women tend to date comparably attractive people. Half of American women are legally married or living with a partner by 26. If they're all dating up significantly, we would have an ever growing surplus of attractive single women, because the men are all picking less attractive options. That's not reality, but of course there are exceptions.

Despite all the progress women have made, they still cling to certain "patriarchal" ideals. And one of them is that the man she's with has to be better than her. Bigger, stronger, richer.

Part of this boils down to the fact that different women think different things. Some women are progressive while others are traditional. Those traditional women do tend to still see men as providers. So yes, there's been progress, but that doesn't mean every woman is bought into it.

The "bigger, stronger" part isn't a patriarchal ideal. It's primal human attraction. Women are physically attracted to men who are bigger and stronger. Progress doesn't change that.

Lysa_Bell · 2026-06-12T09:27:22+00:00

Hypergamy isnt really about having someone "better" nowadays. It is about someone that can give you the guarantee that they will be able to keep up your lifestyle when you have to sacrifice your income to pop out children. And the more educated and financially free women become the more the partner has to be able to balance that out.

For women that dont want children that doesnt matter. When I met my husband he didn't have income, he didnt had a drivers license and he basically had nothing. I didn't care. I dont have to depend on him for my lifestyle. Because I dont want children.

My country is currently rolling back protection for caregivers. Up until now you could've been health insured via your partner if you are the caretaker of a child. Now the caretaker has to pay their own part of health insurance. We also have a retirement point system. Usually you could earn retirement points by caretaking of children and/or family members. They are trying to abolish this. Which influences when people go into retirement and how much they would get from it.

I dont think men really understand the economic sacrifices a woman usually has to calculate if she wants to have a family. Thats where the hypergamy comes in. Because lets he real - relationships aren't actually 50/50 if you want a family. And studies show it is the woman that is sacrificing the most. But for some reason a lot of men don't want to have an actual conversation about the details all of this entails. The amount of men that say they want children without actually thinking about the long term consequences is wild to me.

OffTheRedSand · 2026-06-12T11:53:42+00:00

the other day we literally had a post by a dude saying "older men should date young women, it's the only option left"

now we BOTH KNOW that it's not the last option left, it's just what bro wanted.

and this is true in your cases too, males also want these women too, a young woman dating an older man is hypergamy on BOTH sides. at this point this isn't hypergamy but consent.

these two people consented to be with each other, who are you to say who's more hypergamous? because the old dude is probably way less good looking than her so he's also hypergamous. so now what? every relationships is hypergamous from each side?

the word has lost it's meaning. if everything is hypergamy and everyone is hypergamous then hypergamy doesn't really exist, or it's inconsequential.

Present-Afternoon-70 · 2026-06-12T12:59:58+00:00

This is exactly the kind of thinking that makes red-pill discussions so detached from reality.

You're taking the completely ordinary observation that people like desirable traits and treating it as proof of hypergamy.

The problem is that actual humans don't select partners from the entire population. They select from the people they meet. People overwhelmingly meet partners through school, work, hobbies, friends, neighborhoods, religious communities, and social circles.

That means people tend to marry others with similar educations, similar incomes, similar lifestyles, similar values, and similar backgrounds because those are the people they're actually around.

The Harvard graduate doesn't spend their day surrounded by Dollar Tree cashiers. The Dollar Tree cashier doesn't spend their day surrounded by Harvard graduates. Most relationships form inside social networks, not from some nationwide draft where women get to pick any man in America.

This is why assortative mating is one of the most consistent findings in relationship research. People cluster with people similar to themselves. That's the norm. That's what most marriages look like.

Red-pill spaces keep pointing at the exceptions and pretending they're the rule. Yes, some women marry up. Some men marry up. Some people get trophy spouses. None of that changes the fact that most couples are remarkably similar in education, class, income, values, and attractiveness.

The funniest part is that your own examples don't even support your conclusion. If hypergamy were the dominant force you claim it is, we should see women routinely pairing far above their own socioeconomic level. Instead we mostly see teachers marrying teachers, office workers marrying office workers, nurses marrying tradesmen, engineers marrying engineers, and college graduates marrying other college graduates.

"People prefer desirable partners" is not a revelation. It's just normal human behavior. Turning that into a grand theory that women are uniquely pursuing higher-status partners requires ignoring how relationships actually form in the real world.

AmandaPea · 2026-06-12T18:15:38+00:00

No need to catastrophize, my guy - hypergamy has been on a steady decline since the 1960s.

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Lift_and_Lurk · 2026-06-12T12:18:02+00:00

Ah another “I observe” which always means “do nothing but look at social media content”

“The manosphere constructed an elaborate fiction of a world that doesn’t exist, and convinced people they must engage and do battle with the fictionalized women within it. “

s0ngsforthedeaf · 2026-06-12T13:23:33+00:00

Despite all the progress women have made, they still cling to certain "patriarchal" ideals. And one of them is that the man she's with has to be better than her. Bigger, stronger, richer. As cheesy as this sounds, this narrative still not only exists but thrives.

I dont think anyone claiming that being wealthy, fit and strong, or good looking arent attractive. Its that internalising those things over: being kind and loving, fun to hang around with, responsible and mature, emotional intelligence etc. makes for a self centred, egotistical, cold and angry man. Being wealthy, like being strong, is attractive. Whats not attractive is thinking you are everyrhing because you have those things.

I know this part of pure anecdote but I'm quite shocked with what I see these days in the outside world. Women nowadays are dating up even in the looks department. It's amazing what you can achieve when you don't budge and the other party is desperate. ***I've seen tons of fit, conventionally attractive men with "mid", overweight, or even "ugly" women. What youth and beauty is to women, height and status is to men.

...people like to date, like to be in relationships. Sometimes a couple is a hot girl with an average dude, slmetimes its vice versa. Redpill is very cringe for overcategorising this. There isnt a secret code to every male/female relation. Its just people liking relationships and finding someone compatible/available.

y2kjanelle · 2026-06-12T23:47:52+00:00

We don’t have these conversations because we are working and have bills to pay. We aren’t unemployed single young men dropping out of college at alarming rates and refusing to get a job so much they make a name for it NEET.

We are at work just to be splitting bills with our lovers if we have one, living paycheck to paycheck like the majority of other Americans with not enough money for a $500 emergency expense.

The average age gap is 2-3 years most couples have both partners working and they split bills according to their income which isn’t that disparate. Even alimony rates are at 10% with 90% of cases having no spousal support at all because no one even earns that much.

Hypergamy exists for the insta thots you follow on instagram. The regular average women working stressed about bills are women you don’t notice because you’re either at home or they’re not attractive enough for you to notice.

ChadChasingBReturns · 2026-06-12T12:43:29+00:00

I was told I was marrying up to a man with 1% of my net worth, less social status, and the same level of attractiveness. Why? Because he’s 6 inches taller than me. 🙄 No, l can’t take the argument of hypergamy seriously. Being taller as a man is a sexually dimorphic trait. We’re both significantly taller than the average. Soon it will be hypergamy because he has a penis and she doesn’t. I really have no idea what you people want from women when you talk about this bs.

esdebah · 2026-06-12T10:08:01+00:00

I'm not uncomfortable with the issue. It just has never affected me hardly at all. I've made less than or the same as every woman I've dated since my 20s. Almost AlWAYS less than. And I'm just some 5'7'' dude with kinda a big nose and an unimpressive physique.

Are women who buy into the patriarchy both offputting and numerous? Sure. Not nearly as offputting and/or numerous as men who do. But in the real, not-chronically-online world, this just isn't some crippling issue. It's justone of the less troubling parts of living in late-stage capitalism and patriarchy. If you hate that shit, it's really not hard to find nice women who also hate that shit.

badgersonice · 2026-06-12T11:08:16+00:00

I am a woman and have discussed hypergamy at length here on many occasions.

I am not blue pilled or woke, but I do not take the red pill beliefs about hypergamy seriously at all because, after having numerous discussions… I have seen repeatedly that it’s nothing but pseudoscientific claptrap.

The biggest failure of the hypergamy belief system is that there is literally no kind of proof that you would ever accept that could disprove your beliefs. No matter who any woman dates, you’ll always find some trait that proves in your head that he’s superior to her. It’s always circular reasoning: the very fact that she is attracted to the man is always proof that she’s dating up.

So yeah, red pill’s definition of hypergamy is genuinely not worth taking seriously. It is nothing more than team man ego-stroking, a way of telling men that any time he has sex with a woman it means he’s 100% superior to her and better than other men too.

prettywords_ · 2026-06-12T10:28:51+00:00

I can't take it seriously because every time I leave my apartment I see women with men who are less attractive than them. Often they're just 2 poor people too.

I don't think rating attractiveness means anything anyway. My friends and I can see the same couple and completely disagree on which one of them is hotter.

And at the end of the day if someone wants to date the vest person they can then they should do so.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2026-06-12T19:38:04+00:00

It's so fucking weird how obsessed the manosphere is with "hypergamy" even as age and wage gaps reach historic lows. It's like y'all are determined to keep living in the long ago past cause that's the only way the incoherent concepts you've based your entire worldview around make any sense.

Where women are politically, religiously, and economically liberated, everything related to hypergamy decreases.

Where women are oppressed, everything related to hypergamy increases. Because obviously if women can't have anything, a man having something is a bigger gap than both and man and woman having something.

There's zero evidence of this extreme looks discrepancy, I continue to be confused how you all can claim to see all these hot man/plain or ugly woman couples when even your own ideology says men can be attractive with a combination of looks/money/status but women only have looks and youth to offer. I don't understand how trophy wives can exist and men still pretend every "non-looksmatched" couple they see has an attractive man and unattractive woman. Biologically and socially it doesn't make sense, and it definitely doesn't match my experience. I think this is probably men refusing to acknowledge the impact of sexual dimorphism, and pretending like physicality is 1-to-1 across sexes. "She's chubby and he's thin - he looks better than her!" Well she has big boobs and a bouncy ass, and he is a schlubby NPC. So... not really

And for the umpteenth time, men being "bigger and stronger" is also sexual dimorphism, not hypergamy. So like I said, there's just willful ignorance on this point.

AmandaPea · 2026-06-14T19:31:10+00:00

I'm not sure you understand what hypergamy means. Can you define your terms?

AikenDrumstick · 2026-06-12T09:11:11+00:00

Your “observations” aren’t reality. The world is full of more successful women than ever before. Yes. But many of them will still date any man they click with. Regardless of wealth or status.

Disbelieve it if you want. But it’s the truth, I’ve dated many women who out-earned me. And I’m not beautiful. I’m married now, but the idea that “there isn’t any explanation other than the red pill one” is such amazingly obvious BS that I almost don’t know where to start.

BUT - if I were suddenly single - and I pray that never happens - I would do great out there. Without great looks, without vast wealth. Call me “woke” or “blue pilled” all you want, I don’t care. I’m likable, sensitive, funny, and I get along great with women, and your bitter RP ruminations only make me sad for you.

That’s the irony of the whole red pill thing. Its name is based on The Matrix, but it’s actually the wrong pill. The vast network of embittered dudes that prey on less-confident dudes is the problem.

The RP matrix has you. And it gives you nothing,

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2026-06-12T09:11:28+00:00

Not every woman is a prostitute. There are people who date for love, not for benefits. If you use strategies for transactional relationships you attract prostitutes. You cannot use money to attract women and then be surprised they only use you for money.

EvaGenaMeana · 2026-06-12T11:07:02+00:00

I just don’t have a problem with hypergamy 🤷🏽‍♀️

If women want to only date millionaires - IDC. If MEN only want to date millionaires - I equally don’t care. IMO, people should keep their standards as high or low as they want. It’ll never impact me at all.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2026-06-12T13:30:20+00:00

The fact that breadwinner women are increasing in number begs to differ

No-Parsley2889 · 2026-06-12T13:00:54+00:00

people want to keep the status quo

TransmissionSigned · 2026-06-13T09:24:26+00:00

My guy. If you could get the best, why would you settle for less? Same with women.

Hypergamy is just the new name given to people doing normal stuff.

cb8585b · 2026-06-12T09:35:15+00:00

Why exactly is this supposedly a serious topic?

BusinessZestyclose86 · 2026-06-12T09:12:10+00:00

I think it exists but at the same time I don’t care or think it’s serious. No one is owed a partner.

PuzzleheadedRow9896 · 2026-06-12T12:40:13+00:00

I'm so glad you're finally using the correct definition of hypergamy. With that said, I think as a woman who married down in social class, I may have some useful insight to offer. Note, my husband is distinctly from the lower class, while I'm distinctly from the upper middle class although, I admittedly grew up for the early years of my life lower middle class bordering on lower class. My mother was the one who got educated and pulled our family from that mess, so clearly, I have an image of the good a girl boss can do for her children and family.

And, without bragging, I am both brilliant, pretty, and affable. In college (my husband is not college educated), I had the opportunity to date and even likely marry men who came from wealthy upper class families and would go on to be quite wealthy themselves despite their shocking laziness. So why didn't I climb on these choo choo trains to an even higher social class? Why subject myself to the ill of the lower class (and there have been some ILLLS I've gotten the privilege to handle because of my husband)?

The answer is pretty simple and comes in two parts:

My husband was a diamond in the rough. He was extremely hard-working and taking care of basically his entire family since the age of 15 despite them being vampires who never say thank you and constantly shamed him as selfish or cold for not always enjoying bailing them out of their bullshit or for rarely buying something for himself. I saw that and was impressed and filled with admiration because:
I actually know what it is like. The middle class version of this isn't as financial, it's more emotional. I know what it is like to be the emotional wallet of my family, the diplomat, the peace keeper, the helpful one, the one everyone can talk to and everyone likes, etc. And again, without any of the thanks or recognition of this and often scorn as being a fence sitter or two-faced any time I've smoothed things over by telling two people what they needed to hear in order to be able to get up in the morning.

Now, our commonalities don't end there of course, I do genuinely believe we're meant to be together and our entire lives up to the point we met were bringing us together (yes, I'm a romantic). I love him and he loves me ugly haircut and all. But, the problem I see from let's say this lower class of men is:

They are not hard-working as a character trait nor is any of their hard work in service to anyone else. It's all for them and because of a sort of malaise that this is what it is to be a man quasi? They aren't diamonds in the rough. And I know they think that if they had a woman or a family, they'd provide, but where are the signs? Where is the evidence they want to care for others? My husband and I had started at very young ages and were hitting our prime of family care and community care by our teenage years.

They are putting the cart before the horse. The think that you find a woman and a family and then you care for them because they merit this investment. Which I get, there is something sensible to that of course. But this ties your commitment to merit in a frightening way...you only want to provide when it serves you. Again, very sensible. But that's not how life or family works. Family is all about being committed and loyal even on the days, years, and months it ain't going so well. And that takes practice. That's not easy. And you haven't been practicing that at all. And that's at least half of the diamond quality required.

And to be clear, I'm not saying by all women. Obviously, date lower class women you're good to go. But if you want someone of higher privilege and social class to notice you, there has to be something to notice that really sparkles. And just being a dude who works kind of hard at a job to take care of himself....what sparkles about that. Genuinely, what is interesting about that? Nothing. That's not unusual at all.

But a man who has been taking care of his ungrateful fucking family of one retarded decision after another since he was 15 at clear and present cost to himself...that's someone who needs boundaries for sure, but that's something that sparkles. Most people don't have that in them.

They have fewer grounds with which to connect to other people. They're emotionally blank in a certain sense. I really recommend the "About a Boy" movie to understand this concept deeper. But you're an island when you don't have love in your life for other people. Even when it's difficult and messy. Avoiding mess is sensible, it also avoids future connections. And you know who is rarely avoiding messy people situations: women. It's less in our nature. So by being so avoidant (and for probably sensible reasons), you're accidentally shooting yourself in the foot because when you sit down to that date with a girl, you're blank, you don't have these meaningful life problems, people, and connections to share. You like your hobbies, and movies, and so forth which is fantastic, but it's not magnetic things that usually cause people to really notice each other.

LillthOfBabylon · 2026-06-12T10:40:51+00:00

It’s more that no one really cares to hear this buzz word, especially since it’s said by guys who don’t actually want to admit when guys do something just as stupid or shallow.

When we look into what the red pill claim they’re chasing, it’s clearly a Stacy with a low personality standard. Yeah, a woman like that is in very high demand.

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corey_trevorson · 2026-06-12T14:22:29+00:00

And one of them is that the man she's with has to be better than her. Bigger, stronger, richer.

This is the way nature intended women to be. This is not "patriarchal," it is essential for human survival

EugeneCezanne · 2026-06-12T15:09:19+00:00

There's some ambiguity about what hypergamy is or isn't. Taking the simplest definition, wanting someone "better" than yourself in some way, I don't really disagree. Everyone, men and women, want to end up with someone who makes their lives better. We don't want dating to be lateral or regressive. That's natural and not actually a problem. However, I think in practice this whole things ends up being so complicated by nuance and individual variance that the concept isn't really worth talking about.

Underexperienced men (including those struggling, or even desperate) can easily imagine simply not being lonely or sexually frustrated as a better life. To wit, almost any woman who clears a low threshold of attraction will suffice. At least in theory—in practice, people who get experience usually learn that personality ends up mattering and there are worse situations than being alone. They still most desire a woman who's better, but they're more eager to settle, or at least fixate on whoever happens to give them a shot.

But the thing really missing from the hypergamy debate is feeling. Feelings are pre-intellectual, meaning they aren't beholden to rationality.

A lot of women turn oddly "trad" when you ask them who should court who, who should plan dates, pay for vacation, pay for the lion share of family expenses, and so on. For the life of me I don't understand the logic behind this

It's not logic, it's feeling. Any attempt at logic comes after the spontaneous, negative feeling as a post hoc rationalization. A lot of that feeling comes down to socialization and "culture lag." While progressive ideas originating in feminism have changed much of women's cultural experience over the decades, it hasn't changed everything at the exact same rate. This aspect of dating etiquette and ritual has moved slower than others. Though, it has steadily moved: in 2026, it has never been easier to find women who date proactively and pay their share of the bill.

There isn't an explanation for this other than a "redpill" one. It seems a man's life in some way has less value than a woman's which is why he has to make up for it in other ways.

I have a different explanation. The first part of it is that dating is mainly about attraction and vibes. The problem is that most men aren't very attractive, when it comes to handsomeness, style or charisma. That's why they have to do more. (And yes, this does imply that women are more attractive than men, to which every study ever shows both men and women actually agree). It's also why less common men can get away with being broke and unintentional, so long as they're pretty to look upon and fun to be around.

Men's standards for attractiveness in women are just so low that it distorts their perception of what should be, or is, "normal." Rather than looking at themselves, they assume there must be something weird going on with The Other.

calmly86 · 2026-06-12T17:34:39+00:00

Sofía Vergara has an estimated net worth of $180 million. She refuses to date men who earn less than her. The notion of women being free to choose men based on men’s character versus his ability to provide her with a lifestyle now that women “make their own money” is often a lie. There are outliers like that wealthy heiress who has her own money and she chose convicted criminal and married man Jeremy Meeks.

Just_Fisherman4910 · 2026-06-16T13:17:39+00:00

Here is your actual explanation for why women "prefer" to date up (money/status). It makes the man feel good to have more money and status than her! If on the other hand she earns more money or has a higher status than him he becomes more insecure and he has less sexual desire for her.

JollyBowler2510 · 2026-06-25T00:09:37+00:00

Hypergamy exists in both genders. Women have dated better looking men, men have dated better looking women. My question is, when it’s their choice, why it bothers you so much? Do the same, or find someone you feel is equal to you that also likes you back. People like who they like, sometimes it doesn’t make sense except to those in the relationship.

TermAggravating8043 · 2026-06-12T09:13:19+00:00

Hypergamy has been irrelevant since Victorian times.

When you go outside and see people, there are mixed groups of couples n family’s everywhere. This redpill “idea” is clearly from sub men off the internet that want to raise hatred against women by pretending “hypergamy” is actually happening, poor men etc

Puzzleheaded_Award88 · 2026-06-12T09:11:47+00:00

In my opinion, as we see in current events that women are dominating college and in the workforce. As men fall back a bit, the chances of hypergamy will reduce for women.

Alone_Ambition_3729 · 2026-06-12T10:14:55+00:00

You're not wrong, but what even *is* "up" as in dating up? Dating is a market; when a commodity trades well in the market it isn't doing Monetary Hypergamy, its value is just whatever the market says it is, and that's what it trades for. Who cares? Accept the market for what it is and try to add/increase value to what you have, or complain about it and never make any trades.

And yes in some ways a man's life has less value than a woman's. He must chase and compete. This is fundamentally why complex living organisms have a male and a female sex; its so reproduction can be competitive and selective. The animal kingdom layers complex social dynamics on top of this, and human culture layers yet more, but the fundamental roles of male and female are still intact.

A lot of people seem to have a mindset, and I guess it's the blackpill infecting everything, where they want to be aware of hard truths, but then they just want to complain about them instead of accepting them. Lots of things about being a man suck, but also lot's of other things are great. Go have fun. You might have to date a "mid" girl, who pays less than 50% of dates/expenses, but guess what she might be really cool and fun, or she might have qualities that would make her a good mother, or she might be really fun to have sex with, or all of the above. I just can't stress this enough; you're never going to complain your way into having a higher sexual/dating market value.

TaxJunior8217 · 2026-06-12T09:04:34+00:00

Not a controversial topic but something that is not accepted by anybody

A 5opic that is taboo only becuase it is common and hurts the ego of majority of man and women

For me only the most positive sex positive women have been good to me and accepted hypergamy while also being interested in younger males but never poorer

This distinction is clear, age might not matter , to some extent looks can be mid ( although i am better than average ), but financially the person must be better

That is topmost priority , henceforth developing countries see extreme results in dating market as more women enter workplace... Women never or rarely marry someone of less, ver few cases where they marry someone who make somewhere in same wage range

Hypergamy is serious topic that woke and bluepilled people uncomfortable and they are unwilling to take seriously, analyze, and discuss the issue.

Comments

the original point to be proved is this is discussed more than in just "social media".

the original point to be proved is this is discussed more than in just "social media".

Title	Hypergamy is serious topic that woke and bluepilled people uncomfortable and they are unwilling to take seriously, analyze, and discuss the issue.
Author	Open-Quail-2573
Upvotes	37
Comments	195
Date	June 12, 2026 8:52 AM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1u3ptxa/hypergamy_is_serious_topic_that_woke_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/hypergamy-is-serious-topic-that-woke-and.1582627 https://theredarchive.com/post/1582627