Positive Masculinity

CreepyVictorianDolls · 2025-02-16T15:38:16+00:00

Both men and women should just focus on being "good people" i.e. androgynous beings. Good luck be attracted to men devoid of masculine traits!

It's so odd to me that you find it so difficult to imagine a masculine man being described as a "good person".

And that's considering modern folklore has countless examples of those.

Superman. Captain America. Aragorn. John Wick. They're gigachads, but lock a woman in a room with them and she will feel safe.

Boniface222 · 2025-02-16T15:29:25+00:00

I think people generally need to learn to live without submitting themselves to an ideology. You shouldn't need people telling you what to do, what to feel, and what to believe at every moment in your life.

If the ideology you believe in has a gap (like feminism not giving an alternative masculinity) it should be fine because you should be able to think independently. And hell, at that point, if you can think on your own why have the ideology in the first place?

Ultimately, I think people get a kick out of thinking they can explain everything. People enjoy feeling like they have all the answers. So they will put their brain on sleep mode and take up an ideology.

If animals can thrive without ideology I don't see why we need it.

Gravel_Roads · 2025-02-16T14:54:18+00:00

Many people, including women, have no problem listing traits they like about men.

I think the issue a lot of people have is when those traits become ONLY about one gender.

Ie, I think “efficiency” would be a positive masculine trait, in that it’s a trait that is found attractive in men.

But efficiency isn’t something ONLY men have, nor even that they have more of.

Women are just as capable of being efficient.

Associating traits to a single gender is always going to cause problems because human traits are present in all humans.

Fun_Push7168 · 2025-02-17T19:38:25+00:00

It's a scenario that happens a lot. What they're doing is simply ignoring commonality.

Eg. Is nurturing feminine? Yes. Does that mean men aren't nurturing? No. Is it a quality more common to women ? Yes. Do men and women both place more importance on it as a quality in a woman? Yes.

My SO, self proclaimed feminist that she is , had a little bit of a realization over the weekend;

She was moving. It was just her and I. Of course I moved all the furniture myself. She packed boxes, organized all the detailed small items etc. Then we got to the new place. I set up the washer and dryer and changed the dryer cord, put the furniture together, there was no hot water so I went to the attic and fired up the pilot and got it turned on, installed some locks on her bedroom door , changed some switch and light fixture wiring etc etc. skipping all the details.

As were driving back after dropping the uhaul she says " This worked really well, I'm so glad you were here. I couldn't have done all of that. Some of it I wouldn't even know what to do or how to begin."

Light bulb moment.....

" It's like, my weak points are your strong points and vice versa"

I said no kidding, that's why men and women are different.

She backpedals a bit and says " well, any competent adult would have been a big help and a woman could have done all that"

I said " yes, A woman could have done any one of the things I did. Do you know any that could have or would have done them all?"

Which resulted in a list of 4 women spread across the country that she knows who would have competently completed the tasks. None prepared for all of them.

Almost every single man I personally know would have been prepared to do everything I did.

Basic stuff, anyone could do any and all of it, maybe barring some strength related tasks but the likelyhood is a person of one sex is probably already prepared.

Commonality and emphasis on certain traits determines whether something is masculine or feminine. Not whether there are exceptions or whether those things can or do occur in both sexes.

If it's bad it's masculine, if it's good it's human is just disingenuous BS.

Desperate_Coat_5244 · 2025-02-16T16:45:49+00:00

Idk, feminism hasn’t made me weak, it has never attacked my masculinity and it certainly hasn’t defined all masculinity as toxic nor aims to destroy the gender binary. Your post is utterly and completely clueless but suits PPD well in that regard.

Toxic masculinity refers to the aspects that are socially destructive, such as misogyny, homophobia, and violent domination. These traits are considered “toxic” due in part to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence.

Hope this helps.

ArtifactFan65 · 2025-02-17T16:45:19+00:00

I will say it again most men throughout history have been betas. You are living in an imaginary past where every guy was the leader of his country instead of just another follower who does what he's told.

marchingrunjump · 2025-02-20T00:34:40+00:00

It always rubs me the wrong way when masculinity is attributed with being a leader.

Masculinity is the just as much the ability to take charge when necessary and fall in line when necessary. And furthermore having integrity enough to know when tondo what.

No leaders without followers. No followers without leaders. Masculinity is about de-centering and purpose.

Leadership for its own purpose is not leadership. He who seeks power for the sake of power is no leader.

Opie67 · 2025-03-11T00:26:47+00:00

Boys are no longer raised to embody these traits they are merely told to be good people and be themselves.

Yep that's all I got growing up. I was even told that my shyness was part of who I was and not something that needed to be worked on. I honestly didn't even understand that confidence was sexually attractive until my late 20's.

Boys are being set up for failure with constant feminine messaging, and we wonder why they are losing interest in the real world. They don't know how to navigate it or get the most out of it.

attendquoi · 2025-02-16T14:55:21+00:00

I find some masculine traits repulsive, so yay!

Disastrous-Chart-928 · 2025-02-16T17:12:17+00:00

Masculinity in general is positive, it's the engine of the human species that drove us forward.

Women want masculine men, just some of them don't admit it because they've been socially engineered into doing so.

cutegolpnik · 2025-02-16T15:10:54+00:00

Feminism hasn’t “defined masculinity as toxic”

You heard the phrase “toxic masculinity” and made an assumption that the definition is “all masculinity is toxic”

That would be like hearing the phrase “poisonous food” and thinking the person was criticizing food in general.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-02-16T15:03:32+00:00

because it has defined masculinity as toxic

This is a lie.

without giving men any alternative masculine image

Are you saying you want to see more women producing media? Because it seems like a lot of red pill throws a shit fit whenever that happens.

And there are plenty of positive male images. Hell, the Barbie movie quite prominently features men shedding toxic masculine traits and finding healthier behavior and outlook on life. You saw how men reacted to that.

I don't think the problem is the lack of positive masculine role models, I think it's that many men are not ready to accept them as masculine role models.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-02-16T15:14:57+00:00

A post doesn’t define a movement

Logos1789 · 2025-02-16T14:52:39+00:00

I remember seeing this called “Swiss cheese” masculinity. It’s similar to how feminists see rights and responsibilities…like yeah, I’ll take the reaching for things on shelves and lifting heavy objects, but cut out the wants sex more than me thing. I’ll take the freedom to live on my own, but not the defending our country in a time of war to enable that freedom.

alwaysright0 · 2025-02-16T15:46:35+00:00

How to you define positive masculinity?

What traits do you think are unique to men?

wtknight · 2025-02-16T16:08:22+00:00

I think that most feminists believe that men should ideally still be protecting women from external threats (like other men, for instance), as they recognize the strength and aggression difference that men have over women.

Feminists still want men to be good providers, even if women also want the freedom to earn their own money to spend on themselves and their families.

I think that they also think that a good man is emotionally strong, yet also in touch with his emotions, and that he has the ability to emotionally empathize.

Overall, I think that most women still want men to be masculine, but to also have a feminine side. I don't think that they want gender differences to completely disappear, but they want to feel safe with the men whom are in their life.

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_H_a_c_k_e_r_ · 2025-02-16T18:35:05+00:00

Men need to be toxic to balace againt hypersensitive positivity. All fragile movements are the result of men taking a backseat. We talk about things that make us feel good but never solve the problem. Because solving proplems will hurt.

procrast1natrix · 2025-02-18T04:02:05+00:00

My teen son is growing into an early adorable masculine guy. He's still got narrow shoulders and the sweet high voice of a boy, but he's starting to eat everything in sight and grow rapidly.

He's very dear in enjoying the tussle and camaraderie of his intense soccer club, including complaining about the fouls and the blind ref.

He's fantastic about helping to carry heavy stuff, groceries, wood for the fire, food for the chickens.

I guess I see him as very (early) masculine but I'm not really sure which any of those most admirable traits are reserved for men. His older sister is at this point still taller and stronger and pulls her weight. They are both protective of the smaller younger people. My kids are both incredibly cis/het gendernormative despite being raised in an exceedingly all are loved, free for all culture.

I think his positive masculinity mostly has to do with styling really. As in they are both incredibly positive humans, and my son styles himself masculinely, and it's positive (gets compliments), and my daughter femininely (gets compliments), and that's positive too. But I expect both of them to exhibit strength, reliability, honesty, protectiveness towards the weak.

I guess I just remain lost about the idea that a good quality must be unique to a man in order to be positive masculinity.

Big-Wasabi-8477 · 2025-02-23T09:55:09+00:00

Possitive masculinity could be just being kind, honest, respectful, but also confident, strong and having a big cock

James_M_Croft · 2025-02-16T15:16:11+00:00

Feminism actively hates men in general. So they hate anything related to them. it includes everything relating to positive masculinity including hard work, lustas a source of love, rewarding merit, competition, freedom, speaking the truth, family orientation, non conformism, and solving issues. no wonder verything feels like a death by a thousand cuts since the 70s.

Fancy-Statistician82 · 2025-02-16T15:51:05+00:00

Good grief that comment is goofy. The very top post in that thread is very positive about masculinity, I'll quote it.

Positive masculinity is any man doing generally positive things, and they look very different depending on the man. It could be humor, empathy, generosity, kindheartedness, love of nature, love of animals, care for their community, healthy relationship with their spouse, support for friends, artistry, mastery of a craft, dependability, self-expression, cooking, cleanliness, fashion, bravery, etc. etc. etc. I don't think any of that is male specific, but men are masculine by definition, so anytime they are doing some or any of those behaviors, they are showing positive masculinity. Just as a woman showing them would show positive femininity.

Let's be clear. I like men. I like them in general, I like living and working with them. I'm also sexually attracted to them, I like looking at them and being touched by mine. I'm also a huge fan of raising men, including my son and encouraging through mentorship young men I work with.

Antithetical to feminism ... Top post on the feminist sub. Ignore a little harder.

AssPlay69420 · 2025-02-16T16:15:46+00:00

Counterpoint - why are we expecting feminism to even give a definition of positive masculinity in the first place?

Feminism, as a philosophy, is essentially just “please don’t harm me”, by and for women.

Why should anyone expect to find the ultimate truth of masculinity over there?

Masculinity is something that men are responsible for defining for ourselves.

The fact that the so-called “manly men” are so preoccupied with how feminism feels about them in the first place indicates to me that they aren’t who they sell themselves to be.

Oversensitive much?

Mouslimanoktonos · 2025-02-16T16:30:13+00:00

They are kinda-sorta right, but didn't articulate it very well. In patriarchal societies, masculinity is defined in terms of domination, while femininity is defined in terms of submission. Gender isn't an equal binary, but an oppressive hierarchy where masculinity is lionised, while femininity scorned. There is a reason why being compared to a woman is the worst insult one can direct to a man; at some level, they are all aware that being a woman is an inferior and unenviable position to being a man. As such, if being a man is defined as being oppressive towards those who fall short of the masculine ideal, then such masculinity is inherently and fundamentally toxic.

So what's the alternative? The alternative would be to revaluate masculine traits separate from hierarchical domination. I personally believe that the best example of that would be Kratos from God of War: Ragnarok. Physically speaking, Kratos is as manly as it gets; towering, muscular, bald, bearded, deep-voiced, stoic, unsurpassable warrior dishing out overwhelming violence. However, emotionally speaking, Kratos overflows with positive masculinity; he is very patient, understanding and forgiving, averse to senseless violence and only using it to defend himself and his loved ones. He has never hit Atreus, called him names, or traumatised him by screaming at him. When he did chastise him, it was in a very controlled and concise manner, where he explained exactly what he disliked about him without any undue aggression. He never coddled Atreus, but he wasn't unnecessarily rough with him either. He isn't a misogynist and values women in his life as close friends whose skill and helping hand he very much appreciates. He has shown himself to be a good friend to people whom he cherishes. He has apologised and displayed regret at his wrongdoings multiple times. He displayed open love and pride of Atreus at the end of the game.

People like to use Aragorn as an example of positive masculinity and while that is indeed true, Aragorn is an example of a refined and sensitive aristocratic masculinity most men wouldn't be able to relate to right away. Kratos, on the other hand, is an excellent example that you can be overflowing with traditional "stoic warrior" manliness, while still being a kind, caring, peaceful, emotional and nurturing person, instead of an alphabro obssessed with his masculine status and oppression of the people who fall short of it. Kratos is a manly man whose masculinity is defined by cooperation, not domination, and that's what us men should strive to emulate.

MyLastBestChance · 2025-02-16T17:28:24+00:00

The problem with this argument is that it ignores the fact that “masculinity” in this context has co-opted all kinds of positive traits and behaviors and claimed them as being “masculinity”.

Being emotionally strong and stable?

Providing for your family?

Protecting those weaker than yourself?

Working hard?

Being ambitious?

Being true to your word?

All of those are positive gender neutral characteristics, none of which require a Y chromosome.

And yes, women typically want their partners to have those characteristics, just as they have them themselves.

The difference is that the positive characteristics that men ascribe to the “feminine” are also valuable characteristics regardless of gender and are not prevented by a Y chromosome.

Nurturing?

Sensitivity?

Social Skills?

Cooperation?

Basic household tasks (aka adulting)?

And yes, women typically want their partners to have these characteristics just as they themselves do.

Toxic traits are toxic regardless of gender and positive traits are positive regardless of gender. Not sure why that’s such a threat to some people 🤷‍♀️.

Goyeyo565 · 2025-02-16T17:49:15+00:00

Idk chief everytime there's a terrorist attack or an accident somewhere in the world we see MEN jumping straight in to help those in need. It's so incredibly rare to see women be the ones leading the charge.

Right now there's a whole land war in Europe and every single frontline vid that's been posted has had MEN doing all the killing and dying. I have yet to see a woman fighting in a trench or even pointing a gun at a Russian, the only ones that come close was a medic that got caught under artillery fire and the woman who took down a helo with a manpad from the safety of the backline.

Men's ability to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of others seems to be pretty darn unique considering what little video evidence we have of women doing the same.

Ego73 · 2025-02-16T14:56:47+00:00

Feminism isn't about destroying the gender binary; it's about destroying masculinity. Just look at how radical feminists reacted to Imane Khelif if you think they want women to be masculine.

Title	Positive Masculinity
Author	OrganicAd5450
Upvotes	24
Comments	217
Date	February 16, 2025 2:48 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1iqtqfu/positive_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/positive-masculinity.1544044 https://theredarchive.com/post/1544044

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