Q4M: Who here identifies with this practical line of thinking?

Moolg86 · 2019-02-13T02:04:27+00:00

Semi decent example of men dating down, this is a lot more common than you’d like to admit

CamoWoobie10 · 2019-02-13T03:23:44+00:00

I would rather LTR the 5 tbh, I prefer the power dynamic to be skewed in my favor

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2019-02-13T09:36:34+00:00

I've echoed this same sentiment many times and I'll do it again right now. That's absolutely how I go about things. If I am looking for a relationship looks are still important, she can't be ugly, but other factors become more important for long-term compatibility, so I'll take a 5/10 I'm compatible with over a 9/10 I'm not.

It's only ONS that's purely about looks. Even FWB is about more. LTRs even more so.

I don't think this is even being a unicorn, I think most men think this way about LTRs. You just don't see that on PPD because most men here are thirsty and only care about causal sex.

DragoonXFury · 2019-02-13T08:16:47+00:00

I actually don't care to be honest it doesn't bother me. From what I have seen from that Red Pill HB rating scale, I like 5/10 girls, plenty of "5s" are sexually attractive to me so why would I complain she's a 5? I don't care if a women has a promiscuous past. Don't care if the men she banged are "hotter" than me. I honestly couldn't care less.

despisedlove2 · 2019-02-13T03:48:40+00:00

I have always been a sucker for smarts.

Sir_Koopaman · 2019-02-13T04:23:01+00:00

Even though truthfully I trust just about no woman to not backstab me in the future if I were to get into a LTR, if Uncle Sam decided to point a gun at me and told me to marry one of these women, I'd choose the 5/10 in a heartbeat. That 9/10 is going to cheat much, much sooner than the 5/10 and almost certainly has her own slew of issues.

bonslytoss · 2019-02-13T06:11:18+00:00

Are we rating the 5/10 and 9/10 purely on physical looks? Are we counting SMV? RMV? I heavily object to defining a person so narrowly as a number on a scale. People are too complex to reduce to numbers unless you are defining them within the confines of a hypothetical.

Since this is a hypothetical, I will still tender my opinion. I don't think I could stay attracted to a 9/10 spitfire for long. If I imagine a 9/10 who is the opposite of the positive traits listed for the 5/10 (unemployed, dumb, boring, noncommunicative, not attracted to me), I can't see a reason why I would want to spend any more time around her than I absolutely have to. I would rather be with nobody at all than a person like this.

After a few months it's gonna be a matter of physical attraction being moderated by communication skills and how well you actually get on as people, too.

Let's imagine your first impression of someone is a 5/10, average looks, average income, average intelligence, everything average. If you spend a few months in a relationship with them, and the two of you pair bond, and you come to believe they are interesting, expressive, and have a libido matching yours, would you really think they were average? In your mind, you would probably give them at least an additional 2 points. In my worldview, the ultimate goal is a strong pair bond. Don't go chasing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and lakes that you're used to.

BirdManBrrrr · 2019-02-13T14:57:24+00:00

Me IRL.

If--IF--a guy wants an LTR and especially a family it's much better to optimize on values, character, desire for motherhood, lack of psychological issues, etc than to find a hottie that is lesser on all of the above. Essentially, find the best looking girl you can who embodies all of the positive character traits that make her a decent human being and potential mother.

Sexually, the biggest freaks I've ever known were not the hot ones, and there is a huge difference between a freak and a slut. Your lesser-but-still-pretty girl who has great character traits AND is a freak is a bit of a unicorn on the basis of all the traits aligning, but she is still a woman.

Edit: The maxim "No matter how hot she is, some guy somewhere is sick of her shit" is gospel. A pretty face only goes so far.

hustlemuscleracing · 2019-02-13T05:10:52+00:00

I think the same way actually.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-02-13T01:59:18+00:00

How do you think this is a unicorn? This is extremely common

DREADC0RSAIR · 2019-02-13T04:10:08+00:00

rosacanina_ · 2019-02-13T07:47:59+00:00

how many men here value character and compatibility over looks?

Here? No clue. In the real world: most.

-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-02-13T10:24:26+00:00

I don’t think he’s enlightened as he thinks he is.

I think that he’s identified that he can’t get 9/10s.... so is justifying to himself his decision to pick a 5/10.

A decision his conscious brain didn’t make... a decision his attraction instincts made, and then his “rational brain” confabulated a reasonable explanation for.

He’s “making up” conscious rationales for decisions his instincts made, possibly for the reasons his conscious brain hit on, but much more probably for other reasons his conscious brain are entirely unaware of.

gunbusterxl · 2019-02-13T12:11:31+00:00

If I don't cringe at the thought of kissing her, then she looks good enough. That's when everything else comes into play. Most guys aren't going to date a woman who has a pretty face and nothing else, unless he's just that damn desperate. The most good looking women that I personally know can't keep a boyfriend to save their lives, and I kinda feel bad for them.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2019-02-13T14:46:31+00:00

In reality, virtually every study has shown that 9/10 very attractive women are less likely to have very high n-counts than the 5/10.....it is, I think, thought that the attractive women don't feel the need to validate their worth or 'attractiveness' by getting a constant stream of dudes to fuck them plus likely along with figuring out pretty quickly in life that much of the attention they get from men is just about their looks so they are don't value the extra attention as much as the only occasionally attention getting 5/10.

The biggest issue for most guys is the insecurity that comes with dating a very attractive woman is knowing that she is going to get constant attention and that she can easy replace you if she feels the urge. But the truth is that the attractive woman isn't nearly as "impressed" with the constant attention as the guy thinks so she is less likely to than the 5/10 to just go wandering because some dude shows her attention.

The number of 9/10 women who are raging sluts jumping from dick to dick is dynamically less than the 5/10 women....this is another example of transposing what 5/10 males dream that they could do if they were 9/10 males which isn't the way that actual 9/10 women think.

cherryapp · 2019-02-13T02:16:00+00:00

Give me the 9/10. I'd rather stay single than be with a 5.

throwawayhouseissue1 · 2019-02-13T03:25:05+00:00

This is the strat I am using. Read my post history.

EDIT:

Although, to me, an average Asian girl is more pretty than an average white girl. CMV

anal_coke · 2019-02-13T01:50:33+00:00

Well, between only those two extreme options, I'd go with the first.

CainPrice · 2019-02-13T11:49:01+00:00

I wouldn't say that most men prioritize character over looks. It's more that most men find the majority of women attractive enough to be fuckable. So if two women pass the boner test, the one who isn't a bitch to you makes a better girlfriend.

It's women who prioritize looks over character. Women aren't physically aroused by most men. So when looking at two guys, if only one of them passes the lady boner test, he's the one she's going home with, no matter how great the other one's character is.

double_red · 2019-02-13T10:35:59+00:00

I do. I'm probably a sapiosexual as I've turned down several women who were good-looking but were stupid or functionally illiterate and at the same time I've fallen in love with women who weren't great in looks but had high IQ and an interesting personality. And the older I get, the more I think like that.

But I also admit that there's a looks threshold under which I won't bother looking. There has to be some minimal sexual attraction, otherwise it's a brother-sister relationship, at least on my behalf.

LeJacquelope · 2019-02-13T15:15:53+00:00

This line of thinking is fallacious. There's almost no correlation between attractiveness and personality from what i've seen (there are bitches in every demographic).

Trying to "date down" in terms of looks is a formula for misery when you belatedly discover that the hampig uggo you're dating also has a shit personality.

Life is not an RPG game where everyone's stats average out to 5 in every category. Some women are beautiful and have great personalities, some are ugly and have horrible, ugly personalities too. Dating a 5 will not insulate your relationship from the deleterious influence of the cock carousel - if a woman has any interest to get on strange dick and strange validation, she can. Even a 1 can hop on these days, if she has the will.

badtooth85 · 2019-02-14T03:19:30+00:00

Character over looks. I would be about a 5/10 man. I've never had sex with someone most people would consider attractive because they were overweight. I'm okay with that. The idea of having sex with someone that's a 10/10 sounds thrilling, but it's not something I value at all. And I wouldn't say my ex was unattractive. She was beautiful to me.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2019-02-13T05:11:10+00:00

Basically, how many men here value character and compatibility over looks?

I do, but I'm an extreme outlier being both bisexual and not highly controlled by sexual urges, with an extremely cerebral mindset and a massive case of Asperger's Syndrome that makes me rather antisocial when I'm not incompetently social (by the 'conventional persons' definition).

So anyone whom is compatible with me, on any level, has to be rather freakish. And frankly I'd rather masturbate than fuck someone who I didn't hold in at least moderate positive regard.

MGTOWtoday · 2019-02-13T06:45:42+00:00

The better question to raise here is why are all the hotties insufferable psychopaths.

blackedoutfast · 2019-02-13T02:34:55+00:00

ewwww 5/10 is like almost unfuckable, and would probably be embarrassing to even be seen with. other people are going to assume you must be really desperate or have some serious flaw if you're willing to LTR/marry a chick that's that ugly. your social status will take a big ding from it.

also "career/brain/interests" is seriously overrated. most of the dudes who think they want an "intelligent" girl are low SMV nerds who don't have a lot of experience with women. they want a girl who is like their male gaming buddies but with tits and a pussy. they're confusing typical male nerd semi-autism with intelligence. intelligent women aren't going to want to sperg out over nerd shit with them.

and don't just assume that a 5/10 is guaranteed to be loyal and never cheat on you, even 5s have an abundance of options and AWALT still applies.

you don't prevent chicks from dumping you or cucking you or cheating on you by finding a girl who would never do those things. you're just chasing unicorns that don't exist. all you can do is be the best man you can be, make sure that she believes that cheating on you or leaving you will hurt her a lot more than it hurts you, have solid boundaries that you stick to, and try to do what you can so to minimize the consequences if she does fuck you over.

thy_shall_win · 2019-02-13T04:28:27+00:00

Looks>Personality.

Reasons:

1) Got to be sexually attractived to them. Sex is arguably the most important thing in a relationship for both genders - Although this isn't the case for everyone.

2) I like looking at nice things.

3) I would say the longer you are with someone the more your personalities become similar anyway.

4) I like challenges, new shit can be good.

5) I like crazy, makes life more entertaining apart from suicidal shit or anything similar, fuck that.

6) You mention her looks will fade. Yours will too which means your SMV will naturally go down once you are a certain age. Also a 9 unless she has bad genetics and an unhealthy lifestyle will hold her value well to a degree.

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equanimous_samsara · 2019-02-13T07:37:04+00:00

Looks is a threshold. If they don't meet the looks threshold, then value and character don't come into it.

Blabberm0uth · 2019-02-13T08:14:21+00:00

Of course. It's shortsighted fucking retards that only go for dull attractive women.

But if I'm given the choice to be with someone whose company I enjoy, whose jokes I appreciate, and who makes me think; then yeah that is absolutely hands down way way better than hanging out with someone who is vapid and hot. I mean its worth noting that some "9's and 10's" are interesting, challenging, funny and excellent communicators, the correlation between looks and being fun to hang out with is shaky; far shakier than the Red Pill likes to think (mostly owing to their busted world-view making it hard for them to get to know and communicate effectively with real humans). But as the question implied that a 5/10 has these things and I'm comparing it to a 9/10 who doesn't, then yeah that's an easy choice.

I've been out with women that make other men gape and paw and become blithering idiots around, and yeah, that has a kind of cachet that is fun. Plus it's great to find someone ridiculously attractive, and no, I wasn't really hugely concerned that other men fancied them. I liked it. Was I worried that they'd leave me? Yeah, maybe slightly jealous.

But what the comment is suggesting is the choice is between being insecure about how pretty your girlfriend is and how because of that she is boring **and** she might leave you; and someone you're attracted to who's impressive and fun to be with and otherwise fantastic in all other respects. Yeah, easily the second.

Even better once you realise that the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. That being paranoid your girl might leave you for someone 'better' is what opens her eyes to your inadequacies, that had you just been chill about, she wouldn't have even looked for.

passepar2t · 2019-02-13T09:14:20+00:00

I think that the 5 is as AWALT as the 9, behaviorally.

rathyAro · 2019-02-13T10:05:18+00:00

It's very hard for a women to be 5/10 without being fat and/or just not taking care of her appearance. It's hard to imagine this girl who is amazing in every other way somehow can't manage to be presentable or stick to a diet. 7/10 is much more realistic for this example and obviously most guys looking for a LTR would take that deal.

EminemLovesGrapes · 2019-02-13T10:12:49+00:00

There's quite a lot of things I find more appealing than the average person. In the same vain, my taste doesn't correlate with everyone else's.

Another man's 5 is another man's 6 or 7.

Although it could ve argued there are some things you can't get away from within your demographic without going too far up the rating. (Over)weight being a good example. Or height for men.

Truedemocracy4 · 2019-02-13T11:25:42+00:00

“Enlightened” lol

More like “I’m a man who isn’t high enough value to lock down better. So I’m going to convince myself I don’t want better”

sadomasochrist · 2019-02-13T12:06:04+00:00

Implying a 5 isn't swamped with attention if wanted.

MCAsomm · 2019-02-13T12:51:33+00:00

I'd rather date a 9/10 with brains and her own career and who has a healthy sex drive

EmpoweredGirl · 2019-02-13T13:23:34+00:00

Dude I'm greedy, I'm gonna get both. Someone with a character if gold that is at least an 8/10, moniez powerz!

fuckdr11 · 2019-02-13T13:26:50+00:00

Nope, 5 is too much of a compromise. If you replace the 5 by a 7 though, I'd agree.

guy_24601 · 2019-02-13T14:28:11+00:00

Tricky question to answer. Its difficult to say how much the answer is influenced by a persons perception of their own "rating"

How much is this influenced by insecurity.

I'd rather a high compatibility 5 over a no compatibility 9, no doubt.

does this mean I'm not shallow or that I'm a unicorn.

Nope it just means that diminishing returns kick in fairly quickly with attractiveness imo.

I can only get so erect.

"dating" complicates the question considerably because it means too many different things.

For sake of argument I'm going to use the context as cohabitation/ LTR

The smaller the time scale the less compatibility/personality matters.

Ordinate1 · 2019-02-13T15:05:46+00:00

I used to, but it doesn't work that way; even the 5s want to be treated like 10s.

muddynips · 2019-02-13T16:04:14+00:00

This sounds like sexual negotiation. I'm not ruling out the possibility of being legitimately attracted to a 5/10, but if I'm not attracted to her we've reclassified the nature of the relationship from dating to prostitute roommate. Some men are comfortable with sexual negotiation; though I don't think RP men should be (unless you are literally dealing with prostitutes).

This is also a kind of pernicious rationalization. You're applying these extra metrics to a 5/10 as if they don't apply to 10/10s and every rank below. Every woman above a 2 has infinite access to dick, and no self-respecting man will feel better about their girl not cheating because "just nothing was available". What the hypothetical 5/10 really wants in this situation is to date above her station with confidence. To rationalize dating an 8/10 because she's a unique flower that communicates and bakes well and just couldn't possibly be tempted by another dick. In my experience the 8s do the intangibles just as well as the 5s, if not better. My experience is that once you cut out the hot dregs (crazies, instawhores, etc...), there is a positive feedback loop that improves women the higher you get.

Also, communication is for relationship logistics, not sexual dynamics. Communication doesn't move the needle of the SMV scale as much as people assume it does. As in it's safe to assume it does nothing at all.

[deleted] · 2019-02-13T16:13:11+00:00

I like femininity and intelligence, though probably intelligence the most, I'd choose an average woman with either of those over someone better looking. But porn and masturbation are going to mess with a man's mate selection. So if you want to call these men male unicorns, keep in mind you don't know how many exist because sex technology is making them less likely to chase women, in my opinion.

JustForPPD · 2019-02-13T16:29:05+00:00

For me looks is about a threshold. Some "objective" 7/10 may not do it for me, while an "objective" 5/10 may be attractive to me. There are many factors that play into it. I've got to admit that I have lost my head over 8s, but I have been very comfy with 5s and 6s who were great, smart girls. The attractiveness difference also played nicely for me, hypergamy and all.

Million-Suns · 2019-02-13T16:31:00+00:00

Basically, how many men here value character and compatibility over looks?

For LTR, character and compatibility > looks. Looks will fade fast anyway

For STR , looks > the rest.

decoy88 · 2019-02-13T19:36:12+00:00

Mature men. Seriously it takes a minute to realise looks fade, no matter who you get with it doesn’t matter by age 50+

As long as she can get you hard and does all the freaky shit you like in bed, beyond that hotness is arbitrary.

Younger guys (15-23) tend to chase the hottest girls and hold onto them to their detriment. Younger girls do this too.

But a sign of immaturity is prioritising the wrong things.

eldritchfloormop · 2019-02-13T19:48:26+00:00

I'd love to prefer personality over looks, but attraction is not something you simply decide. I have to be excited to just see the woman if I'm supposed to really give it all in relationship.

Tedesche · 2019-02-13T22:05:04+00:00

darudeboysandstorm · 2019-02-13T23:37:42+00:00

Honestly I have tried, never works I am just not into 5/10s. I don't really want a 9 either though. Ideally I would want a 7 who almost has all those characteristics of the 5 but is likely a bit more narcissistic which I could deal with.

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2019-02-14T06:49:28+00:00

A man who values his time, his money, his relationships and his sanity will opt for the former. I believe that that is most men.

There are heaps of problematic hotties that are repellant to decent men. There is also a Cruela Devile-esk ugliness that sets in when you're convinced that your 9/10 is capable of genocide.

Or as Jay Cole would put it; She shaaaalllloooow.

tgertcher · 2019-02-15T04:16:23+00:00

Yeah except number one doesn't exist. If she did I would be happy to. If she's fuckable and stays fuckable, then personality matters more. I've had numerous girls who had great personalities but there was no attraction. My standards aren't super high either. Literally have a body shape that resembles a woman more than a blob and a decent personality.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2019-02-21T19:42:04+00:00

how many men here value character and compatibility over looks?

a few. males are mostly stuck on a primeval level .

LowCreddit · 2019-02-13T04:47:49+00:00

How many men espouse this attitude about dating?

All the Nice Guys who think they would be a catch if only some woman would give him a chance. Your quoted post reads like a Nice Guy creed. Honestly reading it makes me cringe.

Basically, how many men here value character and compatibility over looks?

Almost none. Most people aren't self-aware enough to do anything except what their genitalia tells them to do. The men and women who are capable of actually doing this and not just spouting bullshit are fucking amazing and rare.

wobbleelbbow · 2019-02-13T06:57:32+00:00

Betas and soy boys value character more over looks. At least they pretend since they can't get hot chicks. They need to convince themselves their woman is special and also to virtue signal because they think that's attractive.

Women aren't here for talking. If this beta wants a 5/10 so much so that he could talk to somebody before sleep about some philosophy stuff then he has much serious problems.

He doesn't have male friends. Masculine male friends. He is also boring and thinks that he needs a friend with boobs. He is so insecure that a woman will become soon part of his world. That's pathetic. When she cheats on him he will run to relationship_advice sub to get his daily dose of post wall women pats on the back that it is normal and he is a great man.

analt223 · 2019-02-13T15:34:05+00:00

depends, what does a 5/10 girl look like iyo

mindplaybyneo · 2019-02-13T16:30:45+00:00

I’ll take 5/10 in any day. Having to deal with girls who only have looks to offer. Although I’d still not trust her fully cause Awalt

Barely-moral · 2019-02-13T03:25:14+00:00

The first options sucks because she has a career. Any career woman does not have enough time to be a good partner to me.

It is likely that the second option is bad too. The more partners a woman had the less likely it is that I will be getting her best. Also, she will have a lot of options and I don't want to compete when it comes to relationships.

Both options are bad. If those are the only options I have then I guess I am going for the second one. It is not because of the looks because a 5/10 is enough for me, a 5/10 is already above the threshold. At least the second option doesn't have a career. Career women tend to suck as partners. I don't care about the fact that she has a sexual apetite or has communication skills, she does not have time and she already has her career as a priority. Her brain/interests were never relevant. I mean, is good that she has those but they are not a factor in the decision.

Title	Q4M: Who here identifies with this practical line of thinking?
Author	LeJacquelope
Upvotes	31
Comments	245
Date	February 13, 2019 1:48 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/aq1671/q4m_who_here_identifies_with_this_practical_line/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-who-here-identifies-with-this-practical-line.257246 https://theredarchive.com/post/257246

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