Quick reference guide to debunking myths spread by the manosphere

Muscletov · 2025-09-09T19:17:32+00:00

MYTH: Women only want the top 20% of men!

TRUTH: Debunked by the OKCupid survey that, ironically, is where the 80/20 rule came from. The survey found 80% of messages were sent to men who were "average" or lower, while 66% of messages from men were to the top 1/3 of women. Basically the exact opposite of what red pill claims.

https://medium.com/%40worstonlinedater/dating-apps-are-mostly-a-waste-of-time-for-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-and-the-rest-of-us-will-9b65c3bd0b88

So obviously it is bad to be a man of lower than average attractiveness on Hinge, but how bad is it really? Pretty bad. Figure 10 shows a break out of the percent of total likes for men and women for the groups of 80% — 100% attractiveness, 50% to 80% attractiveness, and 0% to 50% attractiveness. Women between 80% and 100% attractiveness receive 37% of all of the likes on Hinge. Women in the bottom 50% of attractiveness still receive 18% of all likes. This is more than all men combined, which receive 14% of the total Hinge likes. Most of these likes (9 out of 14) go to the men in the top 20% of attractiveness. So how bad is it to be a less than average attravtiveness man? The bottom 50% of men combined, which represents 1/3 of the total Hinge users, only receive 1% of the total likes. In conclusion, especially for men, datings apps are a waste of time unless you are among the most attractive, and the rest of us will likely die sad and alone.

DzejSiDi · 2025-09-09T21:07:36+00:00

Problem with "debunking" on the internet is that this is done by 1) people with nowhere near enough knowledge on certain topic 2) people think that picking random study on the internet that not even contradicts, but have different observations, "debunks" that claim.

No, this is not how reality works. Most egregious cases is when those "debunkers" complain about lack of sources, but they themselves don't even need those to make their claims lol, like in this case:

MYTH: Women only swipe right x% of the time, that proves the 80/20 rule is true!

TRUTH: This one doesn't even need a link to debunk. While women do swipe right less frequently, women only swiping on 5% of men does not mean women are swiping right on the same 5% of men.

Yes, we know they don't sweep on that EXACTLY SAME 5%, that's why they use oversimplified estimation of 20%. Gz on "debunking" claim that was never made, where more proper one was just 1 line of text above. And people know exactly who is getting all the likes, otherwise how all those dweebs doing "Tinder experiments" would guess who to use in their chadfishing shenanigans?

TRUTH: Debunked by the OKCupid survey that, ironically, is where the 80/20 rule came from. The survey found 80% of messages were sent to men who were "average" or lower, while 66% of messages from men were to the top 1/3 of women. Basically the exact opposite of what red pill claims.

Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion here, and instead of listening to OP (or me) I would suggest reread slowly how dating market looked in 2013 and think conclusions we can get from it. But when it comes to that famous 20/80 rule, it represents Pareto principle, that could be loosely translated to "winners take all", and that's how our dating market looks like. It could be even more extreme, like 95/5 in case of mentioned above Tinder, but contrary to what zoomer blackpillers used to say, Tinder is not a reality, in reality we don't have 2-to-8 or even 1-to-9 gender ratio.

TRUTH: The wording of the survey asks if men and women are in a committed relationship. If a man is dating multiple women which is the claim red pill makes, then he is either poly (only about 5% of the population) or he is not in a committed relationship and would be counted as single. While there are multiple possible explanations for the disparity, top men dating multiple women cannot be one of them.

You're confusing everything, and this link is not related to that 34% vs 64%, which was about young people under 30, this looks like a measure for general population.

MYTH: Women cheat way more!

TRUTH: Men are 50% more likely to cheat.

I've never seen in redpill circles people claiming that women cheat more. You just made this up. Considering optimal sexual strategies for both sexes, males have more incentives to cheat our so-called "serial monogamy". But this still doesn't tell us anything without considering, for example, relative position of power in sexual marketplace. Include that and even in this graph inside women below 30 cheat more, wow, shocking.

MYTH: Women lie way more!

TRUTH: While differences between genders tends to be relatively small, studies consistently find that men lie more.

Same problem, I don't remember last time when I've seen comparison like that. And since sexes lie differently about different things in different situations, I can easly make my own study that shows women lie more shrug.

TRUTH: Men are more likely to overestimate their attractiveness.

THINK FFS, THINK!

1) A guy rates himself as average

2) We have hard data from OKCupid, that 80% is "below average", so guy go in below average category, not "average" as he estimated.

3) "Men overestimate own attractiveness" bs.

Either way you believe OKCupid that shows you real data from real world and concludes that women are terrible at evaluating strangers, OR you believe some random study that... wait a minute

They found that men’s ratings of self-perceived attractiveness were higher than women’s ratings; however, looking at others' ratings, women were rated overall as more attractive than men.

Yep, still terrible at that.

I won't comment on law-issues since they're country-dependent.

ta06012022 · 2025-09-09T18:38:37+00:00

MYTH: Only 34% of women are single while 64% of men are single!

TRUTH: The wording of the survey asks if men and women are in a committed relationship. If a man is dating multiple women which is the claim red pill makes, then he is either poly (only about 5% of the population) or he is not in a committed relationship and would be counted as single. While there are multiple possible explanations for the disparity, top men dating multiple women cannot be one of them

That explains a small amount of the difference. Most of the difference is explained by absolutely massive over sampling of women who are married or living with a partner (while slightly under sampling men who are married or living with a partner).

We know what % of women 18-29 are actually married or living with a partner from Census data. Pew’s sample was fundamentally flawed.

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ksteay/comment/mto8tli/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

zgtlunatic · 2025-09-09T18:43:31+00:00

MYTH: Women are delusional about their looks!

TRUTH: Men are more likely to overestimate their attractiveness.

If I'm allowed to give some sort of perspective on this one as a current intermediate rater on TRM (I'll be a trusted rater soon enough) and going off of videos from QUOVES Studio and Julibee, I'll say both genders may tend to be dishonest about how attractive they are (but not only with themselves, but amongst each other as well IIRC).

Majestic-Aardvark-47 · 2025-09-09T18:30:24+00:00

With regards to your top two, any man who has set up a Chadfish account knows the truth. Every woman chases the Chadfish.

SeemedGood · 2025-09-09T21:09:54+00:00

Your analysis of the OK Cupid data mistakenly conflates attractiveness rating with messaging.

Intelligent-Insight · 2025-09-09T20:03:27+00:00

So, all self-reported stuff is unscientific and doesn't matter. The objective stuff is legit, but there are a few things you got wrong.

MYTH: Women always get half in a divorce!

TRUTH: "Community property" is the standard where marital assets are split 50/50. The majority of US states (41) and multiple western countries use "equitable distribution," where assets are divided based on a number of factors, including how much was brought into the marriage and how much was earned during the marriage. The vast majority of divorces do not automatically split 50/50.

So if one of the partners was a housewife or husband, then they get nothing? Of course, not, so there's no equitable distribution. Not to mention, that the message behind the "myth" is not about the number itself. It's about the fact that she can just decide to divorce out of nowhere or can cheat on you and still get stuff. As your link says, cheating is not considered when splitting assets.

MYTH: Women almost always get alimony!

TRUTH: Alimony is awarded in fewer than 10% of divorces and are most common among exceptionally wealthy.

Obviously, nobody says always always, they mean always when alimony is awarded. And your own link proves it: "Women are still the primary alimony recipients, but the number of men who receive alimony from their former spouses is increasing. According to the 2000 census, 0.5 percent of alimony recipients in the United States were male. By 2010, 3 percent of the 400,000 alimony recipients in the country were male."

So, myth is not debunked and probably isn't a myth.

MYTH: Men automatically go to jail for not paying child support!

TRUTH: 2/3 of parents who pay child support are delinquent and 2/3 of those are delinquent by at least 12 months (4.8 million people), which is larger than the entire US prison population combined.

Again, you don't get the point. And who says automatically? Are you just lying? What people say is that if a man doesn't pay child support, then legally the could go to jail. As in not paying it is illegal. The fact that this wasn't pursued/enforced as strictly, doesn't debunk anything. It's like in some states adultery is illegal (like you actually pay a fine and might spend days in jail), even though it's not really enforced.

growframe · 2025-09-09T18:34:24+00:00

MYTH: Only 34% of women are single while 64% of men are single! TRUTH: The wording of the survey asks if men and women are in a committed relationship. If a man is dating multiple women which is the claim red pill makes, then he is either poly (only about 5% of the population) or he is not in a committed relationship and would be counted as single. While there are multiple possible explanations for the disparity, top men dating multiple women cannot be one of them

This doesn't debunk anything?

First of all, you don't debunk the claim to begin with, only the explanation for it.

And secondly... that's not how it works? If in a group of 5 men and 5 women, and all 5 of the women are in a relationship with one man, that goes down as 100% of the women being paired up and only 20% the men being paired up. It doesn't matter whether the man says he is single or not, the disparity is being explained by the women dating the same man. You'd need to prove this isn't the case to debunk the claim.

median child support owed is $5,150 per year,

Your source links to the same page as your source for the costs of raising a child, which doesn't mention child support anywhere.

GoldyTwatus · 2025-09-09T19:39:57+00:00

For the first claim you couldn't be more wrong - That OkCupid article shows women rate ~80% of men below “medium” attractiveness. When you look at messages, women are “only just slightly” more likely to message higher-rated men than their ratings would predict. Women’s messages are not overwhelmingly to “average-or-lower” men, they’re closer to their (extremely harsh) ratings, with a mild tilt upward

CandidMatch4547 · 2025-09-09T18:49:50+00:00

As for the first one, doesn’t that just show that women are willing to date guys they don’t find attractive? Kinda displaying the whole “women settle with guys they don’t find hot” thing.

Also for the second one you can’t really disprove or prove that unless you have solid data on who is getting the swipes. For all we know it’s the same exact guys or completely different guys or maybe somewhere in the middle with some overlap. Can’t really call it a myth.

And then in the third one, I don’t really get what you mean. Why can’t it be top men dating multiple women? I’m confused if u don’t mind explaining

NiceCaterpillar8745 · 2025-09-09T18:47:25+00:00

While there are multiple possible explanations for the disparity, top men dating multiple women cannot be one of them.

Are you familiar with the term "situationship"? That's what's happening here. There is no other reason for the disparity. So women are just sharing guys.

Which leads me to...

Men are 50% more likely to cheat

The men who get relationships (i.e. the top 20%) are the ones most women are attracted to. Hence why they can cheat - options and temptation. If a woman finds a top 20% man, she may never cheat because (a) she actually likes him and (b) it's rare for her to encounter another top 20% guy to cheat with.

IgorXY · 2025-09-09T18:35:15+00:00

TRUTH: Debunked by the OKCupid survey that, ironically, is where the 80/20 rule came from. The survey found 80% of messages were sent to men who were "average" or lower, while 66% of messages from men were to the top 1/3 of women. Basically the exact opposite of what red pill claims.

By women's estimation of attractiveness. Usually what women say is an "average" or slightly lower man is basically not a celebrity level but still very handsome and tall guy. Besides, this is 2009, I am sorry but it basically another planet now. I dare you to find any modern statistics from dating apps, there is a reason they don't make it public. Closest is user's reports in r/ Tinder.

Which actually shows women don't even swipe right on 5%, it is less. And Sure this 5% is different, but still with high overlaps, and it does not really matter.

Debunk this: modern dating sucks for average and below men, if you did not secure a wife from school or uni, it is close to impossible to meet anyone, untill later half of 30s when settling starts.

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2025-09-09T19:28:57+00:00

>The survey found 80% of messages were sent to men who were "average" or lower, while 66% of messages from men were to the top 1/3 of women.

Yeah, you don't take into account that the women there openly admitted that most men were below average

I don't know how that improves the situation other than it proves the RP theory about "settling" and betabucks

>While women do swipe right less frequently, women only swiping on 5% of men does not mean women are swiping right on the same 5% of men.

Trying to deny the existence of attractiveness types and that some of them are more attractive than others. Good denial of reality

And it's funny that this take of yours is completely destroyed by the previous one because women openly admitted that 80% of men are below average. And it's the same 80% of men who remain below so...

The same men are attractive

>While there are multiple possible explanations for the disparity, top men dating multiple women cannot be one of them

You understand that this is a strange contradiction

If you take 10 men and ten women, and at the same time 6 women in a relationship and three men in a relationship.

Here you don't even need to have elementary concepts in mathematics to understand that some shit doesn't add up

>Men are 50% more likely to cheat.

Sure, but most men are unattractive or even lonely romantically

Of course there is no contradiction

>Men are more likely to overestimate their attractiveness.

I am so tired of this lie that I even found the original study.

It turned out that the perception of one's own appearance and that of others is similar for men, and how they "overestimate their attractiveness" also works the other way, because they see others as more attractive.

So even if a hypothetical man 5/10 thinks that he is 7/10, then when he sees a woman 5/10, he will think that she is 7. And a woman 7, he will think that she is 9 and so on... Well, you get the idea

>There is no evidence feminists drove Earl Silverman to suicide. But Earl explicitly blamed the majority male Canadian government

Yeah, just like there is no systematic persecution of those who continued his work

Just like it is not a fact that women vote in government elections more

Just like it is not a fact that the liberal agenda that prevailed in Canada is not female-centric and aimed at the maximum denigration of men and whitewashing of women. This is literally from his suicide note!

Mission-Jicama-8747 · 2025-09-10T02:17:14+00:00

I'ma stop you right there, everyone and I do mean everyone knows women are incredibly picky when it comes to online dating and yes, there is a small subset of men most women are interested in.

Logos1789 · 2025-09-09T18:59:34+00:00

Like most fact checks, the specificity of the claims being checked makes a world of difference.

Take the “80/20 rule” for example…there’s still nothing precluding most women from preferring a minority of men, yet you will dunk on the specific ratio as being misguided.

welcometothejl · 2025-09-09T19:58:19+00:00

If 100% of men asked for custody you wouldn't have 79% of custody awarded to men. Men don't win because they fight for custody, but rather fight for custody when they know they can win. Court is an expensive waste of resources which is also the same reason they settle out of court. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

The only way to have a fair court system is to have a presumption of equal custody, and have equal custody equal no child support.

GhostXmasPast342 · 2025-09-09T20:48:11+00:00

So, if women aren’t sleeping with the same subset of men why are there sites titled, “Are We Sleeping with the Same Man?” Of course, there is the Tea app where they can talk about the same subset of men they are sleeping with.

Ok_Cook_3098 · 2025-09-09T18:39:09+00:00

Wow what a pile of garbage, wehre do i start.

Look at the same study, below like 80% of the guys in the study count as below avarage. And how many percent of the first massages are send by woman? Probably less then 10%

2. Yes not the same 5%, no one said that, some woman like arts Chad, some like nerd Chad, some like raw Chad. Differentet tastes of chad

3. You get it completely wrong, the theorie says the woman thinks she is in a relationship, Chad thinks it's just another woman he will ghost in 2 weeks

Jesus what a rambling

It would be ultra based if you would have sources for all but this is just rambling, you don't even get the points right, you just ramble

VersionEins · 2025-09-09T18:47:42+00:00

Men are more likely to overestimate their attractiveness.

You cited this in response to the idea that women are delusional about their looks, instead claiming that men are delusional. The problem here is that there is nothing wrong with overestimating one's attractiveness.

Gold_Sheepherder6569 · 2025-09-09T20:50:24+00:00

TRUTH: Debunked by the OKCupid survey that, ironically, is where the 80/20 rule came from. The survey found 80% of messages were sent to men who were "average" or lower, while 66% of messages from men were to the top 1/3 of women. Basically the exact opposite of what red pill claims.

I'm not sure how OkCupid works. If it is opening messages or messages to each other because if it is the latter then that could be easily explained by the fact that women rarely message and more attractive men are also less likely to message so women would be more likely to have a message chain with average men since they will message first, so those women would respond to those men. Obviously this is just an assumption, though I think there is sense to it is the more attractive men received 11x more messages than the less attractive ones and 2.75x than medium ones(scroll lower in your link).

TRUTH: Men are more likely to overestimate their attractiveness.

You really should have read the study, their measure of attractiveness was "natural beauty", Natural beauty is described as what is left after sexiness and hotness have been removed., the reason they did this is because: Whereas using a congruent measure of “sexual attractiveness” might seem more appropriate at ﬁrst, we opted against this because doing so would exclude many participants who were not (1) heterosexual, (2) within the same age range, or (3) of the opposite sex as their interacting partner.

Basically the raters were to rate people based on aesthetics similar to a painting or the like not based on how sexually attractive others would find them whether this lead to actual discrepancies in ratings of attractiveness vs "natural beauty" I don't know but it is important to note. I should also point out that the study didn't show how men vs women were rated by other as a group on average, it just showed the rating men and women gave others as a group on average. So no this study didn't actually assess which sex overestimates their attractiveness and you can't infer this from the data.

aslfingerspell · 2025-09-09T21:51:43+00:00

This one doesn't even need a link to debunk. While women do swipe right less frequently, women only swiping on 5% of men does not mean women are swiping right on the same 5% of men.

The smaller percentage of men women are attracted to, the greater diversity and difference there must be for it to not be concentrated, and either way there's less attention for men.

For example, imagine there's 10 women and 10 men. If each woman only likes 1 man, that's only 10 outgoing likes for 10 men. Every woman's tastes have to be wholly unique for every man to get at least 1 person interested in him.

If each man only likes 40% of women, that's 40 outgoing likes for 10 women. Men, I think, have greater diversity of taste, but either way that's far more volume to spread around.

hankpeggyhill · 2025-09-09T21:48:25+00:00

The percentage stuff (80/20, 34/64, etc.) doesn't need statistical evidence to be true, just ability to think logically. Do we really need proof that sleeping around is costlier for women than men? There's a natural reason women who give in to sleeping around are shunned, and men who manage to sleep around are praised.

And almost no one in the "manosphere" says women lie more, cheat more, etc. What they say is why cheating, lying, etc. should be treated differently in both genders (for essentially the same reason as stated above).

Fun_Push7168 · 2025-09-09T22:54:41+00:00

I'll just address the most painfully obvious and the flagrant garbage point here even though most of this could be easily shredded.

Custody.

Your bullshit study from Massachusetts. Yeah for starters it's a single state study from 1989 so not even applicable.

Second it uses the word "custody" the way we'd think of visitation. Literally any amount of time granted was considered "custody" in its definitions.

Third your 79% number based on that study's data refers to transitions from zero visitation to some.) after having had rights withheld for some reason.....yeah no shit they eventually got some.

There's one reason and one reason alone this same bullshit limited scope deceptive study has been cited and recited by feminist sources for 36 years now. It's literally the only one that is deceptive enough to actually give numbers that look favorable.

Even the person who conducted it has come out and said it's bullshit in a legalese way.

Here's the closest up to date numbers concerning who gets what.

https://www.custodyxchange.com/topics/research/dads-custody-time-by-state.php

Well....lets throw in the 50/50 bit. It would actually be better if more states had it. On average , women are awarded more in "equitable distribution" so it turns out closer to 60/40. Exceptions being obvious large assets acquired and paid for prior to the marriage.

In divorce, the spouse with less earning power, a shorter employment history, greater financial needs, or a longer marriage duration is more likely to be awarded more property and financial support

Guess who that is ....I'll give you a hint, men earn more in about 70% of marriages. About 30% he earns all the money and about 25% he earns at least 50% more yearly.

welcometothejl · 2025-09-09T20:02:31+00:00

Alimony not being awarded doesn't take into consideration that alimony can still be used as a bargaining chip. For example, your ex could say, "I will waive alimony, but I want the house."

TransmissionsSigned · 2025-09-09T19:07:45+00:00

I do not think these 'myths' to be true. Having said that:

Dude, your arguments suck.

The Red Pill claims only 20% of men are attractive to women. This does not mean that only 20% of men are an option to women. Your debunk debunks nothing.
They don't know if there is an overlap in that 5% and you don't know if there is an overlap in that 5%. Therefore, the only available metric is anecdotal experience. Obviously, their lived experience supports their beliefs.
'The wording of the survey...'. Do you think this hypothetical man dating five people will care about 'the wording of the survey'? The question is read as 'are you dating someone'. Because most people gloss over surveys.
Semantics. The point made when bringing this up is that women have an unfair advantage in divorce procedings. Not that it is automatic. Deal with the true argument.
Nothing to say here.
'Women almost always get alimony' refers to women being the largest fraction of people who get alimony. Not the percentage of divorces which lead there.
I don't see your point. It's money going from one party to another, and it's generally one-directional.
Your debunk is unrelated to the point made. You tend to ignore the point made.
You are using as proof surveys which depend on the answers from people who are suspected to be liars? (as cheaters are). Do you perhaps see the problem? The fact that more men admit to cheat could even be used as evidence that men lie less, because they admit their wrongdoings. Weak.
See 9.
Shoddy methodology, but I'm not going to start analyzing the whole study.
I neither care or know anything about this.

throwaway73737828 · 2025-09-09T23:04:30+00:00

Non of this shit debunks anything, look at whats happening in reality than these “studies”. We know who women texts a lot. Go check a average guys instagram messages and a attractive or desired guys one, big fucking difference. The only gender who complains about the divorce stuff is only men, non of these women seems to give a shit whats gonna happen to that men after the divorce, I dont see any complaints coming from them.

Yes women cheat more duh. Who has the more options gonna cheat more and also look at what messages is being given to women, fuck multiple guys, dont waste your youth, have the most fun etc. Most men dont even have the capability to cheat for their lack of options. If men would get as same attention as women, there wouldn’t be a second thought to it 100% men would cheat more but thats not the case. And every stuff you wrote here doesnt equate to reality.

N_Count_Council · 2025-09-09T18:51:46+00:00

TRUTH: Debunked by the OKCupid survey that, ironically, is where the 80/20 rule came from. The survey found 80% of messages were sent to men who were "average" or lower, while 66% of messages from men were to the top 1/3 of women. Basically the exact opposite of what red pill claims.

First off, according to OKC, women estimate 88% of men to be average or below.

2nd off, wouldn't this just mean that women are just more ok with settling, counter to what they say on reddit?

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slazengerx · 2025-09-09T23:52:19+00:00

I'm a no-piller and don't really understand all of the debate on which pill is "right." I'm 58 and done more dating than probably 95% of the folks on this sub. And I've seen multiples of anecdotal incidents that support each of the pills (and, by definition, refute the other pills). I think the black pill stuff is the most off the wall but... but... I can remember situations that, in hindsight, would definitely be categorized as "black pill confirmed." The problem is there are grains of truth in all of the pills which, again, means that there are grains of refutation of the other pills. The fact is, people are different. And they change. But they also share a lot of similarities. And they don't change that much. All of this pill business just seems like a silly (and vaguely autistic?) attempt to categorize people and relationship dynamics - which are highly nuanced - into something that makes more universal sense; an activity rife with confirmation bias and projection. It all just seems a bit ridiculous. The upside is that this is the reason I find this sub so amusing.

JustGeminiThings · 2025-09-13T18:18:24+00:00

I miss alex.datepsych YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/BocSLZYis-E?si=9bXxbmPRyieA8_sL

alwaysright0 · 2025-09-09T19:45:44+00:00

Lesbians dont have higher dv rates

Men dont provide

North Vincent didnt kill herself because she lived trying to pass as a man

Tiny_Celebration_591 · 2025-09-10T00:20:13+00:00

I find these men don't want facts, they want an echo chamber.

0x474f44 · 2025-09-10T07:00:39+00:00

One cant claim that men cheat more often than women and then only consider physical cheating. Women are more likely to cheat emotionally and this has to be considered as well.

Title	Quick reference guide to debunking myths spread by the manosphere
Author	Solondthewookiee
Upvotes	2
Comments	230
Date	September 9, 2025 6:23 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ncqq13/quick_reference_guide_to_debunking_myths_spread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/quick-reference-guide-to-debunking-myths-spread-by.1561645 https://theredarchive.com/post/1561645

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