Self-improvement is a scam

KayRay1994 · 2024-06-13T16:04:58+00:00

I think self improvement as a concept is great, but self improvement as a pitch to get women is a recipe for failure - not cause you might or might not be successful, but rather, because you’re not doing it for yourself and you’re setting yourself up for a crash (it also adds to the problem in that you’re working for a promise that isn’t even guaranteed)

self improve because it improves your physical, mental and emotional health. Do so because it opens your life up to so much more as far as possibilities, so it for the sake of expanding your own horizons and setting yourself up for a better future - but don’t do so under the promise of something that isn’t a guarantee, hell, you can start with the intent of women but your motives have to evolve. I started to impress a woman, but i learned that i actually just really enjoy lifting, and i expanded my own worth because it kept making me feel better. Sure, women started noticing me 4 years (2 years ago) in and it does feel nice - but I don’t feel a particular need for a woman and am content going by my own path till the right one comes along (and if she doesn’t, oh well)

imo too many things are sold to men with the intent of getting women. “be a good person so women will like you”, “lift so women will like you”, “make money so women will be interested in you” and so on. Men need to be taught to do these things for the sake of doing them, for the reward being his own well being - stop attaching your own destiny to what woman may want or like, it ain’t a healthy way to live.

gigachadhd · 2024-06-13T18:51:28+00:00

Self improvement is actually a red flag for women. If a guy makes a big deal about how he is on his game and self improvement, women will wonder is he overcompensating for some thing. Women don’t care about your self improvement plans. They want guys who have already got themselves together

Sure_Tourist1088 · 2024-06-13T21:22:28+00:00

The biggest scam about self improvement is that even when it works and you get a girlfriend you like, you realise she’s never done a moment of soul searching or self improvement. She just rolled a better number at birth and will ride it through a lazy life of privilege and entitlement. Meanwhile, you need to work like a dog with a level of determination and self discipline she can’t even comprehend just to be an option she settled for. That’s a f@@king scam.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-06-13T16:05:27+00:00

Self improvement is a way of life. Realizing as a man you can always improve and strive for more. Will it get you a more attractive girlfriend? Maybe, maybe not, depends on where you started, but let's say it doesn't. Let's say you can't find a woman you find attractive that is into you. You'll still have a much more kick ass life because of all that work.

More than likely it will get you better options for a girlfriend as well.

Spiritual_Hamster945 · 2024-06-13T23:52:12+00:00

In my opinion you either "have it" or you don't

purplish_possum · 2024-06-14T01:36:43+00:00

Only results matter. Women don't give a shit how much or how little effort was required.

obviousredflag · 2024-06-13T15:57:01+00:00

Women don't care how much self-improvement you put in, if they did then the guys who actually put in the work would not complain but you see it time again on this sub of guys complaining about "l did everything but zero results

For every guy who did everything and had zero results, there is a guy who started out the same, did not improve, and had success. Having a girlfriend is not rocket science. Guys on every level of the economic or bodybuilding scale have girlfriends. Scrawny broke guys have girlfriends.

Self improvement is to get BETTER girlfriends. If you fail to get a girlfriend in your current state, this is not addressed with money or muscles.

Sudden_Difference432 · 2024-06-13T16:42:21+00:00

Seems meaningless to me, like Sisyphus climbing the rock uphill.

eeekkkgg · 2024-06-14T02:45:12+00:00

What's important to realize is that the average person doesn't do any actual self-improvement. They merely * think* that they do.

They just do random stuff, fumble around, and land fine because they're normal. But they want to brag, and their ego comes up with this delusion about how much work they put in. But they didn't, they just stumbled into things.

This is why the advice they give to truly abnormal people doesn't work. Because they don't understand this very dynamic.

krackedy · 2024-06-13T15:57:18+00:00

You're way more likely to hear from the whiners and complainers than the people happy in relationships.

ta06012022 · 2024-06-13T16:48:18+00:00

Women don't care how much self-improvement you put in

Of course they don't. Neither do men.

The point of self improvement isn't to impress people with how hard you worked. The point is to make yourself a more desirable partner. That can mean looking better, being more financially stable, having better social skills, etc. The process of self-improvement isn't what improves your performance with women. It's the results.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-06-13T22:18:50+00:00

And it's always boils down to physique and money. But where is self in that? Where does it address personality development?

For all the empty talks about personality being most important it has very little place in the current self-improvement meta.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-06-13T15:48:58+00:00

Yeah, everyone knows 17 year old You knows everything and is in peak physical, emotional and professional form! It doesn’t get better?

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DivideOk2944 · 2024-06-14T03:48:19+00:00

This stems from ignorance. Men don’t realize that they can never get that true desire from women because it is based off of your looks. The men who do the best with women while they’re in their prime are tall and attractive. The men who aren’t like this realize something’s up and get pulled down this rabbit hole telling them if they get muscles and money and status that women will desire them but it’s not true. Women ONLY desire very attractive men. Now a woman can still care for you and settle for you etc but they’re never going to have that passion and desire there. There is no dating solution for the average man. In the past the solution was finances because women couldn’t work but nowadays they can. So most men don’t fit that provider role since the women are making the same amounts of money. That leaves women to search for looks and status. Many men don’t realize but attractive men get what you work for. The girl comes over immediately, she will let you do anything to her, she’ll even feel genuine love based off of your looks. But women will deny this and say it’s personality. It’s not true. No amount of money or personality or anything else is going to compensate and garner true desire.

Queen_BW · 2024-06-13T15:56:30+00:00

I love everything self improvement bc I dont want to feel like I wasted my life not trying to be the best version of myself.

In the case of men being told to self improve in order to get women, I dont think they mean it as a solution but to increase the odds of it happening. A guy in shape and with his shit together has better odds of getting women than an overweight NEET.

Bekiala · 2024-06-13T15:58:14+00:00

I suppose it depends on who you are. I try everyday to live better.

I know many people have circumstances beyond their control that they can't change and their lives will never get better no matter what they do. However, my life is so so much better at 61 than 21. I wouldn't relive my twenties for all the money in world.

berichorbeburied · 2024-06-13T16:07:50+00:00

Your literally wrong

Self improvement is progress.

Positive is positive

Positive progress means more positive progress suggesting an increase.

Positive is good. More of something good is more good or better in general.

With that out of the way

The disconnect is sometimes good is not good enough.

So while you are making good progress it might not be good enough to get you results.

And that’s not positive progresses fault. Or self improvements fault.

It’s your fault for not making enough positive progress or self improvement to matter.

For example let’s say you make 1$ everyday. That’s good progress because it’s positive. But that not enough to matter to someone who’s looking at you for financial stability.

So that’s not good enough

Let’s say now you make a million dollars a day. Wait now look all of sudden you are more attractive to more women and now more people are interested in you

Another example.

Let’s say you’ve been working out for 2 years but you barely have muscle definition and you look just like a skightky skinny male. It would be understandable if not many women fawn over you.

But now let’s say you’ve been working out and you have muscle definition m. You are aesthetically built. You look like a statue. And even have sharp definition in your face with a strong jawline. Now some women might start fawning over you for existing.

This isn’t rocket science.

I man has to be way greater than average/normak/the plateau.

Your not doing enough is often the truth.

Sometimes you can’t do more. And that’s just what it is.

But it’s not the concepts fault that you can’t reach past the ceiling.

And it might not be within your control.

It is what it is

Solondthewookiee · 2024-06-13T17:15:28+00:00

Women don't care how much self-improvement you put in,

Because self improvement isn't for women. It's for yourself. It's right in the word. Jesus Christ.

Kaminaxgurren · 2024-06-13T15:56:10+00:00

It's not a scam if you disregard what women think and do it for yourself. The women you describe aren't worth the struggle or your time, but you should want to put in at least some work to a reasonable degree for yourself.

SaBahRub · 2024-06-13T16:14:03+00:00

Ok, go ahead and stay at home, avoid talking to people, remain unemployed and uneducated, and do nothing

I’m sure that will work out well

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Audi_fanboy · 2024-06-13T16:41:29+00:00

I don't have a full opinion on self improvement. Sometimes I think it's helpful, other times I think about that line in fight club and part of your opinion comes to mind as well. However, I gotta say that the universe was right about not giving me a better dating life when I was younger. I was immature, didn't really go out that much, didn't know how to talk to people, but specially woman, and so on. After I discovered self improvement (together with other things, like stoicism and stuff), I grew up as a person, learned how to talk with people, to have my self worth, to not let people go through me, to be more assertive, to improve my body and face, and so on.

You can say that this is not really tied to self improvement, and that if I didn't discover self improvement I could have learned through other ways, either through friend, girlfriend, or life in general. But those thing were indeed learned through the self improvement space in my case.

I'm a totally different person right now. It may not work for everyone, but it kinda did for me, I feel much better mentally.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-06-13T23:15:02+00:00

I think you assume that everyone who has a girlfriend didn’t do any work to get her, or didn’t have to improve anything.

kvakerok_v2 · 2024-06-14T04:36:23+00:00

No, it's not a scam, as long as you understand that self-improvement is incremental. It can move you up a couple points. If you were a 7 and it gets you to 9, you'll suddenly find yourself swimming in pussy. If you were a 2 on a good day, and it gets your to 4, yeah, that'll do fuck all for your desirability.

macdaddy0800 · 2024-06-14T17:47:43+00:00

Men who complain about self-improvement have not breached that threshold were their efforts have proven results INTERNALLY and ETERNALLY.

This aspect is gender neutral.

rag3light · 2024-06-15T06:08:07+00:00

Self improvement is the only way.

Mainstream self improvement is stupid and worse than therapy.

Good self improvement:

Short? Break your fucking legs boyo.

Ugly? Cut that face up freak.

Weak? Needle to the glutes, sissy.

Aka WHATEVER IT TAKES

RevolutionaryJob7908 · 2024-06-15T17:35:57+00:00

Yes, its an agenda. Scam isn't a bad word to use. It's like when women tried hard to be beautiful, or still do in other countries. It's an attempt to let women be nothing great and lazy, and let all selections of men be amazing. The only thing I could figure out, is to be what I want from a woman, on the other field. So if I want a 7, I will improve to a 7. Doing so just leaves no good options, but every day I win when she gets trashed by a scumbag man, because I wasn't there. I actively ensure no attention or resources. Which shrinks their in person experience of men doing things for them unless they just want sex. Where have all the good men gone? Honestly no clue how this will end, but what I can't do, is do what I did in my 20s. I have to cut off everything and let it rot. There's no 7s for me so allow the verdict of time to continue. It's a winning war, at great cost.

Clean_Woodpecker_974 · 2024-06-18T19:44:38+00:00

You can only do so much until your genetics bottleneck you. And if you come off like a self improving tryhard women will be turned off because they prefer genetically blessed men who don't have to work for anything.

jymssg · 2024-06-23T09:12:40+00:00

just gotta do self improvement for yourself, not women

jazzmaster1992 · 2024-06-13T16:07:07+00:00

It's not a scam unless you are doing it out of a belief that you'll receive some sort of external benefit or reward. The reality is that you can "improve" yourself until your dying breath and it's no guarantee that women (or anyone) will appreciate the effort you put into that improvement, especially if it only really benefits you and not them.

If you're working on yourself because you want to be a better you every day, have right at it. If you're doing it so other people like you, you're at the mercy of their judgements and you'll be susceptible to feeling worse when you don't have the outcome you wanted. So you'll have to accept that no matter what you do, not everyone is going to like you or find you attractive, and the people who do like you and find you attractive may be interested in other qualities you have.

I would maybe consider your social skills, how well you connect with others and how you make people feel over trying to make yourself a self-actualized demi god that's "worthy" of someone else's time and affection. TRP and PUA guys are onto something when they talk about stuff like "tingles" or generally being a relaxed, open, interesting person that brings positive energy into other people's lives. This isn't to say the other stuff doesn't help. It's just that being jaded, acting anxious or being closed off absolutely can sabotage your ability to really form relationships with others, despite whatever you believe when the Manosphere or anyone else tells you to just work on yourself until people magically start showing up in your life.

relish5k · 2024-06-13T19:16:35+00:00

of course women don’t care about how much effort you put in. nobody cares about how much effort you put in other than your kindergarten teacher. effort is erroneous for adults RESULTS are what matters

but yeah self improvement is a scam because everyone (including women) is looking to self improve and the answer is it’s super simple: eat less, sleep more, drink more water, eat your vegetables, move your body, put yourself out there, have gratitude, have patience, have grit. but it’s really fucking hard to actually do this stuff so people seek out gurus and self help books and tarot cards and shit hoping that it will be a cheat code. and maybe it does help for a time…but at the end of the day no one is going to make your life better except you.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-06-14T02:43:04+00:00

"l did everything but zero results"

I mean I did everything and it's awesome. Not sure what you mean. It's blue pill people who try it yet still can't be a nice guy and get decent results.

DzejSiDi · 2024-06-13T20:19:20+00:00

My god almighty, first of all: change your flair. Then learn some basics like a difference between "negotiating desire" vs "making yourself more desirable". And then stop being such a b**tch, you even have a mindset of one, like beliving in just being born princess and focusing on what "women" (not men) deserve.

"l did everything but zero results"

Evil, primordial curse casted upon your pitiful existence preventing you from getting ANY results. Already pretty known among fat people "I've tried every diet and nothing worked".

Theres is a popular phase in manosphere "Modern men have to work 5x harder than their grandfathers for women 20x worse than what their grandmothers were.". Of course that's a hyperbole, but it shows current market sentiment. Don't wanna try at all? Fine by me and can be even reasonable take based of your circumstances. Rat race for mouldy cheese is not for everyone. "Self-improvement is a scam"? What's the issue? People that you have thought are "below" you are getting somewhere and you can't cope with it well enough?

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-06-13T17:35:31+00:00

Self-improvement is for the yourself. You get out of it what you put into it, and if you’re only putting in empty efforts for external goals and not earnestly investing in your soul and self, than no duh you’re going to get empty results.

Sad_and_grossed_out · 2024-06-13T19:29:20+00:00

If you just want to sit around a place video games all day and night, never work out, never have hobbies, never go out, never advance in a career or business, thats fine. Just don't complain when a horny hot naked chick never shows up to you gaming room to fuck you in between call of duty rounds 😭

I truly don't understand how people don't want to self improve and become better versions of themselves for THEMSELVES not to get women or men. Like what else do you wake up excited for??

2024-06-13T19:50:29+00:00

It’s really not

If you haven’t hit the gym consistently for about 10wks you have no reason to be whining. Every fat dude/ skinny asf guy I know went from little to no attention to much better results.

Then you have the mind which is always great to improve on

Don’t see how people can shit on self improvement unless they tried themselves for an extend period

Brilliant_Island8498 · 2024-06-13T17:02:39+00:00

You are lazy dude. Just stop , even blue pill people agree with self improvement

Stop being a crybaby

Every man can get a great body and earn six figures. Stop complaining

DoubleFistBishh · 2024-06-13T16:12:22+00:00

No it's because in the context of dating a lot of people don't know what self-improvement actually is for them.

not_mr_nice · 2024-06-13T18:29:00+00:00

You either do nothing or do something.

Or you can just cry about how unfair your existence is.

not_mr_nice · 2024-06-14T00:07:47+00:00

Just dug this out from a private fb group I am in. You do NOT use your self-improvement efforts as a way to impress women. 'You do it for you and STFU about it. Exhibit A 5.5 ft Indian virgin trying to seek validation using his until then successful self improvement:

His self improvement got him to this point. For the looks are all that matter crowd, he couldn't even speak to a woman previously, despite his looks.

<image>

nightsofthesunkissed · 2024-06-14T03:18:01+00:00

"I don't want to improve myself"

Okay then, don't?

No one is forcing you to improve yourself.

BackToTheMoon_ · 2024-06-14T03:53:52+00:00

No. Self improvement is good

It just doesn’t guarantee you consistent pussy but it will increase your chances at consistent pussy

suffrnfrmreelness · 2024-06-14T07:15:59+00:00

This guy is so sad so your entire argument is I’ve never won so why are you trying to win?

Adept_Initial9916 · 2024-06-16T10:17:58+00:00

Self-improvement is the only way to maybe win in hypergamy. If you manage to go from a 5 to an 8 you're winning.

flipsidetroll · 2024-06-13T17:16:33+00:00

I think what the redpill self-improvement mantra was aiming at, is that it is SELF improvement. Of course, redpill morons can’t explain it properly and redpill learner morons can’t understand the nuances of anything that isn’t explicitly aimed at getting women. So, I shall explain it so you get it.

So let’s say you are in a job you hate, even if you’re successful, you can’t see growth in it, you might drink a little too much and are feeling a bit unhealthy, and you really want to paint, but you don’t have any idea how to do it. So you aren’t unhappy but you are kind of existing. Well, this is when you actually take stock of what you really want in your future. Now, of course you aren’t going to magically get the job of your dreams, but you can do things to make your present job better. A sideways move to a different department? Asking if the company has any study perks you can utilise? Your new enthusiasm could be noticed and other suggestions are made that could spark you, and encourage you. You decide to go dry for 6 months and start playing a sport. And that gets endorphins flowing and you’re less lethargic and feeling happier. And you step out of your comfort zone and take adult painting classes. After 6 months, you’re a little fitter, studying and realised that you’re a terrible artist, but you enjoy it and have made a couple new friends.

That lovely little story that didn’t end in mind-blowing success for you and you drowning in pussy, is to show you how self improvement works. It means being self aware, and being honest with yourself about what you want and how to take those steps to achieve it. It’s about nothing except how you can improve your life to feel happier. And guess what??? Ding ding ding. A happier or more content man is a confident man. And we all know how confidence works.

Get it?

RubyDiscus · 2024-06-13T17:18:36+00:00

Self improvement is a good thing but what's most important is a good attitude

SuperCyberWitchcraft · 2024-06-13T20:10:19+00:00

I don't do it for pussy

Whoreasaurus_Rex · 2024-06-13T21:34:42+00:00

You should want to improve yourself for your own personal gain. Not to get your dick wet.

Difficult_Falcon1022 · 2024-06-14T02:00:40+00:00

As a woman i certainly taoe my self development seriously because why wouldn't you want to lead your best life, and grow and achieve the things you want.

Of course being a higher level version of yourself may help you attract someone, but I think if you think of the entirety of your life's work to be about pussy then I think that's just an odd way to think about it. Is vagina the only reason you'd want to get educated, get a career, go to the gym, be social?

If so then yeah I can see why a basic chick is the best you can do.

EsotericRonin · 2024-06-14T03:33:48+00:00

This is stupid. Self improvement is literally just maximize how you look physically and feel mentally. You don't get pussy as a reward. The idea is it just makes you stand out in a positive way because it demonstrates positive characteristics and it has overall life benefits. And 99 percent of dudes who say "i did everything" just got a haircut and tried a new fashion trend or something.

Sharp_Platform8958 · 2024-06-13T18:28:56+00:00

It's only a scam if you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You need to do it for yourself and not for external praise.

gusGus86_ · 2024-06-13T21:27:46+00:00

That’s why you are supposed to improve for yourself. Not women. They can smell it in you.

I can tell you what doesn’t get women, being lazy, and having a shitty attitude about improving yourself.

If you don’t give a shit about them, and do it to better yourself, it’s like shit to flies.

They don’t care about your improvement. They care about the results, so if you have no results. Then have you really improved?

Self improvement is only valuable if you actually improve and keep going.

Title	Self-improvement is a scam
Author	DarayRaven
Upvotes	30
Comments	157
Date	June 13, 2024 3:45 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1df2590/selfimprovement_is_a_scam/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/self-improvement-is-a-scam.1521487 https://theredarchive.com/post/1521487

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