Looks Don't Matter

meltingpot1 · 2012-11-15T23:29:39+00:00

As an attractive guy who's working out the social aspects of pick up, this post is almost a downer.

Reminds me of what I see everyday.

I get attention from girls, but really, when it comes down to pulling hb 8-10s, charisma is essential.

It's getting there.

angry_dave · 2012-11-15T23:42:02+00:00

Guys need to be more realistic with themselves about what makes women attractive to them. It's easy to say 'yeah she's hot, I'd fuck her' but if she's boring or annoying or generally has a shitty personality you're not going to want to clock the hours necessary to make that happen. Girls do the same thing, except they've all experienced an abundance of attractive men trying to get in their pants and have more of an understanding that the personality is what's really interesting. Remember, after the sex you still have to talk to the person

Looks help you get your foot in the door and can help bail you out if you say some stupid shit, but you can't rely on them to get you into bed and you can't use it as an excuse for why nobody's giving you the time of day.

mchvll · 2012-11-15T22:32:05+00:00

As a guy, I will admit that I dated a short, chubby, ugly girl for a while simply because she had an awesome personality and was super fun. I really liked this chick yet she was ugly as sin. Only broke it off eventually because of my ego.

pickup_sticks · 2012-11-15T23:28:54+00:00

I've seen less than handsome guys totally own girls. Just the other night a girl I used to date was telling me about a guy who she's completely infatuated with (and sleeping with). She said he's not handsome at all and kind of weird looking, but he's incredibly charismatic.

That said, one way to improve your looks instantly is to dress well. Doesn't mean expensive, just clothes that fit well and match your social identity. Mark Manson's Models has some good tips in that regard. Or you can just ask a girl at the clothing store for her opinion. They love talking about that shit.

Edit to add: Just remembered a friend of mine back in Chicago who's got a smoking ex-model for a wife. She's a dead ringer for Kim Basinger in all the ways that matter. He is not handsome, doesn't even dress that well, doesn't make a lot of money, and is legally blind! Loser? No, because he's also incredibly charismatic.

The first time I met him he was calling me "brother" and high-fiving me within about 5 seconds. He's the kind of guy who can walk into a bar alone and have everyone buying him drinks before long. He jokes about his blindness all the time.

He's also the kind of guy who gets into arguments with strangers on the bus. Hilarious to hang out with.

dking168 · 2012-11-16T01:50:17+00:00

If roommate #2 got the same social skills + confidence as roommate #1, there would be no contest and roommate #2 would be slamming his penis into a different girl's vagina everyday that would make roommate #1 weep.

chemfreak87 · 2012-11-15T22:36:28+00:00

How? Because he was a leader, and people followed him.

This. Being a leader is everything. Lead your social group. Lead the interaction with women you meet. Lead them into your bedroom. Done.

currensy-spitta · 2012-11-16T01:48:57+00:00

Look.....just because you have an isolated incident of a chubby confident dude getting women you're utterly delusional if you think "looks don't matter". Yes they fucking do.

adviceneed · 2012-11-15T23:59:49+00:00

I'm %100 sure roommate #1 would be even more successful if he looked like roommate #2

pickup_sticks · 2012-11-16T01:15:57+00:00

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wolfravenwylt · 2012-11-16T01:50:00+00:00

As far as I understand it, looks are really only important by looks. Your example was extreme, and roommate #1 sounds like a buddy of mine from school. Seriously, with loads of personality, confidence, and a sense of humor, anybody in hearing range is already focusing on R1 instead of the big guy. If you haven't seen this phenomena yourself, you need to people-watch more, because seriously. Went to a bar a few months ago with the guy I know that's nearly the same as your example, place was packed. Until my friend ran out of stuff to say (loudly, and funny. I need to get him to do YT comedy videos) he was drawing literally HALF the attention in the place. Looks aren't necessarily a deal-breaker, personality usually is, which includes confidence.

TAOofSTEVE · 2012-11-16T14:49:58+00:00

False. Give the 6'2 guy the same level of confidence as the 5'9 guy and I can guarantee he will be pulling hotter girls and on a more consistent basis.

MARSpu · 2012-11-16T01:08:55+00:00

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5yy · 2012-11-16T01:09:38+00:00

I'd say looks do matter, up to a point. I read somewhere

if given the option a girl will pass up a guy that looks great for a guy that makes them feel great

destinys_parent · 2012-11-16T01:47:09+00:00

Charisma charisma charisma. You couldn't be more right.

Bludhavener · 2012-11-16T08:27:47+00:00

I'm short, chubby, and consider myself unattractive. I talk to people well. I sell things regularly and my friends look to me to open people up. But when it comes to women, I have no confidence. I don't feel confident that I'm attractive and thus I don't portray attractiveness.

I've been working out a lot. My confidence is coming, but not fully here. You say looks don't matter and that's partially true. I think looks impact people differently and I pray that one day I will overcome the negative impacts that I allowed my looks to impose on me. I know it's my own mindset and I blame no one else but everyday is a challenge to find my attractiveness so I can display it.

technohubz · 2012-11-16T13:52:08+00:00

I met a guy at university who was very over average of being fat and study Computer Science. However, he was a guy who you wanted to have a conversation with and very confident. Anyway, his girlfriend was stunning. Another guy I knew was fat but was the rugby captain for our university's team, and had a stunning/sexy girlfriend. Don't know if it was the captain status or the amount of drinking he did. Oh well! Sucks to be a pretty guy with no personality.

Anneji · 2012-11-16T15:22:24+00:00

Fantastic. I was born with good looks, but without confidence.

Hooray for depressing posts making me depressed! Have an upvote! No, fuck it, have two!

LightVader · 2012-11-15T23:24:46+00:00

No matter how many post there are saying "looks don't matter", it won't change a thing. Looks matter for women, unless you're rich and blah blah you know the rest.

ARealSocialIdiot · 2012-11-15T22:38:52+00:00

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mbelmont · 2012-11-16T00:16:48+00:00

Those of you who think that looks don't matter at all are completely delusional. "Master pickup artists" will tell you that you can get laid no matter how ugly you are because they want you to buy their shit, sign up for their webinar, etc. The reality is that appearance helps you get your foot in the door, so to speak.... it's a lot easier to approach a woman and spark her interest if you look like Ryan Reynolds than if you look Danny DeVito. After that initial stage, personality takes over and your looks become less important. Also a lot of people don't realize this but there is a phenomenon called "lookism" that is similar to racism or sexism: prejudice resulting from a person's appearance. Numerous research studies have proven that good-looking people are happier, earn more money, have more sex, have lower divorce rates, have more friends, and are even less likely to be found guilty in court. LOOKS MATTER.

momosauky · 2012-11-16T01:11:20+00:00

I am in the mindset that looks do not matter as much as people tend to believe, but they do help. Also do not be fat.

lechienbizarre · 2012-11-16T01:32:52+00:00

Outliers, there are always exception to the rule. We have to be realist and admit we live in a shallow world, but also keep our confidence up. It might be harder for you to pickup a girl on a bar not being attractive, but you can get luckier depending on the settings (like in college for example, in case you live on campus.) It also has to do with the girl. Some attractive and Smart girls are looking more for someone smart as them, while attractive but not so smart girls tend to focus more on looks.

coleosis1414 · 2012-11-16T01:43:32+00:00

I'm about 25 pounds overweight and I don't do too bad for myself either. Confidence really does attract the opposite sex like crazy.

MockingDead · 2012-11-16T04:10:52+00:00

Was I roommate number 1? Lol I kid. I am not quite that confident.

isecretlyjudgeyou · 2012-11-16T06:20:43+00:00

False. Ugly guys are not smanging 10s unless they have $$. Period.

sheeeabutter · 2012-11-16T06:43:21+00:00

I am short (5-7), bald (hairline receded) so I shaved my head. And I find it extremely difficult to pull girls. I am very charismatic, have followed the guidelines and advice from this subreddit, and books, etc.

I am good looking apart from the two obvious setbacks. But at times, amidst the charisma, it is really difficult to remain motivated to push for women in the settings that I have attempted to find them. I believe the fact that I am in college only magnifies the issue. As not many girls are attracted to the short guy with the shaved head.

It's just sometimes disheartening. Looks aren't as much as an excuse as it is just something that is not too normal in the setting I am in.

Link_GR · 2012-11-16T12:53:45+00:00

Looks will get you through the door but charisma will get you to the bedroom

frasier_crane · 2012-11-16T17:09:05+00:00

Does the look matter? It does. Is it essential to get a woman/man? No. One can be ugly, and the uglier you are, the more you will have to try other people to look at where you want them to look. If you are ugly but you dress well, you're nice, brave and charismatic, you will get women. Problem is, confidence is essential, more than look, but most of the time it depends on the look. A fat, ugly person will not normally have a good self-confidence, and that will destroy his chances.

brbrowning · 2012-11-16T00:06:16+00:00

There are three levels of appearance: GROUP 1: 10% of guys are so good-looking that they don't need any other "game" to speak of, they can rely on looks to get laid and women will actively approach them.
GROUP 2: 80% of guys are "adequate," whereby their looks are neither an advantage nor disadvantage, meaning they must work on their game to have success but their looks won't hamper their ability to get laid.
GROUP 3: 10% of guys are fugly, and will almost certainly be at a major disadvantage as a result of their appearance, so they may not be able to succeed often even if they're confident, wealthy, and have an airtight 'game'.

destinys_parent · 2012-11-16T01:56:57+00:00

Every once in a while I come across a post on reddit that I save because it is so insightful. This has been saved.

2012-11-16T11:54:22+00:00

Step 1: Be good looking. Step 2: Fuck.

suckMEdry · 2012-11-16T01:17:54+00:00

Looks don't matter? Only ugly people say that.

ME_LUV_U_LONG_TYM · 2012-11-15T23:53:09+00:00

I myself realized this a little while ago. My friend from middle school, now ~20, not particularly good looking was with a beautiful girl and then I knew that it wasn't his looks that got him the girl, but it was his confidence from middle school and his romantic nature I guess. But I lack those features even though I consider myself a little above average in looks; I just can't seem to talk to any girl and get attention from her, which makes me not talk to another girl for days. I feel like I got rejected 100 times without even proposing to any of the few girls I've liked in the past and present.

dandsed · 2012-11-16T01:33:20+00:00

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OttawaSeddit · 2012-11-16T02:17:32+00:00

Interesting post, but I would argue with your main point.

Yes, I will admit--charisma is important. But looks can be JUST as important. You can be the most friendliest guy in the world, talkative and fun to be around. But if you have a bad odor, a greasy haircut or a untrimmed beard...it really can make a difference to the selective choice of women.

Maybe this roommate#1 of yours had so much charismatic swag that women just went along for the ride. Yes, you can be a clean-cut buffed out dude. But that doesn't make a difference if you're duller than a doorknob. The best equation, I find, is to have BOTH charisma and hygiene/physique. Be a leader, and take care of how you look.

In the end, it's important to realize that all women want something different.

2012-11-16T03:03:03+00:00

Looks definitely matter. They give you a leg up on the competition. But consider being handsome a head start, in the same way height makes playing basketball easier. The fact that a guy isn't short doesn't mean he can't be a good basketball player. If he busts his ass practicing and learning everything about the game, there's nothing that prevents him from eventually become a better basketball player than a tall guy who hasn't put in the work. Look at Muggsy Bogues, a former professional player who stands a towering 5'3". I have more than a foot on Muggsy Bogues, but I can't play basketball worth a damn. If we play one-on-one, guess who's going to win.

On the other hand, if you put two guys of equal skill but different height, the taller guy will win the game because he has the advantage.

When it comes to pickup, being handsome and fit is a big advantage. It means you can not work as hard on your skills and girls will tend to be more receptive to you and cut you more slack if you fuck up. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be more successful than another guy with a more polished game.

narett · 2012-11-16T03:21:13+00:00

Lmao. Right.

kingcal · 2012-11-16T05:09:04+00:00

The danger with this post is that it lulls men into a state of placation. "Oh, I don't have to improve how I look, I can just be super confidence and charismatic and roll in pussy!" Well, being confident means feeling good about yourself, and that can mean putting in the time and effort to change your outward appearance for the better. Using "confidence" as an excuse not to put in the work to change yourself for the better is a big problem a lot of people can get trapped in.

thejelloserver · 2012-11-16T05:20:46+00:00

but i got a dirty italian/pedo 'stach because of Movember! Any suggestions on how I can swing that into my favor?

2012-11-16T05:55:12+00:00

I'm a decent looking guy, but I'm really thin, and I lack conversational talent. I can carry on a convo, but not to the level of OPs friend. I kinda hate this scenario, because of the two attributes, it would seem that looks are infinitely easier to improve. That said, Im working on both, and seeing improvements in all areas.

RaiausderDose · 2012-11-16T08:58:41+00:00

ahhh this thread again...

2012-11-16T09:47:16+00:00

Meh. Know it already. I've tried, I really have. At this point my personality is just my personality. 'Confidence' is just not coming to me and I can't see much of it yet.

I chuckle when I read that I'm essentially "a pussy" for not doing well with girls and that I'm a wimp for being extremely shy and frustrated around them, yet I do motorcross, snowboarding and climbing and I'm considering to try out parachute. But yeah I'm a total wuss.

atheistjubu · 2012-11-16T14:13:18+00:00

Looks matter, but it's more like no matter what you look like, there will be women that find you attractive if you aren't dousing yourself in desperation. Women have remarkably diverse tastes.

DL34 · 2012-11-16T15:56:41+00:00

"Looks don't matter" is a soft myth that exists since the dawn of PUA. It's a myth in the sense that it's not entirely* true. Life isn't all white or all black like that.

The facts are that you can be extremely successful with women despite being conventionnaly ugly. Just because this is true does not mean that looks don't matter.

In my experience, and I went from someone who was average to good looking, looks do matter, especially if you don't have much confidence. And I'm willing to bet that most men would become more confident and more successful if their looks improved. That being said, objectively looks aren't THAT importnat, and really aren't an aspect of your person that you should be working on the most. Work on becoming more confident first and foremost.

GochuGopikachu · 2012-11-17T01:05:34+00:00

I hold stong values and i think of myself, my personality, my style, and how attractive i am all as my own work of art.

throwaway88198829 · 2012-11-17T18:52:51+00:00

Looks do matter. Girls might fuck a charismatic unattractive guy, but you very rarely ever see them pair up with a mate significantly uglier than they are in comparison.

2012-11-16T00:55:35+00:00

Another looks don't matter thread??

Problems with this whole silly argument...:

Looks matter to women, arguably more than looks matter of men because men can like anything provided the girl is physically fit. A woman will not give a fuck how confident, caring, and ambitious you are if she doesn't want to see you naked...
Most of the time men say "looks don't matter", they qualify the statement with "...as long as you have a good job, dress well, have nice hair, smell nice, are charismatic, are a leader, have a good social circle, " and a myriad of other qualifiers someone who is physically unattractive is unlikely to have, or realistically attain, thereby invalidating their own argument.
Men are horrible at judging the attractiveness of other men, in general. Some guy on /r/askwomen was saying Kanye West was a physically unattractive men yesterday...This is why so many people have "My friend is ugly and still get's girls brah!!" No...chances are you just think he's ugly because you both have penis' and you're not gay...
Until a guy, who is guy #1 without a gifted talent for irrational confidence, or linguistic excellence or any other rare social talent, is capable of the same things, there is no reason to believe looks don't matter. Science...

This stuff comes up all the time and it's the silliest shit. "Looks don't matter" is intended as motivation for noobs; it's not an accurate portrayal of reality. This shit is social Darwinism. Some people are just fucked.

adviceneed · 2012-11-16T00:06:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

teh_booth_gawd · 2012-11-16T01:46:15+00:00

Hypothetical: The fattest slob in the world is also the funniest, most confident motherfucker in the world; he's not getting laid.

/thread

TheMightyImprov · 2012-11-16T07:30:35+00:00

OP: Hey guys, your looks aren't the end-all, be-all. You can seize the reins of your own gaming destiny with the right amount of charisma.

ForeverAlones: NO WE CAN'T SHUT UP

G8torDontPlay · 2012-11-16T00:36:17+00:00

I can confirm. I've seen loser idiots get hot chicks. I've seen huge (body weight) people get good looking girls. Once you get older and out of high school there isn't such a emphasis on looks. Good luck y'all!

Pr43torian · 2012-11-16T02:50:29+00:00

nice try fat guy

adviceneed · 2012-11-16T02:33:23+00:00

I'm just going to say that lots of the people who say "looks matters!1!!!" are generally the lurkers who dabble in the PUA community. They're the guys who don't actually go out and get consistent success. It's like, these threads get so much attention from the people who don't even get laid, let alone practice PUA material.

That being said, feel free to believe that looks matters that much. If you SO vehemently believe that looks matters to a point where that's your excuse for limiting yourself, fine. Go for it. Less competition for me.

Seeing people care about such a trivial thing bothers the fuck out of me.

helalo · 2012-11-16T06:10:13+00:00

didnt read all of what you said, i hate to break the ice (actually i dont) but attractive people will get laid more, personality is a bonus. first thing people see in a person is there face,body etc. when i was single, i look at a girl and i observe her physically before i decide if i will make a move. i cant put my penis in her personality.

when its more than seduction, and im speaking on long-term relationship, if your personality doesnt match your partner personality, your gonna have a bad time. attractiveness was already established in short term, your personality will blossom in the long run.

dont be ugly. or at least smell and dress good.

ARealSocialIdiot · 2012-11-15T22:31:38+00:00

Until I see that in person I dont buy it

TheChosenOne570 · 2012-11-16T02:19:30+00:00

Listening to guys talk about "looks don't matter" is usually like listening to Romney on how it is to be poor.

Seriously, how many guys in here would fuck an ugly chick? Not if they are as vain as me. Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect the opposite sex to act in the same manner? And, I'm an ugly dude. And, I refuse to fuck ugly girls. It is a million times harder for me than it is for good-looking men. Fuck, I've watched girls just come over to us (in a restaurant, not even a bar or club!) and tell my buddy "here's my number, you are hot." I need to put my self in ideal situations, tell them how interesting their flower/butterfly tattoo is, hope they share my sense of humor, and show them how successful I am before I get to stick my dick in them. Hell, I even fucked one girl twice before she would give me her number. Everyone has an ego and if you don't look good on their arm, you are starting off at a serious disadvantage. You can keep talking the "looks don't matter" game, but the only people that guy it are other good-looking dudes and delusional uglies.

DrDeath666 · 2012-11-16T00:28:52+00:00

I bet friend #1 had a big dick.

TheImperialBastard · 2021-11-28T15:33:22+00:00

tales from the basement

Title	Looks Don't Matter
Author	TAOofSTEVE
Upvotes	263
Comments	298
Date	November 15, 2012 9:54 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/139gfn/looks_dont_matter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/looks-dont-matter.1342803 https://theredarchive.com/post/1342803

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