Men struggle because they don't know the difference between attractive and sexually attractive

NockerJoe · 2021-09-16T15:47:19+00:00

Men are very clearly aware of this. Those conversations have been pretty prominent for like 15 years. Basically the only places that thing otherwise are a few holdouts desperately trying to explain away the ugly reality of why things are the way they are.

Any dude who hops on an app will see the difference between them and a top dude. A random newbie will be browsing reddit for maybe 10 minutes before such a thread comes up(either openly or some people in denial who are eventually shut down). All you have to do is listen to women talk about which celebrities are hot and odds are it'll be either an overly made up dude or a jacked muscle guy if not a guy with both.

The flip side to this is the most common alternate explanation to looks is money. Most mainstream media has cottoned on that there's an issue by now and have tied a lack of sex and relationships to men not making as much as they used to. But this just makes it obvious men are valued as workhorses first and everything else second in that dynamic and I'd hesitate to call that love of any kind.

The problem is that even with overwhelming evidence people are still trying to peddle this weird advice that women don't care and sending mixed messages about what does and doesn't work, and a lot of older people get really fucking patronizing about it.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-09-16T22:19:52+00:00

Being nice is not attractive, it's comforting. And neutral. Intentionally acting nice to a woman as a stranger is a good thing to do morally, on its own, but it's not really conducive to attraction because it's expected behavior and renders you invisible, so to speak. Just like people usually don't bother to leave product or business reviews for "expected" service, but you can bet if they're wronged in some way they'll be vocal about it.

On other other hand acting in a "subversive" or "rebellious" way and testing the waters brings you attention, which is necessary for attraction; whether you can then parlay that attention into something positive rather than negative depends on how socially calibrated you are and whether you can compensate with looks or sense of humor.

reconfinement_acc · 2021-09-16T15:43:08+00:00

"What turns them on" aka height, superior bone structure, muscles, eyes, lips nose etc. Money and status help.

LePengwino · 2021-09-16T16:19:28+00:00

Some men struggle because they got caught in absurd crossroads of strange real life circumstances and vague-yet-strongly-asserted rhetoric from media/online/elsewhere on the search for an "in"; into a relationship where they are both. The romantic/platonic attraction might be more important than the other, because you spend most of your time in that manner, not the other.

Maybe the thing all along was the most boring answer: proximity. Not OLD though, because OLD doesn't take in ALL the senses: only sight. But if you're like me and are a neurotic mess, even proximity won't save you, lol.

IOportA · 2021-09-16T18:32:22+00:00

One is money, one is masculinity.

it's not that complicated.

Pilling_it · 2021-09-16T16:39:51+00:00

Attractiveness and sexual attractiveness is two different things. For men those concepts are the same, for women they are separate.

Imo they're plenty aware of that as soon as they realize one dude get a shitton and another none for a reason. Not the same as in physically, but there's the dichotomy of finding a slut sexually attractive but not attractive (for a relationship) so it's not hard to imagine.

This is why men don't instantly get it.

It does take a while to realize men and women work differently on the usual, yeah.

Masculinity and as a result "toxic masculinity" is sexually attractive but may not be attractive.

Toxic masculinity is a concept to shove anything disliked in at discretion and convenience to shame, so it has pretty much lost it's meaning. Also it might be, so what? They're going for the sexually attractive one.

For example being nice is attractive but doesn't really turn on women by itself.

I mean, nice guy is a meme for a reason.

If that was the case then every man would be extra nice.

You'll still find plenty doing that out there.

However representations of strength turn a lot of girls on(muscles, status, emotional stability,confidence/aggression etc).

Yeah, basic red pill stuff?

Attractive traits would be things that determine long term relationships. The problem is today's women prioritize sex first.

There's a saying that if a man can casually have sex with a woman, he can get in a relationship with her. Also for a reason. But is this really a problem? I mean, on the global scale it's bad, but on the scale of individual there's way more opportunities than there has ever been.

Women think with what's downstairs through the disguise of "chemistry". This is basically AF/BB. Women always explain the BB side because in general women all want a relationship, but don't really know what truly turns them on.

Also known as the tingles? What you're not getting is that when they explain that, they want a man they already find attractive to behave like that. Except the man she's explaining this to and the one she thinks about won't be the same. Ever.

Liberal_On_Guns · 2021-09-16T16:21:13+00:00

Well, the RP community distinguishes between attraction and arousal. But yes, at least 80% of men broadly don't know the difference.

My wife recently got a snap chat from a girlfriend who went on vacation with her husband to vegas. The snap detailed how she "rubbed her face on the Chip n' Dales dancer's washboard abs."

For background, I used to work with this girl. She met her man in college, and she's fairly attractive. He's short and chubby and makes less money than her. I've heard her disparage her husband's spending habits.

Back when I worked with her, she had all but stated that very muscular bodies were gross, and seemed to imply that she was perfectly fine with her man's dad bod. Totally not shallow. She loves him for his personality and his clownish sense of humor and they game together.

Now I've always liked them both, but I've always been skeptical of their marriage's potential to last. And this recent snap all but confirmed that suspicion. Keep in mind, they're on vacation together, and she's sending her actions in snap chat to friends. It wouldn't surprise me if her man was sitting next to her, laughing along to his own cuckoldry. Guys like this are indoctrinated into believing they're lucky to have these kinds of women. But all that's happened is this: every man he knows that gets a whiff of that interaction with the dancer will lose respect for him, and while I pity the fool, many men will just mock him behind his back because he brings it on himself. And they aren't wrong.

Do you think her husband elicits that same kind of excitement at the touch of his dad bod? Do you think the interaction with the dancer was non-sexual? Don't be naive fellas. This was a stranger that she didn't know, but he had a rockin' bod and the vibe was right, and she didn't hesitate to rub her face on his abs. She didn't think twice about turning her husband into a laughing stock. Don't be this woman's husband. The only reason a man would tolerate such behavior is because of the fear that "this is the best I can ever get."

Fudstersecured · 2021-09-16T17:37:33+00:00

I think most men know the difference deep down, they just resent not being considered the latter and feel lied to about what actually works.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-09-17T02:48:03+00:00

We know the difference.

Men do not form relationships with women like they did in the past for totally different reasons. This does not mean that men are "struggling." It means men are just not trying. And men are not trying because they do not care. Why we don't care is a whole other conversation.

SylvestorTalone · 2021-09-17T04:18:04+00:00

Sexually attractive means actually attractive.

What you are terming ''attractiveness'' really just means ''utility''

NUKE_DEMOCRACY · 2021-09-17T12:30:02+00:00

the fact that AF/BB is a phrase means people are well aware of it

Enchanting_Smith · 2021-09-16T18:25:04+00:00

I like this post, admittedly I misunderstood it 9 times before I got your point, my fault.

These are my opinions, I get banned for them when I'm not trying to cause offense so disclaimer, this isn't supposed to offend. It's an opinion.

Generally speaking from my own experiences and that of a diverse surrounding of others (pretty gender balanced):

women will choose looks/status over personality, but be the first to deny it. There is a pretense this is wrong despite it being the thing everyones doing, and encouraged by the "flock", it's got a taboo air about it that ignites false risk assesment and excitment. Its dumb.

While men will take a woman regardless of situation (often, not always, and this is also subtext assumption of responsibility as if they say no they are judged and their small group of male friends are just jerks also instead of his support) and her appearance regardless of status (also men seldom complain if she chooses to look opposite of his original attraction to her after courtship as they get hit with (would you love me even if i was this)). But if a man gets a dad bod (luckily, thats increasingly popular now) hes lazy, while if she gets a mom bod shes busy and deserves love no matter what. Sounds like most Americna households esp in the midwest.

Women lower standards held by others for themselves so they can't be under much pressure while subtext implying they should still be pedastooled, many women will deny that too, my whole family did it and I have been watching and avoiding similar patterns in myself. I'd say purely opinion this is 40-60 percent true of the population.

I see men leave careers for women while women leave men for careers. Instant attraction versus slow burn appreciation for a potential mate isn't even remotely encouraged in music, films, etc so I really don't see where people are getting educated to appreciate true romance anyway - where is that encouraged? Average person gets all their personality from the types of movies and shows and music they were raised on, if we're always rapping and documenting the thrill of the hook up and singlehood freedom these "physical attraction" preferences will stay. Also women feel extremely oppressed, half by fact and truth and half by what other women want them to stay in - downneas. A woman who leaves a man is strong but a man who leaves a woman is a coward; I think those unspoken words (the true institutionalizing) also affects attraction - both genders are defensive but, as a woman, I'd say we have walls upon walls built up, often by other women, often put up to block out the wrong people. The women in question and I'd say many who perpetuate narratives, say much in seceret and do little about it in action, and that is a dangerous luxury and not in tune with the real world and not going to strengthen male and female bonds.

I do feel like men and women prioritize sex first and that's never changed. It's a problem to the degree of how we execute it but considering evolution and most life forms basic life purpose of reproduction, it's no wonder we want that. The issue is not realizing the repurcussions and taking time to differentiate the difference between human nature doing its thing and being in absolute connection unable to lose the other. Women are losing the ability to think for themselves faster than ever by having all the strangers in media and other bitter women telling them what to think and think it angrily. My female in laws and relatives constantly decide my feelings and I have to fight the herd mentality, and I've realized recently how horribly convincing a man (relative or management from my experience) can be about "this is how it should be" and how devastating it is when they talked out their ass and you believed them cause "they seemed knowledgable"; for all the people wanting intellectual connections over sex, practice your values before you spread them.

Most people don't.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-09-16T17:29:52+00:00

I think it has more two do with men not understanding the relative influence of given characteristics. The female attraction calculus is indeed more complex than the male's. Most of the characteristics that can impact overall attraction can also impact sexual attraction. But the relative weighting changes.

Moreover, while there are definitely strong patterns for women, there is a great deal of individual variability. Hope gets men to overrate just how often outlier events happen. This effect is compounded by the fact that in extreme cases, women often don't fully understand how their own attraction calculations work. There are just enough cases of men leaving the friend zone through true expressions of love and caring or women who usually like hot guys suddenly being blown away by the short, chubby super charismatic dude. Men have to understand that it is always best to be guided by the probabilities in their behavior and expectations, while allowing room for the outlier. But don't hope or plan for it.

Men also let more systemic notions of fairness and what 'should be' cloud their ability to have true empathy for women in individual interactions. It doesn't really matter if women's standards or options have been overly inflated by society. Women are as much victims of culture as anyone else. Deprogramming oneself is very tough and never happens overnight. So when you meet a girl, her options and standards and beliefs are what they are. If you were in her situation, you would likely do the same. Don't expect that because you are a 6 and she is a 6 she should be into you. Don't get angry when she isn't; at least not angry with her. If a guy's phones were full of 8s trying to fuck them, they would never look twice at a 6 regardless of what the guy himself 'brought to the table'.

wtknight · 2021-09-16T16:42:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

banalchenal · 2021-09-16T20:47:33+00:00

Men equate attraction directly with looks because that's how they experience attraction to women.

They don't realise that for women there are other factors that make up attraction (masculinity, skill, confidence, social status) so they don't believe us when we say a guy with average looks can be wildly sexually attractive. It's just male solipsism.

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justgirliethingies · 2021-09-16T22:36:51+00:00

I mean, there are all kinds of attraction. Attraction is whatever draws you to a person.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-09-16T17:34:25+00:00

Attractiveness that is separate from sexual attractiveness makes no sense. You don't talk about a person like they're an piece of art or an object that you're judging the aesthetics of. You're either sexually attracted to them or you're not. Men don't view the world from a fictional point of view where everyone is basically a character from some story.

heyitsjeape · 2021-09-16T17:19:12+00:00

I struggle because females don’t like me.

bleb_ploleman · 2021-09-16T18:09:59+00:00

Why do you think women don’t know what turns them on? We know this. Men don’t and then whine about how they were told if they’re nice they’ll get girls lol.

ReindeerKitchen872 · 2021-09-16T16:08:45+00:00

I struggle to understand any of this red pill stuff. I've never cared about how attractive I am to anyone. I just do me. I've never been rich, muscular or anything special, when in socialsituationsI'm a introvert.

I have however always been independent, lived in my own place, had a car and socialised whenever I could, at times I was skint.

I'm 28 and happily married.

Most women want a man who can look after himself and is at least trying to go places and tries to better themselves.

Not some fuckboy who spends his life on the Internet complaining about how hard his life is. Taking about women as objects. Not being accountable for how shit their life is without doing anything about it.

This mentality is a self fulfilling prophesy. Women and guys can read it all over you without you even saying nothing to them.

If you think you can't get a girl because of everyone else chances are you are the problem not everyone else.

One personality traits are positive. Being independent, open and available. Some traits are sexy, confidence, self assurance and self control.

Keep growing and bettering yourself and people will come to you.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-09-16T19:45:16+00:00

If you are a man, not a wimp, and not too fat then you are sexually attractive to women who are attracted to men.

If a woman doesn't find average men sexually attractive then that's a problem with her.

CloudBerryPunch · 2021-09-16T16:06:25+00:00

Why is it wrong for women to think with their "downstairs?" No one wants to be with someone they don't want to fuck.

SaBahRub · 2021-09-16T16:26:05+00:00

Not our fault you personally can’t conceive of adults who know what they want, which comprise most of the human population

Naus1987 · 2021-09-16T20:09:20+00:00

As an asexual guy, I know exactly the difference between these two, hehe.

rosephase · 2021-09-16T16:06:57+00:00

Right. "women" as a whole have no idea what turns them on. Half the population of the planet divided down gendered lines has no clue what compels them sexually or romantically.

Chemistry is mutual sexual attraction. It's not about dick size or shape.

things that turn me on: chunky guys who can talk deeply about philosophy. Goofy guys who aren't scared to look silly. Guys who are engaged in their worlds. And guys who smell like everything I want to rub myself on.

"toxic masculinity" is not sexually attractive to me, or to any women who have healthy attachment styles. Being a big scary jerk attracts people who had rough unstable childhoods and are actively screwed up around attachment.

jbo99 · 2021-09-16T16:51:47+00:00

Yep exactly true

Equal-Programmer-371 · 2021-09-16T22:05:16+00:00

I would like to agree with you, but finding any child attractive immediately means I'm sexually attracted to them according to women?

BillyWrightGAC · 2021-09-17T07:58:58+00:00

Loads of men fail to realise just how central chemistry is - you can have 95kg of personality and a chiselled, lantern sense-of-humour, but if there is no chemistry, she's staying dry.

BabyOutrageous468 · 2021-09-17T12:38:41+00:00

Agreed

Brae_Andrews · 2021-09-17T13:57:20+00:00

No they are not! Yes we do know the difference!

S0mnariumx · 2021-09-17T16:06:19+00:00

So would an asexual man like myself opt to just make himself attractive? I don't care about sex

spinsterchachkies · 2021-09-18T08:41:00+00:00

Women know what turns us on. We just don’t want to offend you. Most men are never going to be sexually attractive to us so we just say what is nice and hope they find someone that is sexually attractive to someone else

Title	Men struggle because they don't know the difference between attractive and sexually attractive
Author	YtBlue
Upvotes	59
Comments	288
Date	September 16, 2021 3:35 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ppfnau/men_struggle_because_they_dont_know_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-struggle-because-they-dont-know-the-difference.1070121 https://theredarchive.com/post/1070121

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