Q4M: So...tell me about this dancing monkey.

Joey_Lopez · 2020-01-21T03:54:10+00:00

It's where we always have to do all the work to entertain a female. We are the ones that always have to be interesting. We are the ones that always have to make them laugh. We have to always be the one trying to get and hold their attention.

While they really don't have to do any of that. All they really have to do is just not be a bitch. It really feels so unfair.

I seen females on FDS post texts where they just say "ok" or just one or two words. Then they actually have the nerve to call the man boring when he is really the only one saying anything interesting.

I remember that with my ex GF I used to spend so much time looking through old comedy to find jokes to steal and I used to plan out entire conversations. So I could be interesting and not boring. I remember how torturous it was to constantly try to have the right body language. Maybe I shouldn't be too upset now because that was what the PUA's told me to get her and it worked.

It's one of the reasons I eventually dumped her because I got tired of doing all the work. It felt so much better with my girl now that when I met her It wasn't just me trying to impress her but she was actually interested without me having to do all that and play the "dancing monkey".

ThouWontThrowaway · 2020-01-21T03:50:11+00:00

[deleted]

Barely-moral · 2020-01-21T03:55:24+00:00

Taken from another thread that was asking what are men doing to get a partner.

Way before the dating phase even begins:

-Learn/practice social skills. (No, this does not come with just living)

-Learn how to dress

-Get fit enough to be dateable.

-Get enough money and status to even have a chance.

*Last two points can be harder or easier depending on the kind of woman you want to attract

-Create the adecuate mask and become comfortable wearing it. There are a lot of parts of yourself that are not helping, the mask should cover every single one of those.

-Get to the right market where to sell yourself and whatever you bring to the table.

Now about dating.

-Risk of rejection when asking out.

-Dress up.

-Taking the lead (Applying the social skills and mask mentioned above)

-Planning/Improvising (Or if you don't like to plan, then add "learn how to improvise" to the first list)

-Organize schedule to fit the date.

-Get her interested/entertained and keep it that way for as long as the date lasts. Do the same during every single interaction.

-Be judged.

Since you are probably dating multiple woman just to finally get a date that works you can multiply that list for the number of dates you are having.

Final point and this continues pretty much forever:

-Keep frame, keep wearing your mask, keep your status high and your bank account full. Stop being yourself, be whatever works for the situation.

Unless you were born attractive, people like that exist.

I think all that qualifies as being a dancing monkey. If you change in order to be attractive, then you are a dancing monkey. It is on you to decide if it is worth it or not.

tritter211 · 2020-01-21T04:09:34+00:00

Dancing monkey is just a pejorative for a man catering to women who basically demand an entertainment act in front of them for the privilege of getting their face to face attention.

Dancing monkey basically means women demanding humiliating levels of effort from men to please them but they offer nothing in return because they know they have enough men lined up to choose from.

The end result is it becomes too energy draining for many men to pursue dating itself. Imagine being put infront of a situation where a woman rejects you for the flimsiest of the fiimsy reasons and think she's in the right.

The biggest complaints I hear from guys is that the so called "dating" in modern society is too demanding and tiresome to deal with and women are one upping each other with their demands to the point that we are basically erasing the concept of "dating" itself and replacing it with hookups, STR's and FWB's.

barbodelli · 2020-01-21T03:40:56+00:00

I think what they mean is that guys need to be

1) Socially capable

2) Charming

3) Funny

4) Confident

5) Talented

6) Interesting

7) Outgoing

8) Have a good job

etc etc etc

where's women pretty much just have to be good looking.

Also I think they are referring to the man having to make the approach. Women approach sometimes. But more often then not if you can't read IOI's or are too scared to act on them. As a man you'll end up with very few options (which usually won't be good options).

That would be my guess.

thedeadpill · 2020-01-21T05:18:17+00:00

It's that joke about guys have to follow the three-six rule: six feet tall, six figure salary, six pack abs.

But, among men, there's no equivalent joke for women. Women just have to show up.

Others have put it better, but, we have to be our best to even have a shot at any female company. If you browse /r/tinder for any length of time, you'll come across guys who wonder if the app is broken because they never get any matches.

Brass tacks, a monkey dances the following moves:

Have a good to great career and wealth to show for it.
Be fit, put in the hours at the gym.
Be extroverted, have confidence, don't fuck it up; despite being a relatively good looking man with plenty of action on dating apps or in real life, I haven't been asked out in earnest for 15 years. Men nearly always initiate.

Realistically, it's the last one that's the most onerous. I know plenty of men who are going to die alone because they are not life-of-the-party guys. They're wallflowers, and if you're not in people's faces, you're getting ignored. That's performative.

mechanical_elves · 2020-01-21T04:10:35+00:00

Anything you would never do otherwise, that you do "because women". That's being a dancing monkey. A monkey would never get up and start dancing, unless his master had trained him to perform for "treats".

webernicke · 2020-01-21T08:42:07+00:00

Part of it is the fact that women select for a certain type of personality (most common is probably charismatic, masculine extroverts with a touch of dark triad) Which means that if you aren't that, interacting with women is always going to be about putting on a performance and wearing a mask, unless you're lucky enough to be extremely handsome (sometimes even then.)

It's kind of an interesting subversion of how women often complain about unrealistic beauty standards. When you think about it, is it more difficult to change the way you look or who you are as a person? Trick question. Men often have to do both.

ohheyhi99 · 2020-01-21T04:11:18+00:00

(This is from a comment I made on another OP)

I think the point they’re making is that men are more likely than women to pay a penalty if they’re not entertaining.

Men who are naturally extroverted, leaders, or inclined toward interests that most women find entertaining have nothing to worry about. Men who tend to be more reserved, more passive, and less active are more easily brushed off than their female counterparts if they don’t change or at least project something else.

One example is the way men are expected to be sexually dominant and experienced to an extent that women rarely are. A man who prefers to be submissive or passive will have a harder time than a woman would.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-01-21T15:48:59+00:00

Men often have to act unlike how they normally would act in order to get the attention of, or to attract a woman. For example, if some men aren’t naturally funny or not outwardly expressive to the tune of being extroverted (“the life of the party”), then guess what? They’re not going to be as successful with women.

To give a better example, in ye olde medieval times, kings often appointed a jester in their court to entertain them, whether it be telling jokes, juggling and other acrobatics, or otherwise making a fool of themselves. If the jester was not entertaining, the king would have him executed.

It’s pretty much the same for men and women. If men aren’t entertaining or “worth having around,” they won’t be around, so men have to perform if they want to stay alive in the dating world, so to speak.

reluctantly_red · 2020-01-21T04:07:50+00:00

It's about always having to keep the woman entertained and always having to prove your worth. It can be exhausting.

Luckily if she actually thinks you're hot none of this is required. Yet another reason to go to the gym.

NockerJoe · 2020-01-21T04:14:17+00:00

Every date I go on, I've had to drive conversation at least a good 80% of the encounter. Outside of maybe like twice it's always me who initiates and escalates from the phone number to the bedroom. My career is usually the better one and is much more subject to cross-examination. As a dude if you go on a lot of first dates it's easy to default to a few witty stories that make you look good and a few questions that usually go over well and things get super samey.

It's easy to feel like you're some kind of clown doing a routine for a bored audience. But typing it out like this I think it's probably worse. When you get on an actual stage getting a good reaction is actually easier. That's why a lot of unsuccessful men will sign up for an open mic night and make jokes about their problems and bring the house down. Or else they'll get a gig with their band and their skills speak for themselves. When you're out with a woman you don't have good lighting or an opening act and all the alcohol comes out of your pocket and that makes the barriers way higher.

darksoldierk · 2020-01-21T03:56:35+00:00

I think this guy describes it well. starts at 2:45. And if you think about what he's saying, his skit perfectly describes the "dancing monkey" hyperbole.

joesmithasdf · 2020-01-21T05:49:08+00:00

I suppose there are two tiers of clowning, life is different for haves and havenots.

Some shit everyone has to deal with, if not for casual, for sure when women look for LTR:

Shit tests as described by trp. They do it even when they’re up to jump on your cock a couple hours later. Neurotic or whiny = no deal.

They prefer men leading the whole fucking time, at least at the early stages. That’s probably why trp call them children.

Now, some monkey dancing I hear about but I refuse to play along, none of these happen if they find the guy hot:

Being grilled like it’s a job interview, while she provides bare replies when asked back. It includes demanding the man’s whole portfolio of social media, including personal data like linkedin. Some demand full names for background checks.

Demanding men drive or have a car even when they can’t say the same. Riding apps have lessened that somewhat in large cities.

Demanding men approach, and even then have to ask them out several times before saying yes, or pretending to have a busy schedule. Then pay for everything and also need to drive conversation forward.

When I tell guys not every woman demands all that shit from me, most of them don’t believe that’s even possible.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2020-01-21T08:35:11+00:00

My best relationships were going out to bars and dancing... because that’s what I liked to do. The smart girls understood “hey I like this so I’m gonna stick around”.

Other girls had fairytale notions about painting the town with their own glitter.

Dating is 90% hanging out and chilling. Some girls have dopamine addictions which make this impossible. Guys don’t like to be your cocaine/dopamine addiction. We wanna hang out and get to know you.

WIA20XX · 2020-01-21T12:38:56+00:00

It's pickup jargon.

The dancing monkey stays in comedian/entertainment mode because he's afraid of losing the crowd, afraid of taking the next step to actually connect with the chick.

ToraChan23 · 2020-01-21T19:27:50+00:00

"Dancing monkey" to me is doing anything to try to get a woman who doesn't like you, to like you.

A guy pulling up in a sports car with an expensive suit and a Rolex, trying to talk up some chick for a date is a dancing monkey.

I understand that women can't handle rejection and desperately need to feel wanted, thus asking men to make the first move, but men need to understand how to gauge genuine interest first before putting on a show and looking like buffoons.

You perform for yourself, as yourself, first. Then you perform for someone who deserves it.

Eastuss · 2020-01-21T08:52:41+00:00

The whole thing often feels like going in for a job interview.

The whole process is just a succession of tests and barriers meant to select you out of it. And it assumes you're highly interested despite the job will probably be shitty.

You work on your CV for a job offer that has a very long and unreasonable list of expectations, by luck it got selected. You go to a job interview, to technical tests, from people who barely care about proving you the deal is a good deal, or that the job is good. But they know you're willing and that you're on the weak side of the deal, because you're the one who asked for it.

It works exactly the same with seducing women, you're seen as the bad deal asking a favor, and therefore you go through a serie of stupid tests to determine if you're worth it or not. And at the end you'll irremediably get the same thing: a relationship in which you'll always be seen as the owing one.

It's not much the dance that's monkey like, it's the fact we're expected to dance and at the same time we're seen as the subhumans asking for the master's favors.

Workaholiconew · 2020-01-21T03:42:26+00:00

Dancing monkey is a meme. of course it has multiple definitions. Its intention is to transmit a ambiguous level of understanding of "undesirable subservient behavior, similar to a entertainment slave".

I suppose it just has to do with the fact a monkey dances for entertainment, yet is paid in bananas and is in actuality owned by someone. But I admit I know less than most, as english is not my native language.

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poppy_blu · 2020-01-21T04:19:20+00:00

[deleted]

smoke_mardeljano · 2020-01-21T06:20:55+00:00

i don't think the 'dancing monkey' is real. i believe it's a concept created by pick up artist/dating 'coaches' thats used to sell the fictional idea to their audiences that to get a girlfriend, you have to be this 'dancing monkey' (as many on the outside would call it) that hits the right notes at the right time.

women cheat on/dump men because they get bored and want something new and exciting. that's just it.

FereallyRed · 2020-01-21T15:31:43+00:00

Imma just leave this here.

MuleFool42 · 2020-01-21T17:21:05+00:00

I've not really heard the 'dancing monkey' referenced much but I'm assuming it means having to deal with a woman that has unreasonable expectations. Something like what you would find on FDS.

Persaeus · 2020-01-21T17:28:30+00:00

i'm LMAO at all these convoluted answers. the answer is simple and lies in the question - why does a monkey dance? answer - to get fed.

being a dancing monkey is doing anything in order for a woman to "feed" you - "feed" being attention, relationship, SEX.

not being a dancing monkey is ordering your life and thoughts around the things in your life that YOU can control.

dancing monkey is an allegory for a covert contract

the irony is women can sense this covert contract and it disgust them to their core.

you're referring to that you feel are unfair of women to expect from men

this made me chuckle. if you are thinking in terms of what women expect from you being "unfair" - you're a monkey in denial.

PapaPinyun · 2020-01-21T17:29:42+00:00

There was a thread last week or so, "men clowning around," and I thought it would be about how we created a norm of social behavior wherr we one up each other, talk shit, compete and act child like in men groups, so as to both bond and demonstrate virility, prowess, and wit for the ladies in earshot. Alas it was not about that but what you are asking speaks directly to it.

Nu_Guy · 2020-01-21T22:04:33+00:00

Guys who are aggressive don't need to be dancing monkeys. They naturally attract women.

If you have a bunch of insecurities (a lot of men) that is unattractive, so you have to put on a sort of show in the attraction phase.

A lot of people are salty they were not born Jason Mamoa, because his type is the only type that doesn't have to do some sort of "monkey dance".

darudeboysandstorm · 2020-01-21T22:24:34+00:00

One thing I noticed early on is women will always try and get you to hang out with their friends but have no interest in meeting yours. Eventually she wants all of your time, but cant lose time with her friends so they try and integrate you into their group while pulling you away from your friends.

IE she never wants you to hang out with your friends, not because they are bad, but because then she cant see you.

This is an act I would succumb to when I was young but no longer partake in. Obviously not all women do this but I would say half the gals ive been involved with tried this at some point or another.

Grek27 · 2020-01-22T02:16:42+00:00

Acting out of character to get a womans approval. Basically engaging in red pill behavior.

Ex: If I say I design X for a living and enjoy talking about X women shouldn't shut off "cuz it's boring".

I don't drink, smoke, dance, do drugs, stay out past 9 pm, mostly avoid driving at night and don't do dangerous things(excluding motorcycles) or engage in extreme sports. This shouldn't be viewed as a negative. It's literally the end goal.

Ballface8020 · 2020-01-22T15:44:27+00:00

PPD men often say “men shouldn’t have to be dancing monkeys to get attention from women.”

Anything beyond just existing is being a dancing monkey. Women only have to exist to get men. Chad only has to exist to get women.

There is nothing wrong with men having to be a dancing monkey to get women in and of itself. It only becomes degrading when we have to work for what Chad gets for free.

ultimatecool12 · 2020-02-10T23:13:29+00:00

Easy : I am a cool guy and does not afraid of anything. I go around giving no fucks and disregarding thots. This is who I am.

When I see weak men cathering to thots and basically acting like a completely different guy around thots I just wonder WTF is going on.

Clowning dancing around to get women VS being yourself is not worth it. I will never compromise or sell my soul for magic pussy

ontherailstoday · 2020-01-21T09:42:34+00:00

It's when the woman has the attitude of "okay, impress me." As if you're just another candidate in a long line of them, and the onus is on you to wow her.

Even though that's probably true on some level, the point of dating, romance, sex, whatever... is to form an actual human connection based on intimacy and respect.

When a woman treats you like a contestant on a reality tv show (in which she is the celebrity judge), it's disrespectful from the get go. It's placing you beneath her.

Specific examples...

Things like open shit tests. Talking about exes or slutty things she's done. "Negging" you, displays of rudeness to see how you react. Basically testing your socio-emotional competence and whether you can be thrown for a loop.

Openly remarking on small things about you she dislikes. To show that you're the judged, not the judger.

Signs of disinterest, being on her phone or whatever, to let you know there's competition.

Let me anticipate some objections:

"Those are signs she doesn't like you." If that were true, i wouldn't have banged some of these women after navigating the phase I'm describing.

"Those are just banter." No it's not. Banter is lighthearted, playful and cooperative, the stuff I'm describing is an affront to see how the male reacts.

I'm not sure to what extent this stuff is intentional, and to what extent just a result of women's bitchshield and initial egotism from being bombarded with male attention... but it happens. Not with all women, but more common among younger, immature, pretty types who are just discovering their power over the male sex, and as a result have developed a certain contempt for men generally.

Title	Q4M: So...tell me about this dancing monkey.
Author	poppy_blu
Upvotes	18
Comments	288
Date	January 21, 2020 3:32 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/erosvs/q4m_sotell_me_about_this_dancing_monkey/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-sotell-me-about-this-dancing-monkey.312772 https://theredarchive.com/post/312772

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