In an ideal society, what should men and women's gender roles/social expectations look like? If you could design your own society how would you socialize men and women differently?

ling0n · 2020-05-03T19:00:16+00:00

No gender roles. No expectations based on genitals. We're just human bodies with different genitals. Just expectations of being a kind human in general and not destroy other people, animals or the environment. Everyone can do what ever the fuck they want, whatever job, clothes, hobbies, mannerisms etc, again, as long as they don't hurt other people.

poppy_blu · 2020-05-03T17:42:24+00:00

People would do whatever they fuck they wanted to do. And those who whine about “muh gender roles!!!” as an excuse for their own failures would stay irrelevant and mocked by everyone else.

prophesizedpower · 2020-05-03T16:26:13+00:00

It comes down to women being free from all aspects of gender roles (if they want to be) whereas men must still conform to all of their traditional gender roles in order to attract mates and be successful in life. That’s it. That’s the whole problem, and it’s why so many men don’t like feminism.

You can either have traditional gender roles for both or none but it doesn’t seem like the current arrangement is sustainable.

CommanderOfTheDeath · 2020-05-03T17:12:10+00:00

In an ideal society, the laws are completely unbiased, children get thaught sexual dynamics in high school and people get hired solely on merit.

Speaker7 · 2020-05-04T02:08:22+00:00

[deleted]

XtoDoubt · 2020-05-03T17:07:54+00:00

Ideally, men and women would decide for themselves what role they want to fill. Right now, we have a society where women keep the benefits of a traditional society but have none of the responsibilities.

Jake_Chavira · 2020-05-03T17:30:15+00:00

An actual law that specifically says genders are equal. And subsequentially, it is enforced equally.

1.) Rape being always punishable by a minimum 25 years and sex offender registration

2.) False reports of rape being punishable of 2 years AND liable to be sued for defamation of character.

3.) BOTH Men and Women are eligible for the military draft.

4.) Paternity leave is available for the Father and Mother. Bonus if they are married.

5.) Speaking of marriage, cheating should be a criminal and civil offense. Offenders of adultery should be liable to get NOTHING in divorce as marriage should technically be upheld like a contract. Cheating is a breach of contract. Therefore cheaters should lose all amenities in said contract of marriage and whatever shared property/assets. Any orher reason for divorce should be a no-fault divorce in which property is liquidated and halved to each party.

6.) As per #5, kids. Custody by default should always be 50/50. Allegations of abuse should be thoroughly investigated. If the allegations prove false, then the accuser losing their custody rights.

7.) Domestic Violence regardless of gender should be thoroughly investigated. However, rule of damage remains the same. (I.E. if you get hit, DO NOT hit back, just walk away and report it. ) Offenders found guilty are punished appropiately BUT the victims shall have the ability to enact a LIFETIME restraining order AFTER conviction. If married, the victim immediately gets sole custody rights and all of the shared assets in divorce. HOWEVER, if the victim was indeed having an affair at any point during the marriage, (whether it be before, during or after the violence), then the offender an appeal for their property back.

rubbooyuri · 2020-05-03T17:05:45+00:00

I’m fine with society the way it is, except less violence would be nice

Whisper · 2020-05-03T18:44:51+00:00

My ideal society isn't designed. No single person (not even me) is smart enough to design an entire society that works at all, much less is optimal.

If I were to give advice for forming a society, it would characterized not by what to do, but by what to avoid.

cateml · 2020-05-03T21:00:43+00:00

I wouldn't change gender roles to other gender roles. I think the central problem is that we continue to socially enforce arbitrary rules of how people should think and behave based on what their genitals look like, not the rules themselves. Different rules would probably just be destructive and make people miserable in some other way.

I'd have it so people can do what they want. People can wear what they want, socialise with whoever however they want, date who they want how they want, do the jobs they're most suited to and create/appreciate art and entertainment however they want. Obviously 'socialising with/dating who you want' comes with the caveat that those people want to do that with you as well - that would be fine, you wouldn't be socially forced to say date say a person who 'didn't act feminine' if you didn't want to. Just there would be no wider social belief that was anyone's 'fault' or was 'correct/incorrect', it would be seen as purely a personal life choice of the people who wanted dates and the people who wanted to date them or not.

Basically, what most of the west has now in a technical legal sense, but also with not all subconsciously threatening people with social exclusion and negative regard for actually doing it, or making assumptions about what people are like constantly. Values and 'success' would be based on being a positive part of your community, rather than fitting into any ideal of what people should be like (or having stuff/power over others... but we're leaving the gender roles area a bit there...).

People might still take on certain types of identities and aesthetics based on what they like, and what they're romantically/sexually into or want. But doing so would be seen as a bit of fun, just part of the joy of life/a creative expression if you feel like it, rather than something you have to do to be more widely accepted. Just another part of what you're about, doesn't mean anything else about anything. Also no one would care about people changing or altering those whenever they felt like it.
People might form couples, or various sorts of families (not necessarily based on all having sexual relationships). As long as children were cared for and in an environment to develop properly, and people treated each other well, no one would care how you did it.

2020-05-04T13:56:35+00:00

I kind of like the movie Gattaca (1997) or Equals (2015). Extreme eugenics. Uniforms. It seems as genderless as you can get people just reduced to their intellect, productivity and biological function to produce the best society.

Female_urinary_maze · 2020-05-04T19:42:36+00:00

I'd get rid of the whole mess.

Fuck the prudish shaming of female sexuality. Fuck the obsessive fussing about what men and boys can wear without seeming "gay." Fuck the association of gayness with not being as masculine or feminine as your straight counterparts. Fuck the rigid gender binary that is giving nonbinary people so much strife. Fuck all the complex hoops binary trans people have to jump through to be recognized as themselves. Fuck the idea that men have to be stoic invulnerable providers. Fuck male disposability in general and the draft especially. Fuck treating women like baby machines first and people seccond, and fuck the reproductive oppression that comes with that. Fuck socializing men to be aggressive and obnoxious. Fuck socializing women to be weak willed pushovers. Fuck socially mandated shaving in all it's forms. Fuck "boys will be boys" being used to excuse violent of creepy behavior in the early stages when it can be most easily fixed. Fuck the idea that men and boys can't be abused by women.

Screw it all, I'd scrap the whole concept of gender completely. It seems to be a pretty shit deal for all involved.

Dodechaedron · 2020-05-04T10:25:13+00:00

All these discrepancies are going to be leveled but it will take generations. White men are more qualified because they could go to better schools and their parents were graduates and could drive the child by example towards better pastimes (e.g. reading books vs. slouching in front of the tv all day). Now more & more women and non "white" folks are becoming middle-class, their children will have better opportunities. It's not happening overnight ...

Bntt89 · 2020-05-04T15:02:17+00:00

I wouldn't have gender roles in my perfect society they cause more harm then good. And I wouldn't socialize them differently, I would explain troubles women face to men and explain troubles men face to women as well. I think this understanding of each other would be better for overall cohesion of society.

Neither-Patience · 2020-05-03T17:31:12+00:00

If the goal is to bring back marriage and families then traditionalism is the only thing that works. Men at work women at home so that each needs one another and they have to decide individually to fill their own role for the good of the family.

Right now neither needs the other and both are being influenced to be unattractive by getting away from masculinity and femininity for men and women, respectively. This leads to our current situation where men and women don’t want or need each other. Result: lowest marriage rate in American history, depression, suicide, destructive hedonism, mindless pleasure-seeking, distrust, excess materialism.

majani · 2020-05-03T17:11:41+00:00

Men have 95% responsability, but have 95% the rights. Women have 5% the responsibility, and 5% the rights. The ideal society.

mindsanitizer · 2020-05-03T17:11:54+00:00

If women had financial equality then relations between men & women would be equal. "Part of the problem is that jobs that have been traditionally done by women pay less than traditional male jobs. This is true “regardless of the value of the work to the employer or the consumer.” The more a job is considered ‘women’s work,’ the less it pays. Traditionally male-dominated trades deter women from entering them. To participate fully in society, individuals need a level of resources that is not too far below the norm in that community. Falling markedly behind the community average means effective exclusion from the normal life of society."

SaBahRub · 2020-05-03T17:49:43+00:00

I think our freedom to make choices and mistakes is fine and dandy. I would just make fertility a choice, not the default

softhandsam · 2020-05-03T16:28:43+00:00

My ideal society: Technology and genetic engineering make gender completely irrelevant, everyone has equal rights.

I believe that once artificial wombs and genetic engineering become a thing, women will be finally completely liberated from gender roles. The concept of gender will become completely irrelevant and people will do as they please as long as they don't cause harm

Yourstruly777 · 2020-05-04T05:28:20+00:00

We could abolish gender. Surgery and hormonal treatment from an early age and we could do away with gender differences once for all. No more whining. Next would be equal distribution of wealth.

2020-05-04T11:09:01+00:00

For me, perfect equality. This is understanding that men do better at some things, women do better than men at other things. Everyone has their natural role and thus natural order is balanced.

Equality. Not feminist equality which is female superiority.

Simple and harmonius.

2020-05-03T20:52:22+00:00

In an ideal society.... If you could design your own society how would you socialize men and women differently?

That is a very good question.

That is a very profound question.

My broad overall principle would be: equally with lots of freedom. Differently? It would be up to the individual.

Equal opportunity to do whatever they wish.

That's ideally. The "Problem" would be from

Parents
Marketers at large (Big brands)
Idiots with an audience (Famous people that are famous because they are famous)

In an ideal society, what should men and women's gender roles... look like?

As equal as possible. Except for childbearing I can't think of any plausible difference that should be up to society, Individuals can make their own choices. I'd go one step further and say that is not a role of society but it's up to the individuals.

In an ideal society, what should men and women's gender ... social expectations look like?

None. Expect for equality.

NOTE: I define equality as equal, identical, 50/50 etc...

It's clear that many of you are dissatisfied with the current state of how men and women interact with each other,

Uhmm I am not.

And .. I think that those "many people" who express their dissatisfaction and very happy to be dissatisfied. Proof, they do nothing to find any common ground with the other party, and do everything in their power to... be dissatisfied no matter what the other party does. Their behavior is in line with both the results and the logical results; hence... they must consciously want that result (they put actions in place toward that) hence they get what they want. That is the definition of satisfaction, success and happiness.

as well as themselves.

Same as above. They work hard, very hard to get the results that they are getting.

NOTE: this applied to "many people" like OP states, not 100% of people.

Gender roles crafted through various means have created social expectations for each gender to act in a certain way, leading to men and women having tendencies to interact in those ways - this is a feedback loop that just feeds into each other.

Really????? I had no idea. They way I see it is that most everyone is very confused, but they know exactly what everyone else / the world should do to accommodate them. Of course they are not willing to do anything.

So you're unhappy that currently many men have XYZ mentality and interact in XYZ way in certain aspects of life, and women have ABC mentality and interact in ABC way in certain aspects of life.

I am not unhappy with the status quo. It's not my idea, but ... the "ideal" by its own definition is not attainable, especially within this context, so.... best I can do is: Adapt.Improvise.Overcome; therefore I have Adapted.Improvised.Overcame. I am pretty satisfied with the results and continue working hard and long in improving my life; including - but not limited to - today's sushi lunch (yum!) and doing my laundry as we speak (dryer cycle going).

You think that it's detrimental that men and women are interacting with each other in those ways,

The status quo is detrimental to the very actions that contribute to the status quo the way it is.

This meme represents most people's status quo https://i.imgur.com/UUI0Ywd.png

and it would be better off if instead men interacted in this way and women interacted in that way,

??? what is "this way" and "that way"? I lost you

and if we had these social expectations for men (i.e. gender roles) and those social expectations for women.

NOPE! How about (true) equality?

Equal rights. Equal opportunities.

So can you expand on what these and those should be? Aspects of socialization could include dating, sex, friendship, mannerisms, work, arts and entertainment, etc.

Dude! You're asking for people to write a book.

Equality:

Equal rights
Equal opportunity

Dating: date whom you want, wherever you want, as you please. Consentual of course!

Sex: same as above

Friendship: same as above

Mannerisms: ugh? Wut? We have freedom and laws who restrict freedom for the greater good (the social contract). I think in the US we're good (enough)

Work, arts and entertainment, etc: Equal opportunity

Mimoxs · 2020-05-03T16:34:01+00:00

1) no purity culture - this benefits men and women

2) no family unit, children raised communally, no pressure on either gender to be actively involved with their children

3) if they must have children naturally (artificially would be ideal), enforce mandatory sterilization from birth that you must obtain permission to reverse - this heavily discourages childbirth

4) equal share of everything - housework, financial responsibility, paying on dates, etc

5) from day 1, children need to see role models and media that do not portray sexist ideas, and they need to see that individuals who do are publicly shamed by society. We raise children with misogynistic ideas from the moment they are born, this instills the ideas in most women.

Basically women will never be able to escape/never be truly free unless their previously enforced roles as mothers disappears and they are no longer instilled with self-hatred from media they consume from childhood onwards

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2020-05-03T18:37:59+00:00

I would invent a raygun with the power to painlessly delete any fetus in any unsuspecting pregnant woman.

I would use this power to take my rightful place as Overlord.

Say something stupid?

Your baby is gone bitch

kissmetilyouredrunk · 2020-05-03T16:08:16+00:00

Pre womens right to vote. Women aren't suited for the environment outside of the home

xinf3ct3d · 2020-05-03T16:38:58+00:00

Communism.

jigglypuff__0 · 2020-05-03T16:52:25+00:00

I wouldn’t change anything. Men cry about being lied to everyday but should have learned the brutal truth about human nature by middle school.

Those with common sense and social skills figured it all out it secondary school and thrived in college. Real life teaches you the patterns of life very quickly: that people are naturally selfish beings and that not everyone is going to like you, want to fuck you or want to date you.

Work on yourself and build the life you want. The people who genuinely like you will make themselves known. Personal accountability is everything and victimizing yourself at every turn will only harm you socially and psychologically. This goes for men and women.

For almost every poor social situation I’ve been in I’ve taken responsibility for my part, grown from it and learned from it.

Have you ever noticed the most perpetual victims are the ones who never take accountability?

So I wouldn’t change anything, because the truth is out there already for you to find. Plus, especially in this day in age, the truth is always adjusting and evolving.

asdf333aza · 2020-05-04T00:20:44+00:00

Someone hits you, you can hit them back.

The money you make, is your money.

Alimony is gone. If you marry someone and they bring you up to a new lifestyle. You should not keep that lifestyle that came with being married to them if you decide to leave. You go back to whatever you had before. Dust to dust. Now should you be married for a lengthy amount of time (say 7+ years), then yes assets should be split, but definitely not down the middle in any shape or form.

Children are shared 50/50 if both parents want them. Custody is not even up for debate, if both parents want them, both parents get them.

Unisex draft.

No get out of jail free cards from the military just because she got pregnant.

Females choice to have a baby is entirely her own. It will also be a man's choice if he wants to pay or be involved with they child at all. If she makes an independent decision to have a child or not have a child, the man should not be financially responsible for her independent decision. No child support unless he has agree to be the father of that child. Her body her choice. His money his choice.

Females get equal pay for sports, jobs and other forms of labor IF they are able to perform those sports, jobs and labors at the same level that the men can. If not, then they don't deserve equal pay. Same thing for men if they can't do a job, that female tend to do better. If the females WNBA players can beat the male NBA players, than they have earned that same paycheck, if not then, no. If she can build a fire wall for a company just as well as the male employee, then she definitely deserves his pay.

Proof and evidence provided for sexual assaults. Females lie, just like men lie! Humans in general lie! So if there is no tangible proof than, there should not be any punishment for it. Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In the medical field I believe they say, "if it wasn't documented it didn't happen".

Equal jail times for the same crimes. (Females currently get around 60% less jail time for the same crime. Almost as if society is easier on them)

Male and females share prisons. And don't give me any crap about male inmates assaulting female inmates. If you don't care about male inmates being violated and beaten, than you shouldn't care about female inmates getting the same. Either we help both sexes of the prison system or we ignore both sexes.

False rap3 accuser serve the sentence that the accused would have served should they be caught lying.

Society taking male rape, sexual assault and domestic abuse as serious as they take the female versions of it.

LGBTQ are treated like normal people in all aspects of society. And they are entitled to representation on TV and other forms of media too.

Feminism relabeled egalitarianism and fights for injustices against men the same way they do for women.

Females have access to birth control and abortions, if they can afford it with their own money. No one else should be required to be financially responsible for a frown adults decision. And if they can afford it, they should be given what ever birth control or clinical care they want pertaining to the subject of reproductive rights without judgement or hassling. If she want an abortion, she should be able to get one without jumping through hoops. And no she also cannot sue, should she end up regretting it later. Her body her choice.

If a drunk male and a drunk female have sex, than either they both raped each other and both suffer the same punishment or neither of them raped each other and they both go on about their ways. None of this one sided bs.

Child support should be standardized rate across income brackets and definitely should have a cap on how much can be mandated to be payed. And the money should be enough to take care of the child and nothing else aka, child support goes to the child! Not this, pay your child support so I can go out on dates and turn up at the clubs stuff. Both sexes included. Child support should not be going toward a down payment on a new Lexus.

A men shouldnt have to pay child support if he never agreed or wanted to have the kid in the first place. Having sex is not consenting to a kid, the same way going on a date is not consenting to sex. However, if he is the biological father and agrees to have the kid and signs the birth certificate, than he strapped in for 18 years (with the standardized rates I mentioned earlier based tax brackets and with a cap).

The punishments for divorce hit both sides of the relationship and not just the side making the most money. (Unless infidelity or abuse or some other circumstances are involved). If you can prove your spouse betrayed you, then you are entitled to compensation for that betrayal. And emphasis on proof.

Body acceptance movement includes males too, cause so far it's mainly only about accepting women of all shapes and sizes, but not men. For every "love a bigger women" or "real women have curves" advertisement, we demand a "short kings" or some other equal male advertisement.

Men arent entitled anything from females. Females aren't entitled anything from males.

No more whites Knights coming to defend a girl who is getting her ass beat, because she thought it was cool to put her hands on someone else. She takes a beating just like man would, if he was the one who hit someone.

Either both genders roles are enforced or none of them are enforced. Aka, he does not have to pay for your food. She does not have to make you a sandwich. He does not have to defend you. She does not have to please him sexually. He doesn't have to be stronger and good with his hands and she doesn't have to be petite and know how to cook. Either both sides have em or no one has em. None of this ONE gender being freed from their role, while another still has to confirm to theirs.

Welfare, food stamps and homeless or domestic abuse shelters become just as accessible to men as they are to women.

Men and women have to right to divorce their spouse without consequences, should it come up that said spouse hid something in their past. Say a man has a history of beating women or is a sex offender and never disclosed it. Or say a women was a former pornstar or had a crazy college experience with videos of her floating around and never disclosed it. Those are grounds for divorce should you find out and you should not be punished for the lies of the other spouse.

Women are expected to and allowed to ask men out the same way men are expected to and allowed to ask women out. Rejection is shared through the genders.

Sexual jokes and work place harassments that females commit are treated the same way the male ones are. Aka, no hands on the shoulder, or hugging or touching the male employees hands when you want something from them. "Innocent flirting" is treated the same way "innocent jokes" are.

Females statutory raping males is treated the same as if it was a male statutory raping a female.

Comanies have the right to fire you should your outside activities interfere with the work environment or disagrees with their mission and goal. Aka, you're a teacher by day and they discover your onlyfans. Or say you're a male employee for security company and they find pictures of you online as a male stripper. It is up to business to determine if they keep you or not. What you do on your free time is your free time, but businesses shekuldny have to be forced to associate with you.

No more fucking tax breaks for married couples!!! Single people shouldn't get less or pay more because they're single.

Paternity test become standard for all newborn screenings. And should it come to light that a male is the victim of paternity fraud, he should be entitled to compensation and payback for the money he spent taking care of a child that wasn't his.

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analt223 · 2020-05-03T17:45:07+00:00

Gender roles are good. Nobody is for ending them. People SAY they are, but the dating/marriage/casual sex trends ALL say otherwise.

Zippo-Cat · 2020-05-04T03:42:50+00:00

An ideal society would be one of tall big tiddied futanaris.

Or Chakats(Google it. Or better yet, don't)

Don't even attempt at making "perfect societes" as long as you have two different genders.

Boss123456789a · 2020-05-03T20:30:34+00:00

I would believe a return to a more traditional society, which is also paired with a society that lays great emphasis on physical as well as mental achievements and as the last point all of this should be linked with a strong love for ones own home and country.

DeepCrimsonPill · 2020-05-03T20:09:22+00:00

Low quality people will be paid a stipend to not have kids/get sterilized. High quality people will be paid a stipend to have as many kids as possible. Middle/High quality people get a hefty tax as long as they remain bachelors/bachelorettes. No child support without marriage, but the state will mandate shotgun marriages for the knocked up. Men and women are educated in separate classrooms and under a completely reformed system - less time in school, less homework, more time properly socializing, most people don't go to college.

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