Did anyone else develop a complex about how "scary" they were to women?

YetAgain67 · 2024-01-23T13:02:06+00:00

You know what's fucked?

Guys who voice this and say they cross the street at night if they're going to pass a woman, avoid getting too close to women in public because they know how they're perceived...are THANKED by feminists for being a good ally and "understanding how women feel."

Feminist men also talk about gladly performing this act.

So men who know they're automatically viewed as dangerous voice that it feels shitty and not an ounce of sympathy is given. They're just praised for accepting societies hideous view on them to spare women discomfort.

ValuableBreakfast527 · 2024-01-23T12:00:34+00:00

This dude perfectly elucidated it:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

The comment section is a relic

Intrepid_Performer52 · 2024-01-23T12:13:46+00:00

Most of the women I've dated said they were initially attracted to me because I seemed safe and non-threatening. Then, I was in a relationship with a woman with schizophrenia for a couple of years it f***ed with my image of myself as a caring and considerate romantic partner. She started making outrageous, delusional accusations against me. One time we were hiking in the woods. I pulled out my phone and she thought I was pulling out a weapon on her. She also thought I was putting poison in her antipsychotic medicine and numerous other crazy things like that. I haven't been able to get back into dating since then. I feel like I'm bad and unworthy of love.

thereslcjg2000 · 2024-01-23T13:57:19+00:00

Yeah, when I was in high school in particular. I’m mildly autistic and on the socially awkward side (was even more so at the time). I think people like me who already tend towards not understanding unwritten rules and who already have dealt with self esteem struggles as a result are more vulnerable than average to taking that kind of narrative to heart. We’re already weird and people already have a tendency to distance themselves from us, so it’s easy to believe messages about how our existence is making people feel unsafe.

Nowadays though, I’ve come to recognize that as long as I’m not hurting anyone I should not let that kind of messaging get to me.

webernicke · 2024-01-23T23:49:21+00:00

Oh yeah.

The most vivid discrimination I have ever felt (for context, I am a Black man in America) was during my college orientation when a feminist got up on stage and did the "Look to your left, look to your right one of those men will rape you" thing.

That was the most I had ever felt stereotyped and ostracized as threatening, unwanted and othered mostly because, contray to something like racism which is condemned for the most part in the 21st century, this blatant sexism was proudly displayed without any fear of reprisal by an institutional authority.

As someone that had always considered myself a supporter of women and feminism, it was totally shocking to realize that I was seen as the enemy just because of how I was born.

ugly_5ft_4incher · 2024-01-23T11:26:51+00:00

No, I'm 5ft tall, I feel like a leper. But I don't think I'm scary.

Motanul_Negru · 2024-01-23T11:19:28+00:00

All people's unjustified fear of me really does to me is make me despise them. I'm definitely not going to take their word over my knowledge of myself, incomplete and insufficiently examined as that may be.

CommercialDirector63 · 2024-01-24T04:49:03+00:00

I'm a 6'0 black man. When I lived in the 'big city' I used to cross the street whenever a women was approaching me for all the reasons people have mentioned here. Then one day I thought to myself 'this is literally what black people had to do 100 years ago when a white women was walking on the sidewalk.' From that moment I stopped caring. I don't care who is 'afraid' of me. They can cross the street or stay home. I'm not alternating my completely normal behavior to appease irrational fears.

Blauwpetje · 2024-01-23T15:51:20+00:00

I know a man who was a biological woman a few years ago. After his operation, he was shocked how, when he walked the streets at night, women automatically got out of his way. I don’t even know if the same happens to me; maybe because, if they do, I’m so used to it, having been a man all of my life.

tzaanthor · 2024-01-23T17:37:26+00:00

, its ironic that feminists seem to agree with Peterson on this point despite supposedly being on opposite political sides.

Is it.

White_Immigrant · 2024-01-23T22:55:44+00:00

I am fully aware that people find me intimidating. I used to try to be more softly spoken, avert my gaze, and be less assertive to accomodate their fear and insecurity. But I got old and stopped giving a shit, and recognised that acting in a way that is true to myself is healthier, particularly for my mental health. If people cross the road to get away from me now, I look at them the same way I would if they did it because someone was black, the problem is their prejudice, not my existence. I'm not scared, or soft, or quiet or timid, and I'm not prepared to pretend I am because other people's ideology featuring me has got them all in a tizzy.

FlexMissile99 · 2024-01-23T18:28:05+00:00

Yes, I've gone through this stage, but thankfully (in a perverse way) a serious illness that basically took me out of the dating game and some (soberingly) bad experiences with women got me out the other side. I am polite and considerate to an extent that I deem reasonable, but I refuse to make wear a gag because someone thinks I've got sharp teeth. I think the Zootopia reference is really apt: there's many valid readings of that film, but one of them is very much an allegory about the current warped state of gender relations.

odeacon · 2024-01-23T11:59:55+00:00

For a while yeah

TheHumanDamage · 2024-01-24T01:21:05+00:00

Even though I’ve become more attractive since my middle and highschool years (I’m 21), I still feel as if women view me as “weird” or “creepy” looking by default

FlexMissile99 · 2024-01-23T23:44:47+00:00

To an extent I'm making a virtue of necessity (since I'm disabled, disfigured and, to cap it off, bloody terminally ill, so have no realistic chance with women anyway), but these days I just avoid women. I am polite and cordial, but I give them no special treatment and do expect interactions with them to bring any positives to my life, in fact quite the opposite. This has been born out by years of hard experience: discrimination, mocking, bullying and just generally savage encounters. I have learned to withdraw and am happier for it. Of course on some level I do miss female company, and were I reborn as healthy and goodlooking, I would pursue it, but I would treat it as a nice to have rather than a necessity, let them come to me rather than wasting time chasing and be very cautious and picky about any long-term commitments. Probably, I wouldn't actually commit to a long-term relationship but rather manage shorter term mainly sexual encounters. I do not have, nor have ever really had, any interest in female friends: I don't like guy friends so why would that change with women?

Enzi42 · 2024-01-23T12:09:56+00:00

To answer the question no not really although it has crossed my mind more than a few times. I've caught myself wondering how threatening or "dangerous" I come off to women at times such as when walking down a sidewalk or during certain interactions.

But I don't let it dominate my mind or really dictate my actions unless it's something practical like ensuring I don't have a problem due to someone taking my behavior/presence as malevolent. Even in those cases my actions are not centered around the woman's comfort as much as my own self preservation.

This is going to sound harsh, but I see that as part of "treating women as people". We have to share the world with all kinds of people who may or may not make us uncomfortable at times.

I don't move out of the way or alter my behavior around people of other races or social status unless the situation explicitly calls for it. I fail to see why I should do the same just because a person identifies as female.

ezra502 · 2024-01-23T15:37:10+00:00

i was just thinking about this. i’m trans FTM and pre-transition i loved to compliment people’s outfits. i like fashion myself and tbh it’s nice to positively affect someone else’s day with a compliment. i don’t do it anymore with women (who are usually the wearers of cool outfits) because i don’t feel like i positively affect their day anymore. and it sucks to have that effect on people, but i get it cause that was me once. especially being a goth girl in high school you don’t need feminism to start avoiding guys, and implementing behaviors to avoid men genuinely cut down on the harassment i received by like 80 percent.

throwburneraway2 · 2024-01-23T13:55:04+00:00

You're 4th paragraph puts into words exactly what I've been feeling and have realized is what's going on. And I've Even considered being "brutish"

FellaUmbrella · 2024-01-23T14:31:40+00:00

I also experience this I've had other men get cautious of my appearance because I have a RBF and am physically imposing or threatening to enough people? I feel I'm just average and am quite the softy. A couple of my friends mentioned I do seem threatening which makes me sad, but I'm depressed and smiling isn't something I'm doing outside of conversation. I've heard from partners in the past which have told me how safe I make them feel which seems like my only redemption there.

I do try and not make eye contact with women much but I can tell they look and glance and it's not a look of appreciation or curiosity but of concerned analysis of sorts.

Fan_Service_3703 · 2024-01-23T13:53:34+00:00

When the Sarah Everard murder (in which a serving police officer used his police powers and the Covid lockdown regulations to "arrest" a young woman walking home at night, who he then kidnapped, raped and murdered) happened in the UK a few years ago, it sparked a huge wave of discussion around how every woman you know has been catcalled, followed, or harassed in public places by men. At the time I took this whole, and thought about things I could and should be doing to make women feel safer. And while I still stand by that and have no doubt those women were speaking from genuine lived experience, I've become increasingly aware that men are far more likely to be attacked or killed by a stranger than women. Surely if we're going to make the streets safer, we should make them safer for everyone.

It makes kind men get rejected so much that they eventually believe they're rough brutes, which makes them get insecure and stop approaching women, thereby depriving women of access to actual good men. Meanwhile actual rough brutes get the pass because "at least they're honest". And since these brutes are the only ones they interact with, it further reinforces the initial belief that all men are that way.

Yeah, I think about this a lot. Obviously, I absolutely do not condone catcalling or following, and there are many men who do these things for the sole purpose of intimidating women and making them uncomfortable, there are also some who do these things for the - however slim - chance that they will get a positive response. And this is a dimension that is often left out of these discussions. If we're now telling young men that interacting with a woman anywhere whether its work colleagues or in social spaces like bars, is harassment, that women just want to get on with their day/enjoy themselves with their friends and don't want men bothering them. While this is usually true, it means that young men who will ask out women politely and be respectful if rejected will not do so, and they will watch men who pursue women in more inappropriate ways achieve more success at dating and relationships than they do. This is an easy breeding ground for NiceGuy-ism (which to be clear I do not condone).

To be clear, I do not think there is ever a justification for making inappropriate comments to women in public or following them. The likelihood of frightening or upsetting someone is simply too high for anyone with functioning empathy to consider doing it. But what has been forgotten in these conversations is what actually is an ethical, respectful way to approach.

drhagbard_celine · 2024-01-23T16:21:46+00:00

To be fair, your girlfriend really has no idea how you come across to the rest of the world. Maybe you let your guard down around her and allow yourself to be vulnerable so she gets to see the real you but I bet that most people don’t get that from you so they have no idea that person exists. It’s easy to be kind and decent to people you care about but it’s a mark of character if you’re able to treat people you dislike, have no use for, or whom you view adversarially, with respect. You may be defensively coming off in a way that is off putting to people. Nobody is obligated to assume there’s a diamond in the rough underneath it all.

BKEnjoyerV2 · 2024-01-25T15:20:51+00:00

Yes definitely- after my Title IX (even though I know I didn’t do anything wrong and was still found guilty), I thought that whatever I did toward women even in a social sense would be taken the wrong way or I’d be viewed as creepy for being too emotional and everything (though I do admit I was kind of manipulative). I still harbor some of these beliefs 7 years after it all went down and even though I’m trying to break it all it’s still a challenge

Stunning_Memory8347 · 2024-01-27T00:15:06+00:00

Women aren't "deprived access" to good men. If they actually want you, they will make something happen. We need to stop putting all this hyper-accountability on men in dating when women really have all the power/choice.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2024-01-23T14:50:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

redditisatoolofevil · 2025-01-25T20:01:43+00:00

Lord it's like you get all your ideas from books. When feminists agree with Peterson on that point it's because those feminists are being honest about the things (generality incoming) that women are attracted to. And that's NOT a harmless man.

2024-01-23T13:01:22+00:00

I'm 6'3, and apparently I look like a hoodlum whenever I wear a hoodie (every time I go workout). I never gave this a thought, nor do I care to. I also never ran into issues with this when interacting with women.

A few women did tell me that I look dangerous. But, again, I never gave this a second thought because I come across scary looking people all the time. To me, this is just a normal part of life. Some people look scary, some look warm, some look like they're assholes.

To bitch and moan about something that's a completely normal part of life seems so.... like a 1st world country problem (AKA: "I got no problems so let me invent some")

rump_truck · 2024-01-23T15:35:01+00:00

A huge number of women's problems come from men not listening to women and respecting their boundaries.

Men can be ranked on a spectrum in terms of how receptive they are to women's needs, and how likely or unlikely they are to listen to them and respect their boundaries. Women have been steadily increasing the volume of their "no"s, to try to get through to the men who are least likely to listen to them, because those are the men causing the problems. However, that increasing volume has become more and more overwhelming to the men who are most receptive. After a while it started to backfire, as a lot of those men either selected themselves out of the pool entirely, or went over to TRP/PUA to be told what they are allowed to do instead of only being told "no".

I think some have started realizing that women shouting down the adult men who cause these problems is the least effective option, because the strategies seem to be changing. I've seen more of a focus on men shutting the problematic men down, because the entire core of the problem is that they won't listen to women trying to stop them. And I've seen more of a focus on educating adolescents about consent, to try to nip the problem in the bud for the next generation.

I don't think they've noticed the feminist -> nice guy -> incel/PUA/TRP pipeline yet though. I think that might start changing soon, because I think many of the men who are most receptive to their messaging are sensitive because they're neurodivergent, and neurodivergence is getting a lot of attention now. I've also seen a lot of lesbians and bisexual women expressing that they're afraid of accidentally harassing or objectifying women, and I think feminists are going to be about a million times more sensitive to them than to the straight men saying exactly the same thing.

Simon_Fokt · 2024-01-23T18:54:21+00:00

I thought a lot about this, because when dating as a man I often feel guilty before proven innocent. But I don't blame the women for this, they've got good reasons to be cautious.

If you want, I can link a text I've written about this, I just don't want to spam uninvited.

BubsGodOfTheWastes · 2024-01-23T14:57:12+00:00

I had no idea until my LGBTQ+ teen was telling me about the types of people his community see as scary. Well that's me (tall big white cis-het looking male). So I started wearing pride pins, heart glasses, and since then, people approach me all the time where before I just thought they "minded their own business".

You can't fix everyone, but you can take steps to make yourself be seen as someone who is safe rather than a potential danger.

Clemicus · 2024-01-23T21:19:54+00:00

I'm sure lots of people had the shared experience of grief caused by women fearing them unjustly, but I'm curious if it really made any deluded in the same way it did me.

You mean the look of fear? I get that from both men and women.

But the funny thing is, I now realize that my personality is actually the complete opposite of what I thought it was. And it partially took my now-girlfriend to help me realize it.

When I read this post earlier the thought I had was for this part was it probably wasn't one way. That when you get to know someone better you know more about their beliefs and behaviours, how they move, and the reasons for some of that.

An analogy would be someone judging a book by its cover versus someone who's taken the time to at least read some of that book. You learn about each other and hopefully grow.

stop approaching women, thereby depriving women of access to actual good men.

I think that's more to do with risk tolerance, messaging, and how much time you spend online.

It probably comes down if you're a reasonable person you'd change your behaviour. You start to question if you're the problem and you lose part of yourself.

If you believe it's bad to certain things like approaching someone to ask them out or just talk to someone is bad, then you start to change your behaviour. You do that less and less, then stop yourself and list off the pros and cons. The list of cons may get longer and then you just stop approaching altogether.

It makes kind men get rejected so much that they eventually believe they're rough brutes, which makes them get insecure and

If you're rejected every time why would you try? There's a certain point where there's no incentive. You've already walked that path multiple times and there's nothing else to gain from walking down it again.

And given how worse it is out there, at what point do you become demotivated to even try?

Meanwhile actual rough brutes get the pass because "at least they're honest". And since these brutes are the only ones they interact with, it further reinforces the initial belief that all men are that way.

If you meant dark triad traits there's some truth to that but it's fuelled by sexism. Certain beliefs existed before any of this.

And since he's faking it, he's worse than the ones who at least don't make an effort to fake it. Which shows how feminism actually rewards and creates all the behaviors it claims to abhor.

False dichotomy. That's part of a belief system, you outlined it. They already have false beliefs about men. They're not formed on the basis of interactions with men, only reinforced.

If we're going down that route: Isn't it better to keep a few self-loafing tigers around?

That I really believed I was one of those classic aggressive jerks feminists love to complain about (or at least made enough mistakes to reasonably seem like one of them).

Then don't listen to someone who has the worst opinion you, yourself.

PS

rough brutes

brutes

Maybe it's the difference in vernacular but that's a bit ironic given the premise. That's from the part in Zootopia where Officer Jenny gives a statement to the press and there's a montage.

JetChipp · 2024-01-24T23:16:25+00:00

No, I do sometimes question if there is something fundamentally wrong with me due to being exposed to a tweet where someone asked "what is wrong with men?" after showing crime statistics when I was about 13 or a 14 years old though.

Funilly enough, entertaining a kinda of a "nothing matters and this all pointless" stance helps to cope with that a bit, I think that my dislike for social interaction (in person) will help a lot if I ever develop a complex like the one you mentioned.

Title	Did anyone else develop a complex about how "scary" they were to women?
Author	BloomingBrains
Upvotes	192
Comments	164
Date	January 23, 2024 9:05 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/19dka6m/did_anyone_else_develop_a_complex_about_how_scary/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/did-anyone-else-develop-a-complex-about-how-scary.1243577 https://theredarchive.com/post/1243577

Comments