If you get furious about...

Dakrys · 2013-08-12T14:45:05+00:00

I need to see sources for most of this.

rogersmith25 · 2013-08-12T16:28:41+00:00

I keep saying this, but I think it's worth mentioning - the fact that there are more male CEOs is relatively meaningless as an indicator of our present education climate and policies.

CEOs are older people; they tend to be at the end/top of their careers. If CEOs are in their 50s, it means that we are dealing with people born and raised in the 1950s and 1960s - and the social and educational biases present at that time. The under-representation of women in high positions in this age bracket is completely unsurprising.

When we look at the falling grades of boys in grade school today, those pro-female biases won't show up in "CEO demographics" until 2050 or so.

TL;DR - If we use 50 year-olds to measure the relative success of various social demographics, we will forever be decades behind in reacting to social issues and biases; and we will inevitably overshoot the changes required to restore balance, as we are right now with pro-female policies.

Muffinizer1 · 2013-08-12T14:59:41+00:00

I really don't like #2 on the left, #5, and #7 on the right is by no stretch of the imagination a fact. This is terrible pr for mens rights.

PerfectHair · 2013-08-12T13:43:00+00:00

Gonna need a source for the 'fact' of Gynosympathy.

Hydro033 · 2013-08-12T15:42:54+00:00

I am a graduate student in Biology. Most graduate students in our department are women.

fullretard257 · 2013-08-12T14:57:27+00:00

What if you believe both are half truths and decided a little from column a and a little from column b

Kuato2012 · 2013-08-12T15:39:38+00:00

A couple of critiques:

I'd like to see footnotes with sources for all of the claims. For instance, the claim that misandrist bias is stronger than racist bias in courts. That's really shocking and provocative, to the point where I'm inclined to call bullshit unless I see some good data backing it up. Wherever possible, the sources should be outside of the men's rights blogosphere, otherwise it just looks like a circlejerk.

Second, I'm confused by the symbol at the bottom. There's a male/female symbol with a buster slash through it, overlaid on a feather or something. The meaning was really unclear.

ExiledSenpai · 2013-08-12T15:55:34+00:00

Whenever an info-graph or a person uses the words "scientifically proven" it sets off my bullshit meter. When my bullshit meter is set off for one part of an infograph it calls in to question the validity of the entire thing. If you cite sources, this is fine. If you don't, this is nothing more than a person's subjective opinion based on his or her interpretation on what he or she has read and/or observed.

Take line 4 for example. I can easily switch the left column to say "The scientifically proven fact of patriarchy" and switch the right column to "The pseudohistorical myth of gynosympathy" and the average reader wouldn't be any the wiser.

C'mon people, we can do better than this.

SilencingNarrative · 2013-08-12T19:06:42+00:00

Excellent work. That was brilliant.

Everything_Is_Rape · 2013-08-12T15:08:58+00:00

I don't see rape on that list.

or more accurately, I see lots of rape on that list.

noprotein · 2013-08-12T15:29:24+00:00

Very hostile and I don't think this will prompt anything productive unfortunately.

Edit: Not much time, but a few of the ones that struck me as off base or wanting anger/angst in return.

"The small fraction of violence that is against women" - Do we even have a gauge for "total violence" and then are we sure only a "small fraction" of all encompassing violence is against women? The language is inflammatory, vague, and not defined so as to cause a reaction and an instantaneous demand for sources.

"The psuedohistorical myth of the Patriarchy" - Arguably true for thousands of years in nearly all societies (within reason). Whether or not women experience a type of sympathy doesn't correlate or contradict whether or not men ruled and subjugated women throughout history.

"The fact that the court system's misandrist bias is worse than its racist bias" - What the hell? What does "worse" even mean? I would argue it's more prevalent or obvious about it existing but the actual ramifications of that bias are significantly worse in racial examples. Freedom taken away from a person or ordered to death and the quality of their trial based on their race or social standing and the possibility of getting a fair shot, vs being more inclined to lose access to your children due to bias against men. I would argue these are on completely different levels and see this as a fallacious/empty follow up.

This is just a few things that off the bat made me never want to share this with others. When that happens, I like to ask why and then point it out so as to be defined as constructive criticism or at least a bit of an unbiased (if such a thing can exist) response.

Kuonji · 2013-08-12T14:03:57+00:00

"The fact that anyone would bring up anything in the right-hand column"

Truth.

Klaue · 2013-08-12T16:47:47+00:00

You can always tell when a sub is being brigaded. 244 people upvoted this thread. Yet every top post is from by some dickbag from /r/adviceanimals basically going 'nuh-uh, that's not true!!! Site sources. Oh, you did... well, this is Unhelpful!'

TacticalKittens · 2013-08-12T15:07:23+00:00

For a second I thought I was on r/circlejerk

eDgEIN708 · 2013-08-12T17:10:18+00:00

I like it, but as people are pointing out, everything's better with sources.

willmaster123 · 2013-08-12T17:35:23+00:00

Jesus christ this is an absolutely terrible infograph. Most of this stuff isn't even true, and a lot of it can be explained with simple reasoning (90% of workplace deaths are men because men form the largest physical labor force, Women are less homeless because it is usually easier for them to move in with someone, and yes, the idea of a deadbeat dad is actually a thing, it just doesn't represent all dads)

I just think that /r/mensrights needs to stop cherrypicking everything and focus on the issues that we actually CAN fight for.

foothockeypro · 2013-08-12T16:28:25+00:00

Big Red!!

Arvald · 2013-08-12T16:27:52+00:00

yeaaaaah this is horribly worded, makes it very confrontational, big on "hot" words, no sources cited.

Zargogo · 2013-08-12T22:26:35+00:00

Come on, OP. I didn't sign up for this shit.

nebock · 2013-08-12T19:22:22+00:00

The grammar...ow....

PoopInMyHand · 2013-08-12T17:12:55+00:00

More intelligent academic based posts, less dumb Facebook info-graphics please.

badforedu · 2013-08-13T01:20:56+00:00

I don't believe in some huge patriarchy that exists now to surpress and undermine women but isn't it a little silly to pretend like it didn't exist before? I mean for years men definitely held higher social statuses worldwide. Its certainly a different game now of course.

TantivyMM · 2013-08-13T01:26:15+00:00

Right side, third line down, "WOMAN" s/b "WOMEN."

HotLipsMcgillicuddy · 2013-08-13T01:43:22+00:00

yes, sources are important, but i rather enjoy the message that we are so wrapped up in equal rights that it's become oppressive, it's even worse when you bring race relations into the discussion.

thatbossguy · 2013-08-13T02:09:52+00:00

I am mad about both sides!

The one solution to this in the long run is not raising girls to be spoiled pretty princess and not raising boys as a little immortal balls of destruction.

barbadosslim · 2013-08-12T17:06:26+00:00

Well it's not every day that you see someone make a strawman of their own position.

You guys need to open your minds and think critically about why your movement is called sexist.

MassAphex · 2013-08-12T18:28:09+00:00

OP do you plan on offering any sources to back up these claims? Does anyone have any sources for this stuff? You keep saying "the fact that..." well can you at least back up these "facts" with a source? Not saying you're wrong, but I would like to see sources for at least half of these. Especially the "myth of historical patriarchy"

Posts like these making unbacked claims should not be on the front page of the subreddit.

notheanix · 2013-08-12T16:11:42+00:00

what is that symbol at the bottom middle, a "no" circle with male and female symbol attachments over a white feather?

SPARTAN_TOASTER · 2013-08-12T20:40:34+00:00

is there any way to get just the right side and with sources? on whole i would say while feminism dose get in the way of men's rights it will be better if we don't attack them unless provoked, less we be made out as the bad guys

GoldenDickLocks · 2013-08-12T16:15:13+00:00

This is definitely very impartial.

giveupitscrazy · 2013-08-12T16:07:17+00:00

Can I get a source for the domestic violence one?

I find it hard to believe 70% when so much domestic violence goes unreported

Edit: found a source from here

Agent_Nycto · 2013-08-12T19:16:01+00:00

Facts or not, this just makes MR look bad. It's antagonistic, and it does nothing more than push people away. If you read the same thing but with a radical feminist slant, you would be upset and offended... Mostly because of how it's presented. This is just going to turn people away.

vodka_is_a_solution · 2013-08-12T16:18:43+00:00

I like when it listed bias as something bad then was extremly bias... Fuck yesj

2013-08-12T17:52:15+00:00

This is...kind of corny.

Jess_than_three · 2013-08-12T17:43:22+00:00

When women are more frequently in careers that pay lower than those that are dominated by men - that's women's fault.

When men are more frequently in careers that are more dangerous than those that are dominated by women - that's women's fault.

Clever little system you've got here, OP.

Teh_Ent · 2013-08-12T17:04:00+00:00

It's called the double standard, Bobby. Don't knock it — we got the long end of the stick on that one.

AWizard · 2013-08-12T14:06:46+00:00

That comes handy in the other thread I am currently discussing, over in /r/AdviceAnimals.

(oops, showed my hand)

Abelisk · 2013-08-13T03:33:12+00:00

Stop with the us verses them bullshit. It doesn't help anyone.

digger64 · 2013-08-13T05:28:40+00:00

Some people love to get others riled up, much more than they like discussing ideas seriously.

exiledcoyote · 2013-08-13T15:46:42+00:00

I think that this image would have been better without the derogatory adjectives describing the view that is less popular here.

bizarroAndres · 2013-08-12T17:33:16+00:00

Being a white male is so hard!!! Argh!!1

undersight · 2013-08-12T20:53:54+00:00

"Gynosympathy"? What a stupid term. I did a Google search of it and only 15 results came up. So I don't know why that image included it. Come on, that's like saying that males being more sympathetic to males would be "Penilesympathy".

sconeTodd · 2013-08-12T21:48:36+00:00

This infographic is literally cancer.

yourunconscious · 2013-08-13T09:23:45+00:00

This graph is nothing more than propaganda and is not looking to discuss rights but looking to put down feminism and promote masculism.

It's like I'm in r/feminism only the retardedness is coming from the other side this time.

Unenjoyed · 2013-08-12T16:37:39+00:00

Actually, I get furious about all caps all the time.

siobois · 2013-08-13T04:05:13+00:00

What if I told you these are feminist issues! Feminism has been examining how gender bias and masculine expectations and stereotypes have a negative effect on men. IE men who want to be primary caregivers.

rafajafar · 2013-08-13T04:56:56+00:00

The FACT that this author thinks you can put the word FACT in front of anything MRM related and it caries more weight gives me the OPINION he should probably shhhhhh.

diderooy · 2013-08-13T00:55:26+00:00

Wouldn't a feminist (or even a rationalist) point out that the evidence of difference in pay accounts for #6?

If you get furious about...

Comments

7, however, is much less of a stretch. This study found that men average around 60% longer jail sentences than women, for the same crime, history, and pre-charge observables. Meanwhile, this study found the gap between black-white sentencing-length to be only 10% (third page, ctrl + f "length")

2 has a point, but I think just didn't fully make it.

Title	If you get furious about...
Author	MuzakNinja
Upvotes	935
Comments	296
Date	August 12, 2013 1:29 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1k7e9z/if_you_get_furious_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/if-you-get-furious-about.1166570 https://theredarchive.com/post/1166570