Viewers are left outraged as Sir Cliff Richard tells Loose Women he'd rather 10 guilty people go free than one innocent person suffer after he was wrongly accused of historical sex offences

Therealmejiemperor · 2018-11-28T11:58:10+00:00

How the fuck is Blackstone controversial????? It’s a foundational document on legal commentary.

DubsPackage · 2018-11-28T11:24:44+00:00

"It's better for 10 guilty to go free than 1 innocent to suffer" is a basic principle of presumption of innocence and main feature of liberal democracy.

For example some people got murdered and you got accused and will be put into electric chair, are you ok with that? And since you are not the murderer, the murderer goes free.

"Doesn't matter, as long as someone pays."

Sure let's just grab any black guy off the street, fuck his life, who cares if we get the wrong guy.

I don't believe most women would be ok with 1 person suffering unjustly, if that 1 person was a woman.

If it's a man, then ok, fuck his life.

This is the way feminists and women's lib types think, in their minds all men are expendable to the benefit of womankind, doesn't matter if it's reasonable or wrong or right or fair. Only their lives matter.

mikesteane · 2018-11-28T11:34:26+00:00

I found the comments, many of which were along the lines of "what about the victims of the 10 guilty people who go free? Shouldn't that overrule the presumption of innocence?" quite shocking. This kind of thinking is opening the door for the kind of dictatorships that destroy people by the million.

pauliogazzio · 2018-11-28T11:29:14+00:00

What's he doing on that shitwreck of a show? I would have thought big celebs would stay away from showslike Loose Women or The View.

SnapesEvilTwin · 2018-11-28T13:35:30+00:00

If you get a verdict wrong, either way a guilty person walks free.

If an innocent person is convicted, there's still a real guilty person out there who escaped justice.

Hadashi_blacksky · 2018-11-28T10:42:23+00:00

The reaction people have to this phrase determines if they have a tyrannical mindset or a justice based viewpoint.

RogerSmithOnDrugs · 2018-11-28T12:26:18+00:00

The daily mail is playing the "let's scour Twitter to find a dozen people upset at something"

user_miki · 2018-11-28T10:46:58+00:00

Controversial?OMG.The lack of basic education is outstanding.

This is the foundation of christian morals/religion(Sodom and Gomorrah story) and the western law(presumption of innocence)

Wisemanner · 2018-11-28T10:46:37+00:00

Their response would be different if the accused were female.

MGTOWmadness · 2018-11-28T17:29:33+00:00

The outrage shows how far out of touch feminism is.

DongleNocker · 2018-11-28T11:39:57+00:00

We should always error on the side of not falsely punishing innocent people. Cause either way you are going to have guilty people going free since if a person is falsely convicted the real criminal still remains free to commit more crime.

ZimbaZumba · 2018-11-28T16:09:49+00:00

He is quoting Blackstone's Principle which is a cornerstone of our justice system.

48151_62342 · 2018-11-28T15:47:00+00:00

Since when is that statement controversial? Yikes, how society has regressed in such a short period of time is disturbing

Goatcrapp · 2018-11-28T16:28:25+00:00

Thats the cornerstone of our legal system. (in theory if not in practice)

But those who are easily upset only hear the first part... and don't put it together in context.

McFeely_Smackup · 2018-11-28T17:31:14+00:00

so, the moral principle that underlies the system of justice of every civilized nation is offensive and outrageous.

These people have become a caricature of themselves.

FinFihlman · 2018-11-28T14:12:50+00:00

It is the fucking foundation of the justice system that we don't fucking punish innocents (and thus guilty can go free in some instances). How fucking stupid are people who want to tear this foundation down god fucking damn it.

Speedysprout04 · 2018-11-28T16:45:57+00:00

These femenists are crazy 😂

Hot4M · 2018-11-28T16:56:02+00:00

Feminists and women in general cannot argue with his "lived experience."

saikon_1485 · 2018-11-28T16:57:48+00:00

feminists not liking the idea of due process isnt anything new sad to say. It is however good to see that more powerful people are being affected because once the salem bitch trials affect the power structure of society then mens issues will get even more attention.

Teknikal69 · 2018-11-28T17:57:33+00:00

I kind of agree with Cliff here. If there is no actual evidence leave people alone if there really is some sure send them before a judge but they should still be presumed innocent until the thing is over.

TimeTravellingSperm · 2018-11-28T14:19:21+00:00

I don’t think they can do the math. If a rape occurs and you get the wrong person, you create 2 victims: the raped and the falsely accused. And the rapist still walks free.

dontpet · 2018-11-28T15:31:51+00:00

That accused man is marked for life even if declared innocent. That should give at least some satisfaction to the crowd.

BetterBadIdeas · 2018-11-28T18:39:43+00:00

But that's Blackstones ratio...one of the foundational concepts in modern criminal justice and the reason we demand proof of guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt".

These people are literally taking offense to an ancient concept that is widely agreed upon as a foundation of any legal system not in the business of human rights abuses.

Electroverted · 2018-11-28T18:42:23+00:00

The reason that society is ok with collateral damage is because they think they'll never be that collateral.

marcooni1 · 2018-11-28T13:04:32+00:00

Sir Cliff ewas talking about innocent people, but still there were some commentators, that was only men being sex offenders

Clemicus · 2018-11-28T15:20:54+00:00

Anybody who states they've lost respect never had any to begin. If this was the case, they'd agree to disagree on a point which is one of the pillars of the - - western - - justice system.

jaheiner · 2018-11-28T16:13:45+00:00

Yet it's cool when these people say it'd be better to have innocent men in prison than for one guilty to go free.

Brockkilledspeedy · 2018-11-28T16:25:54+00:00

When I was growing up, in 4th or 5th grade we had an entire semester lead up to the realization that not even a single innocent person rotting away in prison is justified even if we let hundreds of guilty go free. It isn't justice.

wwwhistler · 2018-11-28T23:02:48+00:00

i think Benjamin Franklin said it better

"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved"

Blueu2 · 2018-11-28T15:16:16+00:00

In a sane society, we would get together and discuss this issue in depth. We would not attack the person making the statement, but rather take apart the statement itself. The person who said this would feel completely at ease (not fired from a job, would not be harassed, etc.) and would only feel slightly bad if the majority disagreed with him.

But we don’t live in such a society... so we have to deal with lunatics that want to destroy this man.

ThreeLF · 2018-11-28T16:22:53+00:00

If you read the article, and watch the video the audience and Sir Richards' co-hosts are all agreeing with what he says about wrongful convictions. What this article means to say is that a handful of outspoken and angry individuals on twitter have expressed their discontent.

Oh boy, people arguing about stuff on Twitter. That's news now? Seriously?

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment Sir Richard is sharing here - as I'm sure we all do - but is this really the sensationalized, editorialized, and blatantly misleading article we want to prop up?

It's contributing even further to the us-vs-them mentality by pretending there's more adversarial-ism than there really is.

svenskbitch · 2018-11-28T16:39:58+00:00

To be fair, there are better ways to make that same point. Especially as we know that feminists can become outraged at far minor infractions. Yes, he is right, but he cannot reasonable claim not to have known the reactions that his remarks would spark.

But it is still a sign of the times that saying something which is not only reasonable, but even reflects a foundational principle of any justice system, can trigger such vitriol.

Of course, we see this all over - it is not a phenomenon reserved for the perennially outraged left.

raven982 · 2018-11-28T18:48:35+00:00

This is the basis of our legal system.

Maelshevek · 2018-11-28T18:56:00+00:00

Well... I think a ten to one ratio of investigated crimes resulting in appropriate punishment is a decent rate for humans (given our fallibility). But 9 people also in jail appropriately doesn’t justify (make okay) injustice against one person.

So these statements are problematic because those who hear them may not understand. It actually sounds rather messed up at first glance. I was prepared to downvote and speak out.

So this will be my takeaway (what he really meant) and ideal scenario: I would rather the guilty go free sometimes under “innocent until proven guilty [with evidence]” than have a system of justice where people are presumed guilty by the mere accusation of another. The second system isn’t fully here, but it’s what people who decry rape culture and mass sexual harassment use to justify the second system against men. Frankly, it’s what the tyrannical have used against the oppressed since the dawn of time (and still use to this day).

Let’s continue to advocate for real justice, evidence, and open processes (where appropriate). Holding a higher standard is the only way to ensure injustice cannot thrive.

R-ageQuit · 2018-11-28T21:11:07+00:00

I don’t feel like reading all the comments, so someone may have said this already... or it may be an unpopular opinion... but whatever.

Honestly, I agree with this dude; especially considering what the vast majority of the “guilty” men have been convicted of. Chances are, most of them were probably locked up or what the fuck ever over a woman’s ass being grabbed, or explicit language being used in relation to her appearance or something.

Not to say there is also probably a number of them that did actually commit heinous acts, don’t get me wrong.

But in today’s society, statistically speaking, I’d say the former has a higher probability of being the case.

GTFonMF · 2018-11-28T22:04:42+00:00

The fact these people don’t understand the legal system should be no surprise to anyone.

pinstrypsoldier · 2018-11-28T14:09:49+00:00

The whole justice system is based on the idea that it’s better for a guilty person to go free than for an innocent person to go to jail. Hence ‘innocent until proven guilty’ beyond any reasonable doubt. Even if everything points to one person, if there’s any shadow of a doubt, it’s not worth the risk of incarcerating someone who’s innocent.

Ovv_Topik · 2018-11-28T13:23:55+00:00

I use this question early on when getting to know someone. I kind of turn it into a game, but really I'm examining them.

Those who dont agree with the principle, I maintain them as acquaintances at most. Life is too short to bother with these people who disagree with the principle. I don't think they have the capacity to think critically or ever change. They are authoritarians at heart, and power in their hands should always be limited if not taken away.

duganaok · 2018-11-28T20:26:34+00:00

That’s a corner stone of our society. Better people go free then the suffering of any innocent man or woman.

Silfz · 2018-11-28T20:34:43+00:00

They should put it to women in a way that would make them question. For every 10 times you go to the hair dresser they fuck it up once.

keyjunkrock · 2018-11-28T21:43:13+00:00

I'm curious now. How many woman are wrongly convicted of crimes I wonder....

Nomandate · 2018-11-28T14:03:22+00:00

That has always been a core philosophy in us judicial system. (If you're white, at least.)

Lilcee21 · 2018-11-28T13:58:43+00:00

“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but there will always be something to offend a feminist” Peter Lloyd REKT that Libtard

ThePigmanAgain · 2018-11-28T10:13:57+00:00

See, that ain't right. Really, that's no better than the feminist pieces of shit who say they have no problem with innocent men going to jail if it means the guilty not going free.

chambertlo · 2018-11-28T12:23:38+00:00

Of that line offends you, you are infected with feminism and should seek treatment. Perhaps a tampon?

sweetdaddyg · 2018-11-28T18:41:08+00:00

Google elm guest house. Cliff was up to his eyes in it

Pro4TLZZ · 2018-11-28T18:50:22+00:00

fuck them viewers

Blarty97 · 2018-11-28T20:02:04+00:00

~~viewers~~ Daily Mail readers

ElectricMag314 · 2018-11-28T20:34:07+00:00

Isn't anyone bothered by the basic fact that odds 9/10 beat odds 1/10?

EdinMiami · 2018-11-28T21:31:38+00:00

What "viewers" were outrage. The women on the panel seemed to agree with him and unless applause means something different in Europe, the audience seemed to agree with him too?

Clickbait title?

2018-11-29T16:02:47+00:00

This post about an article about negative tweets about a statement made on a TV show generated 2.3 thousand likes and 249 comments.

J2501 · 2018-11-28T14:39:06+00:00

'Oh Cliff! Sometimes it must be difficult not to feel as if You really are a cliff When fascists keep trying to push you over it! Are they the lemmings, or are you Cliff? Or ARE you, Cliff?' -Rik

skepticalbob · 2018-11-28T18:52:02+00:00

The good news is that this is what is happening, except a lot more than 10 rapists and molesters go free for every innocent that is charged.

If we really care about this, we should all be calling for sex crimes police to have far greater staffing and funding to be able to full investigate allegations and either charge the accuser (if they are actually naming someone, which they usually don't in false accusations) or charge the suspect.

Viewers are left outraged as Sir Cliff Richard tells Loose Women he'd rather 10 guilty people go free than one innocent person suffer after he was wrongly accused of historical sex offences

Comments

Why is there a presumption of innocence?