Different priorities and different types of disgust.

wub1234 · 2018-04-12T15:27:11+00:00

See if this rings a bell with anyone...

Dither, dither, dither, flake, flake, flake, more dithering, more flaking. Here's my number. Oh, I'm getting cold feet, I'm not going to answer you. This time I will answer you, oh I can't go an actual date, this is moving too fast, I think I'll block you instead. Yes, I will go on a date...sorry, something's come up, I'm going to have to cancel. Of course, I will now never speak to you again. Now I'm going to go back on the same dating site that I went on before, and chat to more guys, get more numbers, then ignore them when it gets close to meeting them.

That's not even going into ghosting, which is now just normal behaviour. The majority of people (I assume men do it, I haven't dated men) will ghost you now, rather than have the common courtesy of saying that they don't want to see you again.

I'm not even counting the one word or otherwise pathetic answers that you will get a lot of the time to emails, or the phenomenon of chatting with a woman, and it seems to be progressing reasonably well, then she reads an email you've sent, doesn't like it for some reason, and never answers. I understand why that happens, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

So you never know whether you should ask for a number quickly, which some women object to and will then never speak to you again, or try to engage them in conversation for a while before asking for a number, either of which can turn out to the wrong approach, and different women have different expectations regarding how you will act, and if you don't meet those expectations then they will instantly ignore you, and never explain why.

Then you have the phenomenon of people being on sites like Tinder (I've never been on Tinder) just for validation. They literally have no intention of ever meeting anyone. There was an article on the BBC website about that this week.

And that's not forgetting the serial daters, who just go out on date after date after date, but are looking for someone so ridiculously perfect that he will never materialise. In the BBC article I just linked to, the author states "at one point I was a five-dates-in-five-days type of gal. It was madly fun – but exhausting." How is it fun to date five different guys every week, then blow them all off? I met someone last year, who merrily told me (and so she mustn't have thought it would put me off) that she'd dated 50 men in the last six months. I wish she'd told me earlier, and I wouldn't have bothered turning up.

Hey, but don't worry because your chances are massively elevated by meeting women face-to-face. I mean, if you approach a woman in real life, you probably have a less than 1% chance of it ever going anywhere (assuming you're not both drunk) so that's obviously really encouraging.

And then at the end of all this...after flaking right, left and centre, and leading God knows how many guys a merry dance, while in many cases contributing nothing of interest whatsoever, they have gained no self-awareness from this at all. They will still say to their friends...

Why can't I meet a decent guy? I just can't understand it.

Barely-moral · 2018-04-12T14:40:51+00:00

In respect to the sex vs commitment there is one aspect of women that I found quite irritating, getting close to hating it.

If a woman is willing to have sex with "x person" without getting commitment, that means that "x person" is attractive.

If the same woman is not willing to have sex with "y person" without getting commitment, that means "y person" is not as attractive as "x person"

If a woman has a past of no strings attached sex with men that she had no interest in having a serious relationship with, and after she "grows up" asks for commitment from the man she is considering having a serious relationship with, she is sending the following message:

"You are not as attractive as the men that came before you. They were attractive enough for me to fuck them before they commit"

The same applies for women that are willing to experiment sexually with non serious hook ups but are not willing to do the same things for their serious LTR partner.

It is quite irritating to see a woman willing to do more for non serious relationships and ask for less from those men, but when it comes to "the man of her life" she does less and asks for more.

Taipanshimshon · 2018-04-12T17:55:37+00:00

your vagina is not special and does not secure commitment. If you think this, you should probably reconsider what you provide to a commitment.

If you want to have sex, have sex. But dont use it as a tool to get commitment or as a tool to try to influence the guy

exit_sandman · 2018-04-12T15:49:33+00:00

To me it seemed needy, desperate and "low". Now I think that I understand that the moral judgment probably arose from simply having a different priority. To women commitment seems to be the big deal and for men it seems to be sex. So I could never understand how somebody could consider sex so important that he is willing to lie or cheat for it and thus violate the commitment aspect and I simply felt disgust for what I considered to be weakness arising from neediness and not having spine in the first place.

Now, I believe that there must be similar feelings of disgust in men towards seemingly feminine weaknesses.

I would like to avoid those traps, or if not possible, I would like to at least understand the male perspective on them better.

Due to men wanting women more than vice versa, individual men rarely ever experience a woman wanting to trap them in a relationship so much that they stoop down to the lowest level possible; and as such neither develop an antennae for that kind of behavior nor a pronounced disgust for it.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-04-12T14:51:03+00:00

he is willing to lie or cheat for it

What makes you think red pill men are cheating? Cheating on their non-existent relationships? Who is there to cheat on?

Which are the traits for which you "despise" women?

Flakey (non-committal).

Misleading communication (While I do appreciate the subtle beauty of feminine communication, there is a fine line between being subtle and being a hypocrite).

Being a huge un-feminine bitch, then doing a blackflip 180 while re-discovering her femininity and then claiming she is only interested in dating "real men."

sex vs. commitment polarity?

Giving away sex for free in their earlier years, and then doing a corkscrew 900 to where she is only interested in giving sex away in return for commitment and resources.

Ultimately, I think feminism has done a disservice to women in this respect by encouraging a promiscuous lifestyle that most women don't want nor do they enjoy. I think there is an unspoken assumption among the women I've observed taking part in this lifestyle in that the men they slept were assumed to be their allies in exploring their sexuality. They are typically wrong in this assumption and come out the other end feeling used.

blackedoutfast · 2018-04-12T18:08:57+00:00

going for commitment is somewhat understandable. the real equivalent would be women who have no real sexual intent but tease a guy to manipulate him to do things or buy things.

a few months ago i was in a bar on a random tuesday night. it was pretty empty, maybe 5 or 6 dudes sitting at the bar shooting the shit and drinking. and one drunk girl who was desperate for attention.

this girl approached every dude in the bar and did the exact same thing to each one. she started flirting hard, showing a lot of IOIs, sat in his lap, rubbing his dick through his pants, and then eventually pulled the collar of her shirt down and showed the guy her tits. and then she asked him for a drink.

and most of the guys were thirsty betas, and they were thinking they hit the jackpot and were going to take this horny chick home. so they bought her a drink.

and as soon as she got her drink, she would stand up and walk away and go outside to smoke a cig or play with her phone or something.

and then when she finished her drink and came back inside, she completely ignored the last guy and started flirting with a different guy and went through the whole routine and pulled out her tits and asked for another drink.

Lacy_Drays · 2018-04-12T18:10:52+00:00

theres no general rule imo. some guys will hate you for not being in awe and impressed with them all the time, some men will hurt you if you dare to confront... and some men fully accept and don't get slighted, but just take it as an opportunity to improve.

trust your gut.

don't bother thinking "i hope he likes me," - think "i hope i like him".

your life, you lead, regardless of gender. you want a competent partner who is open enough to sort out their own shit and trusts you can do the same for yourself. unless you're in to this whole co-dependency dynamic.

Raii-v2 · 2018-04-12T18:48:33+00:00

We are disgusted by behaviors that take advantage of our sex’s needs in the dating game.

Men who lie for sex are like people who steal from stores (you get the sex without paying for it)

Women who cheat are the same (you get the commitment without paying for it)

Women need to be flexible givers with integrity and a good attitude

Anything that falls short is a gross waste of time

Pope_Lucious · 2018-04-12T22:37:50+00:00

I’m disgusted whenever a woman puts the responsibility of her emotions on a man.

“If he loved me, he wouldn’t make me feel this way”.

All respect is lost whenever I hear things like this.

Men do this some as well, but women get away with it more. We enable their bad habits because we want to fuck them.

solorathain · 2018-04-13T00:32:53+00:00

Women are not entitled to commitment, just as men are not entitled to sex.

You engage in a one night stand, with the subtle unspoken hope it will lead to a longer romantic relationship. The next day, he leaves, and never speaks to you again.

Yes, your feelings are hurt, but you weren't entitled to that relationship. You weren't entitled to his commitment.

Not entirely different from a guy who pays for everything on a first date, is very respectful, and then he doesn't even get a kiss on the cheek at the end of it.

You weren't a victim. You just didn't get everything you hoped for. At least all your meals were paid for, and you got to fuck. I can't say that for the other guy; no sex and his wallet is emptier.

sublimemongrel · 2018-04-12T15:10:03+00:00

Interesting, I read this post and there seems to be a notion that men lie and cheat. And women don't? They would never lie to a man, never lead him on with no intention to respond to his advances, never toy with his feelings, never play games? Really? I must have lived my life in a parallel universe.

Supernumiphone · 2018-04-12T17:46:26+00:00

I wouldn't go so far as "disgust" or "despise", but one thing does come to mind that immediately puts me off of a woman, even if she is otherwise appealing. It's actually the tendency you mention here, for women to ascribe negative qualities and motivations to male tendencies.

To me it seemed needy, desperate and "low".

This. I've put a lot of effort into understanding women. This has allowed me to be accepting of behaviors in them that I otherwise probably would have judged negatively as well. If a woman has not put in a modicum of effort to understand men in a similar fashion, I know I am wasting my time with her. I'm not going to put up with anyone telling me I'm wrong just for being a man.

I understand that men do the same thing, and I may be biased in seeing women do this more simply because I'm a man and that's where my attention is. However I suspect that there is a lot more motivation for men to put in the effort. Given that men are generally expected to be the initiators and pursuers in matters of romance, it is up to them to figure out how to do that effectively.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2018-04-12T21:14:41+00:00

I don't even know where to begin with this but I'll quote 1984:

He disliked nearly all women, and especially the young and pretty ones. It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers-out of unorthodoxy.

I think Orwell was a genius and he was spot on with this assessment. I really despise this kind of herd mentality that women (and a lot of men) have and the blatant hypocrisy they show when they shame men for not having the balls to X, Y, Z, (eg. cold approach) when there's not a cat's chance in hell they would do the same.

As a side note, I have a lot of respect for women who go against the herd and speak out against them. I understand that they are taking a big and unnecessary risk in doing so, and are most likely fighting against their own nature in some respects.

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-04-12T22:30:26+00:00

Women have to be more honest about what they want. I'm sure most women want commitment, but not from the men that are offering commitment to them. I believe that women would love to enjoy sex, but many seem to gravitate towards the men who do not care if they get off anyway. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. I can respect their decisions, but when they turn round and complain about being played, or that their man doesn't care about their pleasure, it begs the question; Are you really, at this stage of your life, behoved to obtain all of this, or is it the chase or the challenge that you're really after?

Another thing that is very frustrating is the way that they treat the men that they are not attracted to with so much hostility or indifference. There are men out there that aren't so successful, but they are actually good and respectful dudes. (not NiceGuy^tm) And they're the one's who get the blunt of the criticism. They get to bare the unflattering labels, and their advances are met with slander, or are perceived as a nuisance at best. Think about it. Tons of these young lasses say that a man isn't 'entitled' to ask "why", when a woman ends a relationship. Well isn't that an entirely reasonable thing to ask, when you've been seeing each other, and none of the text messages, and IRL encounters between you two suggested a lack of interest? They get pissed when a guy that they don't want to see anymore, probably because they are after pursuing a less available man, keeps texting them to know if they're free, but have neglected to inform the lad that they are not interested anymore. They get their friends and coworkers to gossip about this kid for enacting the sin of trying to follow up, on what was formally identified as a great date, and those were her words in the first place.

Let's just be honest here. These women get a lot of attention so they're after the men who do not give them this attention. 6 months down the line, they resent a man for not telling them that he loved them, not being thoughtful in general, not having done any grand romantic gestures to be with them, but it's so laughable to us, because we know that odds are; if we were acting in such a way at the beginning of the relationship. If we told you how we truly felt about you when we first met, you'd be dating someone else anyway.

LewisCross · 2018-04-12T15:40:28+00:00

Which are the traits for which you "despise" women? Particularly with respect to the sex vs. commitment polarity?

I wouldn't call it "despise". I'd call it "better understanding" and "acceptance", more or less.

--women are willing to lie and cheat and fraud their way into commitment with less attractive men

--women fuck around as younger women not because they want to get married; but because they want to fuck around. And they lie about this and put a pretty face on it, and say "but I just wanted to be a wife and mother!" No you didn't. What you wanted to do was fuck around as long as you could, until you couldn't anymore. Just be honest about that and own it.

My problem is not that the women who fuck around are fucking around. By all means, if you want to be a slut, be a slut. But be honest about it and don't lie about it and make full disclosure at all appropriate times. Fly that slut flag and fly it high and proud. My problem is that they lie about it and cover it up and put lipstick on the pig.

--Reserving the hot monkey sex for the hot hookups and not for the husbands. Treating husband differently from your hot hookups. I'll have whatever you gave Alpha McGorgeous and Frank Fratboy. Whatever you gave them, you need to give me. If you will not, I will presume you are not as attracted to me as you are/were to them.

Which are the ones that stopped making you feel disgusted as soon as you understood that even though women and men basically want the same from each other,

I don't understand this. Women and men don't want the same things from each other.

they have fundamentally different priorities and thus their strategies in mating vary, and that was seems to be character weakness and thus despicable is in fact just the result of these different priorities?

The different priorities lead women to dishonesty and fraud. It IS character weakness when one chooses to lie and deceive to accomplish those ends. The problem here is that the jig was up a long time ago with men - of course men lie to achieve their ends. It wasn't until pretty fairly recently that we would acknowledge women can be shitty people too, that women lie and cheat and defraud, and that women use subterfuge and deceit to achieve their ends as well.

The different priorities are not despicable, nor are they character weakness. It's the LYING and the DECEIT and the FRAUD that are character weaknesses. Women right here on this board openly advocate that women should lie to their husbands about their Ns. I think that's disgusting - when I advocate that men lie, I am excoriated up one side and down the other. But when women advocate that women lie, that's A-OK.

Is there something as "women go so low in their quest for commitment that they just pretend to enjoy sex" and does it have the potential to raise disgust with respect to those women that pretend?

Yes, I've known women to do this. And yes, it raises disgust. And it can and does blow up in their faces.

Are there more of those "weaknesses"?

--acting like little girls and playing the role of "sweet lil ol' girl" and damsel in distress to garner sympathy and to get men to white knight for them. Women routinely play the "don't hit me, I'm a girl!" game, while pulling out (figurative) shotguns and going after men with both barrels and fists flying.

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daveofmars · 2018-04-13T01:14:34+00:00

I know I'm going to sound like a blooper for this, but off the top of my head I don't despise any particular trait that is unique to women. I do despise deception and malice, and women can be deceptive and malicious.

What I feel is not necessarily disgust but instead a primal rage when I hear about a woman cucking her husband. I understand that women want good genes for their kids - we all do. I understand that sometimes they just want to get their rocks off. I understand that Chads can be sexy. But what disgusts me is her complete lack of empathy for him. It's not just about putting resources toward another kid, it's the fact that he has become an unwilling and unknowing genetic dead end.

MisterJose · 2018-04-13T23:43:17+00:00

The sense of irrationality and inconsistency is what drives me up the wall the most. Chris Rock once quipped that men can't win arguments with women because men have a need to make sense.

Growing up, my mother was a poor role model for women in this regard - She wanted respect, but couldn't handle anything. She wanted to call the shots, but couldn't make decisions. She would have random bouts of emotional instability. I would get into arguments with her where I would be as fair as a human being could be, "I hear what you're saying, and I'm sorry if I made you feel bad about such-and-such. From my perspective, the problem arises because..." but there was nothing you could do, because if anything you said made her feel bad, you were therefore wrong. I ultimately learned the futility of trying to reason with her, and that there was no walk soft enough not to crack the eggshells.

Another example is a friend I had in college. Ardent feminist, and the worst possible spokeswoman for feminism ever. Everything had to be done around her feelings. Everything had to be softened so as not to bother her. She would preach equality, but failed to live up to anything remotely resembling an equally capable human being.

I don't despise women for wanting commitment. If that's what's important to you, then it is what it is. I just think it's unfortunate that people looking for connections with each other are doomed to cross purposes so often.

But...if that IS the case, then one simply has to see heterosexual relationships as often both a compromise, and a quid-pro-quo of sorts. No one should be upset or surprised that a lot of guys went about presenting women with the friendship and loyalty and attention women seemed to value more, in the hope that maybe they would get what they valued more back. AND, if we're telling guys that they're horrible for doing this and they should stop, no one should be again surprised if men start simply expressing what they want.

There's a sense within feminism that the job is done when everyone thinks and values as they do, and those who do not think like women should be shamed and demeaned and told they are horrible human beings until they fall in line. In a result that should have been a surprise to absolutely nobody, this makes a lot of people hurt and angry and resentful, and only deepens the lack of mutual empathy that we want maximize between the sexes. Which...is a really terrible idea, but in keeping with above, whenever I suggest this to women in any form, I'M the bad guy.

Title	Different priorities and different types of disgust.
Author	DelicateDevelopment
Upvotes	21
Comments	300
Date	April 12, 2018 2:20 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8bqi3u/different_priorities_and_different_types_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/different-priorities-and-different-types-of.262896 https://theredarchive.com/post/262896

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