Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?

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Currentlycurious1 · 2024-03-26T07:13:35+00:00

I haven't seen the wall be a real thing. The percentage of attractive women above 36 plummets, but the ones who are that old who are still attractive still retain most of their power in sexual and dating markets.

Fun_Push7168 · 2024-03-26T12:33:15+00:00

Well, I can tell you this. Male thirst is ever present. Women who are just not overweight can pretty much pull whatever they want throughout their 30s and early 40s. The difference is that it shifts far more to casual.

The majority of interest from guys that have any appeal comes from either young guys wanting the cougar experience or guys in the same age range who they would say aren't serious but in reality are just more self confident and much quicker to drop them for any sort of bullshit behavior or anything less than perfect. Guys are pickier about who they will be in a relationship with.

On the other side though to be honest a lot of these women aren't really serious. Most have been married, have kids if they wanted them, established themselves as well. Their attitude floats between wanting a fairly casual relationship that they take very slowly/ maybe I'll commit if I happen across a really perfect guy and maybe I'll just stay single/alone. Of course their idea of single is still just having a series of casual relationships and the realities of being actually alone seem distant enough they romanticize it as a good thing and think they may prefer it.

That said ime they are far more willing to also put in some effort and maybe forgive things they wouldn't in the past. Though possibly because some of those things don't matter anymore. She doesn't need financial support, doesn't need a good dad, doesn't even need to get along great except for a few days a month.

I think the wall is probably felt mostly in the shift towards casual and thusly only felt heavily by women who never did marry or have kids because they were waiting for that perfect guy. Otherwise many women are totally fine with that shift and looking for more casual types of relationships than ever before.

The women I find mostly want to take it easy, spend a day or two a week together and go on about our separate lives.

They're also more forward.

It's much easier for me now at 41 than almost ever, definitely got better from mid thirties up. Idk how much of that is the wall for women and how much is that I just managed to stay a pretty good looking man and I'm tall and fit. Could be just as much the percentage of attractive men have dropped off a lot too, letting me sort of float upward through the years.

Zabadoodude · 2024-03-26T08:31:53+00:00

I'm 35. The wall is tied to what you're doing and how you take care of yourself. If you stay fit, have a decent career and live an interesting life, you will delay or even reverse the wall.

I had success dating in high school and university. In my mid 20's I became out of shape, and took a few years to find my stride in my career. I had hit the wall. Then in my 30's I got back in shape, got success in my business, got involved in more interesting hobbies, and suddenly the wall wasn't real anymore.

Tobor_Xes240 · 2024-03-26T16:38:51+00:00

I’ve been a perennial “supporting character” in most of my mixed-gender social groups. I go to good concerts, hang in good bars, and am attractive enough to reflect well on you when you need a wingman or platonic date. However, prior to 37-38, I was the guy that women approached when they were curious about my taller, whiter, Chad-lier friends.

Cut to NYE 2023, a Wall-adjacent acquaintance and I struck up a drunken convo at a party. I’d known of her for years, watching her slide from a stout kind of cute to decidedly pre-diabetic. Like clockwork, she shot her shot with me.

How have we not hung out before?

Because now you weigh more than I do, I thought to myself. Lovely human, regardless - nobody’s perfect.

tadL · 2024-03-26T06:56:05+00:00

Just my experience:

Till 17 it was easy to get girls. Cheapest lines worked. No experience on both sides. Testing things is what I think it was

Between 18 and the wall things got challenging. They search for the optimal partner is what I think happens.

Wall and later: it's even easier than ever before. They just don't want to be alone.

Not judging at all. That's how I experience it.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-03-26T13:15:20+00:00

What actually happens is attractive people tend stay attractive, even if they are older. Sure she might not be the 23 year old bikini competitor she used to but now she’s the hot AF milf at the kids soccer games distracting the refs any time she bends over in her yoga pants to get orange slices for the players (that was a clear offsides, ref! Ref!!) They also tend to be married, and divorced they tend to have plenty of options because a ton of older single man wants her cause she’s both hot and mature and the younger men want to live out a casual hookup for a fantasy come true.

AidsVictim · 2024-03-26T07:57:49+00:00

There are still a fair amount of women 35+ that are pretty attractive but they are much more obviously a minority. I think a lot of what causes "confusion" in how men vs women perceive the wall is that women take it as some absolute drop from attractive to not, while men tend to categorize women as pre or post wall (i.e. they lost the "youthful look" that gives women "free points" in attractiveness) while still finding women plenty of women attractive post wall. There aren't any women that escape the effects of aging on skin and hair by mid 30's (although skilled women can hide it very well), but that doesn't mean women can't be attractive post wall.

As for behaviour, women shift from primarily looks based attraction to a more "balanced" approach where career, agreeableness, dependability (basically the previously "boring" traits) rise in importance. This is good for men that have their life mostly in order but are more average looking or of low social status and worse for men that are aging out of "pretty boy" looks (or just losing their hair or fitness or whatever) and don't have much going on for them elsewise. High value men continue to live their life with their pick of women.

As another poster said there's a lot of women that just don't want to be alone at that point and will "compromise" on a lot of stuff just to have a guy that is there for them consistently. On the other hand there's a fair amount of women that still standards that "trap" them in singlehood.

Personally my (early-mid) 20's would have been a lot more enjoyable and romantically successful if women behaved more like they do at 35. But it is what it is.

CraftyCooler · 2024-03-26T08:07:21+00:00

My personal observations:

Attractive women get attention from guys every age. My wife is 38 and guys in their late 20s are interested to date her, my friend turned 37 last year and her fiance(!) is 28 yo, 6'2 Chad, she is not even that good-looking, but she is a very fit nerd, and the guy is the same type.

I think that only thing that can make it hard for a woman is having mental health problems. This is a magnet for creeps and repellent for guys looking for serious relationship.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-03-26T07:25:36+00:00

I just turned 40. This has been my experience since I started dating at 12.

The school years were easy and nice. We're all too young to care about the bigger things in life.

University years is where it got harder. I was in engineering school. 9 guys for every girl. Money and status starts to become important. The most attractive girls were being selective of the hot guys or the guys with fancy cars, etc.

Early career years were an eye opener. Girls that would have never given me the time of the day started hitting me up when they saw I was going, career-wise. I became quite successful with women. I was the known office fuckboy, I bedded the hottest girls in an office of 60 people, including the assistant to the manager. I married one of those.

I partnered up early 30's with my now wife when she was 23. But up until recently I just kept getting hit on left and right by women +- 10 years. In some weirder cases women started sending me selfies on LinkedIn.

Seeing women around me, the wall is unrelentingly present. Women have super high standards and men are either not meeting them or, if meeting them, they are having none of that shit.

Biiiiig disclaimer: I think many of these women have always been unsuitable for long term relationships due to personality/mental issues, but they had the benefit of the youth, which now they don't have.

Some cases:

My exes who divorced have remained single or casually dating. My ex wife never managed to find a man to start a family with.

My wife's best friend can't find a man and she's depressed about it. She's the kind of woman that says video games are for manchildren and that all men are pigs, so that's going well for her. Oh well.

I heard this morning a girl I know tried to commit suicide because she can't find a man. This is your typical plastic Bimbo. I'm sure there are thousands of men out there, just not what she wants.

Hot girl from uni who rejected me came back a few times over the years asking to connect. Yep still single.

And of course a good bunch of 4s and 5s I know that are chronically single and searching for men. No one cares really.

The only women I have seen getting married after 30 were either 1) extremely attractive 2) relentless on finding and locking that bluepilled simp that thinks he won the lottery - I was one of those once. 3) finding a guy much older than them.

Guys that are more assertive and dominant, as long as they keep their looks, are going for the younger girls.

AreOut · 2024-03-26T09:02:05+00:00

it's highly individual, I have a friend who was a Chad in his 20s and pulled very hot girls for casual, but started drinking heavily and thereafter married because his family told him so, now he is overweight&divorced

I had only a couple of LTRs during my 20s and the only casual I could pull would be a drunk bimbo, but after discovering TRP I glowed up in my late 30s, now at 41 I look way better than in my 20s (except my hair got a couple of greys but I dye it), dress better, have lot of money(compared to my broke 20s), go on a trip through Europe twice a month and have girlfriends I could only dream of when I was in my 20s

yes, those girls that didn't want me back then but now try to connect do make me feel a bit schadenfreude I admit, it's also crazy how delulu women in their late 30s early 40s can be

raldabos · 2024-03-26T15:23:20+00:00

I'm not 35 but 33.

The amount of attractive women above 30 plummets. Women who don't take care of themselves easily look 10 years older.

The small amount of attractive women above 30 are taken.

However for men, this is a net positive (getting attention from 0 women in my 20's to having a couple of women's attention, even thought they aren't 10s it's nice).

Yes, some of those women were considerable younger than me (10+years). No never really did anything with them but I could have easily date them.

If you find a attractive, single women who is in their 30s, they usually have some sort of noticable mental issue.

Take that as you will.

vjIIS · 2024-03-26T12:28:47+00:00

I know a lot of people mention attractiveness differences in older women, but what bothered me more was their personality/baggage.

I've found women in their 20s or early 30s are more likely to be optimistic, fun, bubbly, open-minded, caring, and I find them to generally be much better to be around.

Women that are 40+ are much more likely to be jaded, arrogant, cynical, closed-minded, and generally not as enjoyable for me. Of course the following things don't apply to all 40+ women, but I've found them more likely with older women:

They have more emotional baggage from past relationships. This is actually a big deal. Sometimes it causes them to be more cynical.
I had a 40+ woman who was so arrogant and was sure she was correct on some topics that she knew nothing about that I had years of experience in. She was so closed-minded about it. She was insufferable. I've generally found younger women are more open-minded.
I've had more experiences with 40+ women where they're less willing to offer to split the check at restaurants and they just take me paying for granted. Had one where not only did she not offer to pay, she also didn't even thank me for paying any of the 4 times we went out. Had one suggest I take her to a show where tickets were $150+ each. I didn't care so much about the money, but it was just kind of rude.

Examples of 40+ women I know:

I have a platonic friend who is now 40+ who is much more chronically single now than historically. I was surprised to hear she now considers dating previously married guys with kids, even though she never went for them in the past. I think she realizes her options aren't so good anymore.
Have a different platonic friend who is now 40+ with a college degree who used to date white collar educated guys, but recently I was surprised to hear she was now dating a guy without a college degree who works retail. They often can't afford to do many things together. Surprised she's lowered her standards so much.

funfacts_82 · 2024-03-26T08:04:59+00:00

There is a woman, a friend of my cosuins wife and she recently turned 32. Dated a guy way out of her league and he left/abandoned her and she kept saying he is immature, wasted her time, narcissistic etc.

Last year we went for a few drinks in the city center and her age came up. She was like: "oh i am only 31 i have enough time" the usual shit women will tell you at that age. So i told her if she wants a family she has to find a man, vet him take some time to get to know him and then have a kid or two. So that puts you close to 40. There isnt a lot of time left.

Fast forward a year later: She found a great guy and sticks to him like a rubber band after our talk. Hes not as attractive and also not as wealthy as the other guy.

THE WALL

WilliamWyattD · 2024-03-26T07:16:55+00:00

The Wall ultimately refers to a biological reality. Men are attracted to both beauty and neoteny (youthful lookingness) in women. As women lose it, male attraction both declines and changes in character. A 40 year old man is attracted to a hot 40-year -old woman. But he doesn't have the same kind of overall romantic, wanna die for you, wanna write songs about you, infatuation that beauty PLUS youthfulness incites in a man.

But what the Wall means to dating is very contextual. If you are British landed Gentry in the 1700s, and as a woman you hit the Wall, you really fucking hit it. Older men are marrying far down in age. You are competing with 20 year olds.

But in a culture where women don't wanna date much older guys, intergenerational competition among women is limited. So the impact is much less. In this environment, assuming she is relatively well preserved, the Wall sort of evens out dating a bit. And it curbs some of the male excesses that happen when men get hit over the head by peak female beauty and neoteny. I wouldn't say raw SMV equals out between men and women at the median, but it gets closer to even. In many ways, this may all be for the good, clearing away some insanity to allow ground for more mature forms of love to grow faster and on more sloild footing.

GhettoJamesBond · 2024-03-26T08:35:50+00:00

I also want to share my experiences with the wall. I didn't want to write it on the post because I didn't want to steer anyone's comments.

I remember some of the girls we really wanted were just impossible to deal with and nobody was good enough for them. At times I really wished I could just pull them aside as a friend and tell them that it's not going to get any better than this.

Now a few years later most of them that I still know are looking very sorry. Now they want the guys they rejected before. My ex girl thought I was gonna save her, girls that got away have tried to get with me now, and all my friends are telling me the same thing.

The main thing I noticed is that now that we are more successful and the girls we used to want have hit the wall, we feel that now we bring more to the table and they just don't bring enough for it to be worth it for us. Now that we had to climb that ladder we want something nore then a has been in return. We bring money and status and they just mostly bring baggage. Me and my friends also Don't want to share our success with women that didn't want us before.

It really hits the average girl next door type the hardest. These were some of the girls guys wanted the most because they were supposed to be gf material. The ones that ate still single really have nothing to offer anymore.

Green-Quantity1032 · 2024-03-26T13:49:27+00:00

Massive generalizations ahead, These are averages so definitely exact ages and behaviors will vary:

They don’t hit a wall, they climb a hill.

Around 28-29 marriage-pressure is building up and on average they seem to try-hard at getting serious relationships going (they know biologically and socially time is of the essence).

By 31-32 they’re kinda disillusioned so they’re less stressed but also less innocent about it - which is smarter but less cute.

They’re still able to attract hot guys, but a bit less able to make it stick.

Those who really kept their faces, bodies and mind in shape are pretty much still good to go and still have their choice - especially among men who are 3-4 years older, which women tend to prefer anyway.

So yeah - wall isn’t there if she maintains herself, especially considering women tend to change their preferences to accommodate their age.

Hill - yes, wall - no.

Also - men still want younger women but are less able to get them, so if anything men’s hill is harsher

boom-wham-slam · 2024-03-26T13:52:47+00:00

I'm 37. The average and above average 37 year old is undateable imo. Even the exceptional ones are only good for fwb. Or a second marriage or something.

For example my friend is 39 and she is a professional model. She is hot, I fuck her, she has kids.... so undateable.

In theory 99.9% of women my own age are undateable except by much older men.

But I can get young women easily. So that's the other part of the wall. If people only dated their own age the wall wouldn't exist. But since many young women date older, I'd be a moron to choose a 35 yo single mom who could lose 15 lbs when a 25 yo in perfect shape with no kids also would date me. Women's behavior is what creates the wall basically.

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TheDerInDisorder · 2024-03-26T15:15:29+00:00

It hasn't been too bad. I started eating more fruit, and veggies to keep my pp strong, and fight back the love handles.

grown_folks_talkin · 2024-03-26T15:21:30+00:00

I’ve only really observed like the wall with women around 35 looking to have a child. I ran across many in OLD who seemed to be searching desperately.

Other than that, women become more confident in that they want who they want and don’t feel the need to breadcrumb those they don’t. This is almost certainly tied to their having less “icks” as they’re not spending time with dudes they’re only marginally attracted to.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2024-03-26T15:23:57+00:00

The wall doesn’t exist. The disparity between male and female sexual desirability is greatest in the 20s and shrinks with age, but women are always more sexually valuable than men. Always.

harmonica2 · 2024-03-26T08:32:57+00:00

When it comes to alpha males who don't want to settle down and keep getting all the women for sex, do they ever have a wall one day they will regret not being able to lock down a high SMV woman he could have had when he was younger that he could not get at an older age?

Or do alpha males never have a wall, and they can just keep getting many women in rotation until they are too old to have functional sex basically? I am talking about guys who are not rich celebrities though, so not celebrity alpha males.

obviousredflag · 2024-03-26T08:48:24+00:00

Just because it's so subjective and how it's basically universally accepted among guys but yet women here denies it even exists.

But people talk about different effects of the wall. First, there is no wall, it's a gradual change. You don't "hit" it , you slowly slide down the hill of desirability, in your own pace, depending on your individual setup. Secondly, getting less attention doesn't mean no attention and certainly not having no dating options that satisfy you. The wall is an incel concept invented with the goal to influence women in their 20s to choose men that are not interesting in the phase before settling down into family life, with the threat of rejecting them later in life. AS IF! Look at committed relationship statistics for men and women in their 30s. Highest rate of pairings. And the myth that those couples are all unhappy is also debunked by studies.

Are you seeing women you know hit the wall? How has it changed things? Do your non Red Pill friends notice anything is different? How is it affecting dating?

If i reword that to "are you seeing women who are older than 30", then no. At 40 years of age, I don't even have a woman who is older than 30 in my close social circle, which contains ~10 women. The last time i had a woman over 30 in my close social circle was when i was 32 and my then gf was 34. But not because of the wall, but because of change that happened in me at that age. Since then i only had gfs with large age gaps and casually date for even larger age gaps. Every time i tried to date someone over the age of 33, i quickly realized we are not compatible and i don't feel good with them. And i suspect they are mostly feeling the same way. My optimum age for LTR material has shifted from ~22 to ~27 over the last 5 years. This makes me confident, that my partner getting into her thirties will not be a problem for me, as i seem to just prefer an age gap, not an absolute age value. So, in 5 years i will be 45 and she will be 32, and i don't think that "the wall" will make me want to break up or divorce her.

My male friends are not 35+yet, but those who are between 30 and 34 do have girlfriends or wives who are below 30. So they didn't notice anything yet. Nobody of them ever dated a woman above 35 to my knowledge.

wtknight · 2024-03-26T12:30:42+00:00

There’s not a real big difference if one is either married or dating age appropriately and not trying to hit on much younger women. The half plus seven rule likely applies if a man takes care of himself.

It might be frustrating to some men to know that they can’t attract the youngest, hottest women with looks alone, but older men can still do it with money, especially if they visit poorer countries.

As for the women I know who have hit the wall, most accept it and don’t need vast amounts of attention from men. Random, physical health concerns as one ages are much more significant than psychological “walls” for both sexes.

RedditAlt999 · 2024-03-26T15:00:29+00:00

I'm 36 and my cut off for dating is 29. Women over 30 seem either jaded or want to rush into the relationship to marriage & kids. Women in their 20s typically look better and are more pleasant to be around. Sure they're more dramatic sometimes, but I can deal with that over nagging and rushing.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-03-26T12:38:11+00:00

It's not a thing. It's a really sad scare tactic used to try and goad women into relationships. Thankfully, it's far less effective than it used to be, that's why the age where women supposedly hit the wall keeps rising.

SillyMushroomTip · 2024-03-26T13:55:28+00:00

Not 35 but 31

Hooked up and dated a lot of older women in my mid 20s so this is my anecdotal experience. The wall is just that point when once they hit 30 their beauty starts dropping off and marriage is less likely to occur. Simply she will never be as pretty as she was in her 20s.

Sure are their attractive older women absolutely but usually they are bitter, cold, or just plain a bitch to deal with.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-03-26T15:43:00+00:00

I'm 6', white and fit. So my experience may be different from other guys. I could pass for late 20s due to exercise and a good diet. I have some hair thinning on top and some grays that could give me away that I'm older but generally people assume I'm younger.

I've actually talked about this stuff with a lot of the girls I've been messaging. Not "the wall" exactly but just that men tend to date younger and why and women seem to unanimously agree that men age better than women do. I mostly aim for 20-28 year old women. And I don't like to think I'm biased, I rate women fairly; but when I look at women my age, they always look like 5-10 years older than me.

Title	Question for older guys 35+. What is your experience with the wall?
Author	GhettoJamesBond
Upvotes	0
Comments	188
Date	March 26, 2024 6:35 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1bo14pw/question_for_older_guys_35_what_is_your/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-older-guys-35-what-is-your-experience.1513071 https://theredarchive.com/post/1513071

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