Why does everything need to be about race and gender nowadays? It's not like the USA has a history of racism, sexism, slavery and homophobia. It's fantastic that some old person in Alabama decided that rape victims aren't allowed to get abortions. Bodily autonomy is good, except if it's a the body of a woman then it's bad.

[–]shitbeer 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]shitbeer 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EsixTwentyOne-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]A_Rampaging_Hobo0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EsixTwentyOne1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lilou05-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EsixTwentyOne3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lilou051 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]EsixTwentyOne3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]Franfran2424 -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]shinigamiscall 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424-4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CantStumpIWin3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]A_Rampaging_Hobo 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Franfran24241 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Franfran24241 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Detallado1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NormalMessage-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]iVah1d1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]ScathingThrowaway -10 points-9 points-8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]xr3llx 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ScathingThrowaway 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Shenaniganz08 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]inzyte 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JohnnyJohnCowboyMan 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 95 points96 points97 points 7 years ago (111 children) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR__BEST__PM 76 points77 points78 points 7 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

[–]Schaatur1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link

It's because they take the jokes about the extreme libertarian right (see /r/politicalcompassmemes for good examples) and apply them to all libertarians, or even worse they actually believe the jokes because that's all the exposure they've had to libertarians.

[–]kjm1123490 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AngryNewman 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LamiaMiia 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PhallicReason 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]brallipop-3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotePayable6 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “private businesses to build roads”. To a certain extent, they already do. The government contracts with private companies to build them. Some roads though, are made completely by private companies. Think roads for subdivisions and malls. We are also starting to see P3 (public private partnerships) where a government will state that it wants a road built from X to Y, and companies will put proposals together on how to get it done, then the government will pick the best one. The govt will then pay the road off like a mortgage, or allow the company who built the road to toll it for X years, and then turn it over to the govt.

Theoretically, there would be nothing stopping a private company from building a road from New York to LA, but it would need all the land and would need to get all the appropriate permits before it could. With that said, the govt will always be the one controlling the major projects.

[–]brallipop-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotePayable2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]comrade-jim5 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]brallipop2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are a non-player.

Self-benched player.

You do not achieve victory by declaring penalties.

Tim Ferris did in martial arts.

Referees cannot win and you are not a referee anyway.

You’re right, I’m just the owner.

Explain why you won't click a link.

Link doesn’t work, we discussed this. Even if it did, I’m sure reading someone’s regurgitated brain vomit would not be beneficial to me in any way.

Explain why your lack of a stated viewpoint is a fault in my argument.

Want my viewpoint?

I believe the only reason government should exist is to prevent total anarchy, and that the government should only involve itself in a legislative process pertaining to that job and that job alone.

Deregulate everything, and let the people do what they want with minimal interference. That’s how we get money out of politics, by eliminating the politics.

Explain why you won't click links until I prove I am a true Scotsman, or rather a try Lagoman.

There are certain places I will open my views to new ideas in the political spectrum, which is in the presence of those who control the entire board.

Anyone else’s say on the topic is irrelevant to me because they don’t hold all the facts of reality.

[–]brallipop0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I appreciate your responses, thank you.

Self-benched player.

I feel this is a very insightful label. I will argue that no matter the circumstances or behavior of any individual, all people affect the game, all people are "participants." Any object on the pitch becomes an extension of it.

You’re right, I’m just the owner.

Virtue signaling, didn't expect that.

I believe the only reason government should exist is to prevent total anarchy, and that the government should only involve itself in a legislative process pertaining to that job and that job alone.

What is total anarchy? Is it being charged $1,790 monthly for medicine? Is it being forced to use a men's bathroom when you live your life as a woman? Is it underfunding the VA in the face of all time veteran suicide rates? Is it allowing private capital to burden those seeking education? I argue that exploitation is a very prominent form of anarchy that is currently present in America; the system allows for all this legally but if the law isn't for you it can be like it isn't there at all.

Deregulate everything, and let the people do what they want with minimal interference. That’s how we get money out of politics, by eliminating the politics.

The people will then be thralls to those currently moneyed and empowered. Minimal interference from government, which we all have a say in. Deregulate everything and the next day minimum wage would be $0, health coverage would vanish, everyone who is vulnerable would be immediately squeezed. To even entertain such a notion would require a total wealth redistribution/inclusion and who knows what else, and I feel comfortable assuming you don't support any such act. Ideals cannot be haphazardly applied, they wouldn't even function.

Again, please click:

Always A Bigger Fish

The Origins of Conservatism

[–]WadinginWahoo2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

no matter the circumstances or behavior of any individual, all people affect the game

Agreed.

Virtue signaling

More like self description, but ok.

What is total anarchy

Total absence of government.

Is it being charged $1,790 monthly for medicine?

Nope, make your own medicine though it’ll be cheaper.

Is it being forced to use a men's bathroom when you live your life as a woman?

If you were born with a penis, use the men’s. If you were born with a vagina, use the woman’s.

This one is very simple. Even preschoolers understand the concept.

Is it underfunding the VA in the face of all time veteran suicide rates?

No need for armed forces other than the coast guard, at least nowadays. Abolish the VA and stop fighting putting boots on the ground for oil.

Is it allowing private capital to burden those seeking education?

That’s called liberty, because everyone in America can seek education without wanting the validation of a degree.

I argue that exploitation is a very prominent form of anarchy that is currently present in America

I used Merriam Webster’s definition of anarchy earlier, that is the absence of government. Exploitation, in whatever you’re referring to, is not an absence of government.

Non-existent argument you got there.

Deregulate everything and the next day minimum wage would be $0, health coverage would vanish, everyone who is vulnerable would be immediately squeezed.

Exactly, don’t be vulnerable.

Capitalism is survival of the fittest; it always has been and it always will be. Might as well expedite the process that government tend to drag out.

require a total wealth redistribution/inclusion and who knows what else, and I feel comfortable assuming you don't support any such act.

None of that is necessary, just wipe the slate clean of everything done by federal and state governments after the ratification of our constitution/bill of rights and let the rest of the dominos fall into place on their own.

[–]brallipop0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pHbasic -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pHbasic0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 30 points31 points32 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Genericusername29142 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mtitan1 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Genericusername29142 -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR__BEST__PM 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mister_Bloodvessel 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cameronbates11 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gregorofthehillpeopl1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]itislaboeuf 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DrudfuCommnt -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DesOttselPPD TESTER. PLEASE IGNORE!! 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatEconGuy1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Alasakan_Bullworm1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]theCheesecake_IsALie1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]hisgrossness1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ThomasSowell_Alpha1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]paracelsus231 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The possession of child porn wasn't illegal until the 1970s in America. Making it (child abuse) and selling it (child exploitation) was illegal, but possessing it wasn't. It was viewed as no different than photos of a murder, or photos of a drug deal. Evidence of someone else committing a crime.

It was narrowly agreed to make possession illegal on the logic that catching people in the act of producing or selling it would be too difficult, and that by publishing the consumers demand would decrease, reducing child abuse.

But it also created a situation where information was illegal - which had never before been seen in a free society outside of classified military secrets. It wasn't a huge deal until the internet. Now, you can accidentally, or even unknowingly (hackers, viruses) come into possession of this criminal information.

For people concerned about the overreaching authority of government, the idea that someone can "download a crime onto your computer" is scary as hell. This isn't just hypothetical - several people have been arrested under this exact circumstance, only to be later found victims of hackers or viruses. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33778733/ns/technology_and_science-security/t/framed-child-porn-pc-virus/.

Consequently, some people think that the government needs to take a step back here, remembering the old adage "it's better for ten guilty men to go free than one innocent man go to prison".

This complex argument gets distilled down into "libertarians support child molestation".

[–]JawTn10670 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mingusitis 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. Are libertarians still for all this? Seems like anti government but have no issues with corporations coming in to put the squeeze on the American people.

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]Ayn_Rand_Paul 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]mingusitis 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WadinginWahoo 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]The69thBrokage 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]The69thBrokage1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Funmachine 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiorzol 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tiorzol1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DesOttselPPD TESTER. PLEASE IGNORE!! 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SoundOfDrums1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]mingusitis1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform. I’m curious how much of this stuff are you anti government big corporate people for?

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.” “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.” “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.” “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.” “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.” “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.” “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.” “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.” “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.” “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.” “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.” “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.” “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.” “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.” “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.” “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.” “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.” “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.” “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.” “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.” “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.” “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.” “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.” “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

[–]scyth3s -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kn0thingIsTerrible 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]EdgarFrogandSam 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EdgarFrogandSam 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]EdgarFrogandSam 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EdgarFrogandSam 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Uzrathixius -23 points-22 points-21 points 7 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]only_bc_4chan_isdown 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tionanny1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Boodikii1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]crnext 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FuckHarambe2016 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]HisPopeness 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FuckHarambe2016 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR__BEST__PM 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThesAndman6672 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hehenheim88 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OneMe2RuleUAll1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Red-Lantern 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]ManaFlip -9 points-8 points-7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Footballandtrucks 19 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]pieman74141 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ManaFlip1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Iagi1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mingusitis-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SodiumSpam 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]atrusvalens 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Electro-Ninja1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thetewi1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]aleksi-ivanov 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]aleksi-ivanov -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS-5 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GroovingPict -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]BainzXoXo 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kn0thingIsTerrible 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here in the US, there are two key demographics: The authoritarians, and the libertarians.

The authoritarians are the majority group, and believe that big government is the solution to all of society’s woes. Both the democrats and republicans are authoritarian parties, they just disagree on the method and goals of authoritarian control and suppression.

Libertarians are the minority opposition groups, and are all extremely diverse. The only unifying thing is a belief that at least one system of government currently in place (regardless of who is in control, which is profoundly distinct from the authoritarians) is unjustifiable.

Most libertarians accept their permanent minority status, and instead act as special interest groups aligned with their personal priorities. The bulk of Americans fall into this category and are exceptionally single issue voters.

[–]GroovingPict-5 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex5 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BainzXoXo1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Way to be open minded there, buddy.

But seriously, is it any wonder that so many distrust the US Government? I mean, you've heard of the United States right? We're pretty famous for having an overbearing and awful government that kills people all over the world (including in its own borders), and rightfully draws the worlds ire because of it. We jail the highest percentage of our populace than any other society in history (and a lot of that is for people enjoying a plant in their private business), purposely limit commerce and wonder why the economy sucks and there's no economic mobility, we spend ridiculous amounts of money we will never have, our health care system sucks because it's a bizarre closed market system where regulatory barriers prevent proper competition from entering the market and there's a large price fixing scheme between doctors and insurance companies that was basically cemented into place because of federal regulations.

But yeah, sure, I should totally let the federal government have more power and I should totally trust it more.

[–]scyth3s-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Minimum wage in short is bad, and doesn't benefit workers like you probably think it does. Not the top of my list to deregulate, but I don't care for it.
This is about as broad of a category as you could name. Regulations to do what? A lot of these aren't inherently bad, but I'd imagine you'd largely have to take them on a case by case basis.
Subsidizing should almost never happen. Look at what us subsidizing corn so much has done: A lot of our food is fucking awful for us because it all has the bad bits in corn because there's too much corn.
Nobody should ever have to be forced to either work for, or continue to pay someone for work just because people with guns say they do. This goes for no cause firings and your following bullet point.
Pollution laws might be a necessary evil because it effects water tables, and that's kind of essential. However, the EPA as it is doesn't really work well and it's stated goal is not its actual goal (see: the fact that we aren't primarily nuclear due to EPA red taping)

So, something I should point out though, is it's not that individual regulations sound bad on paper, it's that the net effect of so many is that it stifles the market. Most megacorps actually invite federal regulation and lobby for it because it benefits them more than it harms them, and they position these regulations as looking good on paper, so whoever suggests removing them sounds like a monster.

[–]scyth3s-4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SageLukahn3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

minimum wage

Set on a per state basis based on the poverty line in that state. The reduction in taxes that other libertarian policies would bring would lower the poverty line and increase individual's wealth and the standard of living.

safety regulations in the workplace

Regulated by private regulating bodies unless no regulating body exists, in which case State Intervention may be used to establish a regulatory body. If private bodies show themselves to be corrupt or incapable, government steps in. But unless there's a genuine need for the government to step in (such as a regulation resulting in death) , they stay out of regulating private businesses.

subsidizing certain industries (ie green energy)

If an industry can not sustain itself then there's not enough justification, need, or desire for such am industry. Green energy will be chosen by private individuals, businesses, and states when they are economically viable, not before.

Intervention in a free market has generally been shown to be undesirable and harmful for industries.

forcing business to serve everyone regardless of race/sex/etc (ie the gay wedding cake story)

It's a private business. Unless it holds a monopoly, there is no reason that Joe Bloggs can't refuse to sell to a gay couple (that went door to door until they found someone that didn't want to bake them a cake) just as Jane Doe shouldn't have to sell a baby dress to someone that is pro-life while she's pro-choice. The fall out of those individual choices will be the responsibility of the business owners. The market generally favours those who are concerned with the green in a customer's wallet rather thsn the opinions they hold.

emissions and pollution laws

Regulated on a per state basis using incentives and only resorting to punative measures when necessary. Telling a business they can't do something generally doesn't work. Showing them that doing the right thing is beneficial to them generally does. Also, emission and pollution regulations are going to affect urban and rural areas in very different ways. Heavy-handed regulation hurts small business owners more than it does large corporations.

That's my two cents anyway.

[–]Bronte942 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Set on a per state basis based on the poverty line in that state. The reduction in taxes that other libertarian policies would bring would lower the poverty line and increase individual's wealth and the standard of living.

This is laughable.

If private bodies show themselves to be corrupt or incapable, government steps in.

If? Fucking lol mate, we have a lot of history to see what happens when Gov has let business handle own safety. Some new form of black lung would make a resurgence within the decade. Again, that's a laughable claim.

If an industry can not sustain itself then there's not enough justification, need, or desire for such am industry. Green energy will be chosen by private individuals, businesses, and states when they are economically viable, not before.

Why put "economically viable" before the literal future of our ability to live on this planet? That is a problem that the free market simply is not equipped to solve.

It's a private business. Unless it holds a monopoly, there is no reason that Joe Bloggs can't refuse to sell to a gay couple (that went door to door until they found someone that didn't want to bake them a cake) just as Jane Doe shouldn't have to sell a baby dress to someone that is pro-life while she's pro-choice.

As long as it's not the housing or grocery industry, I'm ok with this. People generally shouldn't be forced to serve others.

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is laughable.

Yet you offered no explanation as to why you think it's laughable, nor your own policy position.

If? Fucking lol mate, we have a lot of history to see what happens when Gov has let business handle own safety. Some new form of black lung would make a resurgence within the decade. Again, that's a laughable claim.

You are aware that most regulatory bodies are independent organisations, right? In the absence of government intervention, independent regulators will crop up, as they already do, and ensure that those that do not meet their requirements (which are often more stringent than government controlled agencies), do not get their stamp of approval. The free market will handle the rest as unregulated businesses fail under poor standards.

Why put "economically viable" before the literal future of our ability to live on this planet? That is a problem that the free market simply is not equipped to solve.

Because the only way to have businesses adopt green energy is to make it economically viable. The alternative is making traditional energy be economically unviable.

As long as it's not the housing or grocery industry, I'm ok with this. People generally shouldn't be forced to serve others.

Well at least we agree on something!

[–]LotharVonPittinsberg 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChadLadPronouns 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fueryous1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ChadLadPronouns1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]benjick-5 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Hi_I_Am_God_AMA3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Phirk 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FierceDeity_ 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]friggandfrayed 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FierceDeity_ 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]friggandfrayed 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThouReaper 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hhhvgggvg 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]hhhvgggvg 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There weren't empires or really big armies on the stone age because of development reasons. There were both male and females driven hordes, depending on the territory.

It's obvious that you're late to the party and are pushing an agenda, keeping out of the equation that all groups at the time where undeveloped, independently of wether they were leaded by males or females.

You also keep out of of the picture that since then women haven't hold power or education (stopping them from being important in any way) except on some exceptions that had to prove to be way better than their colleagues.

Read a bit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_warfare

I'll bet you will say these are outliers and that it obv means women are idiots, but have an example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahhotep_I

[–]pd1591 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]justin2511 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Flavortex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]C19H21N3Os1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Flavortex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LaquaciousMute1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mormagils1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imaliberal1980 463 points464 points465 points 7 years ago (121 children) | Copy Link

[–]R____I____G____H___T 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]petchef 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]JawTn1067 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]petchef 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]JawTn1067 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]brech2000 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JawTn10673 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sorathecrow_ 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SopwithStrutter 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]petchef 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SopwithStrutter 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]NoLongerUsableName 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SopwithStrutter 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NoLongerUsableName 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BaconCircuit 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]sorathecrow_ 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BaconCircuit 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]comrade-jim -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Michelle_Johnson 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]comrade-jim -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Michelle_Johnson 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Triyntoloseit0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]comrade-jim -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bagelmakers 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]heresyourhardware 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]comrade-jim 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BusterCall4 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Michelle_Johnson1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SevFTW 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]s1rhaddock -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HKoftheForrest 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pikassassin 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]missedstake1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

Is it really sexist though? I feel like it’s safe to assume that a female governor would at least be invested in protecting the interests of other women.

As a man, I was definitely surprised to hear that the governor is a woman. I guess that makes me sexist. Or a cuck. Or a white knight. Oh well.

[–]scyth3s 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reverend_Vader 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Swarlolz 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trump4prezy 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]javis03171 points 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

You're so stupid it hurts

[–]Xzow 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]agree-with-you-6 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GPyleFan115 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]missedstake1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

That’s fair, except they’re really not babies til they’re born. In fact they’re not really much of anything until several weeks into pregnancy. I can understand the argument that it’s “murder” after the heart starts beating, but that doesn’t happen until 5 weeks or so into pregnancy.

And anyways, if this bill is really about “protecting” people, why does it specify there are no exceptions even for victims of rape? Why does it say nothing for the 11 year old girl who was molested and now, under this law, would be forced to live through 9 months of a constant and inescapable reminder of what happened to her? Only to have a severely traumatic experience at birth for both her and the child.

Or what about the child of that birth? If it somehow manages to survive it who’s going to care for it? The 11 year old? Her family? That child won’t have a good life. I know in a perfect world every time a baby is born the mother is instantly shown what a miracle she just experienced, and won’t do anything but love the child. But that’s not how reality works. There’s no turning lemons into lemonade in this situation. That child will he resented and unloved. And does it deserve that? No of course not. It didn’t choose to be born. It’s just as much a victim of rape as its mother.

[–]Randommook 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]AdmiralCrunchy -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Swarlolz 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]imaliberal1980 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ourplanetblows1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MissChievousJ1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThomasSowell_Alpha1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]easy_pie1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]its_probably_a_tumor0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]VanillaTortilla1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]mrchooch -82 points-81 points-80 points 7 years ago (69 children) | Copy Link

[–]KvvaX 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ClassifiedClothing 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AdmiralCrunchy 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]R____I____G____H___T 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AortaYT 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (61 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]jarinatorman 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it's too much of a problem, tbh.

Pick a spot where we're certain it's not a person, but where someone could still actually know that they're pregnant (such a window does exist). Then just pick a time.

You're right that there will be some arbitrariness to it, but I think picking a spot where women still have the right to an abortion, yet we're still certain there's isn't an actual human being killed, is a bigger step forward than doing nothing because of edge cases.

It's not so much that we're saying "after this day, it's a human. But the day before, it wasn't". Rather, we're saying "Well it's still probably not a human after this day, but we need to draw the line somewhere, and we're choosing to draw that line a bit conservatively to avoid actually killing a person".

I think of it the way I think of spending money on luxury goods. Could I spare $1.50 a day to get a coffee? Yeah. What about $5.00 for a fancy coffee? Less comfortable with that, but I'd be alright. Okay how about 10? No. That's too much.

At what point between $5 and $10 did it not become okay? Not really sure, but I'll make a cutoff at 5 so that I can still have some nice treats without going overboard.

Note: I don't actually spend $5 a day on coffee. I'm too poor for that.

[–]bobisbit 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]surobyk 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManOfDrinks 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManOfDrinks -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManOfDrinks 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I would say given that the vast majority of legislators who voted for the bill are likely both adamantly against life saving programs such as universal healthcare while also supporting the death penalty, therefore the argument that it's about preserving life is incredibly hypocritical

You could be right, but I usually try to steelman the views I disagree with, and I think the proper steelman argument would be that a small government philosophy is what stops them from desiring programs like universal health care.

I think a good analogy is the way libertarians view murder. Most libertarians are anti-murder, yet they are also opposed to government programs such as universal health care. Does this opposition to universal health care mean that they are actually pro-death? No; of course not. It just means that they have other philosophies that prevent them from running to the extremes with their anti-death views.

Note; I'm not making an argument in favor of libertarianism. I'm also in favor of universal health care. But I think one can oppose universal health care while still being logically consistent with an "anti-death" view.

IMO, the strongest argument against the 'pro-lifers' is that a ban on all forms of abortion is writing a strictly christian view (life begins at conception) into law. Thus, it's a violation of the separation of church and state.

[–]Ruggsii2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Smartless1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ManOfDrinks1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]smithshillkillsme-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

but I think it's quite reasonable to say that a woman should be allowed to choose what she wants with her own body.

So do you also feel that a man should be allowed to choose what he spends his money on? Not trying to play Gotcha, just testing the consistency of your views?

Because, right now women have the right to decide to have an abortion. Men do not have that right. So if my partner doesn't want a baby and I do, I have no say.

But let's switch it around. I don't want a baby but you do. Am I allowed to decide what happens to the fruits of my sperm? Do I have the right to tell you to have an abortion? No.

But I also don't have the right to decide to walk away from you and the child you had against my will. But in the reverse, the woman does.

So why do women get these rights that men don't have amd what makes that ok?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]penguininfidel 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Xzow 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]bobisbit1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not, but not all religions define life as beginning at conception. Judiasm teaches that life begins with breath, for one.

[–]Mu14st 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smartless-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Xzow2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBarkingGallery -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheBarkingGallery-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]razrmon 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AdmiralCrunchy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]spideybiggestfan1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Dramatic_Kiwi1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ulkesh_Naranek1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheNoobCakes1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GCMythix1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]paragon601 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSkipShorty1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BChart21 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blamethemeta1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imaliberal19801 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blamethemeta1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imaliberal19801 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blamethemeta1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imaliberal19801 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WisdomCostsTime1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gravelbeast1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]totallythebadguy1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CoffeeMetalandBone1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CherryBlossomStorm1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ReynardTheF0x1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]-InsertUsernameHere1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Cornshot1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mrchooch1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Red-Lantern 345 points346 points347 points 7 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]danald_tramp1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Outstanding move

[–]NoLongerUsableName 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TrueCause1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 115 points116 points117 points 7 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]crnext 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Red-Lantern 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Nagi21 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManaFlip 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rebelolemiss 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]rebelolemiss 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rebelolemiss 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SilentSuit 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NormalMessage -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]mrchooch -18 points-17 points-16 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]AssholeNeighborVadim 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FEV_Reject1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]mygrandmasayshi -11 points-10 points-9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ferocetis 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FEV_Reject1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bobknows271 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh wow, different people can say things that don't make sense when taken together. Profound.

[–]FiggleDee 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Xyon_Peculiar 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Malefics 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Likes_the_cold -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Scokopelli -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Loptional 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Magnet_tool 147 points148 points149 points 7 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

[–]14936786-021 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It crushes the patriarchy.

[–]MasterDex 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Beltox2pointO1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dontFart_InSpaceSuit 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ceriodamus 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SullyKid 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]assraider21 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]diarrhea_shnitzel 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flavortex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StallinForTime1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]VanillaTortilla1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Freddie_AppsHero1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Boognish_is_life-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DrudfuCommnt-4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CthuIhuhoop2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Boywithpants3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Franfran24241 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]francois221 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Slackslayer-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ImJupi 144 points145 points146 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]LuckyEros 101 points102 points103 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]reado2765 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]comrade-jim 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mrdeadsniper 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because allies are allies, not part of your country.

You can have an alliance with a country and not condone all their actions. In fact, literally every alliance ever is this way.

The Middle East is a Clusterfuck. US likes Israel to exist, which is anathema to about a dozen other countries in the Middle East viewpoint. So any powerful regional player who will agree with the US on the principal "Israel shouldn't be genocided" makes them a "key ally".

On a more personal level, consider your family vs your friends. Chances are you are more forgiving of fuckups by your friends. Your friend occasionally getting black out drunk and thrown in jail matters a hell of a lot less than your spouse occasionally getting black out drunk and thrown in jail. Because one is a much closer relationship. (part of your family) as opposed to an occasional relationship (a friend).

[–]ShelSilverstain 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AeonCyborg 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HKoftheForrest 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]2460111111 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Whenever a woman says something they don't like, they just claim it's internalized misogyny. Because the people who disagree with them have obviously been brainwashed to do so and are definitely not thinking for themselves and having their own opinions or anything.

[–]Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]missedstake1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I think the fact that you’re referring to people with legitimate concerns regarding both this bill as well as the fact that every yes vote cast in senate was done so by a white man as “retards” is totally unnecessary, and to be honest, unimaginative.

[–]Hi_I_Am_God_AMA 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EcoVentura1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LessThanTaelor1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]hussainoid 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (175 children) | Copy Link

[–]nicesalamander 56 points57 points58 points 7 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

[–]missedstake1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

And to add onto this: they believe that an unborn child is the most innocent a person could ever be so they deserve to be protected.

[–]Ruggsii -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ruggsii 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lol_and_behold 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]keeleon 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]keeleon 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NormalMessage 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fionn33 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShelSilverstain -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jaqueso 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShelSilverstain 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters-3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LethalDamage3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ShelSilverstain0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LethalDamage0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ShelSilverstain0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LethalDamage0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ShelSilverstain0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LethalDamage0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ShelSilverstain0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LethalDamage2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jebbyjeb31 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]governmentpuppy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]LethalDamage 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]governmentpuppy0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NormalMessage -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]The-True-Kehlder 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]s1rhaddock 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrbanMilk 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]NicoAtWar 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Stumeister_69 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]keeleon 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Woundedknee1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

It is both alive and human.

[–]shrekinator -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]jebbyjeb3 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unwanted_Commentary1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

You're stupid as fuck, read a biology textbook

[–]shrekinator 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unwanted_Commentary1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

It's not like you made an argument. You did the equivalent of screaming that the sky is pink. Well, you're wrong. The sky isn't pink. Fetuses are both alive and human.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_human_body

[–]WikiTextBot3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Development of the human body

Human development is the process of growth to maturity. The process begins with fertilisation, where an egg released from the ovary of a female is penetrated by a sperm cell from a male. The egg then lodges in the uterus, where an embryo and later fetus develop until birth. Further growth and development continues after birth, and includes both physical and psychological development, influenced by genetic, hormonal, environmental and other factors.

[–]HelperBot_2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]makattak88 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrbanMilk 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]keeleon 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dabestinzeworld 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pieman2005 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]PrimeJetspace -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Boywithpants 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]FullMetalFranko1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]29979245T1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

I personally believe they should set a time span after which they cannot abort the fetus. That'd be pretty fair to both pro-choices and pro-life.

This is how it already works, legal abortion almost never means elective late-term abortion is allowed.

If you want to get a feel for the pro-life perspective, just decide roughly where you think the cutoff should be, and then imagine you're in a world where the cutoff is a lot later than that, and you have to defend your position in that world. And your character too, because you want less choice for women and we all know why. That's pretty much all it boils down to.

[–]Skilol -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Skilol -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Skilol-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Skilol0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Skilol-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Skilol0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jaqueso 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]monkeyboi08 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chasemuss 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (68 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheFoolofBuckkeep1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (63 children) | Copy Link

It's a distinct human being

But that's just false. Let's say at Day 1, it's less than a fetus. It's a collection of cells. Trillions of these organisms have just ceased to exist at Day 1-30 with no one ever knowing or caring.

It is entirely dependent on the mother, it is not distinct at all. You can drop your 2yo off at a gas station and the child will be well cared for b/c services will be called, ffs. A Day 1 fertilized egg is nothing like that, what a bizarre comparison.

[–]chasemuss 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (60 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nanophreak 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately for both sides in this debate, there is no clear answer to that question. If we could all agree on a definition, then abortion laws would be easier to make, the morality of the whole situation would be a lot clearer, and we could all have a much more reasonable conversation.

Common milestones, in order of least concrete in their reasoning to most concrete, would go roughly: first heartbeat, beginning of brain activity, and the point at which the fetus is able to survive independently of the mother (basically a premature birth).

I am not aware of any state that permits third trimester abortions, which would generally be discarding a fetus that could (given substantial medical assistance) live independent of its mother outside the womb.

There is a lot of sentimentality attached to ideas about infants and children, and for good reason. Children are precious and each deserves their best chance at life, as we all do.

This sentimentality creeps into the abortion debate, despite the fact that medically speaking there is a world of difference between a six week old fetus and a fully grown newborn. Roughly 20% (afaik) of pregnancies naturally miscarry near or past the point that Alabama law has set as the deadline, just to put it in perspective. You may have a fertilized embryo, have it implant in the uterus, and then have it fail and your body reject it before you even know you're pregnant.

As far as I'm concerned, at that point it is a bundle of stray cells, containing what could be the DNA of a child. But it is nothing approaching a human being, just as a swab off the inside of my cheek containing my DNA is not me, even though it could be cloned to create me.

[–]Ballistic_Turtle 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ballistic_Turtle -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]PeeCanBeLube 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ballistic_Turtle 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]madmedic22 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ballistic_Turtle -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ballistic_Turtle 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

A cow can feel and perceive plenty of things. Why is it okay to kill them and eat them?

Who said I thought it was? For all you know I'm a PETA-loving vegan.

An infant can't experience things subjectively.

Source? That's a huge claim to make. Also, I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "subjective". Your statement seems to imply you don't even understand what you're saying.

As an aside: Humans have always placed more value on their own kind. I don't know the exact reasons for sure, but if I had to make a reasonable assumption: It's likely a combination of an evolutionary trait meant to help ensure the survival of the species, and an increased perceived value of the objectively higher levels of intelligence that humans have relative to all other life on this planet. If everyone was forced to choose between killing a cow or a human themselves, I'd bet my life >99% would choose to kill the cow when the time came.

[–]BatteryTasteTester 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ballistic_Turtle1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I feel like you don't really know what 'subjectively' means

You've just repeated what I said, even after I linked you a web page dedicated to explaining what the word means. I'm beginning to seriously question your mental ability to continue this discussion.

are you a PETA-loving vegan? No you're not

Now you're pushing for the conversation to be shifted from discussing the point/topic, to being directed at me personally. As I don't care about your opinion of me or my views on a personal level, I'll give you a second chance on this one and wait for a real question.

so you haven't addressed the claim.

You proposed a question, not made a claim. You've also ignored quite a few of my counterpoints to arrive here, but sure, I'll address it for the sake of killing time. I don't think it's ok to kill and eat cows. I've now addressed your question, do you feel better? My personal opinion on the matter is irrelevant and I won't allow you to turn this in to a personal attack, so please keep it on topic from now on. I'm curious to see what fallacy is used next, though.

[–]BatteryTasteTester1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ballistic_Turtle1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WikiTextBot -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Subjectivity

Subjectivity is a central philosophical concept, related to consciousness, agency, personhood, reality, and truth, which has been variously defined by sources. Three common definitions include that subjectivity is the quality or condition of:

Something being a subject, narrowly meaning an individual who possesses conscious experiences, such as perspectives, feelings, beliefs, and desires.

Something being a subject, broadly meaning an entity that has agency, meaning that it acts upon or wields power over some other entity (an object).

Some information, idea, situation, or physical thing considered true only from the perspective of a subject or subjects.These various definitions of subjectivity are sometimes joined together in philosophy.

[–]warpath79 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]warpath79 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BatteryTasteTester5 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manlycooljay2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think there's one clear answer here and it comes down to personal values.

Some people would value an existing established person more than an unborn one or would argue that a grown living person deserves the autonomy to do what they please with their body. It's not illegal for pregnant women to smoke or drink despite it being damaging to the child.

It could also be seen as beneficial to the society not to force people into birthing children they don't want to have or are unfit to raise.

I don't think abortion isn't morally wrong, but not everything that is morally wrong should be criminalized. How would people feel about criminalizing eating meat or adultery?

Obviously the preferred option would be that people wouldn't find themselves in situations where they need/want abortions, but what can be done?

Can suppress people's natural sexual urges with medication? Can we forcibly sterilize people? Contraception is still too faulty to not result in unwanted pregnancies.

People don't end up in those situations out of desire to kill. I wouldn't be surprised if many saved unaborted babies have now grown up to advocate the option to have an abortion.

[–]BatteryTasteTester2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

In my eyes, abortion isn't just wrong, it is reprehensible and astoundingly evil. Intolerable. I don't believe it is the same as eating an extra slice of cake. "I know I shouldn't, but it's not that big of a deal." (Not that you said its not a big deal.)

Its a huge deal. Its human, its valuable, its sacred. We can't just erase it because its inconvenient or painful, or because we think we have the right to.

And there are many people that avoided being aborted that are grateful for their existence, and are pro-life. And there are even many feminists that are pro-life themselves. It doesn't really make the stance more or less valid, but its there.

Anyway, I appreciate your attitude and I have considered what you said. Of course our minds are made up, but at least our discourse is civil. Have a good life.

[–]makattak88 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheEnchantedHunters 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]makattak88 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]warpath79 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Insane_Rogue_AI -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]makattak88 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KishinB 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TempAcct20005 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Treacherous_Peach 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]s1rhaddock 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DifferentThrows 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GoodHumorMan0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Torwulfer -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fionn330 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]chasemuss1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]razrmon 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PeeCanBeLube 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SilentSuit 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]chasemuss 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Torwulfer1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]chasemuss1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]snp3rk1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lemonlaksen -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TempAcct20005 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwingtheshades 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The argument most make is that once the sperm penetrates the egg's outer layers and the nuclei start merging, whatever god responsible grants the zygote a soul.

Most reasonable places have this time frame when an abortion is legal even without medical reasons - usually it's before the embryo becomes a fetus, so around 11 weeks. Or 12.

But from a personal experience of reasoning (or trying to do so) with staunch pro-birth people IRL and online, it always boils down to one thing - "she should have just kept her legs shut!".

And I really would call this stance pro-life. I live in a pro-life country atm. My wife had a maternity leave, the birth itself cost us nothing, the government subsidises daycares after our paternity/maternity leaves run out. If we were poor, there would have been assistance with diapers and other needs. That law in Alabama is exclusively pro-birth. Once it's out, no one gives a flying duck about the child's well-being.

[–]Ruggsii 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crossfit_is_stupid 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]14_year_old_girl 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sorathecrow_ 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bad_Wulph 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The pro-life argument hinges on the sanctity of life and the fetus's right to continue living. The argument is not targeted towards women, but rather towards the unborn child. It is not a pro-lifer's goal to restrict women's rights or to try to oppress women, it really has very little to do with women themselves. Their ideal goal is to give unborn children a voice since they can't speak for themselves and cannot consent to being aborted. Another point that can be argued is that freedom to abort could increase the spread of STD's and other health concerns, as free access to abortion could make people less likely to participate in safe-sex practices, since they would have the option to abort anyway if they got pregnant. Also, abortion itself really is not healthy for the women involved either, as they carry the risk of causing possible reproductive damage. In a worst-case scenario, there could be a public health problem if more women were having reproductive health issues due to abortions.

These are just some points of a pro-life argument, I myself am not 100% sure where I stand on the issue. I agree surely there could be some compromise where maybe abortion could be acceptable under certain conditions or with certain stipulations.

[–]its_probably_a_tumor1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

shouldn't there be a choice to NOT have a kid

That choice was made by having sex.

Women just want to have full control over wether or not there are any consequences.

Sleep with a rich guy? Meal ticket.

Sleep with a poor guy? Trip to the clinic

[–]s1rhaddock 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trump4prezy1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HKoftheForrest0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]therealMarine1216 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We’re acting like it’s easy to get pregnant here. There are many arguments against it but this one in particular isn’t talked about much. Obviously there are cases where a condom breaks or birth control doesn’t work or things along those lines but if you combine the use of condoms with birth control the chances of an unwanted pregnancy are slim. And I know there are many studies that show abstinence only sex education isn’t effective but it’s still a good solution. As I became older I looked up to more and more men and women who were less sexually promiscuous. I think it’s a great accomplishment to be a Virgin at marriage and I personally wish I hadn’t lost my virginity so young, even though I’m still with the same person. And personally as someone who was absolutely 100% against every abortion ever before today I have heard some heartbreaking stories and have seen numerous problems with child services and adoption agencies and all that come to light, and I’ve changed my opinion. I’ve always been for affordable available birth control. That should be a given. Abortion, I see after today, should still be available, but only in certain extreme cases. Not being ready or being too young or not thinking the child would have a good life just simply isn’t a good enough reason to kill a person.

[–]Treacherous_Peach 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think, depending in what you mean by "being too young", you should reconsider that too. Very young girls, like 14 and younger, are posing a huge risk if forced to carry to term.

Anyway, you seem like a reasonable person. I hope you don't genuinely believe teaching abstinence only is more effective than nothing because it is actually worse than nothing. The problem with abstinence only education, by the virtue of the topic, suggests that alternative birth control options are ineffective when in fact they are quite effective. Expecting humans to be abstinent until marriage is a fruitless endeavor, and it's going to continue getting more fruitless every year. At this point, we even have record numbers of long term couples who never get married.

Anyway, the point is we really need to fight abstinence only education. Teaching abstinence as the only 100% effective birth control method is a given, but teaching it as the only birth control method is actively detrimental.

[–]therealMarine1216 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Could you explain your opening paragraph about “being too young” with its relation to the argument? I’m sorry lol I just couldn’t pin down what you were talking about. But absolutely not! I meant that I’ve seen studies that are saying what you are: that abstinence only education is ineffective. And from what I’m reading it seems we’re pretty much on the same page birth control wise. I believe all methods should be easily accessible and taught even though I still believe that being less sexually promiscuous is the best solution. I know that it’s pointless to ask people to wait until marriage due to the availability of dating apps, pornography, and sex’s prominence in tv and movies. But even with all that your best shot of not having an unwanted pregnancy is to take advantage of all the options available, and one of those options is a kind of abstinence. Let me see if this example better gets my point across: If a man has sex unprotected with 15 women over the course of a month, it’s highly likely that one or more of those women will get pregnant. But that whole situation is avoidable by not being so out there sexually, you know? Eliminating even just a third of those partners cuts out a giant risk for pregnancy. And the genders can be switched. Sex 15 times 15 partners over a month is 15 rolls of the dice to see if nothing went wrong

[–]Top_Smug -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterDex-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]danald_tramp34 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Look4theHelpers1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Florinator 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheMinutehour 39 points40 points41 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]CoopertheFluffy 52 points53 points54 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]comrade-jim 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FuckingQWOPguy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]monkeyboi08 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thomase71 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SpookyKid941 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YouNeverCared -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]RHGrey 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Weserat1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You bring up a good point. I wonder what percentage of that figure (pro-life women) is actual mothers who have already had children.

[–]JinorZ 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Xzow 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouNeverCared 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ABrownLamp1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AnorexicBuddha1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]word_clouds__ 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DegenerateMuffin 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]razrmon 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]DegenerateMuffin 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I never once mentioned religion. The cells outside the body cannot live on their own. They are at best a parasite at that point not their own life and a Woman should have the right to eviction of said cells if she chooses. Its basic rights to have control over your own body, get your tubes tied, get your pp snipped, get rid of unwanted cells. I agree its potential life, so are chicken eggs (excluding most American grocery store kind).

In the case where life is viable (including with technological support) or perhaps even when the cells have neural pathways to register or feel things I would say then a women's right to eviction could be contested maybe even illegal and maybe only in the cases of life-threatening or where society would not take care of said baby would she be allowed to abort.

[–]relatable_user_name 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]monkeyboi08 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]heresyourhardware 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]razrmon 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]heresyourhardware 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]razrmon 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]heresyourhardware 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Except that the eggs aren’t fertilized. It takes two to have a child and if both parties were to have been responsible before having sex they wouldn’t need abortion.

Fertilisation is not even close to the start of life. Near 50% of first trimester pregnancies, where most abortions occur, are not viable. As I say to look at potential life as life is not reasonable when the alternative is forcing a woman to bring a child to term.

And that's the point, as well as about reproductive rights it's about bodily autonomy of an individual. If we allow people to choose what happens to their organs are they die but not women what happens to their body, we afford women less rights to their own body than corpses.

I’m all for abortions for rape and health related issues but not for convenience. Better sex education and access to contraceptives is a better solution.

Nothing convenient about it, it's an ardous and emotionally trying process. And I'm all for better sex education and access to contraceptives (which incidentally conservatives also cut access to), but that needs to be about reducing the need for abortion, not eliminating safe access to abortion.

[–]NormalMessage 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tasryll 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Usuqamadiq 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]inzyte 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]anonballs 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tonezinator 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]makattak88 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]The-Worst-Bot 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]makattak88 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tonezinator-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]comrade-jim 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MaxiHEX 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Franfran2424 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xX_Bread_Xx 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TooFewForTwo 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Skeletor24 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TooFewForTwo1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]C19H21N3Os1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]The-True-Kehlder-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thatchersdeadlol 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Smished 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Black_Magic30 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StallinForTime1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]shrekinator-3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]yourteam 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]viewerdoer 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MikeTheGamer123 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SlightlyRukka 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]IfSapphoMadeTacos 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]silvermoon26 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Banned_For_Opinion 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TrinityF 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmrecon 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AurumTP1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badestzazael1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]funkadunkalunk1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AurumTP1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lilprotege1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]imaliberal19801 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badestzazael1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Atomic691 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]cruisinbyonawhim1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BallsMahoganey1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JoelLewinski241 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PatheticShark1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bena24221 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ConnectPermission1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lela5go1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gdb1020931 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BooCakie1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wwaxwork1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LamiaMiia1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ayrab4Trump1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSkipShorty1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]nebuNSFW1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Finnedsolid1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]theinfamousjosh1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ProtectedMethod1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IncendiaryBullet0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ThaCardiffKook -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RyanLSumner1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LongLimbsLenore 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MangoHombre 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FroddyGai-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]derektrader7 -26 points-25 points-24 points 7 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (69 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mr_SkeletaI1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (42 children) | Copy Link

Yup this is a toxic hate sub

[–]TriangleDimes 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aaricane 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mr_SkeletaI1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

You cant even deny that this is a hate sub lol. Completely danced around it

[–]Aaricane 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mr_SkeletaI1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link

Reading through your post history and it seems like just about every comment is anti Muslim in some way. It's fine to criticize Islam but to spend as much time as you do being so hateful to a group of people is just so sad. You are very clearly a hateful person in a hateful sub

[–]Aaricane 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mr_SkeletaI1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

How dare I spend 24/7 obsessively criticizing a group of people that consist of over a billion members? Ya guess nothing wrong with that

[–]Aaricane 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManOfDrinks-3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]HotDiggityDon -17 points-16 points-15 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]bigpopperwopper-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kerayeu1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]ticktickboom45 -23 points-22 points-21 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes 19 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

No they actually aren't. 0% of Muslim women are in favor of it. 0% of Asian Christians are for it. Most of the planet is not in favor of abortion. Yeah I get urban Jews and Blacks seem to love it but you're waaaaaay disconnected from reality if you think Catholic-ass Mexicans are loving abortion. Guess what, women in Alabama aren't all going to move. Why? Cause most of them agree with this. Only Silicon Valley nerds and Beverly Hills maniacs are against this.

The great lie in America is only men are against it. Go to any anti abortion rally, it's full of women. Your abhorrent lie of a narrative just targets men - especially white men - saying it is some random war on women being able to choose.

Oh what if a woman isnt ready to raise a kid? Good point, hey I have an idea, go to a low income neighborhood and tell the kids of a single mom they would be better off dead. Ask them if they would rather be dead. Go do it and report back you fucking sociopath.

[–]imaliberal1980 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AurumTP 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gravelbeast1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ticktickboom45 -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

Bullshit most people are for it, the people in the minority are against it.

You literally named two minority groups who are extremely conservative and a cultural niche.

It's not just inner-city Jews and Blacks, if you think that you're a woefully ignorant farm boy.

Trust me, Latinas want to be able to choose what they do with their bodies.

I don't give a fuck about White men in this argument, just because you're a white male and think every argument against something a white man does is attacking you doesn't mean it's true.

But again you didn't touch my main point, the government shouldn't be able to decide on what a woman does to her own fucking body.

I seriously don't give a fuck if someone disagrees because they can do what they want with their body but they should not step into the realm of others, it's like if they made a fucking ban on food during Ramadan because Muslims do it.

Why are you people suddenly defending major government oversteps?

Why is the government acting like a parent to pre-developed children and grown women when they don't even care about the children already here?

[–]TriangleDimes 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit most people are for it, the people in the minority are against it.

Oooooh shit, check out this bullshit weasel language your idiot brain didn't notice:

Though abortion is a divisive issue, more than half of U.S. adults take a non-absolutist position, saying that in most – but not all – cases, abortion should be legal (34%) or illegal (22%).

What I notice in this link is they never really explain the parameters of "most but not all." So even in your "uh just slightly half of people think abortion should be legal" argument, even within that barely-half they don't believe it should be completely legal.

Do you realize what a phenomenal self-own this is? Wait let me clarify:

Fewer take the position that in all cases abortion should be either legal (25%)

Only 25% of men and women think abortion should be completely legal?

Wow isn't that interesting!

[–]ticktickboom45 -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TriangleDimes 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

They said that 59% believe that it should be legal in most or all cases.

No. They did not. Read it again. Do you need me to do it for you, idiot?

more than half of U.S. adults take a non-absolutist position, saying that in most – but not all – cases

That is a huge difference. They do not define "most." Most could mean medically necessary. Most could be any sort of subjective parameters. But you know what we know, for sure? It is a bad article, it is a bad study. Their barely-half percent was a wishy washy nonsense group.

Only 25% of people believe abortion should be completely legal.

Either way my point is that it is clearly the minority opinion that Abortion should be completely illegal

Did you know that even in the Alabama bill, they allow abortion for medically necessary situations where the mother will die? Look into it. It's true.

Psychopaths like you enjoy arguing edge cases when it is convenient and ignoring edge cases when it is convenient. If you polled the country and asked "should women be allowed to get a non-medically-necessary abortion whenever they want?" 70% would say no.

You thrive in this grey area where you throw out insane hypotheticals and ignore 99% of abortions aren't due to your mystical incest rape. Most women get abortions because it is convenient. Most women are against this. Most men and women are against this. This is why you lie.

Reminder: 25% of people think abortion should be completely legal.

[–]ticktickboom45 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Most cases != When the mother might die

The statistics right there say that 59% are for it in most or all scenarios.

Eat your own words why don't you, non-absolutist != against or for.

It is not a bad article or a bad study, it was made by a company which specializes in gathering information, just because our disagree doesn't make it bad.

Most women do not get abortions because it is convenient and most women aren't against in fact most people aren't against it, you are and people who agree with you.

You happen to be in the minority and your only argument is that you're in the majority which you are not.

Again tell me why the government should have a say in this at all?

Why is this not a personal choice, in what way does a woman's decision to abort a fetus affect you?

This is no hypothetical, it is a rare but very real scenario, you think young aren't raped and impregnated by the thousands every year?

Then you throw out your own hypothetical saying that 70% "would" say no, how much of a hypocrite can you be?

I'm communicating with you calmy and politely yet I'm the psychopath because I'm telling you what you don't wanna hear?

[–]ExplosiveVent1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

m8 just stop talking, you like a fucking retarded piece of shit.

[–]TriangleDimes 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Fermi29 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ticktickboom45 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fermi29 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ticktickboom45 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fermi29 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ticktickboom45 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fermi291 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]five_finger_ben -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheRealSpidey 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MusenUse_KC211 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HiaQueu 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crucialfiction -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]jewaidshepC 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NewAgentSmith1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]assraider21 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]relevantretriever1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kakmeatsammich -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBarkingGallery -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Boywithpants 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]paddywacknack -16 points-15 points-14 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]assraider21 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cruisinbyonawhim1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cruisinbyonawhim1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]scarletphantom -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]s1rhaddock 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]s1rhaddock 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cogsandconsciousness 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Kekscalibur -23 points-22 points-21 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gilgamesh_epic 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kekscalibur 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kekscalibur 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kekscalibur-14 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mu14st3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]turdFARMER_DDS1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Stahner1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Subjectobserver -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]untitled02 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]steak4take -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice try though.

Comments

Wow isn't that interesting!

Title	Nice try though.
Author	turdFARMER_DDS
Upvotes	8092
Comments	876
Date	May 18, 2019 12:11 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/bpyqzh/nice_try_though/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/nice-try-though.877450 https://theredarchive.com/post/877450