Most women or I should say people agree with a lot of the redpill claims when it is not framed in a way that makes women look bad & without the harsh choice of words.

nedinator3000 · 2022-02-13T02:49:44+00:00

That’s a great lesson to learn. When talking to women it’s about HOW you say it as much as what you say. If not more.

Few-Horror7281 · 2022-02-12T17:42:36+00:00

first statement and second statement are different.

Wanting the best possible partner is different than being an asshole who abandons a partner they've made a commitment just because something better comes along. The first statement also says HVM, which is a subjective term. Someone better looking and richer than my bf could come along, but that wouldn't make them more valuable to me. People place value in different things.

I'm a woman who wants the best possible partner as most people do. That's why I take the time to figure out who my partner is before starting a romantic relationship with them. I'm not going to leave cuz I already took the time to find a fantastic partner.

I believe everyone wants to find their best partner, but the first statement assumes a rather awful method, and the second statement just explains what people want.

LotBuilder · 2022-02-12T20:19:38+00:00

Yes. I forget what RP YouTube channel it was but they would basically do street interviews with attractive young ladies that would agree with RP ideas 90% of the time.

Guy- would you agree with saying “shes not your girl, it’s just your turn.”

Girls- “hell yes, you don’t own her.”

Guy- asks a vaguely worded hypergamy question.

Girls- hell yes, you should never settle if you think you can do better.

Drive-By-Cuckers · 2022-02-12T17:22:50+00:00

Those two statements don’t mean the same thing tho you can want the best possible partner and not be a bad person who abandons their partner

AlphaChino-1989 · 2022-02-12T23:09:03+00:00

A king once dreamed about a drought that dried the rivers and killed all the cows and destroyed all the crops. He told his men to bring him a wiseman, a fortune teller, to interpret his dream. After hearing the story from the king, the wiseman said:

"The river symbolizes your love, the the cows your family and close relatives, and the crops your prosperity. The dream augurs that you will kill all your family and relatives and your kingdom will fall in poverty."

The king got angry, hanged the man and sent his men to look after another fortune teller. They brought another one, a magician. After hearing the king tell his dream, the magician said:

"Your dream means that you will have such a long life that you will succeed all your family and relatives, and you'll be the richest man in your kingdom."

The king was so happy that he gave a bag full of gold and jewels to the magician before let him go.

This is a myth of the ancient Sumeria, a culture that existed in Middle East 4000 years ago.

It surprises me that after so many years people still don't understand the power of words, and the importance of chosing your words wisely, not only to deliver your message the way you really mean, but also to help people to understand your point without making them think they are wrong.

The best way to make people agree with you it's not showing them how stupid/bad they are but, instead, guiding them to the answer while you avoid making you look too brilliant.

At the end, people will think your argument was actually their idea.

lissssa-13 · 2022-02-12T17:29:04+00:00

Yea when you make two different statements that state two different things, people who disagree with the first statement may agree with the second one

januaryphilosopher · 2022-02-12T17:35:20+00:00

Okay, but like, that's useless. You can say that men want the best partner possible for themselves and their offspring and I doubt many people would disagree with you. But TRP claims that women do this in some way that men don't.

nemma88 · 2022-02-12T23:44:20+00:00

Its not just framing when one is saying they'll cheat and the other doesn't. There are material differences between those two sentences.

2022-02-12T17:56:20+00:00

Because women don't like being criticised even in the slightest way possible, so they want any criticism to be framed in a way that makes them look good. If you're honest with them and call them a gold digger, of course they will use slurs against you because you're calling them out, but if you frame it in a way that makes them look good then they will naturally accept it. You're not allowed to criticise women, only men, because women are good and men are trash and responsible for all the evil in the world and you better remember that you fucking incel!

Emergency-Regret6974 · 2022-02-13T02:21:16+00:00

You're not comparing sentences that are similar. One implies disloyalty, the other implies pickiness.

Women don't actually enjoy hearing they're incapable of loving men.

2022-02-13T09:26:32+00:00

Part of red pill truth is women will believe something that is false but palatable over a harsh truth - this is also true of the things they say - they will easily lie especially on sex if they think the truth makes them look bad.

decoy88 · 2022-02-12T17:23:23+00:00

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figuringMylife · 2022-02-12T17:21:56+00:00

i’ll raise you one and agree as long as you agree most men or people agree with a lot of FDS claims when it’s not phrased in a way that makes men look bad, women look like gold diggers, or harsh words.

wtknight · 2022-02-12T20:37:30+00:00

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wtknight · 2022-02-12T17:57:12+00:00

If two guys were to go on stage and one of them say “women are bitches who are always trying to date up and will leave you the second a HVM comes around her” he would probably get called an incel and kicked off the stage whereas if the other guy were to say “ofc women want the best possible partner available for their offspring , why wouldn’t they?

First, you're not saying the same thing. The first statement has a connotation of disloyalty, the other has an underlying assumption that the woman has chosen the best possible partner from the beginning and is going to be loyal to him. That's why women would agree with the second statement.

Second, this isn't really what sexual hypergamy means. Men want to optimize their mate choice too, and often leave women who they deem as less desirable for ones who are more desirable. The only reason they might not is because they are naturally polygynous and they cheat and try to have sex with the superior woman while also keeping the inferior woman, too.

Sexual hypergamy among women means that they cannot be sexually attracted to men who they deem lesser than them, unlike men who can with women. It's used by TRP to explain why unsuccessful men need to improve if they have any hope of attracting women, because women don't just date men for "being themselves" if who those selves are are not attractive to them.

chromie96 · 2022-02-12T18:32:25+00:00

Those statements are not the same lmao

AAh-__DuuuWhot337 · 2022-02-12T21:22:32+00:00

You people will break your own brains stretching your rationalization as far as sanity will allow it. There's nothing wrong with the comparison, You choose not to understand it due to it not fitting your delusional narrative. There is no way anybody is so ignorant not to understand exactly what the creator of this post was attempting to highlight with the least amount of words written. Here is a commonsense perspective of the question.

"If two guys were to go on stage. the first man says “women are bitches who are always trying to date up and will leave you once a HVM comes around” he would probably get called an incel and kicked off the stage.

The second man says “ofc women want the best possible partner available, So why wouldn't they leave a lower value man for a higher value man?”

There. This is the question the creator originally intended in my opinion. If I am incorrect about that, No disrespect to the creator. I just want the question answered & not taking out of context to never being addressed. Regardless, Can someone answer the above question. I already know the answer. Women tell you all the time. " I FEEL " " the way it makes me FEEL" " The way I FEEL." Then my personal favorite " I don't define it as that" " We define that differently" " The way I define that is. "

I just want to enjoy the hoops people will jump through to rationalize their socialized ingrained ideology. Can't wait.

Sorcha16 · 2022-02-12T22:44:34+00:00

I don't understand how those two statements are comparable? Wanting to date someone and subsequently have kids with someone with good genes doesn't mean you'd be willing to drop someone the minute "a better option" comes around.

ruboyuri · 2022-02-12T23:05:31+00:00

In other words, strip out the misogyny, and you have mainstream views.

Interesting, no? I guess we know what the main selling point of TRP is

TotalTravesty · 2022-02-12T17:28:31+00:00

The bitterness and misogyny is the red pill. Without it you just have a bunch of obvious shit most people knew before puberty.

The red pill not only makes the natural desire to find the best partner you can some groundbreaking discovery, it turns it into a women-only phenomenon as if every young man dreams of settling down with a disgusting girl-loser.

The red pill takes the fact that attractive people are treated nicer—something everyone learns when it time to ask classmates to their first dance—but pretends that only women are susceptible to attractiveness. As if every boy was tripping over themselves to ask out the fat acne-riddled girl.

It’s not the choice of words, it’s the hypocrisy and willful ignorance. Without it there would be no pill, just people.

SurelyWoo · 2022-02-12T23:11:09+00:00

Hypergamy, as studied by biologists, doesn't necessarily include the idea that women will leave their mate, only that they tend to prioritize seeking a mate of higher status, similar to the way that men tend to prioritize youth and beauty. Those are factual observations, but whether a random person believes them may depend on the way you frame the information. There's a good quote (Rebecca Goldstein?) that sums up human mate selection: "women are ornaments and men are appliances."

Sad_Top1743 · 2022-02-12T17:27:30+00:00

Your example isn’t hypergamy. It would be two dudes on stage and one has more status + height. The latter gets all the women.

But generally I do find that people agree with redpill but they don’t like to admit it.

wtknight · 2022-02-12T19:03:00+00:00

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brandelyn_ · 2022-02-12T19:59:22+00:00

Most men who have been abused have nobody to talk to about it. All of our men's support groups are run by men and only allow biological males into a space to be vulnerable and validated for the first time in their lives.

I don't know why you're so angry and I don't why you think you know all this about me. The things I know about you are clear as day from your raging, spittle-covered vitriolic fantasies. You're fantasizing about child abuse and blaming step-parents?

For the record though, since you're that interested in my post history, head back to last summer and you'll find that my mother was a fucking monster and the step-dad was just along for part of the ride.

Most of this sub is angry people picking apart the worst qualities of (some) male and female populations to justify projecting their own self-hate onto others. It's called the Outer Critic (projection of the Inner Critic), and learning about it could help change the course of all your lives. Be well

Suck-Less · 2022-02-12T17:43:29+00:00

The modern American woman is in the mist of a full blown nervous breakdown. She is torn between 2.5 million years of evolution and a lifetime of toxic feminism. She has convinced herself that her grandmothers and great grandmothers, that were the matriarchs of the family, were nothing but slaves. She has no ability to accept accountability for her own actions.

When you combine this with a whole generation of young men that will sacrifice their self respect for just a hint of affection, and a media that constantly tells her how special she is, the result is a ongoing state of complete cognitive dissonance.

TL;DR Do not understand the modern woman’s ability to double speak.

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-02-12T19:41:39+00:00

...you know those two statements are different, right?

GlumManufacturer1557 · 2022-02-12T18:47:10+00:00

With the hypergamy example, it's just not the same thing. The first said she would leave for a better option, the second say they want the best partner, that doesn't mean she would leave her current. It's just that if you present 2 potential partners for single women, one ''better'' and the other ''worse'', obviously they'll pick the better one. Same with men. But if you go to women in relashionships and present them with someone ''better'' than their current partner, most won't cheat/ leave, simply because most women are loyal, just like most men.

gordonwestcoast · 2022-02-12T18:34:04+00:00

There's a lot more to hypergamy than "women want the best possible partner available for their offspring."

2022-02-12T23:31:34+00:00

Don't we say the same about men?

thelastjeka · 2022-02-13T00:41:54+00:00

Made up concept. Most people, male or female, will be very tempted to leave if someone they perceive is better approached them with interest. Men do it quite often, especially when their wives get older. Maybe you should realize that a lot of red pill concepts were created around blatant hypocrisy.

Men also statistically leave their wives more often when they get sick. Idk maybe realize your own bullshit.

2022-02-12T20:15:58+00:00

The main reason I refuse to be feminist despite wanting actual equality is because I'm convinced that feminists don't believe that women do any uniquely, cruel things that aren't based in the patriarchy.

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scwizard · 2022-02-12T21:59:06+00:00

Isn't it just human to want to be with someone attractive?

Let's say a guy is in his 40s and is married to a woman a similar age, and a flirty 20 something model type hits on him. It's totally human to have thoughts about this or that, and he needs to make a decision on if he's going to honor God or give into his sinful desires.

Similarly if some married guy in a nice suit that owns a business and has a nice jaw or whatever flirts with a woman, it's also totally human for her to think about this or that. And she needs to make a decision on if she's going to try and do something that honors God or if she's going to try and do something else.

I've met girls that expect their partner to never even think about anyone else but them and well I just think that's immature. Doing the right thing is not about never having any inclinations towards evil, it's about having those inclinations and choosing to depend on God to resist them.

cytPandora · 2022-02-13T01:40:09+00:00

The first statement suggests woman treat men as smartphones and upgrades them, the second suggests a woman buys herself a good smartphone in the first place, right? For me it's totally different. From men's perspective. If you were to choose between dating a good looking girl but boring, or a good looking fun girl, what would you? Of course we want the best company we can get. That doesn't mean every woman sees men like toys

vanillaspice9 · 2022-02-13T11:35:37+00:00

I've seen way more men leave their partners for younger and/or more attractive women, whilst sometimes uprooting their whole family, than I've seen women leaving for rich men. Surely there are more attractive women in the world than rich men... Not even every attractive woman will get a rich or successful man by the numbers. So I'm not saying that hypergamy doesn't exist, but we never talk about the flip side either.

da_trealest · 2022-02-12T18:32:14+00:00

Don't forget "The Wall"

AidsVictim · 2022-02-12T18:44:39+00:00

“women are bitches who are always trying to date up and will leave you the second a HVM comes around her” he would probably get called an incel and kicked off the stage whereas if the other guy were to say “ofc women want the best possible partner available for their offspring , why wouldn’t they?”

These are two different things though and I doubt redpill would say "HVM", rather it would be better looking/more exciting/higher social status. The first is basically criticizing women for viewing men/relationships as disposable in pursuit of the "high", the second is a very generalized statement that doesn't really mean much.

Even if you could drop the misogynistic rhetoric women still wouldn't like or agree with TRP because any kind of stereotyping/generalizing about their behaviour and criticism of it is anathema to most women. Most men can agree with at least some stereotypes about men (i.e. most men are horn dogs, men make dumb decisions for pussy, men treat prettier women better generally etc), even see that FDS etc make valid points about screening for men. Women mostly reject this sort of stereotyping for several reasons and will be eternally at odds (at least in the modern paradigm) with being "profiled" by TRP or whatever dating advice.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-02-12T18:45:14+00:00

I agree that too many guys give into their anger and put women on the defensive, which then gets them into defensive tribal mode, and no good discussion can ensue.

However, your example statements are wrong. I disagree with much of TRP's characterization of hypergamy, but some form of the hypergamous impulse is real. The point is that both men and women do try to optimize and get the best partners they can. But there are real differences with respect to the instinctive constraints each genders has when going about this, including how attractive the 'no partner' option is.

So simply framing the genders as having symmetrical strategies of trying to get the best partner they can get is true at a very low level of resolution, but it actually obfuscates as much as it illuminates.

toasterchild · 2022-02-12T21:34:29+00:00

I think some people are looking to always level up, avoid dating them it's a toxic mentality.

2022-02-13T00:35:30+00:00

There's nothing to disagree with or CMV.

Maybe I'm not that open minded lmao.

2022-02-13T05:19:20+00:00

None of those are the same thing though so that was a poorly framed comparison.

slavicslothe · 2022-02-13T05:46:33+00:00

You’re typing. If you “should say” then delete the first part and just say the part you meant.

2022-02-13T07:12:58+00:00

Framing effects rule everything around me.

billsull_02842 · 2022-02-13T09:04:49+00:00

women are looking for the bigger and better deal-hardbodies

GayWritingAlt · 2022-02-13T11:29:11+00:00

I don’t know how I got this sub recommended to me, but I’m not from here.

I do not think people like being treated as a means to get offsprings.

Bendetto4 · 2022-02-13T12:46:20+00:00

Murderers sound a lot less murdery when you frame it in a way that sounds less murdery.

For example:

"I want to murder anyone who stands in the way of my life"

Vs

"God sends you challenges that you must overcome"

2022-02-13T17:32:00+00:00

Im left wondering why so many people think those two sentences are in any way comparable. You should go back to the drawing board with your examples.

Maybe the first guy sounds like a misogynistic talking doll when you pull it’s string.

Plus-Current1854 · 2022-02-15T04:38:29+00:00

THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT STATEMENTS LOL.

"Women are bitches who are always trying to date up and will leave you the second a HVM comes around her."

Implications: 1-Women are bicthes

2-The speaker subjects to the Red Pill Ideology and believes in concepts such as High Value Male

3-Women will hop inmediately after a guy with (more money, etc) comes around

Why I disgree? 1-Women aren't in fact bitches

2-HVM is a concept that is comprised just by things society deems desirable not what particular individuals want. But a fantasy of what is wanted.

3-Women are human beings with emotions and emotional attachments. Women will not hop around, non-commited people will.

"ofc women want the best possible partner for their offspring"

Implications: 1-Women want children and choose their partner thinking about those future children they want

2-When women want children, they will choose a partner who will take care of their children

3-Women will choose the best possible partner (best is a subjective measure, unlike HVM)

Why I disagree/agree? 1-Not all women want children. Therefore children are not going to be the main factor when choosing a partner for many women. Ergo I disagree.

2-When women want children they will choose a partner who will take care of their children. A mother wants a good father for their children. A father wants a good mother for their children. This is just obvious. People want good partners. People that want offspring want partners that will be good to those offspring.

3-Women will choose the best possible partner. Best for me is not best for you. When I think of a "best partner" I will think of what characteristics constitute "best" for me personally. Therefore agreeing with this is easy.

On the other hand agreeing about HVM is not. A key concept in the HVM stuff is a dude with money. I chose my husband. He had no more money than me. I have never cared about money. My only requirement ever for guys has been "needs to be either working or studying or trying to find a job". Because this is what my father told me I myself should always be doing. Either working, or studying or trying to find a job.

Not everyone's "best" will coincide with the HVM archetype. Easy to agree with I want what is best, and what is best according to my idea of best. Hard to agree to a rigid idea of a HVM. A "HVM" is just not interesting to me.

Plus-Current1854 · 2022-02-15T04:52:59+00:00

The statement above literally states two different things.

It is not the same agreeing with wanting a HVM and agreeing with wanting a partner that is "best" for me (or children, but not everyone wants children).

Best can mean anything. I decide what is best. Best adapts to my needs and wants and desires.

HVM is a rigid concept. It may interest me or it may not.

I don't care about money so for me I want what is best. What is best according to my own idea of "best". A HVM is not my idea of "best", therefore it definitely is NOT what I am interested in. It is not "best" for me.

I can agree with the second statement and not the first. Because they are different statements.

Ps. Also, women are not "bitches". That much should be obvious.

CloudguyJS · 2022-03-16T09:24:00+00:00

If you think both of those statements are equal then you are just lying to yourself and if you don't think your choice of words matter then you may want to reflect on it. If someone was trying to get past a person because they were blocking the door and said "Excuse me. Do you mind if I squeeze past you?" in most cases the person blocking the door would apologize and move out of the way or at least oblige and move out of the way. On the other hand, most people would feel that the person was being hyper-aggressive, and disrespectful if someone said "What the hell is wrong with you? Get the F*ck out of my way you d*ckhead". They would likely be upset about the situation and most, if not all, would agree that the person's statement was unacceptable. Both statements are communicating the same thing, but obviously both will impart different feelings and reactions. How we communicate, including choice of words, matter.

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