A vocal minority is not enough to explain the explosion of the manosphere and other dating related content, things are truly different now

Gigamon2014 · 2022-10-23T11:25:40+00:00

OLD and social media has largely changed the game.

Add to that divergent sexual lifestyles. I was talking to a woman in a group convo who went into stripping and told me she signed up to one of those NSA sex websites. She said her inbox had 700 messages. Interestingly though, the guy she was into was average. If anything, she actually seemed more averse to men who looked good or "chads".

I think its kinda complex what's happening right now. It's not merely that "Chads" are winning. If anything, I think men are perfectly content with men they perceive to be higher on the "dominance/social proof" hierarchy to be more sexually successful. The problem for men is simply that many have no adjusted to the influence women now have in the dating market.

The reason why redpill/PUA/Kevin Samuel's has exploded in popularity is because men feel shortchanged by the relative double-speak put forth by women. Society tells us that life is competition, that capitalism rewards those who are the most ruthless and successful. We're plastered with images of superheros, all of whom are jacked to the gills, more villainous and rack up kill counts by the dozen. Hip Hop has become probably the most dominant musical genre today and yet its filled to the brim with misogyny and opulence, often used as a means of shaming competition/"opps". Everyday we are shown tech billionaires who live like modern day pharoes as the (apparently unbiased) news media fawns over their wealth and power.

At the same time women tell us that they value egalitarian personalities and uninhibited self expression. Stoicism is out and "feelings" are in. We as men are meant to be in touch with our emotions and take the myriad criticisms of masculinity shown in the media on the chin. We are meant to accept rejection with a nod and a "thank you ma'am" and move on. We are meant to be charming and inoffensive, lest our political or social opinions give potential partners "the ick".

The problem is, those last two paragraphs don't really mix. And that's where the manosphere comes in. You can't really expect men to adhere to traditional expressions of masculine competence...high earning potential, fitness, self care/grooming, confidence whilst also expecting him to be kind, egalitarian, feminist leaning and liberal. The manosphere is one of the few places not lying to men. It's one of the few places not practicing shameless hypocrisy. I'm in the UK and you'll hear a bunch of MPs telling you how much they care about women's rights and then you'll hear a report commissioned telling you how bullying, sexual harassment and even assault are rife in the houses of Parliament. Young modern men are sick of the lies and, like the mob bosses in the Dark Knight turning to the Joker, they're embracing a dangerous movement of which espouses tenets that many of these men are too sheltered/young/inexperienced to understand.

NockerJoe · 2022-10-23T03:47:43+00:00

Anyone who's been here a while can also see how the goalposts have moved. Red and Black pill people were treated like escaped mental patients before, or at best called crazy because they didn't really have the resources they do today. But now they have a lot more studies with more recent data backing them up and people love to talk about how all this shit was always common knowledge like a flat denial wasn't the norm even like 4 years ago. The same talking points that used to get cast as fringe lunacy are now treated as a kind of baseline norm even ostensibly normal "blue pillers" accept without hesitation and will also reach the top of mainstream subs.

Ironically this has emboldened an even more crazy fringe to be even more extreme since they have a larger base and a nugget of truth they didn't before.

There's certainly something going on here. I don't trust any groups here or anywhere online to really articulate what that is, but there's something there.

decoy88 · 2022-10-23T05:11:03+00:00

Guys get fucked over and start looking online for answers (like everybody does about everything) & those observations that the manosphere makes aligns with their experience and a new acolyte is born.

swordfishrenegade · 2022-10-23T05:55:21+00:00

Game/pickup has been around for decades. It’s gone by different names, but it’s always been there.

Game went back underground a few years ago, when cancel culture started, which is why so many guys are having trouble. You need to know where to look today and who to talk to for what used to be freely exchanged knowledge.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-10-23T08:06:51+00:00

let's be realistic the manosphere isn't that popular if you're not in an onl9ne space specificakly for it

TyrellGreen · 2022-10-23T03:48:39+00:00

1) Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube all recommend posts and videos that they know that you’re already interested in. You’re literally not seeing the many other videos that show the other side of the dating spectrum. Because the social media sites know that you will most likely turn them off if you actually see a compelling case for something that you don’t want to believe in.

2) Most people who don’t have problems with dating…..aren’t making videos explaining how to date successfully. The few that are, are almost always there to sell you something.

TotalTravesty · 2022-10-23T03:47:26+00:00

We’re living in the golden age of content. The barrier for any jackass with a camera phone and podcast mic to try for internet fame has never been lower and said jackasses are hurling themselves over it on a daily basis. You can find 100 different channels about knitting and have your feed push 100 more on you as recommendations but that doesn’t mean we’re in some kind of knitting revolution.

Fuck man, I thought this generation was supposed to know how social media works.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-10-23T04:27:25+00:00

There's been a key shift since OLD and everyone is losing.

SmilesLikeMardiGras · 2022-10-23T11:22:49+00:00

10 yrs ago? ive been involved in the manosphere via chateau heartiste/roissy since 2008 and it was already going quite a few years before then

Conscious-Rate-1508 · 2022-10-23T19:29:21+00:00

It's not true that these things weren't popular. Maybe they weren't called "redpill" but all of the things I see in redpill spaces I saw already as a kid and when I was growing up.

In my country, we had whole books and forums saying things like:

women's rights are bad
women can't think logically
women don't have their own ideas and hobbies, and If they do, they lie
women are driven by emotions
how to fuck a lot of women
women destroy civilizations

and more. I hated being a woman when I was growing up, I felt inferior because of all of this.

Also, men have been crying about the same thing since women started gaining their rights. If you ever have a chance, look up Edwardian-era British newspapers, or polish magazines from that time.

Nothing I saw on redpill/manosphere pages was new. Even pages with memes had tons of "women bad" punchlines.

Warm_Gur8832 · 2022-10-23T04:19:03+00:00

This is actually a simple phenomenon.

While feminism has spent 60 years pushing for and working towards the acceptance of women succeeding in careers, there’s not been a parallel movement for men to be trophy wives and clean the house.

So all of these young dudes are simply frustrated and burnt out; living with 1950’s provider expectations on themselves combined with 2020’s competitiveness.

But they’re too ashamed to accept that because it’s socially dangerous to go against the grain, so they would rather turn the spotlight on women, the left, declines in religion, feminism, etc.

The most constructive thing that could happen for these guys is an authentic social revolution to actually value janitors, stay at home parents, and grocery store cashiers.

I mean, those are the sorts of things that actually keep society upright anyway.

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-10-23T05:01:40+00:00

It absolutely is enough to explain. Look at how the evangelical right, a minority in this country has had an explosion in the political sphere. A lot of manosphere types have stupid takes but are expert evangelists and good at convincing particularly young men to do free advertising for their channels and Discord ventures.

Ylduts · 2022-10-23T09:17:10+00:00

Men are being tossed aside and everyday more and more are starting to realize this. I urge everyone to look at what generally happens to society’s with disenfranchised men and ask yourself if this is the society you want to live in.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-10-23T12:15:04+00:00

Social media didn't exist the way it does today, these guys were still out there spreading their toxicity, they just did it in different ways.

festethefoole1 · 2022-10-23T12:43:42+00:00

Yeah I do agree. These channels aren’t niche. They rocket up to 500k-1m subs within six months if the content is well put-together.

Furthermore, even the likes of Morgan Stanley have predicted something like 45% of women between 25-44 will be unmarried and childless by 2030, which obviously renders the same number of men equally so.

Online dating and social media has radically changed a fundamental part of human society

catniagara · 2022-10-23T13:08:14+00:00

It happens when something hits the mainstream media. They had their boom, this is their bust, eventually they’ll be niche again.

Choice_Ad_6230 · 2022-10-23T13:47:30+00:00

Our fathers failed us or just didnt live through a time where their advice was relevant to the current dating culture. Men are seeking answers and help navigating this new world. Its not going anywhere.

ClaraBow01 · 2022-10-24T07:15:13+00:00

I don’t think anyone are arguing that young men aren’t have some kind of identity crisis right now. The controversy comes about with who or what is causing the crisis. Most of the RedPill argue it’s women and/or feminism. The other side would argue it’s because that society has not given enough men guidance to develop a healthy relationship with their masculinity. Women’s roles have evolved more in the past decades than men’s has. It’s that imbalance that is the problem. RedPill thinks women need to go back, and the anti-RedPill thinks men need to catch up.

gymbro718NYC · 2022-10-23T05:13:55+00:00

Before the pills, there was pick up artist stuff. Before pua stuff there were just a bunch if guys exchanging tips on how to pick up girls. Before that, father gave advice to son on how to seduce a woman.

The MGTOW and RedPill diverged from the PUA circles and those movements were made up of the men who were unsuccessful wjth learning to pick up women. MGTOW isn't some philosophical movement. It's a bunch of guys who couldn't get laid, so they toe tended to go their own way. Red pillers couldn't figure out why being a nice guy didn't work, so they started emulating the raging assholes that seemingly get women and developed deep hatred and contempt for women in the process.

Siukslinis_acc · 2022-10-23T09:11:27+00:00

You know how social media algorythm works? You look up a thing enough times and then the algorythm knows that you want to see more stuff about it and thus it suggests you more stuff about it.

Looking at the content that I see on my social medias, I could say that TTRPG content has exploded and things are truly different now. There are many content creators discussing TTRPG stuff, there are many TTRPG shows, there are many models/art/music created for the usage in TTRPGs, there are many TTRPG systems being created.

So if you are interested in a thing, the algorythm shows you the things that you are interested in, thus it puts you in a buble where you are not aware about stuff happening outside the bubble.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-10-23T13:15:36+00:00

There isn’t an “explosion”. The algorithm has just figured out what struggling men watch so it can keep feeding them the same content over and over so they can make money off them showing adds in between.
There are always going to be dudes struggling, and always dudes gritting off them. Social media just made it easier for them to grift. Casanova “how to pick up women” gurus were replaced by PUA, who were replaced by “alpha bros” who are being replaced by “podcast influencers”.

AshookaNaga · 2022-10-23T03:42:57+00:00

A ton of money making shills came in.

Plus in the US it’s political season so there will be another manosphere push to political bullshit by the right, so they’ll have shills out.

Demasii · 2022-10-23T04:51:03+00:00

10 years ago, all these pill related content were non existent

There was a ton of content. Viva La Manosphere was the one stop shop to categorize many of the PUA, MGTOW and TRP blogs.

all these YouTube channels, podcasts about dating were very niche, now it seems like every month there is a new one , and they get popular quickly

Of course they are. It's a newer medium to spread the information.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-10-23T06:24:50+00:00

Well, a lot of men feel like they're struggling now just because they're not having casual sex all the time. Many who consume this content are in fact teenagers who haven't had a chance to dare yet. And of course, not everyone who's watching is looking for advice, many just like to hear what's said about women. And honestly, even if it's bigger now, it's still a minority group that's into these things.

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14ers4days · 2022-10-23T15:32:18+00:00

The more things change the more they stay the same. Every time a man gets rejected, in his mind it is an injustice. Men used to club each other over the head, now they bitch on the internet.

Mysterious-Book5380 · 2022-10-23T21:10:18+00:00

Yes, things became different with the advent of technologies such as IVF and other artificial insemination methods. Homo Sapien Males have become truly redundant for their vital biological purpose since these technologies and have thus become completely expendable, especially combined with the facts that homo sapeien females are overwhelmingly bisexual, and most people are easily influenced by upbringing and culture. The current one overwhemingly favors homosexuality and female empowerment with an overall antagnostic view of males, really a case of "guilty until proven innocent".

WideAwake550 · 2022-10-24T00:47:16+00:00

You'll notice that there's also tons of conservative or "anti woke" spaces online too compared to the past.

It's because people who advocate for straight men and conservatives as a group are both treated and branded as comic book villains in the mainstream which leads to the adverse effect of people growing as an online community and being able to discuss things without being labelled a negative thing just for existing.

Men are expected to just go along blindly with the Blue Pill narrative even if things aren't adding up just like people are supposed to go with the MSN/Left narrative without questioning it.

Per reverse psychology, this makes people distrust mainstream narratives about both dating and politics more and more especially as more people feel disillusioned or lied to about things we've been indoctrinated to believe as undisputed facts.

I'll just leave it at that.

TheAutismPill · 2022-10-24T06:50:49+00:00

'More confusing', sure. Doesn't necessarily mean what pillers are selling is the true explanation though.

hungry_frenchy · 2022-10-24T10:26:34+00:00

Well, I partly disagree on one thing.

10 years ago, there were plenty of forums about dating, PUA and men having some troubles with dating already.

_demidevil_ · 2022-10-24T15:32:07+00:00

I think there’s a disproportionate amount of men who struggle to date online because the ones who date without trouble are out on dates, with their girlfriends and socialising. They don’t have time to moan online.

Title	A vocal minority is not enough to explain the explosion of the manosphere and other dating related content, things are truly different now
Author	rivetcitymayor
Upvotes	47
Comments	247
Date	October 23, 2022 3:33 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/yb6xqv/a_vocal_minority_is_not_enough_to_explain_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/a-vocal-minority-is-not-enough-to-explain-the.1136824 https://theredarchive.com/post/1136824

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