CMV : A big cause of confusion is that the male “average” is statistically above average, but women understandably perceive this above average guy as average

puddingbike · 2023-05-10T12:01:55+00:00

My hard take on this - and I don't want to upset some of you younger lads - is that modern living (namely, being sedentary when you're young) has disproportionately fucked the physiological development of men more than women. I think people are even possibly getting epi-genetically fucked.

We know about the bidirectional relationship between adipose tissue and testosterone. We know how important exercise is on nutrient partitioning, insulin levels (and, to a degree, growth hormone and testosterone levels) and sleep modulation. Athletic coaches have often voiced their observation that people who trained from a very young age appear to have an advantage that is seldom caught. It's not a stretch to imagine that being skinny fat and sedentary during puberty impacts your hormone levels at a time where it really fucking matters.

MUTUALDESTRUCTION69 · 2023-05-10T11:50:40+00:00

We all exist on a spectrum between Hasbulla and Jimmy Garapolo and if we as men don’t accept that we’re simply not self aware.

I am not a handsome tall Quarterback in a complex West Cost scheme who uses his playmakers to his advantage and makes well timed reads. My handoff is not as crisp and when I go to Vegas I do not have brothels giving me lifetime passes. I have never been in a Super Bowl and the women in my life know this about me even though we don’t discuss it.

I am also not 3’4. I am not Hasbulla. No, seriously.

Some women like me. Some do not. But I can say for sure that I have absolutely been above, below and right on average for many different women. Realistically everything between a soft 8 and a high 4 is a matter of taste. You are not Hasbulla OP.

toasterchild · 2023-05-10T13:08:58+00:00

And the woman you see with these above average guys is probably above average herself. Rarely do I see a couple out together who isn't looks matched. Men are constantly complaining that "no women" find them attractive but what they really mean is no attractive women find them attractive.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-05-10T13:29:27+00:00

I would say this is true for the most part. “Rounding up” is also an issue. Because a lot of guys in the US are close to 6ft, but a lot fewer are actually 6ft+. Same for 6 inches in other locations.lol So in reality, most women won’t perceive a 5’11” man as “short” for example, but might say they want a 6ft man, and men will take that literally and feel they are too short.

Men also tend to overestimate what the average woman looks like, in some cases, quite dramatically. A non-overweight 20 yr old with an overall feminine shape but not particularly fit or curvy, pleasant enough but not especially pretty face, is not “average” either. You’ll see a lot of guys claiming pretty actresses and influencers are “average looking,” “5,” “mid,” etc.

The average for both men and women is a kinda chubby body and a not unpleasant but totally unremarkable face, yet a lot of times this person would get rated a “4.”

Steakman1 · 2023-05-10T11:14:55+00:00

There was a time where maybe you could say it was mostly women doing these things, thinking above average men as average. But there seems to be a pretty big trend, at least in manosphere or RP content, of rating above average women as average or below average. Maybe they’re intentionally doing it to crap on women or bruise their egos. Or maybe they genuinely believe those women are average. Either way, the men who do that are extremely hypocritical if they are complaining or discussing how women view average men as below average and above average as average. Is a similar type of confusion going on among rp/manosphere men?

sublimemongrel · 2023-05-10T13:07:46+00:00

People are going to base “average” on what is in their own dating demographic or dating pool. Thin not particularly muscular and well earning is not that far of a stretch for “average” for your thin MC+ college educated woman. Same reason young men here are really only focused on thin young women (who statistically are going to be thinner and more attractive than what is “average” of women in general).

Mr tall-but-not-six-foot, fit and healthy, nice pleasant face who makes a decent living is also most likely dating an above average woman if you’re looking at average of the female population in general.

EulenWatcher · 2023-05-10T11:17:58+00:00

The issue is that there’s no the golden standard for an average person and it highly depends on one’s social circle. For younger people their average is gonna be fitter but poorer while the opposite is true for older people. If we take statistical average and that’s an overweight broke person in debt probably in their 40s for the US, that’s not really attractive, sure, but it’s also an accumulation of all ages so it isn’t very representative.

I’d also guess that an average person does have some better and worse qualities, they aren’t average everywhere. With struggling men there’s also a tendency into the opposite direction - they deem themselves average while they might be below average overall or they have some quality that overrides them being average in looks/finance, like being on the spectrum or having mental issues or no social skills.

Safinated · 2023-05-10T14:30:07+00:00

Receipts please

Billsandasonom · 2023-05-10T19:39:14+00:00

Average to women means the average in a pool of guys she would ever consider dating or fucking. The actual average is the middle-aged invisible schlubby dude at the grocery store, if not Walmart.

Ohmaygahh · 2023-05-10T16:31:54+00:00

I don't care about the average person's wealth, height, length, etc.

Give me the median, preferably in age brackets. That will tell me infinitely more.

Zabadoodude · 2023-05-10T15:53:47+00:00

Whenever I go outside I see plenty of average couples together. It's rare to see a couple that isn't closely matched on looks. I've traveled, and see this everywhere I go.

If you consistently see unattractive women with attractive men, or the other way around, your standards are probably skewed.

People will rant online about how the other gender needs to step up to meet their standards, but they can mostly be ignored.

CatchPhraze · 2023-05-10T12:21:42+00:00

The majority of men get married. Nearly all men have relationships.

Thus by sheer numbers, yes lots of average men get into relationships.

Chemical_Major_1403 · 2023-05-10T12:00:02+00:00

The thing is women teach young girls to get The relationship , while men were teaching young boys to get A relationship, but now with the red pill it's seems that they are guiding men to The relationship , keep in mind that we are talking about women who hear all time :" if your bf does this ,leave him" or " if your bf doesn't do this ,leave him " women are filtering relationships not just men , women are closer to getting the "men of their dream " than a HVM getting " the maiden "

wtknight · 2023-05-10T12:27:18+00:00

There are a lot of average guys in relationships

I think that there are a lot of average guys who have learned to market themselves in relationships. Women have to be attracted to something about a guy. He can’t go in acting like a complete normie in every way and expect to attract a woman.

Don’t forget that, even with the most dismal statistics, only about 30% of young men aren’t having sex. That means that the 50th percentile guy is having it.

cute_boy_kisser · 2023-05-10T21:39:32+00:00

I do think social media has created a sort of "attraction deflation" that affects men more than women (since men are hornier). I argue with my girlfriends all the time about the looks of men. They'll call some buff 7/10 on Tinder "mid" or whatever.

But you have to keep in mind that the average person in the west is becoming fat/obese. Like a true "average" person might be someone you consider a 3/10 just because they're fat.

HobbitShaker88 · 2023-05-11T03:38:40+00:00

These average guys are an inch UNDER 6 foot, has a nice pleasant non offensive face but ISNT defined or angular or particularly masculine in his features, earns maybe a bit more than the standard guy but ISNT RICH, and has a fit healthy body but ISNT MUSCULAR or athletic.

NOPE. WRONG.

As someone who dated extensively for 10 years before meeting my husband in 2016. My definition of average is:

-under 5 ft 10 (probably a range of 5 ft 7 to 5 ft 10...not sure as despite what men on here say I never obsessed over height. I only wanted a man my height or taller and considering Im 5 ft 3.5 it aint hard to find!) Not 6 ft

-average face. Actually on this forum people have posted pictures of "average men" off of dating sites and several reminded me of exes, lol. They objectively wouldnt be considered ugly, just meh, facially. Of course I personally found them attractive after I met them and got to know them.

-I looked up the stats on this one as the height of my dating was 2012-2016...but the men I dated made around the average amount of income at the time: 57,000. Many had jobs in decent fields but hadnt been working in them for long. (Which is the reality for most fields...)

-None of them were fit. In fact, the vast majority I exercised quite more than them. They werent muscular at all. They werent fat, though a few many would probably consider to be a little chubby, maybe they carried it well though...I anticipate most of them were mid to high range in a normalish BMI.

punktfan · 2023-05-10T14:13:27+00:00

So what you're saying is the average guy sucks? Sounds like an opportunity to do better!

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-05-10T11:00:12+00:00

These average guys are an inch UNDER 6 foot

That's only a half inch above the average height for men in the US.

1softboy4mommy · 2023-05-10T17:39:37+00:00

Get off from social media and dating apps and touch some grass. Suddenly you will see that average women date average men, hot women date hot men and below average also date those who match their looks. Most of the time.
There are some exception like if a popular/rich man or girl who have more attractive partner than they are. Or if a girl liked a guy and pursued him and a guy "settled" for her.

Oli_love90 · 2023-05-10T20:44:23+00:00

It’s crazy how ya’ll keep telling us what we think is an average man. When we say “hey, that’s not average” you still insist these are the only metrics we use when determining whose attractive.

How are you going to move forward if you think women don’t understand what a truly average human looks like?

Brandy96Ros · 2023-05-11T04:04:43+00:00

Men tend overrate their attractiveness so I don't trust men to know what "average" and "above average" is. Also, it's a myth that women prefer men over 6 ft. Anything just under that is fine. I'd take a fit, muscular 5'11 guy over a lanky 6'2 guy any day.

Affectionate_Answer3 · 2023-05-11T06:55:00+00:00

If a guy is average he should work on his humor. Being funny will instantly boost your attractiveness setting you apart so more girls will notice you. Look at Pete Davidson, sure I get that he is tall…but his scrawniness isn’t necessarily attractive and women that are considered a 10 that didn’t need him for his money still got with him because who cares about muscles or a chad when you find a guy that✨makes you laugh✨😍

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KayRay1994 · 2023-05-10T14:15:56+00:00

frankly, most of what you’ve listened are attainable - but you’ve also missed out on the most important bit, how do you make her feel? does she have fun around you? do you have goals and aspirations for the future? can you make her feel comfortable, safe, etc? - more often than not guys in general tend to focus up on the superficial characteristics and i think that’s their ultimate downfall

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-05-11T03:57:21+00:00

The other half of the equation is with all these women saying they are 10s and queens and blah blah….

They don’t even recognize what an avg woman is….they all act/feel entitled to top tier

Title	CMV : A big cause of confusion is that the male “average” is statistically above average, but women understandably perceive this above average guy as average
Author	Cjaylyle
Upvotes	59
Comments	148
Date	May 10, 2023 10:56 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13dn1i3/cmv_a_big_cause_of_confusion_is_that_the_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-a-big-cause-of-confusion-is-that-the-male.1218869 https://theredarchive.com/post/1218869

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