Men are disingenuous in the dating market

Rach1943 · 2023-06-19T23:40:50+00:00

Hold back for some deep talk here.

The reason why you are experiencing this? The increased efficiency of sexual partner access for both men and women (online dating apps, social media) has led to prioritization of short term instant gratification qualities when selecting partners which men have noticed, which has led to neccesary gamification of the dating market place by men.

Long term qualities such as common values, common interests, honesty, communication responsibility, etc.- you know all the shit that is IMPORTANT for along term relationship has been de-prioritized and replaced by dopamine induced qualities such as looks, charisma, good "text game", status, e.g. how "shiny' a person appears on a profile or on social media. I'm not saying those long term things don't matter or don't come into play - I'm saying you DON'T GET TO ENTERTAIN THOSE LONG TERM THINGS until you pass the "short term" filter.

Men have learned that being patient, being honest, focusing on intentional converstations/getting to know the other person slowly is not rewarded in this dating arena. This is because these things take time to grow - and people want instant gratification. you will get replaced by the next shiny guy who has worked on his "dating marketing image" - his curated pictures showing interesting hobbies, shirtless in the saraha desert, in a tuxedo at a wedding with a fitted suit, his texts and interactions which are incredibly charming becuase he has spent time focusing on getting laid/getting sex. it is a game to him. And that poor guy who isn't trying to "just get laid" seems like a white piece of bread compared to him - that one guy whom probably is a good long term prospect. But you won't even realize it because you are caught up in the whirlwind of the emotional high offered by the "top guy" - so intoxicating that you keep doing it knowing its bad for you, until it's too late and he kicks you out of his condo overlooking the city at 2am, and texts his buddies "just smashed another one!".

So normal men, fed up, just accept it as "it is what it is", and feel like they have to "play the game" and become more like the top guys. at least they are getting sex right? and maybe if they get sex they can get a relationship? or maybe they end up gamify the system so much that they realize how much sex they can get for free and decide to not enter a relationship until they find someone that knocks their socks off - I mean, theyve spent the past year of their lives with women choosing f-boys over them, why not have some fun now?

Also, embodied both kinds of men at various times in my life. I can tell you that being the "charming player" gets women hooked way way way more easily than the guy with serious intentional dating who doesnt spend a lot of time working on "game". Two of my relationships started with me as the "player" guy. However, when I was dating intentionally, I can bet you that a lot of the women that did not stick with me because they didn't "feel it" (aka I didnt give them that dopamine rush), wouldve stuck with me if I had used my short term strategy. You have to also realize that alot of the qualities that "hook" a women are more naturally embodied by the "player" style and NOT the "intentional serious dater" style.

And that's where a lot of these men come from. I'm not saying its right or its fair, im saying telling you how it is and why it may happen.

Alot of men do this not becuase they WANT TO, but because they HAVE TO.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-06-19T23:22:34+00:00

I haven't had this experience in dating. Most guys (who showed interest)* are pretty nice and want a relationship with me afaik. I've been out of the game for a long time though. I think I am pretty good at charming certain types of guys so that helps.

*ETA

DatingAdviceGiver101 · 2023-06-20T00:14:53+00:00

> Most men just want sex

I mean yeah, most guys do want sex. Not many guys are asexual and people have to get over the fact that it's normal to want to engage in adult relations.

But I think it's not accurate to say that guys only want sex. There's plenty of men out there who want the whole package that a romantic relationship brings. Which includes, but isn't limited to just sex.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-06-19T23:34:04+00:00

I spent most of my life being very commitment minded. During most of that time few women wanted me. I eventually got a few LTRs but they did not end well. Those experiences leave me seeking something more casual now but I'm very upfront about that.

I feel for women who are lied to for sex. But I also see women usually going after guys who are very attractive and have commitment red flags and/or a history of being a player. I still have empathy because I've also acted irrationally and hurt myself, but I also wonder why women do this so often.

Preme2 · 2023-06-19T22:38:08+00:00

Most men just want sex and they see dating as a game

Tell me you’re dating the same guy without telling me you’re dating the same guy. The reason women are having these experiences is because they’re all trying to share the top few men. Yes, you will be treated like an option. Don’t be surprised. Many women, few men. The odds will not be in their favor long term. Many women believe they are the exception.

eefr · 2023-06-20T00:05:25+00:00

Most men just want sex and they see dating as a game.

It hasn't been my experience that this is true of most men. It is definitely true of some men, but men are no less emotionally complex than women and ultimately most people want love and companionship in addition to sex.

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2023-06-19T23:31:16+00:00

Y'all keep getting pumped and dumped by chads then project it onto every man in your bitter thought space. There's PLENTY of people in stable, loving, long term relationships. AVERAGE men WITH AVERAGE women (as women keep reiterating). Just stop. Really

UneastAji · 2023-06-19T22:37:11+00:00

Pump and dump is actually not a recurring nor common phenomenon.

Most men do escalate commitment despite it is women's job, which is disingenuous to men.

The dating market is also greatly in favor of women because there's permanently a surplus of men until people are 50 year old.

If a woman faces a lot of issues with pump and dump, the problem is her and entirely her.

imaginousinternaught · 2023-06-19T23:26:12+00:00

Its not free sex, its mutual sex. If you seek something in exchange for sex "you" "provide", you are not making love. You are trading.

zaph239 · 2023-06-19T23:38:17+00:00

Pure bulls**t, men get married all the time, tons of men are in long term relationships.

The problem is dating apps have convinced you you get a guy out of your league. Sure a top 5% guy will f**k you but they are never going to marry you.

You can face reality or you can whine here till you hit the wall and no man wants you.

figuringLifeIsGood · 2023-06-19T23:52:59+00:00

speak for urself. men will give you money for nothing if ur really nice and offer sex, just don’t give them sex

resultsmatter1 · 2023-06-20T00:48:07+00:00

If you were a man the prevailing wisdom would be it’s a you problem better yourself.

As such, the fact that you pick losers who pump and dump you is a you problem. Better yourself, hit the gym, go to therapy, be less boring. Clearly women who want it are able to find relationships with stable guys

Sad_Top1743 · 2023-06-19T23:06:29+00:00

*all of the men I’m attracted to want me just for sex

This is why hypergamy is a double edged sword my friend

Far_Significance2023 · 2023-06-19T23:25:25+00:00

Only men that do that are men with abundance of options.

If women did not choose the same top 10% men and did not open the legs first day, then this would not happen to them.

Since women control sexual market, this is their responsibility.

lolthankstinder · 2023-06-19T23:40:54+00:00

According to Pew research, only 17% of U.S. women aged 30-49 claim to be single. Of the billions of guys on the planet, you're obviously doing something to select/filter guys and keep selecting/filtering guys you dislike. Rather than introspect and/or change how you filter, you just pathologize male sexual desire and condemn the entirety of men as disingenuous.

If more women are projected to be single, it's probably because this mindset of delusional misandry is on the rise. Women would rather blame and hate the entirety of men than lower their standards lol.

PrinceArchie · 2023-06-20T00:46:28+00:00

It is just so crazy to me how this argument women think holds water at all. Imagine if ALL men had the option between three types of women because there was an abundance of women on dating apps:

The ordinary and very plain looking girl, some who are occasionally above average, has a job, generally normal person
The adventurous girl who doesnt want commitment, isnt looking for your money and varies between plain and good looking. Might skew a bit on the side of monetarily unstable, definitely not ready to settle down financially either.
The obvious influencer artificial hyper sexualized gold digger. Entirely financially dependent, overtly leverages thier sexual interest in exchange for partnership.

Now imagine these same men complaining that their experience with option 2 and 3 is terrible because these women lack personality, integrity, maturity, only like to mess around but that ALL women are like that. Then imagine women coming out can countering with "well there are plenty of women in option 1 who do want to just have a normal relationship" and then these men having the audacity of saying "well I might as well go for option 2 & 3 because they all just want me for my money anyway. At least 2 & 3 are exciting and hot". Like come on. WHAT YOU WANT is the same. Actually the definition of insanity, keep going for the same people expecting different results ffs.

AdobiWanKenobi · 2023-06-19T23:19:56+00:00

most men just want sex

This is a you problem not men problem. This entire post reeks of it being your fault, not men at large. You are dating the same kind of people over and over again.

yet men use women for free sex all the time.

If only that were true. The top 20% of men on dating apps are, the rest really aren’t.

2023-06-20T01:02:22+00:00

I am not going to disagree with your observations but rather your conclusions. I don't think this is men's fault but rather patriarchy. Patriarchy as a social institution socialize and condition men to be sex cravings animals. Also I think men can change and desire commitment if they were socialized properly. But I can empathize with women who are frustrated with modern men you have every right to be so. That's why we need to work together to create a better world

Spyro7x3 · 2023-06-20T01:09:01+00:00

Its a catch 22 because in my experience as a man committing to a woman and being upfront about wanting a real relationship has resulted in cheating on the females part 90% of the time. Only ever had 1 out of 10 GFs that didn't eventually cheat.

You don't like the games when you get burned but really you love the games when you're winning.

Reasonable_Listen514 · 2023-06-20T02:04:22+00:00

The top guys in the dating market do that because they have many options. It sounds like you're chasing men above your own SMV, and giving it up to guys who don't see you as relationship material. Either that, or you are demonstrating behavior that signals you aren't relationship material. This is what happens when average women chase top men.

When women date in their own league, they are more likely to find men who actually want relationships with them.

Samiam0911 · 2023-06-20T13:35:11+00:00

Disingenuous or not they aren’t “breaking the law” by getting “free sex” from a a willing consensual partner. What I don’t get about some of us women is how we sit up here and act like we aren’t getting what we want out of these situations, unless it’s a rape/SA you’re getting what you want out of pure desire of your own, I’d hope. You got what you wanted, mutual sexual satisfaction if ya’ll are hooking up more than a few times. Or is there an alternative reason? As a collective we as women need to really dig deep to find the motivation of why we do what we do and clear up expectations on the other party’s involved so we don’t feel like we’ve been finessed out of of some vagina.

iamthehype29 · 2023-06-20T16:46:08+00:00

Most men don't even get the opportunity of a woman replying back to his dms so wtf are you on about? You are literally referring to the top 20 or 30% of men jfc.

This is how out of touch women are in the dating world when it comes to men.

Yet men use women for free sex all the time.

You mean the minority of men who have options? Lol

abaxeron · 2023-06-20T19:30:05+00:00

Most men just want sex

Have you asked "most men"? What kind of a subset of a subset of a subset of men do you deal with while ignoring 90+% of male population to land at such conclusions? Ok, let's look at the numbers.

https://totalsororitymove.com/is-my-number-of-sex-partners-normal/

Does this look like most men hopping from one pussy to the next like a bumblebee on drugs?

I've seen too many guys in late 20s still fixated on their first partner (often a drunkard slut who just wanted to scratch an itch) to take such notions seriously. Go on AskMen and ask them if they'd sacrifice their N-count beyond 1 if it meant guaranteed lifetime love and partnership.

TheUnlikeliestChad · 2023-06-19T23:00:35+00:00

How many times must you be fooled before the shame is on you?

You're not even right anyway. Many of us get into sexual relationships with dating being an option, not a given. Dating does not automatically follow from sex. If the sex was bad or you start to become annoying, I'm going to bounce. Feeling used doesn't mean you were used. Not all feelings are valid or correct.

Workaholiconew · 2023-06-19T23:11:38+00:00

None start like that. Men don't want to be disingenuous, and we start being very upfront. The thing is, women don't leave men any other choice.

Men cannot force women to accept that we need sex almost as much as we need sex, we call them "sexual starvation" and "thrist" for fucks sake, it cant be more obvious.
Men cannot force women to be more than just sexual service suppliers, we call for more but it is always "you dont do enough"... even when it is clear we do everything we possibly can for pussy alone... and a 10th of the men out there cant get it. Alone.
We cannot force women to accept the truth that they live in a fantasy world created by us... because they will say it is all gaslighting and bullshit.

We cant force women to do anything.

All we can do is watch and do the bare minimum for our continual survival and mental health, which includes obtaining sex.... that is why we do what we do.

870yungin · 2023-06-20T00:56:08+00:00

When women push above they’re league they make post like this.😂

Barneysparky · 2023-06-19T22:47:37+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Happy_Nuclear_End · 2023-06-19T23:00:02+00:00

I mean modern women not offer a lot besides sex so it makes sense that men would only seek this as prostitution is largely illegal and make absolutely no sense to play in the dating market as a honest person when this don't give you results, if women love the lie men will lie, if women respond positively to men that treat them like disposable flashlight men will treat them like disposable fleshlights.

Women as the choosers in human mating create the mating experience.

Ag116797 · 2023-06-19T23:27:31+00:00

Yeah, op because women don't lie and manipulate men all the time. Women, good men, bad, what else is new.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2023-06-19T23:32:55+00:00

Good. I think this is how men should treat women. Because most women have never given men the light of day. Besides, women rather choose these men than a slightly less attractive man. So it’s really a trade-off you chose for.

Boo hoo!

bifewova234 · 2023-06-19T23:26:26+00:00

"When men just want to fulfil their superficial desires and dont really see you as a human it is a big turn off."

I think this is a big lie and that a lot of women are turned on by that.

DoinIt989 · 2023-06-20T01:25:51+00:00

Men in the dating market are more likely to want relationships than women, imo. The majority anyway, of course there's a player minority.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-06-20T00:36:45+00:00

I’ve found most men don’t just want sex, some do, but not most in my experience. They want consistent sex, companionship, and a mother basically, without having to do a lot in return. Now if sex is off the table for a while, they are quick to bail… but that doesn’t mean that’s all they want, it’s a priority to them, but they want to extract everything you can offer. (And of course, plenty of men do give back, it just depends.)

roastpork99 · 2023-06-20T01:49:52+00:00

Oh dear.

You sound like an absolutely miserable person.

If you've got that much of a negative attitude towards men then perhaps for your own peace of mind you shouldn't consider dating them (perhaps you're already doing that, if so then well congratulations).

As an example if I said something like this:

"Women are disingenuous in the dating market

Most women just want free meals and maybe a tall guy and they see dating as a game. They will never explicitly say it, but most don't care about anything more than that. They will lead men on and make them think that they like him and then once they get that gift they will ghost".

A bit on the nose, and I fully appreciate that some men on PPD believe the above, but clearly any reasonable person knows that it's simply not true, anyone that truly believes most women only want free meals/money out of men is delusional.

If you truly believe that most men only want sex and nothing more then you are delusional, there's a whole body of evidence that says otherwise. Either that or you've had bad experiences (sorry if you have), but that doesn't mean that most men behave in the way you outlined.

For example (and this is after the most brief of Google searches), the following Pew Research Center article:

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/

Says that 69% of US adults are partnered. That's over 2/3. If most men only cared about sex and nothing more then I'm struggling to see how that would be possible.

bluestjuice · 2023-06-19T23:57:23+00:00

Eh, I think this is true to an extent but you are taking a thing that is true some of the time and generalizing it to all of the time.

It would certainly be best if everyone could be transparent about their objectives and sort into groups of like-minded folks and go from there. But of course that means that people who have or perceive themselves as having a relatively small potential pool would be self-limiting, so they’re disincentivized to do so.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2023-06-20T10:38:09+00:00

Demand creates supply. You get what you reward.

If women sleep with a certain type of guy and other guys see it, then why wouldn't they at least try to get the same experience? They will absolutely date the right girl, but it's not their fault when they meet her and it turns that she is (or acts as if) at a 5+ dick count and sleeps with men before establishing exclusivity/relationship. Then he sees what those women actually do and reward, so why would he try to get more than sex?

Yet men use women for free sex all the time.

It's not free for men at all. They have to put in a lot of effort and some money, too. Besides, women get sex for that sex. Funny, how trading sex for sex is "free" for them. But if they think sex is worthless, how come they don't give it to most men?

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sushiloveryum · 2023-06-19T22:48:00+00:00

Women like sex too dude. And also… I don’t think that’s true about men. I’ve been proposed to three times. If what you are saying is true no guy would ever get that far if all they wanted was sex. Most women and men want a partner, someone they can spend time with, someone to care for and be cared by.

Morgothe · 2023-06-20T01:00:24+00:00

Yeah the men who do this are overtly physically attractive and have had zero problems dating or finding women. Your average man who just wants to a find someone is not some sexual predator who pumps and dumps the second they get a hold of a woman.

A challenge i love to ask women who talk about toxic men like this especially their own experiences is to post photos of these guys to get a look at what they look like. 8/10 times(if they actually post) they’re very good looking or are in amazing shape, which explains everything. I haven’t read into any study for this but I have a hunch that attractive men are more likely to have or get sociopathic tendencies.

Perhaps not going after players and very good looking men?

LogicalArchon · 2023-06-20T01:07:56+00:00

The reason you think that is you are choosing to spend your time with men who are more likely to act that way

sansan6 · 2023-06-20T01:09:10+00:00

No not true. I feel like a broken record. Both men and women both exhibit this behavior just like almost all human behavior difference. If your are a straight women I’m assuming you don’t pursue women in that many so you don’t see that side of them. Which is usually the case with most people who try to generalize one gender in dating.

Safinated · 2023-06-20T03:56:26+00:00

I wouldn’t say “most” are straight up disingenuous, just opportunistic. But it doesn’t matter because the effect is the same

A minority are deliberate liars and exploiters

Gtedx · 2023-06-20T04:27:44+00:00

Most men want relationships with high quality women, but will accept sex from low quality women to scratch the itch.

They just don’t want relationships with YOU.

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-06-20T05:39:43+00:00

Stats show men want LTRs at the same rate as women and slightly more men want to be fathers than women want to be mothers. The idea that men generally just want sex and nothing else is just a sexist assumption as well as a lie women tell themselves who do not make good partners who would rather blame “men” for their relationship troubles than to take a look at themselves as to why they can’t have successful LTRs

DimensionVegetable37 · 2023-06-20T05:50:54+00:00

Honestly I dont see the issue?

Women want Attention and Validation. Men want some form of Intimacy. Women use dating apps, social media and life to get their fill of it at any time without effort. But men?

Mens basic needs arent met at all. Men easily go months, Years. And if they get a one night stand? it took a ton of work prior to get it. Can you blame men for "just wanting sex" when they are starved from all other forms of love in general? Sex is generally the first form of love they can get. If they strive for others? Women judge them as clingy or weak.

Can women honestly say that they can go months to years without a single DM? No likes, no compliments? Not a single human hitting on them or showing them love? An entire world that treats them like a problem unless they speed every other moment "Self improving"?

No. Women would fall into deep depressions and become suicidal just experiencing a small fraction of a mans world. So why is it wrong for men to "Just want sex"? Is it bad for the homeless to "Just want food"? Women are sitting in the store with pockets full of cash with cheffs crowding her to give her free meals. And yet shes complaining about the homeless man outside "Just wanting food".

Its a stupid complaint. Most men want relationships. Most men dont cheat. Most men want to experience and show love. But Most women dont care. Because most women just want to be selfish, have fun, have life handed to them. And women only complain about dating to shift the blame to why she is still single in order to keep the game going. Every single woman could be married within 5 days if she wanted.

1 day on tinder for an ugly woman is equal to a year+ for an attractive man.
1 Year on Tinder for a woman is equal to 5500+ years for an attractive man.

Thats one app of many. Plus Instagram, social media and real life.

If you cant find love while having access to nearly 10,000 Years of choices each year.
Then men "just wanting sex" isnt the issue. You are the issue only wanting men who
just want sex.

CombinationMore4630 · 2023-06-20T13:48:49+00:00

I don't understand, you can easily go find someone to fuck if you put time and effort into going out at night.

I'm talking like 5 nights a week 52 weeks a year.

My 20s and 30s were exactly this.

IMO, if you want to fuck, your 20s and 30s is the time to do it.

Now if my wife wants sex it has to be before 5 0m or else we're too tired.

Beebum5 · 2023-06-20T17:34:41+00:00

Isn’t a man problem, it’s more of said “happily single women” have 0 standards and talk to fucking losers but expect something great out of them. There are so so so so many amazing men out there.

zerofeetpersecond · 2023-06-23T21:39:46+00:00

Most men don’t participate in the dating game.

Title	Men are disingenuous in the dating market
Author	Glowupgirl111
Upvotes	3
Comments	178
Date	June 19, 2023 10:31 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14dsyfu/men_are_disingenuous_in_the_dating_market/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-disingenuous-in-the-dating-market.1223130 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223130

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