Got told "thats not a hill you want to die on"

EsqueStudios · 2023-09-14T14:56:12+00:00

Men deserve a place to talk about mens issues, just as women deserve a place to talk about womens issues.

If they feel intimidated by men talking about mens issues, thats all the more reason to talk about mens issues.

LateralThinker13 · 2023-09-14T15:03:20+00:00

Don't defend the sub. You won't win.

Instead, ask her some questions. Specifically:

1) Do men and women deserve to have the same legal rights?

2) Do men and women deserve to have the same legal protections?

3) Do men and women deserve to have the same consequences to breaking laws?

If she says no to any of them, she's a sexist bigot. If she says yes to all of them, congratulations, she's an MRA.

Tends to shut them up at least.

Worldly-Designer1686 · 2023-09-14T14:29:47+00:00

You don't agree all women are perfect angels and victims? You are an incel who hate women .How dare you think otherwise 😡😡😡

barkmagician · 2023-09-14T15:24:02+00:00

Short answer:

Women(not all but most) got used to preferential treatment. Men used to worship women and put them on the pedestal and treat them like goddesses/angels who do no wrong. They are worried about chivalry starting to die.
This sub acknowledges that just like men, women also have flaws. This feels threatening from a feminist's perspective
Anyone who doesnt worship women at this point is labeled as "incel" or "misogynist". They are just buzzwords nowadays so I wouldnt worry about it.

I joined this sub to raise awareness and to help protect young men (I always wanted a son, and daughter too but I dont earn enough to afford kids). I want young men to also find a good wife and have a healthy marriage like I do.

LoopyPro · 2023-09-14T15:25:53+00:00

For whatever reason, they seem to think that it's a zero-sum game, where people that raise awareness to men's issues somehow take away awareness from women's issues.

Dry-Pianist1853 · 2023-09-14T18:48:08+00:00

Odd part is most feminist act like legit incels

Exciting-Parfait-776 · 2023-09-14T15:35:26+00:00

That’s sounds like a friend you need to spend a lot less time with.

Tiny_Professional358 · 2023-09-14T16:00:10+00:00

You know the rules women are “oppressed” so only women deserve their own space. Men however are “privileged” and don’t face any gender specific problems so how dare they have their own space.🙄

hottake_toothache · 2023-09-14T16:05:16+00:00

The idea of people caring about men disgusts a lot of people.

ZenofZer0 · 2023-09-14T18:56:59+00:00

Cause she’s a feminist twat with no good ideas and can’t refute the arguments based on merits so she attacks character blindly and will look for the tiniest anecdote to build a straw man argument. There is no reasoning with those people. I would say to stop trying to engage with people like this. There’s no good that can come of it.

2muchtequila · 2023-09-14T15:07:58+00:00

You can try to explain that there are a spectrum of people in any movement. Maybe start by asking her if she's ever heard people who identify as feminists say something along the lines of "All men suck." Does that one woman saying that mean all feminists hate men? Do you hate the male members of your family? Do you hate me?

Then you can start talking about provable issues that effect men. Workplace fatalities, the draft, suicide rates, custody rates, support for abuse or or homelessness. It's also helpful to point out that just because men have societal issues that effect them shouldn't be construed as taking away from issues that effect women. Both are bad, the existence of one doesn't negate the other. We shouldn't look at gender rights as a competition, but more a shared goal of equality.

papertiger22 · 2023-09-14T15:13:26+00:00

it's quite funny bc whenever women say things like this they tell on themselves. if they only think sex specific spaces exist for sexist purposes just imagine what they talk about in women only spaces. "obviously men only want to exclude women so they can be misogynists" how's that projection working out for you?

JazzFan1998 · 2023-09-14T16:20:25+00:00

So does she also favor getting rid of woman supporting forums? If not, why not?

wwwhistler · 2023-09-14T18:20:23+00:00

many women have fully internalized the idea of..."if i can't watch you, you will get up to no good"

it assumes all men are brainless ill mannered sadistic beasts. incapable of controlling their own impulses and need the constant supervision of the much better civilized Women.

it is founded in distrust, hatred and outdated stereotypes.

it says more about the speaker than about the subject.

AcrobaticDig5710 · 2023-09-14T19:27:22+00:00

Consider how they publicly call every male space toxic. Any guy who is trying to help young men get the spotlight put on them and are attacked constantly unless they push the feminist narrative. It took kme a while to see it, but once I seen it I cannot unseen it. There's tons of female personalities and influencers that publicly shit all over men and blame the world on them. The second a guy pops up that says anything close to women should take accountability and that men's feelings and mating preferences are valid, they are public enemy no.1. Honestly man, do your thing. Your feelings and way you are ok. Yiur Masculinity is not toxic, only people are toxic, not specific genders. Align yourself with women that respect men, they exist.

Riff_Raff5150 · 2023-09-14T14:00:59+00:00

Um, you're either for your own survival or you're a cuck waiting for a sacrificial release.

Anyone who doesn't understand that now isn't paying attention

AbysmalDescent · 2023-09-14T19:26:04+00:00

This is how women end up controlling the mainstream narrative. If men did shit like this, it wouldn't really be sustainable. They would very quickly end up with no friends, no job and no relationships, to say the least. Women can do this because their value is secured, both socially and romantically. People will also take her side, no matter how hateful or extreme it is, because they want to please women. There's almost no accountability for her attitude. Behavior like this is exactly why extremism combined with female privilege is so dangerous, especially when consider how common it is for women to just band together in support of each other's chauvinism. Men who disagree with them, no matter how right or justified they are, often just end up being silenced and isolated.

KrazyJazz · 2023-09-14T15:07:29+00:00

You did the right thing, man. Your reaction is normal, healthy. She was neither your friend nor an ally.

Now was she deeply involved in your life? Do you have mutual friends? Do you work with her or does she know what you do and where?

Be really careful here. You never know what an upset feminist can do to retaliate, just because you subscribe to something she doesn't like....

kaijyuu2016 · 2023-09-14T15:03:19+00:00

You dodged a bullet

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-09-14T14:15:22+00:00

I'm not sure they do think, that's the problem.

There are many who would blindly follow such accusations instead of speaking out lest they themselves be accused of witchcraft. Others use such bludgeons as a way of proving their righteousness.

Do not play their games.

hehimCA · 2023-09-14T15:10:54+00:00

Yep, and I believe it’s the most important thing to change because from that all arguments can flow. They try to shut us up and say we have no right to advocate for our own well-being. That’s BS.

ButWhatOfGlen · 2023-09-14T17:25:48+00:00

ANY deviation from "the narrative" will be punished, quickly and severely. It's like any groupthink or dictatorship.

Yes it is, the hill you need to stand your ground on. Basic human rights and equality are, and have always been, worth dying for. This time, surprise surprise, it's feminism with the jackboots on throats, albeit in the manipulative, social death methods not beatings and firing squads.

Minimum_Direction_43 · 2023-09-14T21:45:34+00:00

I don't see this sub as women hating at all. I do think we routinely are pointing out the hypocrisy and entitlement of the modern woman / feminist. And I think that is fair.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-14T17:13:54+00:00

I think she might object that you think men have the right to fight for our rights. Some women think men are privileged.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2023-09-14T17:34:58+00:00

Should ask her what exact hill she thinks that is.

NoDecentNicksLeft · 2023-09-14T19:59:21+00:00

> It amazes me that some woman really think us having our own spaces is somehow sexist or being "oppressive" to them.

You nailed it. I think at least some of them are going for the jugular, cutting off our support networks and intimidating, gaslighting us into not raising our issues, as if attention or empathy was a zero-sum game, a resource to fight over, and into not exchanging our experience, not drawing any generalized conclusions, treating every problem as an isolated incident and preferably not a problem at all, preferably just not talk about it. It's a PR war move, a form of image control.

Cotehill · 2023-09-14T20:39:41+00:00

The term Incel is being used as a projection for domestic terrorist. Considering 30% of American males under 30 are virgins, that means there are something like 10m male incels in that age bracket in America alone.

There are many more women murderers of that age range right now in Prisons in America than the total number of victims of Incel murder ever.

What’s more - the number of femcels is apparently even higher. And if you go to their forums, you will se they are no different in Their hate than the small number of worldwide male incels on their forums.

The disgusting people who hate the other gender are, in line with nearly every post on Reddit, shown to be women who are all backed up by their hate filled cabal of followers.

It is only their hate (#killallmen) that has led to the need for spaces for men to talk about their rights and their issues in Todays society.

Only respectful people receive respectful comments.

Away_Entrance1185 · 2023-09-14T21:07:18+00:00

Just think about it, how many exclusive male spaces are there? And then, how many exclusive female spaces are even open for transwomen? In a way, transwomen are literally the most popular and successful Men's Rights Activists today because they manage to fight female gender segregationism.

Meanwhile the Girl Guides typically don't allow boys while most Boy Scouts allow girls. Exclusive male spaces are rare and wherever they exist they are treated with great suspicion and often subject to conspiracy theories. Female spaces are celebrated and protected.

SouthernSeeker · 2023-09-14T23:32:21+00:00

The appropriate response is "Hamburger isn't a hill I want to die on, and to ensure I don't, I need men's rights".

Probably too late now, though.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-14T17:36:30+00:00

I am glad she is your former friend. But at the end of the day, in current social climate you can run out of friends fast.

Tanman55555 · 2023-09-14T20:08:52+00:00

People that use the word incel seem like they forget that all of us are just people It doesnt come from a place of useful criticism either

Correct-Contract742 · 2023-09-14T21:36:19+00:00

Bro it’s the same reason MGTOW/red pill subs are essentially wiped (or hidden) from Reddit, it has massive potential to become a big threat to society + feminism. By threat, I don’t mean anything in the form of extremism but more so just clocking out the idea of marriage and not being the typical “obedient” drone modern society and feminism expects from a men as a whole. But the reality is, more and more men are waking up from the bullshit we’ve been fed regardless and because we are now witnessing the horror with own our eyes in these twisted times. Honestly, don’t fight it/ don’t argue (especially on Reddit), and continue on with your life.

KelVarnsenIII · 2023-09-14T22:09:22+00:00

I guess she'd be willing to Die on "Are we dating the same guys" hill

This sub has helped me deal with issues about how I'm unfairly treated by women, anti-family courts, and the entire feminist driven media and points of view we're exposed too daily, but told over and over that our wants, needs, spaces are not worthy and unnecessary.

DiversityIsDivisive · 2023-09-14T23:37:40+00:00

A good response is to point out that when feminism first arose, the sexists were very quick to spread the stereotype they are all a bunch of old maids, angry and resentful that they cannot get a man. Then ask "do you really think what you're doing here is any different?"

See if that's a hill they're willing to die on

Heavy_Grand2526 · 2023-09-15T02:28:31+00:00

I just want men to be treated just as well as women are in this world.

Acousmetre78 · 2023-09-15T07:50:12+00:00

That shit kind of annoys me to be honest. I went to college with people like that who scream at you about their emotions as they invaded our spaces. Then they began to police our spaces. Us guys ended up literally just going to a parking lot to chat and have our own space where we can admit feeling depressed about things or making jokes until midnight.

No-Desk560 · 2023-09-15T11:05:54+00:00

Woman here. I’m a part of this sub because I love my father and my mom screwed him over during the divorce. I became an attorney and a men’s rights advocate because of it. Tell your friend that.

Imissyourgirlfriend2 · 2023-09-14T15:43:04+00:00

Anyone who calls anyone an "incel" hates women.

some_random_guy_007 · 2023-09-14T17:19:48+00:00

People here arent even women haters lol. We just want equality, women not being oppressed in their way and men not being oppressed the way we are oppressed. We want women to understand us, and if talking about men issues is sexist and mysogynistic, then im proudly am

Aluto7 · 2023-09-14T14:42:10+00:00

Why not invite them here? Then make an AMA thread, or a thread with a list of questions. Let's teach people who we are through example.

Johntoreno · 2023-09-14T14:13:08+00:00

No offence, why do you fucking care so much about what other Women think, do women care about Men think!? We've been called incels all this time. It doesn't mean anything anymore.

knight_call1986 · 2023-09-14T17:32:24+00:00

People like that are always going to think what they think. Sometimes it is good to let people be loud and wrong.

Some goofy girl who doesn't at least want to do herself the service of learning about something so she can then hate it properly really isn't worth your time bro.

Dry-Pianist1853 · 2023-09-14T18:47:19+00:00

Why the hell does everyone know each other on reddit? Do people use this place like instagram?

SnooPets2522 · 2023-09-14T19:52:10+00:00

It's just a projection. I mean look at the bunch of pro-feminist subs. Aren't they full of hatred towards men? Aren't people in there being sexist to men? I'm not saying that this sub doesn't have members with the same attitude towards women because there are guys that hate women in here. The point is women have lots of spaces to talk about their issues and men don't have much of these spaces. It's not sexist nor oppressive to anybody to let men have at least one place to talk about men's issues

Njaulv · 2023-09-14T20:54:56+00:00

Wanting human rights for men is not a hill you want to die on eh? Sounds like she is brainwashed.

ChancesLowButNotZero · 2023-09-14T23:07:23+00:00

Well I do hate women and I have earned it. Not all women are shit but all of them can destroy you at any time and with just false accusations. Women are openly against men but think they are entitled to be that way. Who cares if I can't stand them? Im no incel. I do not actively plot or conspire against anyone. Women do this and always. The evil is real. Stay away! You can have healthy on line women friendships but you may just be helping them stalk you. I do not have to like them. Does not make me gay. Does not make me evil.

EarnMeowShower · 2023-09-15T01:26:34+00:00

Western women have taken the unspoken position that so much as disagreeing with anyone born with a vagina, including post-op transmen, is misogyny and marks you as a dangerous, violent, ticking time bomb incel who needs to be raped to death in prison.

I'd like to think there's a breaking point, but, it's been 21 years of waiting for me, and not one fucking gods damned thing has changed.

Kandorek · 2023-09-15T02:17:06+00:00

Just tell her that what she said is hatefull, sexist and biggoted and that you choose to not talk to her about that topic if she acts that way from the getgo.

lewandisney69 · 2023-09-15T04:52:42+00:00

We need to normalize ignoring annoying ass people like OP did

Sharp-Mousse-7994 · 2023-09-15T05:47:47+00:00

What is an incel? And yes, the values and convictions I have, I will die on that hill, every time.

Dr_Locomotive · 2023-09-15T06:50:28+00:00

Don't worry about her. You are not and won't be that last person to lose a friend because you persue the truth. Being an intellectual have some costs. Find new fiends and grow wiser.

wildlight · 2023-09-14T19:17:03+00:00

I think the big difference is that men's spaces are aware that within men's spaces some toxic ideas exist but that that isn't justification for those spaces to not exist but that men's advocates need to be diligent to promote a positive culture in men's spaces and not be over run by sexist ideas, while also finding a balance and being a safe space for men.

Sadly feminist spaces largely are not self aware of their own problems and don't want to accept they could do better, while pointing the finger elsewhere as being the problem.

The fact is that both men's space and feminist spaces can do better and should strive to do so, but men still are fighting jist for a right to have spaces that are accepted as having any value, which really just creates conditions for more toxic ideas to spread in men's spaces because the spaces don't often feel safe when you're attacked just for being a part of the disscussion, bad actors don't care about any of that so they often have much more freedom to influence men's spaces with their ideas. Men's spaces sadly become fragmented then because we have to get more specific on particular issues to address problems in a constructive way and address things more as single issues and build spaces that way or risk men feeling unsafe participating, or have large spaces where issues mostly only focus on airing grievances rather then constructive and proactive dialog and this is where toxic ideas have more room to spread and seem like they represent the majority of men's opinions.

orzhavmahfriens · 2023-09-14T14:07:49+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RoyalDog57 · 2023-09-14T21:47:26+00:00

I mean I won't act like there aren't people like that here... but most people don't like 3rd wave feminism not women in general. I've seen the feminist sub reddit they rarely talk about MTGOW or men's rights movements they talk about ALL men the majority of the time. And then they have posts like "why do men think feminism hates them" when the post right above it is some shit about how all men are pigs and rapists etc. Etc.

Thomjones · 2023-09-14T20:27:08+00:00

Uhh. Look, you have to come to terms with the reality of the situation: There are a lot of incels and woman haters in this sub. Now does that mean all of us are? No. Not does it mean we cant have our own spaces. Just ask her what subreddit she would recommend then. Guaranteed it won't be a space for just men.

Marvinkmooneyoz · 2023-09-15T06:17:50+00:00

"Full" of, absolutely not. Lots of people here have real issues, like having no custody of their kids/visitation for no real reason. Incels, we really shouldnt be even acknowledging the use of the term unless they are using it correctly. Access to sex isnt really a mens rights issue per se. Yes, there are vocal anti-feminists on this group, plenty that lack persepctive. But this is a VALID issue, and a valid group, and there is a lot of very real productive conversation on here.

Kyoshiiku · 2023-09-14T21:32:32+00:00

I’ll be honest, I saw on some thread in the last few months some incel/red pill comment being one of the top comments of the thread and when calling it out and saying that we can do better than this I got mass downvoted.

I still stay on this sub because I believe in men right and there is legitimate issue to talk about and if everyone leave because of the few that are actually hateful it will become an incel echo chamber.

These comment are not the norm but I still think we can do better as a community that care about mens right to not give legitimacy to these claim about this sub by downvoting and not giving visibility to these few hateful people.

TipiTapi · 2023-09-14T16:43:32+00:00

...but she is right.

This sub defends a drug addict who refuses to touch his wife for three years and gets divorced as a result.

Like bro seriously. This sub is a cesspool, dont defend it you will sound unreasonable.

Historical-Age4661 · 2023-09-14T14:17:43+00:00

I wouldn't call this a safe space if yall generalize and hate on women every single that has been put on here, y'all are more focused on hating on women than being in it for men's rights, there's a reason they think like that, and there's a reason many subreddits will ban you for participating in this specific sub, subs that aren't even women oriented, and that is saying something.

LyzeTheKid · 2023-09-14T20:24:33+00:00

the reality is that most “Men’s Rights Advocates” are raging misogynists let’s not beat around the bush here or try to play coy

2023-09-14T18:35:08+00:00

How old was she? Sounds like early twenties, typically i don't have serious conversations with women in this age group

liquorbaron · 2023-09-14T21:23:42+00:00

You shouldn't have refuted anything but rather have ignored her. Most women don't have an actual opinion of their own but rather the opinion of what mainstream society is promoting.

Final_Acanthisitta_7 · 2023-09-15T02:07:18+00:00

A person like that simply wants to control you, man or woman.

amodernmodder · 2023-09-15T03:06:46+00:00

Sounds like you ran into my ex...

Crimson_Whispers · 2023-09-15T04:05:19+00:00

Ask her if she dislikes you or the men in her family? Make it personal then ask her if she would want someone to listen to them in their hard times who will know what it is like being a man.

DTreatz · 2023-09-15T04:54:58+00:00

Say nothing to her, she doesn't actually care, no women do, they group all *TRP* 💊 together anyway, they make no distinctions, they take no nuance, and proving her factually wrong, will do nothing but cause her to double down. It's the feminine strategy.

Why do you even have female "friends" ? lmao

Sensitive-Ad6609 · 2023-09-15T13:10:00+00:00

I don't see that here. I am happy ti be in this sub. 😃

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2023-09-15T19:05:43+00:00

Do she intend to make this a hill to kill on?

hotpotato128 · 2023-09-15T23:28:10+00:00

How did she know you are on this sub?

cum_dragon · 2023-09-16T14:40:50+00:00

"thats not a hill you want to die on"

Weird, someone randomly replied this same thing to a comment of mine a completely unrelated sub. Is this some kind of weird catchphrase these bitter activist loonies are attempting to get off the ground?

Banake · 2023-09-17T20:55:22+00:00

You are better without her.

Title	Got told "thats not a hill you want to die on"
Author	orzhavmahfriens
Upvotes	920
Comments	295
Date	September 14, 2023 1:53 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16ij3xz/got_told_thats_not_a_hill_you_want_to_die_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/got-told-thats-not-a-hill-you-want-to-die-on.1231787 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231787

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