Title. This is slightly reformatted repost of a discussion post based on a moderators comments made to fit the CMV format so if you've already seen this before, that is why/

My view is that there only four general things you have to keep in mind when you are approaching, usually cold approaching, women as a man. Essentially they boil down to simply paying attention, and some level of social acuity that for the average man is obtainable with experience no matter how old you are. However that fact leads to many men claiming that women require them to read their mind, as an excuse to cop out from approaching or dating entirely. In the end I will address 4 common counter arguments to my view.

Poster background:

I am a completely average across most categories young adult man (5'9, average face black male, naturally skinny-athletic build as in i have broader shoulders, abs and some muscle definition)who has dated and approached women in public and got their numbers/social media. I've been rejected quite a bit, but that is life, I never let it deter me. Trial and error is great and its helped hearing the perspective from women I dated or were friends with. I also researched this a bit online getting different opinions and watched videos for other takes on the matter. For the smart-asses, we are talking in regards to the average woman here.

Ill preface this by saying two things

  1. you must know and accept is that women and men have different views on what is creepy, rather, women associate more behaviors than men with creepiness and communicate that comfortability differently often. If you are a man who is interested in dating women, you MUST accept these differences in how our brains work or else explore other options. With that said.
  2. 2. You must have good hygiene, be well groomed, and be free of any repulsive odors

Feel free to just read the bullet points or bolded text, I will include detailed explanation or elaboration of each of the four things below them.

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First thing.

  • Personal space, give her room to breathe and make sure she has multiple avenues to leave the situation if need be, never ever corner her

anecdote:

Something I've always known but never internally compartmentalized until recently. I had a man, about 6'3, muscular as hell, a bit older, make passes at me while I was at my job. When he talked to me he left less than half a forearms distance of space between us and he even put his hands on my shoulders at points despite my attempts at putting distance between us while I helped him. He maintained unbroken eye contact while flirting and laughing at his own jokes, meanwhile i tried my best to keep the topic professional. Everything in my head was screaming HELL NO. Of course I had to be professional, and because I need my job I didn't punch him in his throat as I would've done in any other setting.

And then it dawned on me, so this is how women often feel.

When you're talking to a girl, be mindful of your sexual dimorphic traits, you're probably going to be ~5 inches taller than her and she will know unconsciously or consciously you possess a potential bodily threat to her. But all of this applies even if you're NOT. I don't care and she doesn't care if you're the skinniest nerdiest looking man around.

If you are giving her very little breathing room and god forbid you're cornering her whether you're aware of it or not, you're going to set off a bunch of alarms in her head that say DANGER. Even if she is attracted to you. Always position your body so that at any point she has multiple clear exit from the situation if need be. Do not do THIS under any circumstance with a woman who you are not currently dating or sleeping with and even then, be aware of the situation (example: never in a argument). I don't care if sheds bigger than you, women want to know and feel like they have the ability to leave and aren't trapped. Put YOUR back against the the wall or booth, not hers.

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Second thing.

  • consider your eye contact, not too much, not too little, make sure she can see you approaching her, crucial for approaching a woman you're unfamiliar with

Do not, under any circumstance, approach a woman from a blind spot. All you will do is make her go "what the fuck where did he come from" in her head. The last thing you want to do is trigger a woman's fight or flight instinct the first time you're properly interacting with her. Before you go up to a girl, make sure you you make eye contact first or you are at-least in clear view so she can see you walking up. If you guys make eye contact a couple of times, smile at her and go speak to her if she smiles back. Do NOT stare at her from across the room and not say anything.

When you are talking to her, make eye-contact, but make sure to break it every once and a while. Unbroken steady eye contact is weird alien behavior. Don't be a weird alien. Don't not make eye contact because you'll still appear creepy and or unconfident.

And I can't believe I have to say this, but I've seen some quite worrying comments from men so I will anyway. Do not approach a girl in a dimly lit parking lot at night, at a dimly lit anywhere to where she can hardly see your face or figure correctly, and especially not if on top of all that shes also alone. It should go without saying but I have to say it for some people.

Alright. Now that you're talking to her and she doesn't feel cornered, my next and most important point.

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Third thing

  • before and during, read her body language for signs that she is uncomfortable like closed body language, or if she gives a verbal or non verbal sign she wants the interaction to end such as lack of or one worded replies to everything, don't approach while she's in the middle of an action

This is where most men seem to get confused but its really simple. Is her body language closed off, or open?

let me help you guys out in figuring out if a girl, or anyone really, is uncomfortable talking to you in a given moment. Look at her body language. Are her arms crossed, folded together or at her stomach or chest, are her shoulders hunched over slightly or possibly away from you? Are her feet or her torso pointed away or leaning away from you? Is she giving small or one word responses? Is she looking at literally anyone and everyone else in the room or away from you for the most part to see who can save her? For women you're more familiar with, does she recoil at your or not reciprocate any physical touch? Is she fidgeting, playing with her hair, tapping her foot or making any number of nervous gestures?

It is not a complicated matter, but I cannot blame some people for not knowing these signs. Look at the person you are talking to for signs she doesn't want to be there.

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Fourth thing

  • Keep interactions brief unless a genuine deeper conversation develops naturally, If she displays a couple of the signs of discomfort, find the quickest way to move on from the interaction, and take no as an answer and no answer as a no

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Tying into the third point, if she does display a few signs of uncomfortableness, wrap up the conversation with a "well ive gotta get going/get back to what i was doing, it was nice talking to you/meeting you" and bounce. Also, just because she DOESN'T display any of the above, does not mean she isn't uncomfortable, but you can eliminate most cases this way.

The idea is to be brief, don't take up too much of her or your time. Trying to force a prolonged interaction even if there is some chemistry will make people subconsciously question what do you want from them. What will definitely make a lot of women perceive you as creepy is you attempting to keep talking to them or flirting with them after they've already given several of the non-verbal or verbal cues that they want the interaction to end. And if that was genuinely not your intention, thats okay**, almost everyone, myself included, has done this unintentionally due to lack of social awareness.**

I like to keep it simple. If im at the gym, I may just compliment a girl on her lifts and build a rapport from there. Not long ago I simply told a girl whom I see often but have never spoken to that she's a beast (as in her lift was impressive) and she smiled wide and said thank you and i went from there.

I may make eye contact with a girl if I'm out and about, and if she reciprocates my smile go up to her and just introduce myself, compliment her (i try to compliment something non-physical about her if possible but nothing wrong with telling a girl she's pretty), try to exchange contact information and keep it moving, UNLESS a genuine deeper conversation naturally emerges.

If you consider all 4 of these things, 99.99 percent of women will not consider you a creep during or after talking to them.

Counter point 1:

  • "Ah but you see, if you were a 6'4 model faced chad with a chiseled body nothing you do can appear creepy to her, it'll just turn her on. See; flirting vs harassment. "

No you fucking psychopath. Attractive guys can still be perceived as creepy to women. In fact, a girl might think you are physically attractive but her perception of you as creepy kills any chance with her. The girls you're talking about want a guy who seems like he COULD be dangerous to someone else, not a threat to THEM. The amount of girls who will see a man they perceive as creepy and still go after him based purely off attraction are not as high as your chronically online black piller may have you believe.

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Counter point 2:

  • "Factors outside of my control limit my ability to approach women without being perceived as creepy. I am ugly, disfigured, short, i have bad skin, i have social anxiety/disorder. I cannot approach women. "

If you are genuinely suffering from a condition that makes it borderline impossible or much much harder to approach or talk to girls without being seen as creepy at first, I understand. However, you can't blame women for how their psychology evolved and how they perceive things as creepy. You can't expect pity or sympathy or feel entitled to their time. You can only make do with what you have, complaining isn't going to help. However, unless you are within the minority of men that is genuinely disabled in some physical sense, you are doing yourself a disservice by actively checking out of approaching.

If its confidence you lack or social anxiety you have, consider not cold approaching women. For me, doing so helped build my confidence, for you it may ruin it. Look into ways to refine your personality, build yourself up and a true inner sense of confidence first. Having social anxiety doesn't always make you come across as creepy, it just may make you appear as though you lack confidence.

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Counter point 3:

  • Women should just tell men when they're uncomfortable and reject us verbally every time. I'm not a mind reader.

Am i a believer that women could stand to be more direct? Yes. However the cold hard truth of the matter is that on average, women stand to lose a lot more from rejecting a man directly than when the sexes are reversed. Most of the time we pose a legitimate physical threat to them that creates a reasonable motivation for women to reject us as lightly and indirectly as possible.

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Counter point 4:

  • "You shouldn't cold approach women entirely, or not outside of social venues specifically for meeting people. Leave women alone.
  • 4B " I can't approach women because then I'll be labeled a harasser, an assaulter, a creep or weirdo."

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I disagree, we're social animals. I will interact with anyone in public if i deem them interesting enough. I have no qualms with approaching women outside of bars or clubs, venues I'm not too fond of to begin with outside of rare occasions. It could be at the gym, grocery store, beach, library, or mall.

Now, i feel bad for women that have to deal with creepy men, but the majority of the time women take issue with us approaching them in these "non social" venues are due to the fact that a lot of men are ignorant of when to end an interaction or ignore signs prior to an interaction that a woman does not want to be bothered such as the aforementioned closed off body language or if she is in the middle of doing something.

For the second part, because they are often said with similar lines of logic. Log off reddit, live in the real world. Most cases, especially when it comes to being a creep or weirdo you'll only be called those things if you are those things. I have approached almost a hundred women in a big city but in an area where everyone knows each other or frequent the same places, been rejected much of the time and i don't have a reputation as a creep and I still have my employment. You're either ignorant, creating a false scenario in your head to take responsibility away from yourself, or you genuinely do have non-positive intentions. And if god forbid one woman does think you creepy because of your own ignorance, it is not the end of the world. You can always improve your ability to read social cues and be polite.

See the signs, move accordingly, you won't leave a lasting "creep" impression in peoples minds.

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