You Weren't "Put In The Friendzone", You're Just A Shitty Friend

Sargeras13 · 2024-07-08T11:35:24+00:00

The problem here is that you can develop feelings for someone you see platonically, at any time, feelings aren't something you control, and every friendship carries that risk anyway

RicePresident_ · 2024-07-08T11:25:20+00:00

You dont owe anyone friendship

DreDre7301 · 2024-07-08T12:45:20+00:00

I think there is too much emphasis on sex being the sole other addition to a friendship. I don't think that the statement "the ONLY thing you aren't getting from a Friendship is Sex" is necessarily true. The main thing one wouldn't get is the potential to be that person's forever person. This is something that would hopefully continue even after the sex has stopped. I don't think we're in a good place if we look at one of our friends that we are interested in and think the number 1 best thing that you could give me or that I could give you that we haven't already given each other is sex.

LevelCaterpillar1830 · 2024-07-08T11:35:23+00:00

And if you abandon your friend because they don't want to have sex with you, you are a bad friend.

Some people might say "but I HAVE to abandon them, it hurts too much to NOT be able to have sex with them!" And... okay, I'm not dictating to you what your priorities should be. But to the Friend that YOU changed on, and decided you want to have sex with, you are a bad friend. Because you don't even LIKE having a friendship with them, and seem to think there's no other purpose to having a friendship with them if they "only" want to be friends.

I agree with most of your post, but I think this is where your argument cracks a bit.

Cutting off people who you are heavily emotionally invested in is fine if they don't return your investment proportionally, as long as you're doing it for the sake of your mental health.

Take a basic example: Guy and girl interact, neither of them likes the other romantically at the start. As things progress and the relationship develops, one of them starts catching sparks for the other, but said person doesn't. And as the connection grows and you like them more and more, the emotional load applied by these sparks gets bigger and bigger, making things feel heavier, because your emotional investments aren't being returned to the degree you'd like them to be, deep down.

You'd think to yourself: "Well, I don't want to sabotage this friendship and I don't want them to think I'm only in this for romance, so I'll keep quiet and maintain this dynamic".

What happens then is fairly normal: The loads get bigger and bigger as you end up liking them more and more, until you get so emotionally exhausted that you either approach them about it, or start cutting them out of your mental headspace, and interact less (which are things done for the sake of your mental health: disposing of the emotional load).

There is nothing wrong or immoral with this approach, no matter what any schizophrenics would say.

In this regard, I think this is one of the biggest curses of being an attractive person. People end up in this psychological rabbithole a lot more often with you, due to your attractiveness, so the fact that you have a great personality as well paradoxically ends up working against you. And it's all because of these colossal emotional loads you unintentionally apply onto other people.

This naturally makes genuine friendships a lot harder to maintain, especially with the opposite gender.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-07-08T11:41:09+00:00

Totally bogus take.

Being friendzoned is where the friendship consists of you putting in boyfriend effort to remain friends, not actual friendship effort. When you stop putting in boyfriend effort the friendship either fades, or if she thinks you are pursuing some one else she teases the possibility of more to keep you providing boyfriend level effort.

It is this exploitive nature of the friend zone that is problematic. The fact that you like them as more than friends is exploited to receive this effort.

If someone was a real friend they wouldn't make me plan our time together, pay for the time together and wouldn't actively prevent me from meeting a romantic partner.

MysterySolverDog · 2024-07-08T12:57:00+00:00

Bad take, you can't assume that the man is always surreptitiously planning some scheme when he wants to date one of his friends.

Also, ending the friendship doesn't make you a bad friend, that's a neutral action. You don't seem to have a firm grasp of morality - you can't call somebody a "bad" anything unless they make another person's situation worse, or they broke some kind of existing obligation (you can jump through a million hoops but the latter will never apply here). People think that there's some kind of moral obligation to be friendly, because that's what women are used to. There isn't, there's only a negative obligation to not make somebody else's situation worse.

DuncanIdaho88 · 2024-07-08T11:45:35+00:00

You don't owe anyone any friendships, and a woman can sometimes pretend she wants to be your friend just to get an egoboost from you by leading you on, or by venting her problems to you once per month.

Cutting a "friend" out if he or she leads you on isn't a bad thing. You do not need to justify it in any way whatsoever if you sever contact with a toxic person.

cassowaryy · 2024-07-08T13:56:00+00:00

The problem is that you’re assuming a scenario where this applies to long term friends that suddenly get abandoned because they won’t spread their legs... It’s quite absurd and no one would deny that it’s messed up. But in reality the term “friend zone” applies to a much larger range of scenarios, and it’s mostly for when it’s a new girl you recently started talking to and it’s become apparent she doesn’t want to give anything more than friendship, hence “friend-zoned”. From the very beginning the intentions were romantic, and some guys have a direct approach but many have a more subtle approach (and that tends to be better than overly blunt approach). “Friendzoned” term mostly applies to women who aren’t your friends putting you into the “friend only” category when you were pursuing something romantic from the start.

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-07-08T11:36:44+00:00

Your theory is based on the idea that people wanted to be just friends. Getting friend zoned is the idea of while you were trying to catch the attention of someone you were rebuffed but not rejected. Getting friend zoned has always meant the idea of attraction and attempting to build a romantic relationship getting stalled out not simply trying to be a friend and you damn well know it.

AreOut · 2024-07-08T11:45:22+00:00

also you should not force friendship with people who are obviously romantically into you, you don't owe them relationship and they don't owe you friendship, simple

Cunning_Linguists_ · 2024-07-08T12:44:59+00:00

Dear lord can you have a balanced take one time

wtknight · 2024-07-08T12:05:26+00:00

I think that the only real issue that you’re making in your argument is one of verb tense. The “friendzone” is the hypothetical idea of a category of opposite friends whom one has insufficient sexual attraction to. One should always be having sex with someone whom one is on friendly terms with, in my opinion.

Friendzone just means unrequited lust, and I don’t think that unrequited lust makes one a shitty person unless one starts acting in a less than friendly way because of having been put in that category. I can even understand wanting to hang out with that person less, since nobody wants to be in a situation where feelings are unrequited.

Creation_Soul · 2024-07-08T12:09:14+00:00

the problem with the blame here, is that it's not really anyone's fault. At least nobody intentionally wanted to hurt the other.

Humans are not 100% logical creatures. Yes, the relationship started as a true friendship, but we cannot really control our emotions in a perfect way, so one party developing romantic feelings is not really anyone's fault; it just happens.

So it's hard to stop them from appearing, but it's also hard to make them go away. And for a lot of people it becomes mental torture to be near someone you have romantic feeling towards and not act on those feelings. Sure, you can hope these feelings go away, but we know that in most cases that is not the case. So that leaves us with two realistic options: confess or walk away (and sometimes you combine them by confessing, being rejected and walking away). Staying is not really an option for most because proximity will continue the mental torture.

If you ask me, there is no "bad friend" here. Staying a friend and being subjected to mental torture is not something I would recommend to anyone.

Organic_Ad256 · 2024-07-08T12:26:08+00:00

Since you already get to be around them and share your life with them as a friend, the ONLY thing you aren't getting from a Friendship is Sex.

OP, you do understand there is more to romance besides sex, right? A lover is not just a friend you have sex with.

Inomaker · 2024-07-08T14:39:13+00:00

Your argument seems to rely on calling someone a bad friend for no longer agreeing to be a friend. How can someone be a bad friend when they aren't a friend? It's illogical. Is a girlfriend a bad girlfriend for no longer wanting to be in a relationship? Is an employee a bad employee for deciding to quit their job? The quality of someone's role within any kind of extra personal dynamic is based on their actions during that dynamic, not the ending of the dynamic.

When you're confessing to a friend, you're telling that person that you no longer desire to be their friend, your desires are higher. It's implicit. When they deny the role you seek, you're then left with the option to remain in a role you no longer desire to be in, or remove yourself from that role. There's nothing morally wrong with either choice.

evo1d0er · 2024-07-08T14:54:49+00:00

The friendzone is the simps fault just like the situationship is the sluts fault. (Sorry for harsh terms but I’m making a point). Now a girl that exploits a man with low self esteem and uses him as a piggy bank and emotional tampon is just as shady as an older or rich/famous man who dates a girl and uses his power imbalance to string her along and get sex without any commitment, even though in both cases the person with more power knows exactly what they are doing, it is still the adult who puts themselves in this compromising situation who is truly at fault.

That being said, anyone who claims the friendzone doesn’t exist is probably trying to quell their own conscious, because when we say friendzone we absolutely do not mean a normal, equal friendship, we are talking about a man providing a woman with all of the security of a boyfriend without getting any intimacy in return. “Friends” rarely buy their friends all of their meals when out together or pay for vacations or buy them clothes and gifts all the time. My wife has never bought her best friend a mani pedi, unless it’s her birthday and she certainly doesn’t pay for her gas or rent.

So while I 100% believe it’s the man’s fault for putting himself and staying in an unideal situation, the “friendzone” as I defined it above absolutely does exist.

Edit: and this is before I even get into the phenomenon of women who are not at all interested sexually in a dude deliberately sabotaging any sexual relationships he pursues other than her. But I guess he’s still the “shitty friend” when some girl who doesn’t want him also doesn’t want anyone else to have him because it would detract from the attention and resources he is giving her and he gets tired of it and cuts her off.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-08T15:11:53+00:00

“But I was told to be her friend first !”

DarayRaven · 2024-07-08T11:32:18+00:00

No one is "put" in a "friendzone" - you were already friends. You put yourself in the Friendzone when you befriended your friend. Presumably you liked being their friend, at some point, and they liked being your friend.

What guys mean by being put in the friend-zone is a unequal exchange of value

She is still getting all the boyfriend benefits such as his attention and emotional intimacy while he doesn't get non of the girlfriend benefits(sex)

It's really simple to grasp

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PMmeareasontolive · 2024-07-08T14:42:11+00:00

I've never been able to grasp the friendzone concept either. I have a quibble with your idea that you should remain friends with the person though. Sometimes it can happen that people are compatible as romantic partners but not as friends. Because in a relationship you prioritize stuff differently. The relationship and relationship building comes first (generally speaking). For example, I've dated some extreme extroverts and I'm an introvert. It's like, instead of doing what we both would normally do, we agree to get together and do a third thing. If and when we establish that we are "just friends" we still like each other but never hang out because we're into different stuff.

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-07-08T15:05:13+00:00

The only real male “friends” a woman keeps are men she’s physically attracted to on some level. There’s a reason why all those male “friends” she feels you not to worry about are always good looking.

“Friendzone” means you’re ugly and she didn’t want to hurt your feelings, so she just made some shit up about wanting to be just friends. She doesn’t. There’s a reason she ignores your texts or just responds with the enthusiasm of a corpse.

I know, every woman here is BFFs with a guy who looks like the Toxic Avenger and I’m full of shit, you don’t need to respond and tell me that.

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-07-08T15:37:04+00:00

Force? I think you are trying to redefined the term. Friendzone is not a goal. It’s something that’s actually inflicted on you by someone that is trying to keep a flock. Nice guys (and to a much lesser extent gals) put up with it with the idea that if I do what I’m told and just be nice maybe something will come of this. Maybe it can turn into something else that actually is friendly. But it has nothing to do with the actual term. In the same way, attempting to define the word girlfriend and boyfriend, by only using the definition of the word friend. “ Gee lady, you do that with all your friends? Wow “The Friendzone has nothing to do with wanting to be a friend. Attempting to redefined this is just as disingenuous as the term itself.

Brilliant_Island8498 · 2024-07-08T18:16:45+00:00

Why do u care, just get another girl

firsthandgeology · 2024-07-08T20:20:57+00:00

I still love her. I love her so much that I would want her being my girlfriend even if the relationship would have ended long before I would have had sex with her.

LALALALA. All I'm seeing here is
"
I don't know anything about you, but you're a terrible person.
I don't know anything about you, but you're a terrible person.
I don't know anything about you, but you're a terrible person.
I don't know anything about you, but you're a terrible person.
I don't know anything about you, but you're a terrible person.
I don't know anything about you, but you're a terrible person.
" - Gravel_Road

You're assuming the worst for no reason. What if the guy just doesn't want to see another man have a relationship with his crush? What if simply seeing her face causes intense emotions and tears in his eyes? What if simply seeing another girl that reminds you of her gives you the same reaction? The obvious answer is to simply forget. It was the last day of university. Why would you chase after someone who you will not see unless you specifically seek them out?

It's always the same with you people. Always telling others that they are horrible people based on almost no information. It's easy to simply accuse someone pre-emptively of some ulterior motive. It's even easier to claim that wanting sex, which is going to play a role in almost any romantic relationship, is THE ulterior motive.

She says no. You don't leave her alone, stay around, and always have feelings for her and hope you get a chance. => You're evil for seeing her as just a sex object.

She says no. You leave her alone and move on. => You're evil for seeing her as just a sex object.

Okay, but what If I am a good friend who bottles up his feelings? => You must enter the emotional meat grinder and suffer for no reason other than to look virtuous on an online forum.

The path to hell is being paved with the blatant disturbing hate on display here.

Oh btw, I recomend listening to this song. It's pretty nice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg32ODQ53cA

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-07-08T20:22:53+00:00

Then easy, men shouldn’t value companionship at all in women and should be as shallow as possible.

This kind of posts flies right in the face of all of those “well what did they even have in common” BS we hear so much of the time.

unhingedtherapist254 · 2024-07-08T20:55:34+00:00

Being friends with a girl who wouldn't fuck you even if you were the last person on earth is the equivalent of a woman sleeping with a man who'd never see her as anything other than a sex toy I'm sure you can understand why the bitterness ensues

T12J7M6 · 2024-07-08T22:39:29+00:00

Maybe instead of saying "shitty friend" one could say "incompatible friend". There are friends for everyone, but not all friendships are combatable. However though, if one for sure is seeking friendship and doesn't find it, they could be a shitty friend regarding the fact that they are offering something the other person is not valuing, and hence if they for sure want to be their friend they could develop themselves so that they now are offering this thing which the other person values. This however doesn't make this person a "good friend" - it just makes them combatable with this person, meaning that not all people want the same things in friendships, and hence I think "incompatible" is better word than "shitty."

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-07-09T00:32:34+00:00

You Weren't "Put In The Friendzone", You're Just A Shitty Friend

First part yes. Second part... not necessarily.

I encourage men to not fall into a victim mentality and instead recognize that they still have power and agency. So no attitudes like "She put me in the friend zone" or "I'm stuck in the friend zone". If it's part of your Nice Guy plan to win her over romantically then you put yourself there. If you developed feelings later over time then you just happened to end up there but it's completely your choice to stay there or not.

Since you already get to be around them and share your life with them as a friend, the ONLY thing you aren't getting from a Friendship is Sex.

I dunno man. I kind of doubt that you actually believe this. A LTR is much more than friends who have sex. Support in all areas of life (that exceeds that expected from normal friends), merging of life plans, and children are all things that are often included in normal romantic relationships that distinguish them from mere friends. Suggesting that a man could only want to be romantically involved with a woman for the crass reason of getting his rocks off is making terrible generalizations about men just to try to make this point.

And if you abandon your friend because they don't want to have sex with you, you are a bad friend.

If the guy was doing the Nice Guy plot of making friends with the goal of turning it into a romantic relationship then yeah, he led her on with the ostensible promise of friendship and then took it away.

But of course feelings also develop organically. Common advice on here is to date within your friend circle. Even if it's just an acquaintance for a time and not a close friend there is a friend or at least friendly period starting off a lot of relationships that should not be characterized as underhanded plotting on the man's part.

In other words, a man is not necessarily shitty person or a shitty friend for developing feelings and deciding it is too awkward or emotionally difficult for him to continue in a friend relationship the same as before.

Basically it seems like your response to men demonizing women and saying they're all victimizing men is to counter with the opposite - demonizing men and saying they are all victimizing women. I'd much rather say that there need not be a villain and a victim in every situation involving unrequited love. Sometimes things happen, they don't work out, and it's nobody's fault, even if there is disappointment or hurt feelings.

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-07-09T07:52:30+00:00

The difference is that for men friends are MUCH easier to gain than relationships which results in men seeking relationships with women they wouldn’t want to be friends with.

RubyDiscus · 2024-07-09T15:04:12+00:00

I don't think it's necessarily a case that they are a bad friend.

They could of started talking and it might of been with the purpose of dating but then they just decided not to date. Or one person decided they just wanted to be friends.

Doesn't mean the friendzoned person is a bad friend. Bizzare take

hearyoume14 · 2024-07-09T15:22:01+00:00

I’ve seen it used by men who are always the boy friend never the boyfriend. Same with women. Usually boundary issues and covert contracts are at work.

I have no issue with someone walking away due to their feelings. Hopefully they do it maturely. I’ve seen covert contracts fester and resentment build due to unrequited feelings.That’s just a toxic position to be in. It would be better to walk away. Ideally they’ll work through their feelings and we can resume some sort of friendship again. I don’t believe in unconditional love or relationships myself.

Unable_Evidence_4028 · 2024-07-09T16:51:40+00:00

I mean. What is the point of tolerating a woman if not for sex? Being a friend with a woman who is not opening her legs not helping open the legs of other women is a waste of time, energy and money.

ImInBreadMyself · 2024-07-09T19:21:10+00:00

When male friend hits on a female friend, they rarely actually stay friends.

Not all they're politely indifferent for a short while and then eventually drift apart.

Not many people stay friends when there's romantic history or romantic rejection. It's just too awkward and wierd.

Cheetahfan123 · 2024-07-09T20:44:03+00:00

What if you’re trying to get to know someone and end up having feelings for them. They may see you as a friends but you never explicitly said that or intended to be her friend

berichorbeburied · 2024-07-08T12:41:06+00:00

Well I can’t be friendzoned.

In the beginning we weren’t friends and she liked me only and didn’t care about me @ all.

Then she only saw me as a friend and didn’t want anything sexual at all and TRIED to friendzone me.

Now I TRY to friendzone myself or self sabotage but I can’t. ATP I’m unfriendzoneable.

So I don’t understand your point of your post.

Cause I can’t be friendzoned by my bestfriend. And that’s the only person I’ll ever love. And we are really really close friends. Like we really really love each other.

So maybe you’re talking about something that doesn’t apply to me or that I can’t understand.

FrameWorried8852 · 2024-07-08T15:03:34+00:00

Simp mentality. Women are much better for sexual relationships than mere friendships especially when compared to the friendship of dudes.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-07-08T11:30:25+00:00

The simple and obvious solution - men and women should not be friends

IIscoopsII · 2024-07-08T13:47:58+00:00

If “shitty friend” is code for “physically unattractive” then I agree.

alebruto · 2024-07-08T14:20:56+00:00

If you need to spin the situation against the man, turning it into "have sex with me or this is the end of our friendship," then you don't have anything real to condemn the guy against. This just means that you are incapable of having a legitimate, damning question about the guy who is in the Friendzone. It's quite simple, if you need to interpret someone in a vile way, it's because you don't see real evil in that person.

Title	You Weren't "Put In The Friendzone", You're Just A Shitty Friend
Author	Gravel_Roads
Upvotes	0
Comments	276
Date	July 8, 2024 11:23 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1dy6fpf/you_werent_put_in_the_friendzone_youre_just_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/you-werent-put-in-the-friendzone-youre-just-a.1523619 https://theredarchive.com/post/1523619

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