If the majority of children are raised by women, where do gender roles come from?

AngeCruelle · 2024-07-22T19:50:26+00:00

Young boys have a lot more energy which is not accounted for, instead they get scolded for having difficulty to concentrate and for acting out in class. This is nothing new. Boys are harder to control, without doubt, but that shouldnt justify them being punished for it.

I'm confused about where this claim is supposed to be going. So okay, teachers stop scolding boys who make airplanes in the back of the classroom instead of participating in the lesson, and don't punish them for acting out. How do you think he will behave under these circumstances, and how will his test scores improve as a result?

EulenWatcher · 2024-07-22T18:09:22+00:00

Gender roles are all around us, and even people who don't share them often still perpetuate and push them in some instance without realizing it. Now even if your parents are perfectly egalitarian, you still grow up and live under social influence. There are other relatives and older relatives tend to be far more conservative, there are your peers from more conservative families, there are teachers from older generations etc.

I don't think gender division in some fields is only the result of gender roles though, but a lot of other things we can point at like financial burden, mostly female/male colleagues treating the other gender differently, stereotypes, a lack of accommodation for workers of the other gender or biased view of them are the result of gender roles themselves.

uglysaladisugly · 2024-07-22T20:12:06+00:00

Just answering to the question in the title here.

It has been shown over and over by heritability studies that the familial environment has a very very small impact on most traits variance in individuals. The global extended environment has a much higher impact.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-07-22T18:13:47+00:00

I read a study a while back that was quite enlightening. Girls perform better at maths than boys, but rate themselves as worse at it. There's something bringing down their confidence but it's unlikely to be their teacher (who, as a maths teacher, is likely male anyway) or mum. And then when it comes to A levels they won't pick something they think they're bad at, because that wouldn't be what makes sense.

abaxeron · 2024-07-23T08:39:53+00:00

If the majority of children are raised by women, where do gender roles come from?

"Mmmmmmagic!" (shia_labeouf.gif)

Seriously, this is the most Occamian explanation I've encountered in the wild. "The patriarchy" is the original sin. It is in everyone just by the fact of birth. Which is a weird code word for "even when women do it, it's still men's fault". We will know when "salvation" from this sin comes, but we also know that it's very distant, and will be very distant long enough that "the patriarchy" may be considered all-powerful and omnipresent by definition for any forseeable future (which in itself is a code word for "it's okay to fleece men for reparations some more").

paraque159 · 2024-07-22T18:31:46+00:00

Patriarchy is their explanation for literally everything (there’s no winning): “those women were indoctrinated into perpetuating the patriarchal system.”

Savings_Builder_8449 · 2024-07-22T18:39:44+00:00

I know the answer to this one its "men"

all the worlds problems are caused solely by men

attendquoi · 2024-07-22T18:22:37+00:00

I don't know why you're assuming all women are feminists.

analt223 · 2024-07-22T18:23:36+00:00

Men want to be desired by women. Women don't care as much. Thats the genesis of all of humanity, especially gender roles.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-07-22T20:19:58+00:00

Men aren't responsible for patriarchy and women can perpetuate patriarchy.

Patriarchy is just a catch all term in which we describe a social system that heavily favours hard power to be masculine and male.

Patriarchy can also be detrimental to men. It's just that the ways it is detrimental to men is harder to quantify as it tends towards emotional issues. (Boys don't cry, it being socially expected for boys not to have the same emotions) Women are affected either financially or by an set of norms that's easier to see as unfair (not being allowed to own a bank account. Men have a magic penis that makes them the head of the family)

Gender roles are also everywhere.

You can have amazing non-gender conforming parents, meet other kids and media and learn almost immediately that girls wear skirts and boys don't.

We also as a society tend to conform. If a girl sees most girls play in the swings, she'll play in the swing instead of the mud by default.

It's hard to say how much we do is cultural and how much is innate. For example, there are lot less women in the trades. Part of that is that we associate the trades with physical strength, of which men on average have more of. Part of that can be that because most tradespeople are men, it's harder for a girl to even consider it a viable life path. Because there's less examples of it. Then there's the environment. If it's a male dominant environment where there's a lot of crass jokes that might make a woman uncomfortable, then theres more women who would be turned off, not by the work but by the people.

Heres an example. I enjoyed wood working in school. The activity anyway. I wasnt amazing. I wasnt bad. Middle of the road. I was the only girl. If a guy made a mistake the other Kidd made of him for making a mistake. If I made a mistake it was because I was a girl not because I personally made a mistake. Add to that some shitty girl jokes that I'm sure was funny to 13 year old boys.

I'm not amazing at it. I wasnt passionate about it. And I had to deal with this shit. And all the my friends were in home economics.

I switched and never looked back. Would I have become a tradie? Maybe not, but I was essentially diverted from it at age 13.

Thats men in education. Women in stem. Etc

Now maybe women aren't as interested in stem for some reason. Maybe. But maybe it's also how we raise kids that means they never get the chance?

TSquaredRecovers · 2024-07-22T20:23:22+00:00

One of the major reasons that girls and young women choose not to go into STEM fields is that misogyny continues to be a major problem. This is well-document by researchers.

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2024/01/16/women-stem-students-up-to-twice-as-likely-as-non-stem-students-to-have-experienced-sexism/#:~:text=We%20know%20from%20existing%20research,those%20studying%20non%2DSTEM%20fields

https://stemeducationjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40594-021-00313-z#ref-CR21

https://hbr.org/2015/03/the-5-biases-pushing-women-out-of-stem

Inomaker · 2024-07-22T19:00:35+00:00

I believe gender roles derive from society noticing a difference of some characteristics between genders and assigning that characteristic to the respective gender role, then perpetuating that gender role despite those characteristics not necessarily being valid anymore. In the past, most of a family's food and luxuries depended on characteristics that were good for hunting and farming. Newborns required breast milk in order to live. Naturally, the one that can produce breast milk will watch the baby while the one with a natural advantage for agility and strength did the hunting and hard labor. Over time, the people that breast feed their children became better at caring for their children by simply associating with them more in general while the people that provided food and luxuries for the family became better at that. When not caring for children it isn't expected to waste your energy on skills you're not good at because you don't have the experience with it so it's best to maintain the living areas and do simple household work. Now we have 2 very distinct gender roles based on biology.

In the modern day as it becomes easier and more convenient to do things that others with a biological advantage could do before, gender roles become unnecessary and highly inaccurate. More people that used to be stuck in the role of caring for children due to their biological advantage are able to instead work to provide food and luxuries for their family while the natural advantage of agility and strength become less necessary to provide for a family. Allowing the one previously stuck in the provider of food and luxuries to tend to the children and living spaces thanks to advances in technology and baby formula. Unfortunately society continuously reinforces outdated gender roles that don't reflect reality.

Warm_Enthusiasm_1712 · 2024-07-23T10:27:09+00:00

So, I have some anecdotal experience recently, that I think I would like to share. I went away for the week to our cabin, with my wife our 2 kids, a friend (recently divorced woman) and her two boys.

Some weird observation about this person. She has very strict ideas about male gender roles. Which she pushes on her sons. Like, boys don't cry or feel pain. Man up, etc. They need to carry all bags and shit at all times. Chivalry, etc. They need to be manly.

While also super hypocritically expects the men in her life to help with all her trad wife chores and exactly equal 50/50. Yet she only wants to date a high earning, boss man.

Well, me and my wife are probably the least caring about arbitrary gender roles in our day to day life. We both work middle class jobs and could not care to earn anymore than we do. I earn slightly more( but this has gone back and forth over the years).

An example is my wife carrying some grocery bags home. She said that was a mans job, why should my wife have to do that. While also kept saying she was jealous that my wife is still so fit in her 40s. To which we both looked at her and said, "maybe carry some shit for a change"? We both are avid gym goers too and watch what we eat. It's not pot luck to look like this in our 40s.

While we were there, she kept insisting on just how lucky I was to have my wife. Because she had a fit body, did all the work, and I just sat there. She couldn't understand why my wife could be bothered to be playful, give me PDA and kiss and cuddle, even have sex with me.

The reality was that I was helping out with everything we were doing, we pretty much cooked, cleaned and looked after the kids together. We tried to do most of the work and let her chill a bit more (she spent a lot of time on tinder). My wife even stepped in and said, "what are you talking about"? Yet she kept on insisting that I hardly did anything. It got weird for us. My wife is very happy that we simply do things together( when together) or whoever is there, does it. We don't micro manage, who did more.

I then snapped, "if you care so much about what a man's job is, what is a woman's job"? She simply rolled her eyes and avoided answering the question.

Yet my wife is affectionate, because she wants it, not because of what I do. It's not a transaction. We also look after our appearance and that certainly helps.

She talked about how she was in a dead bedroom, because her ex fella was only doing his man duties, yet not sharing enough of the housework. No PDA, no nothing for him. He does not sound like a great guy either, but that is the kind of man she wants, yet will then bitch and moan about how he acts.

She perpetuates the patriarchy, because she is teaching her sons, do be the same. Women like this are toxic as shit and then men are being blamed.

This woman cannot use a screw driver or change a light bulb, to save her life. A man being "manly" is non negotiable to her. Yet, she came across as anything but feminine, that week. Just entitled.

Oh, just another bit of info. She grew up with just her mother.

wtknight · 2024-07-22T18:28:38+00:00

Boys watch men and other boys. It could even be men on television shows, in movies and in music that they model themselves off of.

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DoinIt989 · 2024-07-23T02:23:41+00:00

Women do study and work in STEM though. They are just more likely to go into biology related fields vs CS or "hard" engineering (hard as in physical stuff, not that it's harder).

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-07-23T02:38:49+00:00

The majority of children are only raised by women because society still believes women are better at child care when studies literally show kids do poorly when raised by just a mom... and the kids benefit the same as if they would in a married family the same way with a single dad

Innanaspeaks · 2024-07-23T08:17:59+00:00

The educational differences I think are cultural. My experience may be different from most people- I went to an all girls school that had an entrance exam. It was heavily STEM focused. We girls heavily valued academic achievement. Our grades for homework were read out best to worst at the start of every lesson and it was a competition to get into the top 3. We were constantly reminded to focus on our futures.

In comparison, the boys school (same academic level) had no such values. I was often aghast at the poor quality of work that the boys were happy to turn in. They just didn't care. Whereas I'd spend hours a night completing homework, they would dash it off and go out with their friends.

As expected, the boys exam results and university attendance was always much poorer than the girls. We turned out lawyers, doctors etc. Most of the guys I knew are salesmen or admin assistants.

They had a whole school system designed for them but they just mostly fucked about and did the minimum.

PainzAKiller · 2024-07-23T12:47:45+00:00

Nature.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2024-07-23T16:57:44+00:00

Gender roles come from society. Both men and women reinforce each other's and their own gender roles. Men reinforce women's gender roles by generally wanting thin, good looking, young, and homemakers. Women reinforce men's gender roles by generally wanting tall, good looking, older and rich men. Women however reinforce men's gender roles more than men do women.

Women instill gender roles on their sons but not their daughters. Little boys are told not to hit girls, be nice to girls, let girls go first, provide for girls etc. Whereas little girls are told they don't need a boy/man, they can be independent, it's okay to hit boys, boys should carter to them, etc.

apresonly · 2024-07-25T17:41:33+00:00

Women inflict it violently on their sons (and daughters)

that's what feminism says. 🤦‍♀️

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-07-22T19:11:04+00:00

We are all responsible for upholding the patriarchy. By settling for tradition rather than questioning the status-quo we are all perpetuating a flawed system that disempowers girls and levies unattainable expectations on boys.

It stems from a legal precedent of power where the father or eldest male was head of the family and descent is traced through the male line, and it evolved from there to become an abused system of power to intentionally deny people opportunities based on their gender.

Organic_Ad256 · 2024-07-22T18:25:39+00:00

First of all, I have no idea how the body of your post relates to its title. Did you make a mistake here?

As for the body of your post, it is just good old discrimination. In past, it was primarily done against women, now it's done against men (at least in the West). Maybe in the future, hypothetical pendulum will swing back and it will be done against women again. Who knows?

SaBahRub · 2024-07-22T18:29:04+00:00

Gender roles come from biology. Children need care and feeding, women want children, men want sex

alwaysright12 · 2024-07-22T19:42:05+00:00

Most women aren't feminists.

They're certainly not feminists that want to abolish gender roles.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-07-22T18:35:59+00:00

There’s nothing more cringe than an upper middle-class white women who works in a cushy bullshit job shrieking about “patriarchy” and claiming to be “oppressed” - what they mean is that, within their class, they are at a slight disadvantage compared to their male counterparts, and when they pontificate about “equality”, what they really mean is that they want to be at the top of the privilege hierarchy.

Anyone who has entered the workplace in the past two decades can attest to how feminised it has become; traditional gender stereotypes are rooted in a traditional class structure that was upended by neoliberalism - men are supposed to be stoic, hardworking breadwinners who left the house at dawn and didn’t return until well after dusk; the traditional jobs that supported those roles were offshored decades ago, but a lot of women - including those who profess to be feminists - still want the perks that went with them, expecting the man to be the provider, where his salary becomes “their money” and, while he’s working all hours, she does a part time job that supports her hobbies, interests, leisure, with the child rearing and domestic chores offloaded to hired help.

The only struggle that matters is the class struggle - the rest is performative bullshit.

LevelCaterpillar1830 · 2024-07-22T18:18:59+00:00

It's very simple, really.

We are getting to that stage of feminism where men are subtly being coerced into fulfilling their traditional end of the contract, while being asked not to expect much in return from the other side.

It's the "men should men should men should but women shouldn't necessarily" stage of things.

Not much longer until men get fully beaten into the ground. Well, men on the lower end of the food chain, mostly.

LordShadows · 2024-07-23T08:05:41+00:00

First, gender roles and patriarchy are enforced by women. Not all women are feministe, and a lot just goes with whatever culture their into, no matter if it's misogynistic or patriarchal.

Second, for a long time, teaching was a man exclusive job, so their influence was their.

Third, children are affected by media. Today, it is the Internet, but there was a time when it was a children's book. Old childrens book aren't known for their progressive views.

But for the part where their is less pressure on girls than boy today and that girls are forgiven more easily for their mistakes, I 100% agree with you. Somehow, a lot of people fighting for gender role equality seems to have a blind spot when it comes to equality of responsibility and when it comes to either treating girls worse or guys better.

It isn't the case of all but a lot.

Title	If the majority of children are raised by women, where do gender roles come from?
Author	Involved_Currently
Upvotes	24
Comments	217
Date	July 22, 2024 6:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1e9ktab/if_the_majority_of_children_are_raised_by_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-the-majority-of-children-are-raised-by-women.1525008 https://theredarchive.com/post/1525008

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