Why do men become so self-destructive without access to women?

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-06-01T15:01:27+00:00

No leading questions

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-06-01T12:58:39+00:00

I wonder what percentage of men who commit suicide are single

BigSean_125 · 2021-06-01T12:57:47+00:00

Not having someone to romantically love or be desired by really takes a toll on you mentally.

Barely-moral · 2021-06-01T13:17:24+00:00

Men want meaning.

For reasons that are beyond the scope of this discussion the vast majority of the male population will not get any meaning nor fulfillment from hobbies nor jobs nor careers.

Most men can only aspire to work one job/two jobs just to get by. Most men will not get to pick a job/career that means anything to them if they even had the tools and time to even know wich one would do that for them if any.

Most men would spend so much of their time/energy in their meaningless jobs to the point that they will not have enough free time/energy to spend in anything meaningful.

For those men (again, the vast majority) there was one way to get a meaningful life even with everything I mentioned against them. They could get a partner, have sex, form a family and get to keep that family until they die.

Suddenly the job and the struggle are not meaningless. The job and the struggle means that the woman they love and their kids get to have a better life.

Suddenly they are no longer worthless and replaceable cogs in a machine that will replace them with ease but husbands and fathers, both positions that couldn't be replaced.

Well today we have all the same obstacles that make finding meaning hard as fuck and to add to all of that shit it is harder to get sex, a partner and children because changes in society that are too big for the scope of this discussion.

So men are existing without meaning. Of course their lives will suck. Of course they will consider drugs, alcohol, lazyness, porn, suicide etc.

Lack of meaning is something that fucks a man up.

4_spinning_triangles · 2021-06-01T13:20:38+00:00

If I'm not going to have a family, I'm going live to have the most fun possible, not reach old age.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-06-01T13:00:34+00:00

Love is a important factor to life. Not being loved can make someone feel bad. Since a lot women are not attracted to men in general makes a lot men pretty much not loved. (Excluding family)

hundunso · 2021-06-01T13:08:27+00:00

Men in this society are generally not much loved & appreciated. Having no relationship & no intimacy just makes things worse. I think every human being wants to feel loved & appreciated

throwawaybpdnpd · 2021-06-01T14:13:18+00:00

I think most men don’t have passions they can put all their time and focus energy into, so they think when they’ll find the right woman they’ll magically end up happy

I got no time to meet women outside of running my businesses. All the women I meet are related to the stuff I do, which makes this whole thing a lot more interesting in my eyes

Platinirism · 2021-06-01T13:11:39+00:00

Humans are social creatures, they thrive from social contact, being loved is healthy for humans. Being unloved isn’t.

When a human goes their entire life without being loved or validated, it’s a huge mental toll, hence why being “lonely” is such a bad thing.

It’s not just men, women also suffer from loneliness. Just check the /r/foreveralone subreddit for proof of that.

Trying to make this a “Man only” problem is ignorant. Anybody can suffer from loneliness.

Ihateregistering6 · 2021-06-01T13:59:38+00:00

There's a lot of reasons.

-A large portion of a man's worth is judged by his ability to attract women. Men who can easily find women to sleep with them are seen as successful and the envy of others; men who cannot find women to sleep with them are seen as losers and incels.

-Men arguably have less support structures than women, both from a personal and societal standpoint. Men are taught to bury their feelings and just suck it up, while women are 'permitted' (for lack of a better term) to confide in their friends what their feelings are. Likewise, I'd argue society has massively less sympathy for dateless men than dateless women. If a woman can't get a date, it's because men are trash, or they're too shallow, or she's too independent and smart, or because she doesn't match "the unrealistic media standard of beauty', etc. If a man can't get a date? Well he's just a loser.

-Men bear the brunt of rejection. Which one do you think is worse: you go to a bar (as a woman), and no guy hits on you, or you go to a bar (as a guy), and hit on 5 women, and they all tell you 'no'? Getting told "you're not good enough' over and over again takes a toll on your psyche.

darkmoon09 · 2021-06-01T13:23:45+00:00

In a simplified nutshell yeah, basically. I don't gey why people are still having a hard time coming to grips with that fact. The truth isn't pretty but it is what it is. People think its a joke when we say sex/dating is almost like a physiological need for men, but thats whay it really feels like to these dudes. The testosterone and primal urge to fuck compells to be this way. I'm not saying people are incapable of altering or modifying their behaviour for the sake of social order and what not, but that's the core "blueprint" for the majority of men.

Say what you wil about the extreme batshit crazy ones, but at the same time I dont think just dismissing the situation right off the bat is not the best approach either. Believe it or not most of these dudes aren't the monsters you see in the media, most of them are just desperately lonely and depressed but they won't harm anyone. They're more likely to hurt themselves before others.

holeinthebox · 2021-06-01T13:41:29+00:00

I think you have the causal relationship backwards to an extent. What woman wants to be with a guy with no job, and no hobbies other than video games and porn? And for someone with mental health issues like depression, it’s difficult to summon the energy to just get out of bed, let alone try to find a partner.

ScrithWire · 2021-06-01T14:20:09+00:00

Id be curious to know the same stats for single women.

Id guess that the same is true for all people, though perhaps women may tend to have more familial support, which could translate to lower rates of those bad things for women.

If thats the case, i would say a likely cause (in answer to your question) is that men tend to rush out of living with their parents, and dont accept love and affection from friends and family as readily as women do, leading single men to feel, on average, more lonely than single women do.

But all of the preceding was speculation, because i havent seen any studies or numbers on these things.

Josieluvi · 2021-06-01T14:25:18+00:00

If the roles were reversed on a women then they would have this same issue and completely understand. As a woman I can say women are very attention seeking as a whole.

Barneysparky · 2021-06-01T14:33:06+00:00

Single men who are self-destructive are not relationship material. I think you are putting the cart before the horse.

It's like asking why obese women are more likely to be single and answering that they are obese because they are single.

Having a sex partner does not cure dysfunction.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-06-01T14:45:37+00:00

The same reason women become self-destructive without validation. It's the same thing.

No validation from others leads people down the dark road of lowered self-esteem. At that point, how it manifests will really depend on whether they express their energy outwardly or inwardly.

Outwardly results in destruction of things or other people. This is your "breaks things when mad" or school shooter - type of person.

Inwardly results in the destruction of the self. This is your "drinks, does drugs or engages in other forms of self-harm to cope" - type of person.

So, everyone needs at least a little validation to be healthy. People/Men who don't get any will develop issues eventually.

Dirty_Purity · 2021-06-01T13:12:41+00:00

Do men REALLY need to have access to women and dating to have a more fulfilling life?

It is our instinct and no matter how reasonable we are it is quite difficult to suppress it.

are groups like MGTOW just a coping mechanism?

Pretty much though as far as I know not all MGTOW completely avoid women, they only deny commitment and long-term relationships. I would call it lesser of two evils - for some men (including me) it is easier to cease and desist then get access to women.

_lemazaki · 2021-06-01T13:14:52+00:00

Because biology?
We are animals dude! Animals fuck, eat, sleep and fight.

Psychological_Wear_7 · 2021-06-01T12:57:22+00:00

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Women don't select for these depressed men so they're single, it's not her magical pussy that makes him not depressed

SmurfESmurferson · 2021-06-01T13:24:38+00:00

As a general rule - and tons of exceptions exist, so spare me the personal “I’m not like that!” - men externalize anger, women internalize it

It’s why men have historically snapped and become serial killers/mass shooters/got into bar fights. Why women have historically been more likely to self harm and develop eating disorders

It’s really interesting that male EDs are on the rise - makes me wonder what is happening internally with men

cherbonylfish · 2021-06-01T13:58:22+00:00

You’re all single because you say shit like “access” btw

Bekiala · 2021-06-01T13:21:19+00:00

Is it possible that these men don't have access to women as their habits make them unable to be a partner in a relationship? I'm wondering if the being single makes them self-destructive or being self-destructive makes them ineligible for being in a relationship.

Johnnycage456 · 2021-06-01T14:05:48+00:00

Its not just access to sex. Certain men have dramatically less intimacy abd closeness with other humans (men and women) on general.

Your average single woman often at least had some casual sex, orbiters, socially accepted closeness and contact with other women, etc etc.

Alot of women never really experience true loneliness the way alot of men do.

Sultmaker_9000 · 2021-06-01T13:20:12+00:00

More like the other way around. Those types of men have that kind of persona and are less desirable. Surely common sense.

sorathecrow_ · 2021-06-01T13:48:44+00:00

There's a lot more going on to cause the depression, suicide etc than "access to women." Right now society is pampering women while treating them like they're a victim class while men's problems get minimized and ignored.

Gravel_Roads · 2021-06-01T13:26:09+00:00

I don't think it has anything to do with women specifically and everything to do with how men are expected to live. While women face very different social problems related to society shining a glaring spotlight on them and giving them no freedom to do as they please, men are, essentially, expected to be "fine" and given no direction instead of too much direction.

The dirty side of male privilege, is that it only really benefits men who are healthy and able to utilize it. Men are expected to be strong, they're expected to be capable, they're expected to be stoic, they're expected to live alone and not need "people", but they aren't really given any extra tools or support in living up to this expectation. So when a man is depressed, or lonely, or touch-starved, the only option offered to him is "be seen as weak, or die".

Men are not encouraged to seek help, they are not rewarded or supported for doing so, so if he wants help it has to be something he does privately and keep to himself. Which is hard, has a terrible toll, and results in unhealthy behaviors because they are literaly never taught alternatives.

This doesn't mean that some men can't still push through and get help, and it does seem like (at least in the US) there is more conversations about it than there used to be. But it's sill a work in progress.

Ludens0 · 2021-06-01T13:30:56+00:00

The gender breach of empathy. Men don't get much of that.

wtknight · 2021-06-01T13:37:55+00:00

More than just sexual need, I think that the men’s desire to be attractive to women is really about self-worth. Women need validation, too, but they get it so easily from men who just want sex from them that they’re in a completely different situation than men. In fact, it could be argued that much of women’s attempt at validation is to actually get validation from other women, whose judgment they trust more because there is not an underlying sexual motive behind it.

Most men do not get validation compliments from other women regularly like women get from men and often times from other women. Even if they did, I don’t think that men would be happy with just compliments due to the nature of male sexual thirst, although receiving just compliments for men is better than receiving no validation at all.

I know that my life improved dramatically in college once I finally got a girlfriend and finally had sex. It made me realize that at least a few women could be sexually attracted to me. After that, I really didn’t need validation so much. But I’m guessing other men need that constant feedback that they are attractive enough, and if they do not have that feedback, or especially if they have never had it, then it can be psychologically problematic for them.

Jujuj07 · 2021-06-01T13:56:23+00:00

Because what's the point then? If you don't have access to women then all that's waiting for you is a lifelong of adult responsibilities without any kind of adult benefits that men find important (like sex, family, children).

Confidence for men is also closely tied to success with women. If you don't have confidence you will suck at life and then you will be depressed.

I believe that women are self-destructive the same way without men. It's just very difficult for a woman to get into that kind of mindset, where she would be totally rejected by all men. Worst case scenario men would still find her at least sexually attractive. Even though that's not what women usually want, it's still something they can grasp on.

Ludens0 · 2021-06-01T13:27:30+00:00

Maybe it is the orther way around... They are like that, and that's the reason they don't get sex.

MGTOW is a group of people with the same problem.

ArtNo6372 · 2021-06-01T13:24:33+00:00

My my it's almost as if we desire affection from someone of the fairer sex. As to why we slump more into bad habits and depression, well see it this way. The longer we go without said female affection the more stuff we use to distract ourselves from the emptyness . These bad habits make us less attractive to women so it's a negative feedback loop. Note before the mgtow creep up and proclaim how they "need no woman" I'm simply talking about guys like me . Not all men

SgllsTaklnDux · 2021-06-01T13:38:11+00:00

Maybe a combination of marketing and purposeful socialization. Men are taught to need/want it on too of any natural inclinations

StiophanOC · 2021-06-01T14:04:01+00:00

Are you really asking why a human becomes less when their needs aren't met?

Crafty-Particular998 · 2021-06-01T13:10:12+00:00

Because as much as society denies it and wants to push an individualistic agenda, people need love. Even women can become depressed (but less so because some women find themselves happier because they’re taught by society to be the responsible ones and end up taking care of men, but this doesn’t mean they can’t feel sad for not being in a relationship).

Humans need love. Oxytocin, the love hormone, has an anti-inflammatory effect on your body and boosts your immune response. People, not just men, have an innate desire to bond.

Murphysmongoose · 2021-06-01T13:58:35+00:00

Do men REALLY need to have access to women and dating to have a more fulfilling life?

Yes, most of us do. Or did, not so sure about the younger generations. More and more seem to be doing fine with just video games and each other.

I admit I need a woman in my life for my own mental/emotional well being. I went well over a year without dating, or any affection from a woman I'm not related to, sexual type affection, and it turned into the darkest point of my life.

Gerealtor · 2021-06-01T13:59:30+00:00

I mean, if you really shave away everything else, the point of life in a species is to further your genepool, preferably with the fittest/most partner(s) possible. It's innate. So the vast majority of people, no matter what they do to convince themselves otherwise, will feel incomplete being unable to have sexual and romantic relationships in their life. I guess the male drive for this is more intense because they're the pursuers and can impregnate lots of women at any time, whereas women are the ones who have to be selective about what they let into their womb. If men don't have any success pursuing women and sex, the drive is still there, constantly nagging at them, and that'll drive you mad, I imagine. Plus, everyone likes to feel needed. No wife, no kids, no one to depend on you or care if you're there or not... could be quite depressing.

Women feel shit too about singledom and rejection, obviously, but we do tend to be more content "standing back", so to speak, and going for longer periods without sex or sexual success. Plus, after kids, that bond kind of fills the void a man would for a lot of us.

ass-thetics · 2021-06-01T13:26:47+00:00

It's in our DNA to have partners and reproduce. The brain sees it as a need, similarly to hunger or thirst.

abaxeron · 2021-06-01T13:46:45+00:00

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.78.1.78

Considering that the highEST rates of male suicide are observed among widowers and divorcees, not never married, the initial premise you're operating from is flawed.

passepar2t · 2021-06-01T12:58:59+00:00

That's just how god made us, I'm afraid.

shadowcandee · 2021-06-01T13:30:38+00:00

People take it personally, as if something is so wrong with them. One negative thought turns into two, turns into three, so on till avalanche mode. Seeing “happy” couples or stuff online or through media or porn doesn’t help the feeling of rejection.. we as humans naturally want to feel connected, unalone and wanted. Not having that really ruins people’s perspectives about themselves cause they were never taught to love themselves as they are, without turning to someone. Initially this can all be fucked up from birth, the moment we are born we want acknowledgement from our dads or nurturing from our mother, the less we have that, the more we seek in others, the less others give that to us, the more destructive we become. I’ve learnt a lot about this with my life coach, I think it definitely starts from unhealed child wounds. I also think men don’t have a great way of dealing with their emotions as society has told them to be strong and keep quiet- you’re a pussy/ weak if you show emotion. Women usually bring out this vulnerable side in men and allow them that space to show the real sides of them, without this output, this freedom to show someone their emotions, men suffer internally. IMO. Just curious.. what’s with the down votes on this? Someone care to share what they think on what I’ve said?

atomic_jazz · 2021-06-01T13:36:04+00:00

What I really need at the end of the day is deep emotional connection. It’s the only way to reliably get affection.

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ohheyhi99 · 2021-06-01T14:03:37+00:00

Two considerations:

1) Men are probably more likely to suffer a penalty in the relationship market if they have complications. On average, being low income, unemployed, passive, autistic, fat, or dysfunctional probably hurts a man’s chances at partnering more than a woman’s. On top of that, women probably seek out relationships more in the younger years where people are more confused about themselves.

2) This question asks about men’s desire for women, but it’s really about desire for partnership. How do men themselves and men’s experience in the straight dating market affect these issues?

Inevitable_Gain_7456 · 2021-06-01T14:18:19+00:00

Blame Disney. This sub unveiled that evil which was plugged into our psyches.

Gackt · 2021-06-01T14:26:33+00:00

Hormones, evolution

imElnumerouno · 2021-06-01T14:29:22+00:00

pssst... cause of self destruction? its not access to women... that also just one of the destructive symptoms of low self worth....

We see plenty of men that get laid that are also destroying themselves.

CockAFuckityFuck · 2021-06-01T14:29:49+00:00

One can only be a feminist in a first world country.

Timmy721123 · 2021-06-01T14:31:26+00:00

Men need to be needed. Take away a man's meaning, purpose in life and they fill their time with what ever is available.

Some are good things. Some are bad things.

Thats why the feminists don't need no man is especially destructive.

Brae_Andrews · 2021-06-01T14:32:31+00:00

No to all questions…

NTRollin · 2021-06-01T14:32:48+00:00

statistics show single men are more likely to be depressed, commit suicide, abuse drugs and alcohol, blah blah blah

How much more is more
Are women any different

Brae_Andrews · 2021-06-01T14:33:45+00:00

We are the ones that can do without the opposite sex. This post is just virgin shaming and is dumb…

blarglefart · 2021-06-01T14:37:06+00:00

Its is violent and painful to "become" something, as society dictates men do. Experiencing this pain with no meaning, no reward, leads to a kind of self eating impotent rage that is an epidemic.

Haunting-Ad-8603 · 2021-06-01T14:41:24+00:00

Why do men become so self-destructive without access to women?

and less likely to have sex as demonstrated by 30% being celibate for a year

Kinda hard to have sex without access to women

wordsandmagic · 2021-06-01T14:41:44+00:00

Because a lot of men strive for only status and sex. Thats where they get fulfillment.

If they took warmth from their crafts or arts or family or friends they would be mentally healthier

miketrance · 2021-06-01T15:01:08+00:00

This is an example of correlation not equaling causation, or perhaps even an opposite correlation than what is suggested. What I mean is that the assertion is that men become dysfunctional because they are single, when they could be single because they already were dysfunctional.

This is probably more likely the correlation and this explanation explains those nasty ass radical feminists too. They are single man haters because they are dysfunctional, not lack of dick driving them to be crazy feminists.

Apocalypstik · 2021-06-01T15:13:54+00:00

Women are more likely to have a wider social circle and lean on their close friends to provide emotional support—whereas males often have more limited social supports. Isolation (and perceived isolation) is the #1 factor in suicide. Some of these links are older but are just as applicable today and we continue to teach this in mental health professions.

Women report depression more often but have greater social supports, which are a protective factor. Males complete suicide more often and report fewer social supports. Also, married males tend to live longer and report higher instances of happiness. They have someone they feel like they can rely on.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/77936137.pdf

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.2.250

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22835874/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230572601_Gender_differences_in_the_relation_between_depression_and_social_support_in_later_life

NMFlamez · 2021-06-01T15:29:08+00:00

Sex frustration can fuck your shit up.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-06-01T15:40:08+00:00

are groups like MGTOW just a coping mechanism?

Yes, but there needs to be more coping mechanisms like that. Socially, men are only valued for what they do/ provide. Women are valued for being mothers/nurturers. Even if they are not mothers, they fit the archetypal role.

In the context of a relationship is about the only way for men to feel valued. But there are exceptions, he could have a job that is rewarding or take care of extended family or friends, even a pet, or a garden. But the focus in the west is on having a partner. It's in part instinctual perhaps, but advertising drives it home; "you are nothing without _____________"

The question is, is it bred in them like a shepherd dog instinctively knows how to herd sheep but isn't interested in much else? Or can men be taught to value themselves for themselves, the way women are, and not just for what they produce?

carly_rae_bopsen · 2021-06-01T13:41:56+00:00

A lot of masculinity is defined by a man's success with women. That's why one of the most common insults for men are mocking thier lack of success, "that's why you don't get laid", "no women will ever want to touch you", and general virgin shaming. So when men don't get this success, it affects thier self-esteem negatively and they feel less of a man. Rom coms don't help these expectations and feelings either.

TheDevilPutD · 2021-06-01T13:55:28+00:00

Retaining baby makers makes you crazy bro.

Title	Why do men become so self-destructive without access to women?
Author	AFOQTNewbie
Upvotes	55
Comments	258
Date	June 1, 2021 12:54 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nptbdf/why_do_men_become_so_selfdestructive_without/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-men-become-so-self-destructive-without.773680 https://theredarchive.com/post/773680

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