Should financial abortion be a thing ?

copeharderhun · 2022-08-14T12:39:14+00:00

Of course

Simply for equality. For women it is possible to get out of the responsibility for a child post-pregnancy. This is a right they have and anyone who opposes it is seen as "forcing her to be a mother" and "denying her sexual freedom". Well the same should apply to men should it not? If women are allowed to get out of childcare post pregnancy why shouldn't men be? Indeed to say only one gender should be held accountable for the consequences of sex and not the other is a huge fuck you in the face of equality. Could you imagine any law targeting any other group like this?
Responsibility - as we all know only women have the right to actually say whether an abortion takes place. Well if that's their sole right then the responsibility should also be theirs. You often hear the "reeee two to tango reeee" bullshit argument but that argument only works in the case that both parties are equally culpable. But that isn't the case - one party has much more of a say than the other. In that case "two to tango" cannot apply. Indeed we can even try it the other way - two to tango? Well the women is just as culpable as the man so - just like the man - should not be given the option of getting out of it post-pregnancy. Two to tango after all. To screech "two to tango" whilst at the same time holding only one party accountable is dumb.

What's hilarious about this situation is EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT that they use against it is the exact same as a pro-life argument. The very same pro-life arguments which - when use against women - they decry as disgusting and evil and misogynistic.

Boy am I glad I got a vasectomy.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-08-14T11:46:01+00:00

Yes, of course.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2022-08-14T12:35:35+00:00

Yes.

This topic exploded in a few other subs recently, and despite surface-level insistence that it was about the kid's well-being, when push came to shove, the arguments against male reproductive rights just boiled down to punishing men for the inability to get pregnant, even in cases where they were raped or baby-trapped. Tons of victim-blaming, too.

QuestlessSeeker · 2022-08-14T12:29:13+00:00

In states that allow abortion. Allow men to financially abort…in places that DONT allow abortion…men SHOULDN’T be allowed to abort.

Just like OP said, the issue is less about pro life or pro choice, because pro choice for women is still in effect in my states even after RvW overturned. Plenty of states where a woman can abort yet still force a man to stay for 18 if SHE chooses…That, like much other bs in our society today, is wrong, and loops back to my idea for a solution.

xcheshirecatxx · 2022-08-14T12:17:15+00:00

Of course. And not having this, as a woman, is insulting. It basically says I can't take care of my own decisions

Redram78 · 2022-08-14T13:35:24+00:00

Yes 100% and watch the number of unwanted pregnancies go down, take away her meal ticket and she will not want kids.

_GoldLeader_ · 2022-08-14T14:04:22+00:00

Yes. If she can decide to kill the mf I should be able to at least abandon it

EricAllonde · 2022-08-14T14:01:45+00:00

Yes, absolutely.

That is 100% necessary in order to achieve the "equal rights" that feminists lie about wanting.

Here's an article I wrote exploring the issue from a right-based perspective:

https://www.quora.com/How-is-it-fair-to-force-a-man-to-pay-child-support-if-he-doesnt-want-to-be-a-father/answer/Eric-Allonde

Algoresball · 2022-08-14T13:51:34+00:00

Yes equality should be a thing

heeroena · 2022-08-14T13:16:08+00:00

Dave Chappelle said it best

WeEatBabies · 2022-08-14T15:24:06+00:00

Yes, women have access to the safe heavens/surrender laws and men should too!

But feminists want their child support!

RedditSoys · 2022-08-14T15:43:16+00:00

It won't make a difference to the mother anyway as in most cases they can find a new boyfriend if they end up splitting up. My brother had a baby then he split up with girlfriend shortly after, he had to fight even to see the son even though he was paying child support payments. She found a new boyfriend and wanted to cut him out of the picture.

The funny thing about the financial abortion situation is that the man will be called irresponsible yet women can get abortions due to their low finances and they would be called sensible and praised.

Rad_Knight · 2022-08-14T15:36:57+00:00

If women have the option to opt out of parenthood, men should too.

stardewxisla · 2022-08-14T14:42:13+00:00

yes, I believe if you resign all parental rights, you should be able to cut ties and not pay child support and there should be no reversing that.

DeadSkullMonkey · 2022-08-14T17:31:35+00:00

Yes.

EvidencePlz · 2022-08-14T17:34:30+00:00

Definitely yes

offtable · 2022-08-14T17:43:42+00:00

Yes, ofcourse.

weirdornxtlvl · 2022-08-14T11:51:39+00:00

Child = contract.

Void (abortion) = if both parents agree.

If not, we value life and whichever parent wants the baby will have it, excluding the other parent from any obligations. This will give men and women their deserved reproductive rights.

Lightning77Plus · 2022-08-14T18:16:32+00:00

Yes. If we're going to be pro-choice, then everyone should be given a choice, not just one half of the population.

Reproductive rights for all.

Tankbot85 · 2022-08-14T19:32:57+00:00

Yes.

I have said this for years. If a woman can walk away at any time from the responsibility, a man should be allowed to as well up to a certain time frame.

NonnyNu · 2022-08-14T19:28:54+00:00

Woman here. I will say this. I agree that men should have the right to financially abort for the same time period as the woman does. I think that that time period should end at the moment of conception. It’s not fair that women get all those excuses to abort but when it comes to men, it’s always, “He knew what would potentially happen if he had sex. He should’ve kept his dick in his pants if he didn’t want kids!” Well, the woman knew, too. So why does she get a pass? Is she not as intelligent as the man?

random23233 · 2022-08-14T18:51:51+00:00

yeah, but only in whichever states ( or in this case countries) allow abortions now. In the ones that don't , everyone should be on the hook for the kid. Those are the laws those people are choosing though, so they should be held accountable to their own beliefs, for better or worse.

narfywoogles · 2022-08-14T19:56:20+00:00

Women can drop a baby off at a firehouse no questions asked. Men who were raped as a child have been forced to pay child support to their pedophile rapist.

And they call this a patriarchy? Nah, it’s clearly a matriarchy. That’s why they say it’s a patriarchy so much. Can’t fix the problem if you don’t understand it.

peanutbutterjams · 2022-08-14T22:38:26+00:00

Men don't have equal rights as long as they cannot abrogate responsibility for a fetus they helped create.

Men don't have equal rights as long as women can choose to consign men to 18 years of debt and legal responsibility for the child.

Anybody who's against men being to have a "financial abortion" / annulment of parenthood is anti-choice.

The pro-choice stance on reproductive rights MUST include men's right to annul parenthood because any stance predicated on the freedom of choice must also stand for men's right to choose whether or not to be a parent, just as they stand for a women's choice whether or not to be a parent.

mandark1171 · 2022-08-15T01:49:10+00:00

If abortion is legal then it should be for both parties

If abortion is illegal then it shouldn't be for either party

Equality

ZekalMacabre · 2022-08-14T14:56:10+00:00

Yes, absolutely. We need to have rights in this area too.

NullIsUndefined · 2022-08-14T16:24:39+00:00

Forced extraction of money from father's shouldn't be legal. Fatherhood should be voluntary

PhilNEvo · 2022-08-14T20:11:44+00:00

Imo it needs less time than regular abortion, because if the man decides to make a "financial abortion" decision on the last day that she can abort, she gets no real time to process and make a decision of whether or not she wants to have a baby in that financial situation ~

autocthonous · 2022-08-14T21:10:19+00:00

Short answer - Yes, but I think that 'financial abortion' is not the best description for this process. I'd prefer something along the lines of 'pre-term abandoment', as I think it's more equivalent to when a woman would abandon a baby to be raised by someone else, than it is like an abortion.

Aggravating_Cycle_21 · 2022-08-14T22:12:50+00:00

Yes.

Adeus_Ayrton · 2022-08-14T22:15:12+00:00

You wont be able to abort all rights after the child is born a few years down the lie unless you discover the child is not yours ( DNA test ) and no longer wish to provide for the child.

🤔

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-08-14T22:52:40+00:00

In my state Abortions are illegal , and poor individuals and even middle class working paycheck to paycheck would find it difficult to travel away for any extended amount of time plus recovery . So no finacial abortion is non applicable in my state. Infact the government is pushing for traditional marriage as a result of these pregnancies. Trying to encourage people to make wise choices about relationships and procreating. All Red Republican/ Conservative values.

Halobruhv · 2022-08-14T23:55:34+00:00

I agree

MaxTheCatigator · 2022-08-15T00:10:56+00:00

Of course. That's what equal rights actually mean.

drakenpage222 · 2022-08-15T01:26:28+00:00

DNA Tests need to be a thing for life.

SpookieDookie483 · 2022-08-15T01:55:05+00:00

If they can commit murder and get away with it a dad should be able to walk away financially free and get away with it if he wants too. That is pro choice. So you are not exactly pro choice then? Just pro murder ... gotcha.

sgtm7 · 2022-08-15T02:26:15+00:00

Not only can they avoid all parental responsibilities by having the baby killed, if they have the baby, as long as they put no father on the birth certificate, they can just give it up for adoption.

MRDA · 2022-08-15T02:54:55+00:00

Yes. Next question.

nevermock · 2022-08-15T04:10:31+00:00

Women can abort anything they want, except student loans.

nevermock · 2022-08-15T04:12:59+00:00

Women already have the right to financial abortion. Women are granted all sorts of ways to escape financial hardships and responsibilities. These men don't get. Much of it is laundered through the government.

Feisty_Roll981 · 2022-08-15T06:43:04+00:00

An argument and something I see women use a lot is how men should be responsible because they are the ones that nutted inside the woman in the first place... This one really rattles me and makes my head spin because the man irresponsibly nutted they say.. The man is the one being irresponsible.

Makes my blood boil because when we don't count rape (obviously. And the smallest percentage reason ppl get abortions.) A woman has the ultimate say as to what and who can insert into her body. So when these women allow a man to enter her unprotected, imo, this makes it ultimately her responsibility way more so than the mans. All of it actually since relying on men to pull put is a fools game and I believe we all know why.
It is my the one argument that annoys me the most as they take absolutely NO RESPONSIBILITY for giving a man to enter her without protection and when she knows full well that unprotected sex is playing roulette and most often times will result in pregnancy. Not to mention they can could have refused to have sex in the first place.

So when a woman gives a man permission to enter her she is thereby consenting to a potential child having temporary use to her body. In different circumstances i would say both need to hold accountability as both deciding to proceed in intercourse are both consenting to take care of the possible life that could be the result.

But when men have to sit back and has absolutely no say as to wether or not they agree with the procedure. She can murder a mans child and no matter how much the man wants to prevent the murder of his child (as he sees it) he is absolutely helpless to protect that which men are, YES, also biologically made to want to have as well as protect his own children. Yet a man cannot walk away saying "I wanted the abortion but she chose to keep it and since i am not ready to care a child at this time in my life, I will forfeit all fatherly obligations.

Women have the ULTIMATE right anyone can have on this earth.

And that is they can literally commit murder as they see fit.

If a man induced an abortion with pills or some kind of physical act he wouldn't just be charged with assault or whatever. He would also be convicted of manslaughter of the unborn child. At the most, since the woman decided to keep it.. It should be considered property damage as the fetus is not considered a living being its reduced to the women's property imo.
I could go on and on and on on this subject alone.

anonoman925 · 2022-08-14T16:07:55+00:00

In States that force birth, the State should pay the child support.

glodde · 2022-08-14T16:32:51+00:00

It's only fair that men have options

BillyDeanMorgan · 2022-08-14T17:19:36+00:00

We need more men to start being vocal about these topics. We are 50% of the population, let’s not forget that

regrettabletreaty1 · 2022-08-14T22:38:12+00:00

Absolutely, if the government can’t force a woman to become a mother, it shouldn’t force a man to become a father

OctaviaPinfold · 2022-08-14T22:42:34+00:00

Yep. If you have no intentions of becoming a father, you should not be forced to, for multiple reasons, not even financially. And the "but you had sex" argument is also not valid because women participate knowing the risks and they are no more entitled to sex than men.

gerrta_hard · 2022-08-14T23:23:27+00:00

yes.

end of argument.

iceandfireman · 2022-08-14T15:34:18+00:00

It makes too much sense, therefore it won’t go anywhere, sadly enough.

patxiku93 · 2022-08-14T16:18:34+00:00

Yes, it's fair.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2022-08-14T22:15:44+00:00

Yes it should be a thing. For the simple fact it takes 2 to make a baby sure. But a girl carrys the baby itsbher body sure. But if she carrys the risk why should she not be the most careful about it. And a girl has not have to take any care about what the man things or wants. If she choose to keep it or kill it. Its up to her sure sure thats fine.

But if a guy has no say over it. Why if she choose to keep it a guy stil on the hook for it.

Like dave says. If you can kill a motherfucker. I can at least abandon it.

And there is a kind of thing going on with girls tryingbto trap stars and famous people. And stealing condoms. To trying to get money out of them. So there is much malicious intent behind it. To just hook guys Financial.

And it needs to stop. Guys get to blame for every mistake both genders make. And there should be more own burden put on girls for there mistakes.

actions have consequences. Girls are gatekeepers to sexual access. As it should be cause the carry more risk. But if you have un prepared and unsafe sex. It should be on the girl. Guys dont get pregnant. If you fuck with a guy that not serious you. And you duck with out a condoom. Or have any of the 13+ ways you could stop it from happening.

And the always say guys dont like the condoms. So? Dont have sex with them gatekeepers are girls. Guys dont carry the same risks as girls. Why girls have to be more responsible.

But the get bailed out all the time. And thats the problem. Single moms explode cause there is a big financial gain for girls. To do this. And the government also gets paid to fuck over so called "dead beat dads" that paying blue for a kid the often dont get to see or have any bound with.

End of the line who are the most effect by this. The men and the child.

Child support is not for the child at all. Els would be looked what a child needs are. Not just taken x amount based of potential earnings. Child often needs much much less for just food for the child or for some clothing. But no its often manny times more then it is need. So its to line the pockets and lifestyle off the girl. And to line the pockets of the government.

And to not have the dad in the childs life it wil much much less likely to be successful. More likely to have abuseive problems. Like drugs like alcohol. And go in to crime. So can you really say its about what good for the child at all. Or fair at all For any party.

So its in my opion a old system thats outdated in a time when girls did not work did not vote did need the extra protection. But those times are long gone. Girls have manny times at times more rights over guys but carry almost none of the consequences that come with the same freedom.

And thats big part why girls and guys are further apart then ever before. (Sorry for my bad english im trying)

HotaruZoku · 2022-08-14T23:36:08+00:00

Well obviously.

They want MUH EQUALITY right?

Their body, their choice.

Our bodies (earning said child support), OUR choice.

Imagine how instantly women's behaviors would change for the better in a world where the only way they could ensure financial support is, get this....BE WORTH IT.

foreverclassichunter · 2022-08-14T21:16:45+00:00

Well I don't know about abortion but if a women has the right to give up the child and loose responsibility, her rights to the child and give it for adoption then so should the man have the right to loose his rights and responsibilities of the child if he had a reason to, women should also have a reason to do so, if the woman wants the child she can't force the man to have responsibilities he can't handle due to economics or is unable to offer anything to the child, if the woman wants the child and the man doesn't then she can go and rase the child on her own or with another man, she is strong and independent after all, same if the man wants the child then he can rase it on his own or with another woman.

thefatherlord3 · 2022-08-15T05:23:37+00:00

Maybe you just shouldn't have sex then. Roe v. Wade is gone. Abortion is not protected. Women are told to "shut their legs" if they don't want a child. So men can keep it in their pants if they don't want to face the potential consequences.

Right?

/sarcasm

Edit : typo

DirtyPartyMan · 2022-08-14T15:55:06+00:00

Of course it should IF the Legal System were fair. But that’s not what a Legal System is about. A Legal System is built on Laws & Loop Holes. Whoever has the most money can buy the lawyer who’s best at research.

A JUSTICE System is what you seek.

My rules that I’ve formulated so far piggyback those already in place for women.

That a man is given a grace period just as women are given a grace period before abortion is beyond the point of possibility. But a man has until that moment to be notified by a woman that she is pregnant. That that period Cannot be less than two weeks. The notification must be in the form of a notarized letter it must be served to him for the clock to start. Upon receiving his paperwork all he needs to do is sign and return to absolve him of any legal responsibility for the child should she decide to keep it. Also included in this paperwork is a checkbox for yes. That he would like to be the father. All figured it out

Strawberry-milk-uwu · 2022-08-14T16:16:38+00:00

I feel like the woman can choose whether to have it or not. Here's what I think should happen :- Man doesn't want kid but woman does so he fully pays for the abortion. But if the woman still wants the kid, The man will not pay child support.

Handle-me-timber · 2022-08-14T16:39:02+00:00

Lol yes of course it should. Or abortion should be removed as an elective procedure. As of now abortion is a back up plan for the failure of female manipulation. Some 98% elective according to the limited access to data. Women “on the pill” just happen to get pregnant to try to keep a man around, and if he doesn’t want stay they can just get the abortion.

As long as poking holes in condoms isn’t considered SA, as long as victims of rape can still be taken for shield support, as long as the man has no reproductive rights, we should be able to financially sever ties with the baby and the mother.

BillyDeanMorgan · 2022-08-14T17:17:44+00:00

Absolutely

blackdahlialady · 2022-08-14T18:35:55+00:00

Imissyourgirlfriend2 · 2022-08-14T18:51:35+00:00

My solution:

1-States that vote to make abortion completely legal with unilateral decision making capabilities being handed to the woman as to whether or not that child will be born shall also completely remove any forced child support from the father. If she decides to keep it, she's on the hook for all of it.

2-States that vote to make abortion legal but it must come at the agreement of both mother and father shall force child support from the father if the child is kept.

3-States that vote to make elective abortion illegal shall force child support from the father.

Scandi_Navy · 2022-08-14T19:31:39+00:00

Yes. It would put an end to women trying to get pregnant by guys with money. Drake having to put hot sauce in his condoms. Cases like Brittany Renner and Superhead. NBA advising their players to get rid of their condoms.

But I bet women are going to fight you on this, even if it means they in return also get abortion laws. The good thing about this question is that it shows their true colours.

ForcibleJoy · 2022-08-14T20:02:02+00:00

Financial abortion should be a thing, but only if regular abortion is legal for women.

A man shouldn't be forced to pay for a child he never wanted, like a slave for 18 years, just because an accident happened during consensual sex and the woman decided to keep it. If she wants to keep a child conceived with a man who doesn't want to be a father... that's her own decision and responsibility, not the man's.

Some people will argue child support is about the best interest of the children, but that's a lie. If it were really about the best interest of the kids, then we would be forcing billionaires to support the children of complete strangers. But we don't do that, because there's an argument to be made that a billionaire can't be held responsible for other people's decision to conceive a child. Bill Gates didn't conceive John and Jane Doe's kid, nor did he force them to conceive it, therefore it isn't his responsibility to support that kid financially.

Which means, personal responsibility does indeed take priority over the best interest of the child.

Forcing men to pay for kids they never wanted is a perversion of the law where men are held responsible for decisions they haven't made. It should be struck down as it's basically forcing people into a contract they never agreed to, but it's allowed to continue to happen because men don't have much power against the law and society doesn't care about them.

Also, having sex isn't "assuming the risk of having a child" as some people often argue. With today's availability of contraceptive methods (not to mention abortion as a last recourse), having sex shouldn't be considered as knowingly taking a risk of pregnancy. By that logic, if a kid jumps in front of your car and dies, you should be held guilty of murder because you knew this was a possible risk when you decided to drive even though it was very unlikely to happen and the kid/his parents could have prevented it.

ShoheiOhtanii · 2022-08-14T21:01:28+00:00

This ^{^}

As a woman, The men should be allowed to have a choice too.

BowtiepastaMasta · 2022-08-14T21:11:30+00:00

generaldoodle · 2022-08-14T21:24:06+00:00

I forgot to mention but this would only be a option for the same time period a women has abortion available.

Well in my country women can drop baby right after birth and have zero responsibility for him, and father still have to pay child support if women will name him as such.

ChadWolf98 · 2022-08-14T23:19:25+00:00

there is 1 issue.

THe child. What is used unfairly by the court to abuse all other rights "think of the children" is a real concern. Like they do need support.

Now, if it would be a taxpayer expense this would be still be paid by mostly men. Given that they are the net taxpayers. And honestly I dont want to pay extra taxes for someone else's children.

So I dunno the ideal solution. I'd also want to let single fathers get CS from women. The system needs a major overhaul tho.

rodneybmore · 2022-08-14T23:38:21+00:00

Yes it should but politicians pander to women and corporations that benefit from child support extortion

WildWitch0306 · 2022-08-14T23:56:32+00:00

I don’t think so because the point of child support is making sure the child has its needs met. And whether or not one wanted to become a parent, it’s no longer about them. It’s about their child. I do see the points you make. And they are valid. It’s just that I’m this scenario there is an innocent child who is yours that might suffer either financial or emotional hardships. Studies have shown what negative effects come from lack of fathers. So I guess I don’t understand why anyone would abandon their offspring. But then again, I don’t understand why a woman ( if she has not been raped) would get an abortion. But I can understand why men would think it’s unfair and want that option. It’s just that, in my mind, the child comes first. And I also think that this should be a conversation with one’s sexual partners. What will happen should they get pregnant? Nothing wrong with having this talk or being choosy about your sexual partners. This is a really tricky question that I feel like would take a lot of consideration.

KellySummerlin · 2022-08-15T07:44:06+00:00

In the past, both people had their fate decided when penis entered vagina and sperm encountered egg Today some portion of the population gets a reprieve on this timeline. I am hinting at condoms and morning after pills as well as abortions within the legally allowable time frame. The basic facts remain: sex is a procreative act, it was never designed as recreational past time. Some people getting a reprieve when a baby is aborted whereas other not getting a reprieve and paying child support may seem unfair It’s an unfair arbitrary process if not everyone is getting a reprieve. Some people pay for the consequences of their actions whereas other don’t. It’s like you resent someone else’s good luck because your luck wasn’t the same. Every man who drops his trousers must know that a percentage of condoms may break. It’s a game of chance, Russian roulette. If a pregnancy is confirmed and the two parties cannot agree one person will get their way and the other won’t. One person will emerge happy and the other will be sad. Many societies have given that right of decision to women because it’s her body. It seems logical that she has the greatest investment and the most at stake. For men the timeline of decision making is earlier in the process. I personally think universal basic income would be the best solution to the problem. Society could do away with not only child support but food stamps homeless shelters no unemployment benefits no need for SSI and other welfare type programs. Society could also do away with the government employees that staff these agencies. This is something right to lifers and right to choice people could agree on because mothers could be given a support option to allow her to have her baby. Plenty of social problems could be solved, for example there would be no welfare fraud and no waiting for disability hearings. Men and women would pay collectively through their taxes and every one could live free of fear.

Texan2116 · 2022-08-14T20:01:30+00:00

If you dont want kids, dont fuck. Not hard to understand. This applies to either gender. Otherwise, you take your chances. Be prepared..or, dont fuck.

Calm-Pause3527 · 2022-08-14T14:44:33+00:00

I'm not against this as long as it occurs within a reasonable timeline. I believe men should be able to terminate paternal rights entirely- but it should be done in a shorter period of time than legal abortion allows AND (obviously this is US based opinion from me) in states that allow it.

If your state doesn't allow abortion- you can't terminate paternal rights. If your state has an 8 week abortion law- you have to terminate within 4.

But also wow this thread is a shit show.

Automatic_Staff4137 · 2022-08-15T08:26:10+00:00

No. It’s a fucinkg life. No need for more arguments.

anglosassin · 2022-08-14T14:42:12+00:00

Call me old fashioned, but I've only had sex with someone with whom I've been willing to have a child.

capt-on-enterprise · 2022-08-14T17:50:50+00:00

So you don’t want to have children. And you just don’t want the responsibility of children ie paying for them or caring for them. I get it. So is your question how do you accomplish that?

Direct_Geologist_536 · 2022-08-14T11:22:37+00:00

I am not in favor of abortion for both genders. Fatherlessness is already such a big issue, and I don't think financial abortion would solve any of it. The real solution behind all of that is good sex education and be aware of what sex outside a relationship can cause. Or sex in an unstable relationship

schux99 · 2022-08-14T19:18:27+00:00

Personally I believe if you agree to have sex you are agreeing to the possibility of a pregnancy occurring and both people involved need to be held accountable for any child born from that.

GS455 · 2022-08-14T21:02:34+00:00

It's called: a condom. If you are worried about them breaking, make sure you use a fresh one, and pay the money for plan b if it does break. OR don't have sex out of marriage. Which is a superior option.

Fictionarious · 2022-08-14T21:15:42+00:00

No. While this would appear to be a step forward for men's rights, it would be two steps backwards for children, who deserve two loving parents/guardians for redundancy's sake. Removing this systemic redundancy for the sake of "men's rights" normalizes state-funded single motherhood, which itself is a giant step backward for men's rights everywhere (even single ones, who will predominantly be funding it via taxation in this scenario). If you promote a policy that normalizes male disenfranchisement from the parenthood role and leaves bitter and resentful mothers to raise kids on their own, you are not acting in promotion of men's rights, whether you think you are or not.

It simply isn't good enough. We must instead mandate prenatal and/or immediate postnatal paternity testing and partially restore the old Roman right of Patria Potestas, insofar as it allowed biological fathers to kill unwanted children. This should probably be restricted to occurring unambiguously before the development of the child's identified self, which emerges sometime in the second year of life after birth. This policy rectifies the extant disparities in men's reproductive rights relative to women's:

entitles expectant fathers to existential certainty of their biological relation to their claimed children, as women have naturally.
subsequently grants expectant fathers an equivalent post-coital opportunity to terminate their offspring in real terms, as women have via the option to abort.

Learn more and join the fight for maximal and symmetric rights at r/ProRightsAdvocacy.

seanma99 · 2022-08-14T23:03:58+00:00

The topic of pregnancy will never be fair because men do not contribute equally to a pregnancy. All a man does is evacuate inside a woman then the woman has to endure 9 to 10 months of pain and suffering and then get split open during the birth. Some women have catastrophic repercussions from pregnancy including death. America has one of the worse maternal mortality rates in the developed world and yall are complaining about women having the right to opt out of a possible death sentence cuz you don't get a kid. A male will never have to deal with a pregnancy therefore the choice of said pregnancy should be in the females hands. Don't leave your seed in the control of another how bout that.

bubbybyrd · 2022-08-14T18:54:23+00:00

You can always ask for full custody, but you can't expect a women to carry a baby if she doesn't want to.

poppingcandy5000 · 2022-08-14T22:36:07+00:00

This is an interesting discussion. Some points that are easy to overlook are that women don’t have total control over contraception. There is a fail rate for all contraceptives. There are many complex factors at play. Men have control too when it comes to condoms.

What happens in circumstances of coercive control and denying contraception to women? This really happens to women in abusive relationships (probably at a similar rate to men). What then, the women is pregnant and then the guy just absolves himself of responsibility?

What happens if a guy opts out and then changes his mind?

Also, what happens to kids? Child support isn’t for women. It’s for the child to give them a reasonable life.

These are complex issues and more so with the protection of the right to privacy removed (in the US).

CourseDangerous2583 · 2022-08-15T01:08:57+00:00

we do not have the privilege to decide when we will become fathers

I mean yes we do?

teaonmarz · 2022-08-15T01:34:55+00:00

what do you mean by “men don’t have the privilege to decide when we will be a father”. because if i remember correctly, it takes two people to create a child. TWO. please explain again how a man doesn’t have the privilege to decide. because he does.

F_SR · 2022-08-15T02:23:50+00:00

The money is the right of the child, not the mother's. Point blank. There is no getting out of this. No one in the law field would ever entertain this. It is the right of the child. It cant be waved by you.

Also, there are so many unbelievable economical outcomes that would come out of this, that this would be reversed in a MINUTE.

Nerfixion · 2022-08-14T14:22:13+00:00

No.

You did have a choice. Ya out your dick in and shit happened. Unless that was the product of rape, you're just a guy with buyers remorse why should the child suffer because your fucked up?

She said she's on the pill? Should of bagged it.

When you choose to get your dick wet, you played the gamble.

But women get to choose? Different thing all together. Nutting doesn't cause lasting effects to a body. I don't agree with abortion outside of special reasons but I think it should be allowed. You're a man, you had control of your actions deal with them.

Arnoux · 2022-08-14T20:00:40+00:00

You say fathers have no say. They have say when they put their penis and ejaculate.

Who will finance the raising of the kid? It is hard to raise a kid in a family. I am sure it would be much harder as solo parent. Someone needs to help, which will be the government in this case.

So should tax money spent on children just because their father “aborted” them financially? Why spend tax money when the father is the father of the kid. A living person who has needs.

If you don’t want the slightest chance of having a kid, then don’t do sex.

-Soggy-Potato- · 2022-08-14T12:39:54+00:00

I agree it’s unfair on men

Issue is it’s infinitely more unfair on the child if the mother chooses not to abort

Unless the government makes a miraculous decision to fund single parent households on behalf of absent fathers which simply isn’t a realistic standpoint

There isn’t a good outcome, but child support simply put is the best realistic available option. Once the child is born it simply takes priority over the parents , and that’s not a disputable point

holalesamigos · 2022-08-14T12:29:22+00:00

Some of you should really do some research. I see a similar post almost every week.

There is a way for men to terminate all parental rights. No child support, no rights for custody or visitation but this can only be done if the other parent, the mom also consents to it because she will be the one raising the child by herself and needs to figure out whether or not she can raise the child solely on her income. The mom consent part is also perfectly reasonable.

If you don't wanna see your child, just pay child support and never ask for custody or visitation.

I am all for mens rights but I genuinly don't understand what you want in these type of situations. In the end it's still your child, so you can just pay and not care for the child.

Do you know how many men still don't pay child support even when a court orders them? More than 70% of single mothers don't get any child support. So what you're suggesting is actually happening.

maryhartman000 · 2022-08-14T15:45:31+00:00

Well, you should at least pay 50% for the abortion, that’s only fair. You can’t expect her to pay for the full amount.

Arialene89 · 2022-08-14T21:17:54+00:00

Men have reproductive rights. Your right is choosing whether or not to ejaculate inside of your partner. If you cum inside of a woman, you are choosing to be a father, and now the woman has to agree whether she will carry your baby, just like you choose to put a baby in her. Neither the man or woman can make a baby by themselves. It sounds like a bunch of bitter men upset because they have to step up to the plate and be a responsible father.

Mongrel06 · 2022-08-14T21:16:25+00:00

I recently argued on the matter of abortion rights vs child support laws with someone recently. And interestingly enough, when you look at the actual statistics, a majority of child support is often never paid with only about 43.5% of recipients reporting to have received the full amount owed.

So if I'm going to play devil's advocate, I'd say feminists have a point here. Even if men are required by law to pay child support, it's not really a lawful responsibility that we are held very strongly to.

Outis129 · 2022-08-15T02:29:37+00:00

Absolutely not. As I seem to be outnumbered in this comment section I’ll quickly preface this by saying men are greatly disadvantaged when it comes to parental rights and I fully support efforts to rebalance this, but I don’t think this is the issue here.

An awful lot of these comments are stating that if women are allowed to abort, then it’s only fair men should be able to opt out to. If you’re going to support financial abortion, fine, but this is a bad reason to; two wrongs don’t make a right.

If you engage in consensual sex you willingly open yourself up to the risk of pregnancy and parenthood. When that child is born that is the product of your choices and your actions. They are your responsibility and should not suffer the consequences of a single-parent upbringing without a father figure because you feel like it.

This is not about the father’s rights, this is not about the mother’s rights, this is about the child’s right to the best upbringing it can have.

Cfwydirk · 2022-08-14T11:14:54+00:00

Good luck in court.

Who will pay you or the taxpayer?

sanem48 · 2022-08-14T14:37:07+00:00

To be fair, men have every option to deny fatherhood, that is by not getting a woman pregnant in the first place. Also it's quite common for women to get pregnant against their will, more so in the past. So in the end, it might actually even things out.

That said after conception yes, men are definitely at a major disadvantage in modern society, although I feel that is in a large part due to them getting stuck with a larger part of the bill, probably because that way governments get to leech more money out of them. If we want to be fair, men and women should get equal time, authority and cost for the children. Especially with women on average having a higher education than men in the West, they should have no issue providing their share.

As for financial abortion, it's something that was suggested in Sweden at some point, but shot down for obvious reasons. If it were to be put into action, then to be practical the woman should seek approval from the man before it's too late to do an actual abortion.

Another issue is what happens if the father dies, does the child warrant an inheritance? What if he was never aware of the child, say if the mother got pregnant from a rich old man, had a child without telling him, waited for him to die and then claimed the inheritance through a DNA test.

Personally my intention is to sidestep this discussion by only dating women from countries that don't enforce fatherhood on unmarried men. While I would still accept the children and care for them, I would not do so officially, taking away the legal power of their mother to force me to do so, giving me a stronger negotiating position.

Mind you this discussion is probably about to both get moot and way more complicated as medical technology is about to make a giant leap forward with nanotechnology and what not. Because it'll become super easy to both control fertility (men and women will be able to turn on and off their reproduction process at will, for example nanotech that'll kill every sperm before it can reaches the egg) and to increase fertility to insane levels (men getting pregnant from a skin cell of another man or woman or a digital DNA sample from a database, cloning).

shadowguyver · 2022-08-14T17:55:45+00:00

If equality is suppose to be the end game that would mean in areas where exact equality can't be met, like in this case something biological then a compromise that comes as close to 100% equal should be permitted.

shadowwalker989 · 2022-08-14T18:03:39+00:00

I had the same view point most of my life then I got to thinking that the man should not pay only if protection was used and failed n she decides she wants to keep it (problem with that is the truth is hard to prove unless a lie test is done but thats unrealistic) so I'm forced to by default to stick with the same view point as urself which is still pointless because men's voices go unheard when it comes to children from abortion to how they get raised women have the final say BUT HEY ONLY WOMEN SUFFER INJUSTICE RIGHT

2HourCoffeeBreak · 2022-08-14T19:52:56+00:00

As a guy, I went through this at 19. It was hell. Financially set me back decades.

It takes two and you both better be prepared for the possible outcome, but yeah, if a woman can absolve herself of all financial responsibility, then so should a man be able to.

I went the opposite route though. I spent thousands and thousands fighting to have a life with a child I didn’t even know I had until she was over a year old. But women have all the power and they can control every aspect of your life like a puppet. My attorney even told me that a father gets only what the mother wants him to have. Nothing more. It’s not right.

mrmensplights · 2022-08-14T20:27:13+00:00

Consider almost all government social programs. Money is collected from all citizens into a central pool (taxes) and the government pays individuals based on social need from that pool.

Now consider 'social programs' where women and men are involved: Alimony and child support. The government points a gun at your head and orders you to hand over the money. If you can't pay you end up in financial ruin and can even end up in jail. Seems more like a civil suit than a social program, no? It's as if the man was sued and the wife won ongoing payments forever as ordered by a judge.

The truth is that historically, this method was a sexist punitive measure used as a means to punish men for not 'doing their part' in marriage. Today people talk about it from the perspective of the child's welfare and how it's a social program, but it isn't really thought of or implemented like one. If child support is a social welfare program focused on the well being of children then treat it like a social program. Cut single parents a check.

Despite modern interpretations, the existing system is immoral, outdated, and sexist.

neighborhood-karen · 2022-08-14T20:36:56+00:00

It also makes you wonder about the time limit bc what if they hide their pregnancy until well past the limit. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have that limit in place but it makes you wonder about these kinda of loopholes to force fathers to have the kid

Uncle_Touchy1987 · 2022-08-14T20:52:22+00:00

That’s a Texas sized 10-4.

biccat · 2022-08-14T21:00:15+00:00

I think Dobbs makes it more likely that financial abortion may be in the cards.

You can't challenge a constitutional right as sex-based discrimination. You can challenge state statutes or state constitutions as sex-based discrimination.

ComprehensiveGanache · 2022-08-15T01:12:59+00:00

Yes. This. I also believe there should be more opportunities for people to literally get an adoption license. Once you have one go on the “open market and parents who don’t want will have the opportunity to give up for adoption without public works getting in and screwing everything up.

Ridethelightning1987 · 2022-08-15T02:46:15+00:00

I absolutely do. Baby trapping is a thing. Rape to. And tampering with condoms/lying about birth control.

Fearless-Sherbet-223 · 2022-08-15T04:36:23+00:00

Personally I think anyone should be able to cut all ties if they don't want to be a parent. That kid is going to be better off without parents that don't want them. I wouldn't even limit it to unborn babies or new DNA information, just full stop if you don't want your kid you can hand them over but just know you won't get them back easily or at all if you change your mind.

pureguiltthrowaway · 2022-08-15T06:13:21+00:00

I consider any man who walks out on their child a piece of garbage.

YesYesYesVeryGood · 2022-08-15T06:13:31+00:00

I got a vasectomy and am happy about it. I know I don't want children, and i am not going to risk getting someone pregnant.

If you want kids, i am sorry to say it, but you are putting yourself in that harsh position. You are free to do what you like, but in today's age, parenthood is pitted unnecessarily against the father. I get the case of deadbeat dads, but even good men and good fathers are punished.

stompin77 · 2022-08-15T06:20:50+00:00

If I identify as a woman do I get to decide if we keep the child?

Mushybasha · 2022-08-15T06:33:34+00:00

Both woman and men can engage in safe sex but only woman can have sex safely without her autonomy being at risk. It is of course one of the main reasons I remain abstenant and effectively MGTOW.

mllhild · 2022-08-15T07:05:18+00:00

Yes, for equal rights.

alwaysrightusually · 2022-08-15T07:29:05+00:00

First, in the context you’re using, it’s whether. You’re using “weather” which is what happens when it’s sunny or rainy or cold or warm. This is not meant to suggest you’re dumb, just spreading awareness.

Now. Let’s talk about this complicated question.

I’m a woman. I do believe that any man should be allowed to state as early as possible that he doesn’t want a child. Honestly the way it is right now is terribly unfair to men, bc the only way you’re “supposed” to behave is “keep it in your pants if you don’t want a baby.” That’s far from fair. A woman doesn’t have to do that (simply by biology she can get hers and not have any consequences).

That said, I do believe we have a responsibility as a society to feed unwanted- well, all- children. (Not the individual male only, but with taxes). I mean what happens if we mistreat them is they grow up and wreak havoc and that’s bad for all of us, but that doesn’t make a sperm deposit someone’s responsibility. It’s certainly only a woman’s by choice, as well it should be. (Well, it used to be, it’s obviously not anymore in all states, but that’s not the question).

If you’re a men’s or women’s rights supporter, then by any metric you should be a child’s rights supporter. BC children grow up to be men and women.

Finally, it’s messed up that in reaction to losing the right to abortion that activists have turned against men and are trying to create laws where they have to pay. If you compel a woman to have a baby, you should indeed compel the man to help pay for it- but that misses the point (and if you’re a man who wants to prevent the right to abortion then fuck right off bc it’s not your place).

Abortion activists should not turn their sights on fellow citizens, males, who are the fathers of these children. Our common fight for ALL our rights should be the most important thing.

So in summary, I will fight for your right not to have a child if you fight for mine. And if you don’t, then pay up, bc it’s unfair to the mother, father, and especially the child otherwise.

Outrageous-Leg-895 · 2022-08-15T08:51:39+00:00

I've said this for a long long time. Men have zero say in whether or not a woman has their child or not. You could argue that if he doesn't want a child he should use contraception to ensure it doesn't happen, however, oftentimes a woman will be on some kind of contraception that fails, or in some cases even lies about being protected. It is the responsibility of both to ensure that there is protection and if I was a man who didn't want a child that badly, I'd be sure to protect myself.

However. Yes I believe that men should have the option to reject parental responsibility if he doesn't want to father a child under the same reasons that a woman can abort. Agree that this must be done before the cut off date for abortion, and that it can never be given back (once it's done it's final and there will be no going to court to gain your rights back down the line when you feel like being a dad) and it cannot be done after a child is born or down the line. I completely agree its a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body and whether or not she bears a child, but I also believe that men should have some kind of choice over being a father too.

prayforblood · 2022-08-15T09:28:57+00:00

Absolutely without question. It would force women to be more careful with who they're sleeping around with, if they can "get stuck" with a child they can't manage, that would deter them from getting into that situation in the first place.

seii7 · 2022-08-15T10:53:40+00:00

I love how OP pretends this isn’t about anti-abortion vs pro-abortion and then goes on to write a pro-abortion post.

To answer your question, no. Men already have the right to decide if they want a kid or not, as do women. They can decide to have or not have sex, and they can decide to use protection or not, in the vast majority of cases. The only caveat being that for men, I think making an exception for rape actually makes sense, since “financial abortion” doesn’t include murdering an innocent human being.

oceansarevast · 2022-08-15T17:33:24+00:00

100 % against. Change the law that all father's to be automatically recognized as such, the same as mothers. Give father's the same custody and equal parenting time. No alimony, no child support, each parent has its own cost. No court needed by default. Women will immediately react to this and all so called unplanned pregnancies are gone. Allowing financial abortion will only cause women to claim social benefits, create laws to support them, and erode the father figure/rights.

KarateArmchairHistor · 2022-08-15T22:59:20+00:00

When I was in college in the late 1980's I suggested that as long as abortion is legal putative fathers have a say in whether the fetus is to be aborted or not, and if they want an abortion but a mother does not, then they would not be liable for any child support. I was completely killed by the women's studies crowd back then, but now, I am happy that this idea has taken hold and is actually seriously considered in certain circles.

Leading_Childhood778 · 2022-08-15T23:10:14+00:00

I mean, we do have a choice on when to become fathers. It's a condom. Or a vasectomy.

The other points are at least logically valid, but this post feels like it's hinging on a false premise.

f1gar0s_ · 2022-08-17T02:56:25+00:00

Ummm I know I'm gonna get downvoted for this but if you don't wanna financially provide for a child that is literally yours then why think it was a good idea to fuck someone you don't want to have a kid with?

And also I don't think it's a good idea to just fuck and then the woman doesn't want an abortion and you refuse to financially provide for that child even though it's your kid

"This is extremely unfair against men who do not have the choice or same right as a women to decide when they will become a father."
How is it unfair? If you don't want to be in the child's life and you're the one who created that child then you SHOULD be obligated to provide for that child because it's literally yours.

Should financial abortion be a thing ?

Comments

If she wanted it but is fine with abortion if he pays

Title	Should financial abortion be a thing ?
Author	iwasneverherehaha
Upvotes	602
Comments	539
Date	August 14, 2022 10:58 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wo3ofo/should_financial_abortion_be_a_thing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/should-financial-abortion-be-a-thing.1127327 https://theredarchive.com/post/1127327