The Market Value metaphor breaks down because products you buy don’t choose you back.

bluehorserunning · 2025-05-12T02:56:16+00:00

That’s why a barter marketplace is a better metaphor. You go to market because you have a cow, and you need some grain or a barrel or a multitude of things. But maybe the cooper need a dairy cow, not a beef cow. Or maybe your cow is ugly. Or maybe your cow is barren. Maybe the cooper doesn’t want a cow at all. You have to find the best trade with someone who has something close to what you want, who also wants what you’re selling.

Demasii · 2025-05-12T03:05:05+00:00

If you’re trying to market a product, your ultimate goal is to sell as much of that product as possible.

No it's not. It is to make the most profit.

If you have very few products then ideally you sell them at a high price. If you have a lot of products then selling them at a high price may leave some unsold which negatively affects the overall profit.

The metaphor holds up when describing general patterns rather than individual nuances. The real marketplace of commodities works the same. Some people are willing to spend x3 the normal price of some items because they value it more. I only buy certain food when they are on sale because they are not worth it to me at their normal price.

Yes, people have individual preferences but some characteristics tend to be more in demand than others. Those people with desirable characteristics will 9 times out of 10 want to date another with desireable characteristics.

r2k398 · 2025-05-12T02:17:51+00:00

I’d say it’s more like two parts that go into one machine. Both parts can be very valuable but if one part doesn’t work with that machine, it isn’t very valuable in that scenario. It’s pretty much worthless. In a compatible machine that same part can be invaluable.

bv0724 · 2025-05-12T02:18:55+00:00

People usually end up with someone within their league. If people are adamant about finding certain traits in a person, people usually go a league below, not full on dumpster dive. Just fishing down a league lets you optimize a whole lot. And honestly, it is not like we have 5 products on the market. Within one's league already has a lot of compatible people for most people unless the person is some extreme outlier.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2025-05-12T02:47:27+00:00

There are literally volumes of economics about contracting and bilateral transactions in markets. If you think the concept of market price is only relevant to spot market transactions for consumer goods, you clearly have very little familiarity with economics.

DarkNo7318 · 2025-05-12T06:58:23+00:00

It's still a market, just a barter market.

The labor market also fits really well. There is technically a seller and a buyer, but really its a mutually beneficial relationship.

Bouldershoulders12 · 2025-05-12T02:47:11+00:00

The market determines your value.

Whatever your results are will tell you your standing

stars33d33 · 2025-05-12T03:22:11+00:00

The dating market is essentially all based on looks , all dating apps top picks are people with model based looks - in shape, travel location pics, and high fashion. Men don’t care about an obese girls personality or career because she doesn’t meet his physical looks needs

jasonology09 · 2025-05-12T07:01:42+00:00

It's meant to be limited and an indicator of general opinion, not universal opinion. The factors you mentioned are assessed after the initial marketplace value, not concurrent to it.

DankuTwo · 2025-05-12T07:08:10+00:00

Markets do not just exist for goods, they also exist for services, in which both parties definitely have to choose each other…..

KayRay1994 · 2025-05-12T12:27:45+00:00

I think the market value metaphor is bogus to begin with because its attempting to treat human interactions and what works for different people as business strategy. As you said, its about turning a person into a product but I think the big issue with that is by treating someone like a product, you’re removing the humanity from them and instead are treating them like a reward for obtaining a set of traits (ie. a product you buy when acquiring enough capital)

John_Oakman · 2025-05-12T14:59:31+00:00

Modern studies of economics has been about the study of human nature and its interactions with each other (as well as the environment in which they inhabit), but like any other specialized fields the specific vocabulary makes it dehumanizing (and for the same reasons as well, in that it strips away the mysteries of the world).

YveisGrey · 2025-05-12T02:31:09+00:00

Yea the dating market doesn’t work like a regular consumer market and is more complex

AsturaeConiecto · 2025-05-12T05:46:50+00:00

It's not a metaphor.

Products don't choose you back but sellers might not want to sell to you. There is never a market where both agents don't have agency.

Job market is a market just the same.

JadeGrapes · 2025-05-12T03:09:53+00:00

It does via the price require to access, at least in a free market.

A lot of people have never had Good Champagne. It's not that they don't WANT to try it... it's the people selling it want a certain level of customer... so it's priced accordingly.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-05-12T03:43:09+00:00

Economic modeling is just one way of examining mating and dating, and one that tends to work best when used at a large scale where the law of big numbers averages out individual variance. It is also by no means the only perspective or framing that can be used.

At the individual level, there are ways economic modeling can be useful, but given how human minds work, it can be dangerous and lead to a bad way of looking at things. You shouldn't be going around trying to assess your mate value and hers, etc. The 'leagues' concept has always existed which does this very roughly and more implicitly/intuitively without making you all autistic about things. And even then, leagues should be used carefully. They just represent a superficial public perception and rough consensus. Mostly used to orient oneself when you do not know someone. You can still approach someone who is out of your league, you just usually do it differently at first.

And always remember that the idea that the market is the only determination of value has always been bullshit. We evaluate value in different ways. This is why people often ask why a pro Athlete makes more than a Hear Surgeon. We ultimately pay the first more because we have to. Don't know any other way that doesn't mess life up all around; but it's a limitation of human social technology and we often chaff at it. In addition, markets themselves are can get deranged for various reasons. Like all human things, it's messy.

freekin-bats11 · 2025-05-12T11:02:09+00:00

Right. And theres no 'invisible hand' determining anyones 'market value' bc people arent products. Relationships can also be a net negative at times and people still choose to 'invest' or rather stay in them not because its necessarily 'profitable' to do so (like making more with joint finances or having more opportunities to do things with another perso) but because theyre happy and fufilled with whatever relationship arrangements they have with their partner, which cant really be priced since most people dont want more than one partner and tend to favor their own pricelessly.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-05-12T14:17:45+00:00

You don’t have multiples of yourself, unless you’re planning on cheating

Products also have sellers, who don’t have to sell to you

anewlookav · 2025-05-12T16:04:34+00:00

I think it's more similar to the job market, with regard to interviews and how desirable candidates are just as selective about the employer as the employer is about the candidate. It goes both ways.

TheFunAsylumStudio · 2025-05-12T03:54:31+00:00

Males are not, and have never, been the selectors. Not in our species, and definitely not in any other animal species.

caption291 · 2025-05-12T02:21:13+00:00

If the "products" didn't choose you back, they would sell to everyone independently of how much money people are willing to pay for the product. That is compatibility just like a product catering more to group A than group B is compatibility between the product and group A.

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aslfingerspell · 2025-05-12T02:55:40+00:00

I think it holds up because even though buyers are exercising choice, the "sellers" also make their own choices: what to sell, where to set up shop, and even (for some industries) whether to take someone on at all. You can, of course, also choose to not be a business at all and just be single.

The dating market isn't exactly like a one-way market like grocery shopping, but it's sort of like a two-way market, like art commissions or hiring a lawyer, or even the "coconut model" about search costs. Artists choose which commissions they take, and lawyers speak of "hiring" and "firing" clients as much as the other way around.

To make a long story short, the Diamond coconut model is where you imagine an island where people only eat coconuts, but because of cultural taboos, you can only eat coconuts given to you by other people. Thus, you have to expend costs to climb a tree to get a coconut, then search for someone else with a coconut, after which you trade and both become climbers again.

OpticalEpilepsy · 2025-05-12T03:11:58+00:00

When choosing a mate, however, compatibility matters. You don’t just work out, take a shower, get a haircut, and get chosen by the first person who wants you. You are a person with your own motivations, and finding someone who is compatible is important. You get chosen and you choose back. Also, what is appealing to one person is unappealing to another. The point of choosing people isn’t to just appeal to as many people as possible and choose all of them. You are an individual, and the people you are meeting are also individuals.

The problem is there is some degree of objectivity to what people want. There are changes you can make that will result in a significantly higher/lower percentage of people being interested in you. It's not the case where no matter what changes you make the percentage of people interested in you remains the same because some people will like it and some people won't.

For example if an overweight woman loses weight to a point where she becomes skinny, while some men will lose interest in her for becoming skinny far more men will become interested in her for being skinny. Not some men will lose interest some men will gain interest so nothing changed.

Or if a man becomes better at harboring an interesting fun conversation, while some women will lose interest in him for that (probably not many but still), far more women will become interested. Not some women will lose interest some women will gain interest so nothing changed.

Attractiveness is somewhat objective. It's influenced by culture and biology and other things but let's put this rediculous idea that everybody is equally attractive because everybody has different preferences to rest finally.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2025-05-12T03:53:53+00:00

Location is often overlooked in the sexual market value conversation. Depending on where you are, you could be in high demand or completely invisible. This is why it's extremely important to put yourself in the location that yields you the best results.

As the saying goes, go where you're celebrated and not tolerated

DelDivision · 2025-05-12T08:14:16+00:00

Nah it still works cause not every product is for the masses. Just like you can be priced out of certain areas and products you can be priced out of certain people.

Plus some do go for first person willing to buy as they might not have a choice market wise to ignore or reject

growframe · 2025-05-12T08:18:06+00:00

The products you buy are being used to buy your money. You are trading something you want for something they want. If you aren't offering something the other party wants, the transaction won't go through.

Also, what is appealing to one person is unappealing to another. The point of choosing people isn’t to just appeal to as many people as possible and choose all of them. You are an individual, and the people you are meeting are also individuals. Therefore, the best option is always to be the best version of yourself. You will find people who like you, and you will find people you like. This will effectively refine your search to people more like you.

This is fairytale nonsense.

LevelCaterpillar1830 · 2025-05-12T08:20:15+00:00

Yes, we are all so special and unique and such wonderful individuals.

It's not "products you buy", it's products you TRY to buy (traits you find attractive), then their owner (the person with ownership over them) decides whether they'll hand them over based on your own traits and what you can share in return.

It's still economics.

Alternative_Cod2280 · 2025-05-12T10:35:50+00:00

The purpose of this metaphor is to point how relationships are treated as commodities and disposable product who are meant to be consumed or discarded whenever you feel like it.

This has nothing to do with whether the product like you in turn or nor because you can and will just get another on the same shelf.

How can you fail to understand something so basic?

washington_breadstix · 2025-05-12T12:21:36+00:00

As with most of these metaphors/analogies/what have you, I don't think every aspect has to match up with the real-life situation in order for the metaphor to be useful.

Dertross · 2025-05-12T13:18:42+00:00

The people selling can choose to do business with you or not.

It's just that it's been made illegal to refuse to do business with someone for most reasons.

Muscletov · 2025-05-12T16:56:13+00:00

If you put human sexuality on a scale, whereas 1 is blue pill's utopian fairy tale where everyone is a special snowflake and finds his match and 10 is a rational but also cutthroat free market, reality sits on a firm 7.

There are exceptions and (un-)lucky coincidences everywhere, but, overall, human traits are very easily ranked according to their statistical attractiveness.

Manifestival1 · 2025-05-12T23:25:41+00:00

If you're marketing a product you want to first know who your target audience is. Identifying gaps in the market is one way to go about it, but be aware that if you are aiming for universal appeal then you're in competition with everyone else who already has with the same offering. Unless you've created some sort of never before seen USP. It's the customers who are buying, not the product. You're the product. You're offering yourself to potential buyers and competing with other products who may well do everything you do, but better or also have additional features that you can only dream of possessing.

Acrobatic-Writer7734 · 2025-05-13T10:43:12+00:00

What is a transaction but an equivalent exchange of value?

Product or service for consideration? Product or service for a product or service is also a transaction.

I give you me, you give me you.

Transaction. Market hypothesis holds.

Thanks for coming to accounting 101. Next week: is land in the 21st century depreciable? You be the judge.

RayAP19 · 2025-05-12T02:23:12+00:00

If you’re trying to market a product, your ultimate goal is to sell as much of that product as possible.

In this instance, it still makes sense, because "selling" the product is equivalent to appealing to as many different people as possible. That's really all it boils down to-- how appealing the person or product is to others, and their ability to appeal to multiple different types of people.

bzl33 · 2025-05-12T04:17:25+00:00

95-99% of people don't get to choose much in life. Goes for college admissions or job hunting or dating or social opportunities. They get a couple of options and basically need to not fuck that path up. Compatibility is important but for most it's a relative measure between the options you have (applies to job hunting too).

There are a select few who get a bunch of options and they are overrepresented in social media. If you view yourself as one of those people when you aren't, you're in for a bad time.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-05-12T08:23:30+00:00

If you’re trying to market a product, your ultimate goal is to sell as much of that product as possible.

Not when you only have quantity of 1. Like one stock share, one vintage pullover, one used car.

When choosing a mate, however, compatibility matters.

THat is the point where you find a buyer who wants your vintage pullover or used car, while you like their offer for it.

You get chosen and you choose back.

Like in a market, where there are lots of offers for your vintage pullover and you pick the best offer.

The point of choosing people isn’t to just appeal to as many people as possible and choose all of them.

The marketplace analogy is not about "appealing to as many people as possible" at all.

Therefore, the best option is always to be the best version of yourself.

Which means appealing to a maximum amount of people while being yourself, compared to being a lesser version of yourself.

You will find people who like you, and you will find people you like.

Exactly, like in a marketplace where buyer and seller find each other at a pricepoint where both get what they want. You will get a better offer for your used car or pullover, if you clean it and put it into a good condition.

Clearly, you are bluepilled.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-05-12T13:20:26+00:00

I think what a lot of dudes here really need to hear is sayings from the real estate market

“You can’t buy a house that’s not for sale” “Some houses are never for sale” “Just cause you want the house, doesn’t mean that you have the means to get the house”

MaxDureza · 2025-05-12T05:02:19+00:00

No..the marketplace concept does not mean people are literally products being bought. That would be slavery lol...

People get and date other similar to their level or league. Their League depends on factors like how attractive they are, height, weight, money etc

AnxiousPeggingSlut · 2025-05-12T04:46:50+00:00

The Market Value metaphor is more problematic because it dehumanizes human relationships, whatever its accuracy.

Like we’ve all become 80/20, AF/BB, Markets (lol?), etc.

Red Pill turns dating into CNBC stock market graphs.

And I can’t think of anything more boring, tbh.

It isn’t about whether or where those terms fit, so much as the simple fact that looking at your relationships with other people as an exercise in day trading says some pretty bleak things about where people are.

Title	The Market Value metaphor breaks down because products you buy don’t choose you back.
Author	Downtown_Cat_1745
Upvotes	29
Comments	128
Date	May 12, 2025 2:11 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1kkhgkk/the_market_value_metaphor_breaks_down_because/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-market-value-metaphor-breaks-down-because.1551927 https://theredarchive.com/post/1551927

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