The real reason being a pick-me doesn't work is that these women are often insecure and don't know how to push for what they want

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-06-17T16:46:37+00:00

Two thoughts. If you feel that you need to manipulate a SO in order to get a desired outcome rather than talk like adults they probably not the right person for you.

Second if manapulation is actually at the top your list of problem solving list you are a walking red flag

EulenWatcher · 2024-06-17T16:37:26+00:00

You don't HAVE TO be manipulative. You need good boundaries and know what you want.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-06-17T16:41:24+00:00

Or you can just communicate.

MidoriEgg · 2024-06-17T16:46:48+00:00

Having someone who you know will do anything for you, no matter how degrading or unreasonable, might be a convenient thing to have , but it’s impossible to respect them and so it’s impossible to truly love them. You will resent yourself for treating them so badly and in the end you’ll resent them for letting you, and you’ll take out your own shame on them. You’ll constantly try and find fault in them so you can prove somehow that they’re just as bad, or they deserve the poor treatment.

At least that’s the dynamic I observe in those types of toxic relationships.

krackedy · 2024-06-17T16:45:25+00:00

You don't need to be subtle or manipulate.

You can just be a grown up and talk about what you want.

sanslumiere · 2024-06-17T16:37:50+00:00

There was a book that addressed this called "Why Men Love Bitches," and the underlying principal was that you can't expect anyone else to respect you if you don't respect yourself. Being a doormat in hopes of getting what you want is a bad strategy.

It didn't emphasize manipulation, but it did suggest that you communicate to set expectations clearly, and if things aren't moving in the direction you want after a couple of years, do not be afraid to leave the relationship.

Do not be so desperate that you'll compromise your own goals for the comfort of a known thing.

anna_alabama · 2024-06-17T16:59:35+00:00

If you feel like you need to manipulate someone into a marriage then they don’t want to marry you, so why would you want to marry someone who doesn’t want you? I didn’t have to manipulate, bribe, or pressure my husband into proposing. He proposed because he wanted to marry me, it’s as simple as that. Trying to force a marriage sounds like a recipe for divorce.

Teflon08191 · 2024-06-17T17:58:34+00:00

"Being a pick-me doesn't work."

"Women HAVE to be a bit manipulative, it's for their own good."

So is this to say that a pick-me is just a woman who isn't acting manipulative?

Zabadoodude · 2024-06-17T16:47:57+00:00

Being a Pick-me is being manipulative. It's pretending you are happy with something in the hopes that he will eventually do the thing you secretly want. It obviously doesn't work, because pretending to be the girl that wants to have 3-somes and never marry, attracts guys that want that too.

You don't have to be manipulative. You can be clear that you want marriage and kids, if that's what you want. The men that are open to that will be drawn to it. The men that don't want it will filter themselves out. Pressuring a guy into it is how you get regretful, checked out, husbands and fathers.

igotbannedsoimback · 2024-06-17T16:37:25+00:00

Women HAVE to be a bit manipulative, it's for their own good.

well this is an interesting thought process

Wowhowcanubsodumb · 2024-06-17T18:38:35+00:00

Some of your posts aren't bad, this one is just plain awful. "Subtly manipulate someone who doesn't really want marriage or kids into the situation" like holy shit that's really dumb. Why is "develop self respect and don't waste time on people who don't value yours" such a difficult concept?

iamtheSenate____ · 2024-06-17T17:10:28+00:00

I’m Convinced this is not a real woman.

SaBahRub · 2024-06-17T17:20:15+00:00

Or, like, walk away from people who won’t give you what you want?

John_Oakman · 2024-06-17T16:39:44+00:00

Leveraging social legitimacy value only works on the provider minded males, but it is those types of males that are unlikely to be chosen in the first place...

Cobra_x30 · 2024-06-17T17:39:43+00:00

No, the problem with this type of woman is that they target the wrong man. Like, half the guys out there would be obsessed with this woman and not willing to give her up. However, being a Pick Me type literally means ignoring these guys because they aren't what you want. THAT is the real problem with these women. It's a strategy for shooting for the moon in terms of dating.

Also, you don't have to be married to have kids, and if you want a marriage, any guy with a brain needs to have you sign the prenup up front that spells out exactly how assets get divided, caps child support, has cheating clauses, all that kind of stuff. Usually you pull out a document that says you can't screw a man over during divorce and suddenly nobody is getting married. Now what does that tell you about the institution?

RadicalQueenBee · 2024-06-17T17:51:10+00:00

If you want to get married, you have to actually push him for it. I am not saying there have to be ultimatums, there are subtler ways.

I have nothing to contribute to the conversation but what do you mean by that? If I wanted to get married I think I'd just ask for it.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2024-06-17T18:20:33+00:00

Being a pickme doesn't work because you'll be endlessly shamed by other women.

BrainMarshal · 2024-06-17T20:15:22+00:00

This kind of woman doesn't even exist lol

Expensive-Tea455 · 2024-06-17T23:17:05+00:00

Men also don’t like women who are super easy, they act like they want a woman like that, but they really don’t

PMmeareasontolive · 2024-06-17T16:57:00+00:00

For fuck's sake, is there really such a thing as a "pick me!" woman?

I have never seen one in my life. Maybe those women aren't picking me but I've never seen a woman so devoid of any sense of personal goals and boundaries, where as this sub seems to think they're everywhere.

I live in extremely liberal feminist places though. Maybe you all are from podunk towns or conservative cultures.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-06-17T17:18:57+00:00

You could also make it clear that you want XYZ out of this relationship, and if that's not going to happen, you'll leave.

Also, if we're talking about the person in your OP, them trying to manipulate anyone isn't going to work. If their partner is with them only because they're easygoing and a good placeholder, they're going to lose whatever minimal value they had to this person if they start being annoying/nagging/wanting things and thinking that they should be more than a placeholder.

MistyMaisel · 2024-06-17T16:31:56+00:00

What kind of manipulation are you suggesting?

Proudvow · 2024-06-17T19:49:01+00:00

"We don't need marriage to be happy together, lets not define things, I am a cool girl. Sure, we can have a threesome with a hooker. Sure l will clean your house even though we don't even live together. I am not going to pressure you for anything, the man decides." <--- This mindset is a great way to find yourself unmarried at 35 only for your boyfriend to dump you for someone else.

If she picked badly yes.

Lets be honest, most of these men would be happy being in the boyfriend stage forever. If you want to get married, you have to actually push him for it.

Or be the type of woman men want to marry.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-06-17T20:23:55+00:00

You don’t “have to be a bit manipulative,” in fact, being a pickme is a bit manipulative - they’re hoping to get commitment by acting chill and catering to the guy while pretending they don’t mind not having commitment. But you also should not have to “push” for commitment - that’s how you get a “shut up” ring and end up married to someone who doesn’t want to be married.

What is needed is to set some clear boundaries and expectations, which is not manipulative, but rather weeds out people who don’t want the same thing as you.

statsfodder · 2024-06-18T04:22:02+00:00

The reason being a pick me "doesn't work" is because you are not owed anything....

Everytime "nice guys" claim they should get a cookie for being nice they are lambasted but you seem to say women should demand the cookie, that they somehow deserve it..

Pffftt men and women need to grow a spine, set boundaries and stay firm on what you will accept and what you won't. Practice outcome independence!

balhaegu · 2024-06-18T04:51:36+00:00

Well if youre a gender equalist, then there is no reason for a woman to push for marriage any more than a man has to push for marriage. Why doesnt the man want to marry? If he dumps you for another woman, then dump him for another man.

The reality is that genders are not equal. Women are given the short end of the stick if a couple dates for 7 years and break up. The man at 35 is still considered almlst equally attractive by women in 20s but the 35 year old woman is close to losing her fertile years, and hence less attractive than the 20 year old.

Hence the reason men and women have different strategies regarding sex and commitment. For the woman, her youth is her greatest leverage, its more advantageous to ask for marriage if youre going to live together, so that the man would think twice about abandoning her 7 years down the line.

leosandlattes · 2024-06-17T17:21:51+00:00

Most men do not respect a woman with zero boundaries. That's the reason being a pick-mes doesn't work out. They also require validation from men to their own detriment - it is never enough to just have one man's validations for them, they are always craving validation from ALL men, and it comes across as off-putting.

69BillyMays69 · 2024-06-17T20:24:35+00:00

Pickmes aren't a real thing. It's just a term used by women to shame women that don't hate men.

CraftyCooler · 2024-06-17T20:42:49+00:00

Pick me is just another insult used by feminists to intimidate opponents or end discussion. New version of ad Hitlerum or ad Incelum.

Dishonouronmycow2 · 2024-06-17T19:07:21+00:00

I don’t think it’s manipulation to have firm expectations for yourself. Marriage is something I want, but I wouldn’t manipulate or beg a man to marry me. Having those boundaries upfront and making them clear saves time and heartbreak for the both of you. Ending a relationship because you’re not on the same page is ultimately the best choice

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Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2024-06-17T18:37:41+00:00

Or you can propose

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-06-17T19:13:23+00:00

The actual real reason being a “pick me” doesn’t work is that only a very undesirable woman would even think to try to appeal to men in a way that gives them what they want, essentially it comes from desperation and the only woman that can be desperate for men are extremely undesirable.

PradaAndPunishment · 2024-06-17T19:56:23+00:00

I agree, but there are two levels to the pick me. One is what you've described and two is the pick me who does get picked only the picking from her husband doesn't end with her.

The latter is either coaxed into a one sided open relationship or she brags about how she became a martyr on the altar of her husband's dalliances and forgave him. Neither of these women's lives are aspirational but men would want it to be.

Ok_Landscape_592 · 2024-06-17T20:52:56+00:00

I agree. The reason for pick-me women being stereotyped as failures with men isn't b/c men dislike agreeable women, it's b/c these women go out of their way to be agreeable to compensate for not being the most popular among men to begin with. Maybe b/c of looks, being weird, offputting quirks or whatever.

Salt_Alternative_86 · 2024-06-17T20:53:45+00:00

Yeah, don't be a side chick and especially don't have threesomes with hookers. The red pill is VERY clear on women fawning over abusive "bad boys", and we don't offer a forgiving take.

That said, there's a massive difference between being honest about what you want, and being manipulative. If anything, lying and doing things to get what you want is being manipulated. However, siding against objective evil that would not even be debated if the shoe was on the other foot is often called being a pickme. Truth is, it's bate minimum for baseline morality.

Werevulvi · 2024-06-17T22:13:42+00:00

Yeah, how about actually communicating with your partner instead of following a scripts of either being a doormat or a manipulative... I dunno what's the opposite of 'pick me,' misandrist feminist?

I often get called a 'pick me.' There's a big difference between A) caring about men's opinions in general because they're human beings and you want to impress someone you love, care about and respect as a person and want for him to do the same for you because you think all those things in a relationship are a two-way street and things you earn by showing the same things first, even if some stuck up feminist think you're doing this just to get dick, and B) letting yourself and your own value down and disrespecting your own worth in favor of what men think regardless of if what they think is actually wholesome or unfiltered garbage, literally just to get dick.

Both could be considered a 'pick me' I suppose, but one absolutely "works" way better than the other. Because what people are accused of doing or intenting, isn't always true. I'd even go so far as to say it's rarely true. There are some women out there who think another woman respecting men is a bad thing because that goes against their narrative that men are some sorta evil monsters who can't possibly be reasoned with. Me then saying "actually they can be reasoned with, they're human beings too, and you're not that helpless for being female" is a threat to their ideology of women's perpetual victim compl-- I mean oppression. Usually that's what I get from people who call me a 'pick me.' They're really just annoyed that I don't step on men to uplift women. It doesn't really reflect much at all on my intentions and actions. Sometimes people just hate me (and a lot of other people) for no reason, so they make up a reason.

But sure, actual doormats who cater to other people's every whim do exist as well. But usually not because of just wanting dick. More likely this is an unhealthy coping mechanism (people-pleaser) for an irrational fear of conflict, which applies to all of their relationships, not just the romantic/sexual ones. They end up repeating the same pattern in friendships, with family members, even complete strangers, out of fear of being hated, abandoned, called lazy, or told they're being selfish, without realizing that they've gone way overboard with "I just wanna be kind and accommodating and I don't want drama" which is far more commonly the actual intention.

But regardless... I'm just flabbergasted at how you managed to pick possibly the worst two options of how to behave in a relationship. Would you date a man who behaved in either of those two ways? Ie either he's a total dormat catering to your every whim seemingly with no brain of his own, or he's selfish and manipulating you into a lifestyle you do not want? Be honest. And then ask yourself again if this is good advice to give to women. Or anyone, for that matter.

Men who don't want to get married probably have a reason for why that is. Maybe he saw his parents' shitty marriage and got put off by the idea, maybe he's just not sure about marrying you specifically because you're a total dormat (your own example), maybe he just doesn't see the benefits of marriage, maybe he's fearing the moment he has children his wife will run off with the kids and his money. How would you know? Because it's not like you talked to this hypothetical boyfriend before resorting to psychological abuse. This is actually mind-blowing. I've heard a lot of bad advice before, but this is some of the worst ever.

TheAvocadoSlayer · 2024-06-17T22:34:15+00:00

I agree with what others are saying. Being manipulative is being a pick me. Although you can push for marriage without being manipulative.

pence_secundus · 2024-06-18T01:38:05+00:00

I agree in part, it's important that my girlfriend and soon to be fiance pushes me to new heights, gives me something to focus on outside of my own things.

throwaway1276444 · 2024-06-18T08:34:30+00:00

So i got married to the same girl that I dated from the age of 21 to 31. So around 10 years before we got married.

I was simply a bit tense with the idea of a wedding ceremony. I didn't like the idea of having 2 families meeting at a party. Different cultures. I knew my mother would demand traditional, and would get really pissy about it.

We lived together for 8 years like husband and wife for most of it. Shared finances, eventually bought a house together. Trying of kids. I never had any intention of breaking up with her. She never cleaned my place when we lived apart. Even though I would do the dishes if she made me dinner.

Once we moved in together, a lot of chores were shared.

She didn't manipulate me to get married, although she did set a date and booked a place, then told me about it. I was just very anxious about the party, not about being with her for the rest of my life.

Anyway, I got through the day, it ended and here we are 12 years on. With kids and an even bigger house.

I think it is the relationship itself, that defines the situation, not a proposal.

OkEstablishment6852 · 2024-06-18T17:25:44+00:00

You don't need to be manipulative just know you won't put up with crap and your needs don't come last if you don't tolerate disrespectful behaviour you will end up with a quality person. Controlling people love pushovers it's easy prey with minimal effort.

bloblikeseacreature · 2024-06-18T19:32:34+00:00

being a pickme is universally repulsive behavior. that's why it doesn't work. only absolute bottom feeders will take pickmes. abusive men who aren't good at lovebombing or charisma.

JollyRoger66689 · 2024-06-18T00:28:50+00:00

Man this is so telling how bad some women are. They are straight up going to call you a pick me if you aren't trying to manipulate men, why do women hate women that don't hate men?

MothBoySailor · 2024-06-17T17:28:11+00:00

You know, outside of the redpill tradcon circles, its easy to find women that genuinely don't want to get married and would straight up tell you no if you told them you wanted to. I don't understand why the people that want to get married can't stick with other people that want to get married.

Wild-One-107 · 2024-06-17T17:56:01+00:00

" This mindset is a great way to find yourself unmarried at 35 only for your boyfriend to dump you for someone else."

Yes because sex negativity and trying to force marriage upon me will definitely make me commit to her.

( that was sarcasm )

januaryphilosopher · 2024-06-17T18:18:51+00:00

If you have to be manipulative and push, this person doesn't want to marry you and you're better off going now and saving the money for the divorce. Someone who doesn't want to be waiting about is better off determining plans early through open communication and leaving if it's clear there's no future in sight.

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2024-06-17T19:08:24+00:00

I’m a married guy. If you have to push a guy for marriage, you were never seen as long-term material in the first place

sexual_powerhouse · 2024-06-17T20:52:30+00:00

I don't really think that's what pick mes are doing though. Pick mes just prefer the company of men and act like simps for the men they like.

Every pick me girl I've ever met are all in happy LTRs/marriages.

reddit_is_geh · 2024-06-18T01:23:27+00:00

HOw would being a pick me girl be a bad thing? Don't guys flock to these chicks? I never hear of pick mes complain about meeting men.

Common-Ferret-1435 · 2024-06-17T17:15:10+00:00

That’s exactly why pick mes do work.

The man does it for her and gets her what she wants.

There’s this big lie that Pick mes are some mentally ill women, this is untrue.

Pick mes are just women who don’t hate men, that’s why all man hating feminists, which almost every woman here is, hate pick means and spread lies and propaganda to discourage other women from liking men.

Feminism is a hate group.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-06-17T16:55:39+00:00

This mindset is a great way to find yourself unmarried at 35 only for your boyfriend to dump you for someone else.

It's a great way to land a wealthy man like myself. I explicitly only date women like this. I've never dumped one without cause. Usually it happens around when they decide to give me an ultimatum or decide to no longer be cool without a ring. I don't date manipulators or liars unfortunately or uncool girls.

Title	The real reason being a pick-me doesn't work is that these women are often insecure and don't know how to push for what they want
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	31
Comments	110
Date	June 17, 2024 4:29 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1di2cgp/the_real_reason_being_a_pickme_doesnt_work_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-real-reason-being-a-pick-me-doesnt-work-is.1521846 https://theredarchive.com/post/1521846

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