What is the difference between being "strong and independent" and being an adult?

Im_Unsure_For_Sure · 2024-07-09T06:53:33+00:00

I've never met a strong and independent person who describes themselves as "strong and independent"

I think it's similar to men who always want to talk about how badass they are. They're never anything close.

EulenWatcher · 2024-07-09T05:42:48+00:00

That would imply that any SAHMs/SAHFs, people with disabilities unable to hold a full time job or being dependent on others for help, elderly etc. aren’t adults.

GridReXX · 2024-07-09T04:58:16+00:00

I usually hear it from women. And personally I’ve typically heard it from women from disadvantaged disenfranchised backgrounds who are countering a history or assumption or perception that they or women like them are “weak and dependent.”

At some point in their life they felt disrespected by being seen as weak and dependent or taken advantage of because of that so now they’re overcompensating with that “strong and independent” mantra.

The women doing it on TikTok like in your example kinda feel like they’re mimicking the struggle of some black woman they heard say it.

fuckedupridiculant · 2024-07-09T12:20:43+00:00

The purpose of those statements is just emotional support for women rather than an actual factual thing.

SleepyPoemsin2020 · 2024-07-09T08:08:17+00:00

Saying "strong and independent" (or in the case of the tik tok works hard + pays own bills + is independent) is more specific and highlights particular qualities some assume women to be lacking as a group. As such, it's generally a defensive response to assumptions, explicit or implicit, that said woman needs a man. It may also be that women who have faced financial or mental health barriers, etc., may also be more prone to say this.

The statement tends not to be well received, as people often view it as overcompensating or others view it as insulting to men.

ElPwnero · 2024-07-09T08:28:21+00:00

Its just a dumb title people appoint to themselves

noafrochamplusamurai · 2024-07-09T06:36:03+00:00

Being an adult only requires surviving until you're 18. The other requires taking responsibility, and ownership of your life.

CoyoteSmarts · 2024-07-09T09:24:22+00:00

In the context of that specific TikTok, she's a very pretty, feminine-presenting woman, and it looks like she supports herself MUCH better than the average person. (She's drives a Mercedes, goes on luxury trips, etc.)

So she probably gets smeared with the sugarbaby/kept woman brush quite a bit - or the "fucked her way to the top" permutation of it. That's what she's responding to.

(She's a social media manager, BTW.)

MistyMaisel · 2024-07-09T11:39:42+00:00

My estimation is that the strong and independent thing is about needing or relying upon others, or not doing so rather.

thelajestic · 2024-07-09T12:44:03+00:00

Lots of adults aren't independent and don't seem to possess the capability to be independent.

When I was at uni my friend, a 20 year old man, would take his laundry home to his parents.

At one point, I had 4 flatmates and none of them paid their own rent. Three of them didn't work at all, or at the most picked up a summer job. One of them needed to open a bank account and took his mum with him because he didn't know what to do. Three of them got parental financial help with their first mortgage deposit.

If you can't cook, can't clean, can't balance a budget, can't set up a lease or sort your mortgage, buy your insurance, can't book your own holiday, set up appointments, or do minor household repairs then you're an adult but you aren't actually independent. And loads of people can't or won't do some of these things.

Look at the wealth of Reddit threads with people asking how to do basic tasks - "how do I book a holiday?", "how do I get the train?", "how do I clean my kitchen?". Think about work - I know I'm not the only one who's dealt with co-workers who seem to be completely unable to think for themselves or find an answer by themselves.

In addition, guys on here moan a lot about women expecting to be paid for. A woman who expects to be paid for may be an adult but isn't independent. In the context of that tik tok that seems to be what she's referring to - she's worked for and paid for what she has, and not relied on handouts. Yes, this should be the bare minimum for adulthood but lots of people don't meet that.

3kindsofsalt · 2024-07-09T13:53:47+00:00

People who do every single thing for themselves and have zero help or support don't want you to be impressed. They want a break.

This person is playing pretend.

toasterchild · 2024-07-09T14:31:23+00:00

If i think of people who are adults but not independent i picture ones who can't make a decision without calling mommy and daddy.

hearyoume14 · 2024-07-09T15:03:51+00:00

I think of hyper-independence, which is a trauma and insecure attachment response, when I hear that. If you have to tell me you are strong and independent are you really?

alebruto · 2024-07-09T05:31:14+00:00

It's because to our society, the things that make a woman "amazing" are just a Monday to a man.

What they see as a "plus" in women is "the minimum" for men.

It's interesting that they do this while arguing that men and women are equal, or that men are unnecessary.

To exemplify:

A woman who lives with her parents is just a woman, while a woman who lives alone is "strong and independent"
A man who lives with his parents is "a failed loser", while a man who lives alone is just a man

DissociativeRuin · 2024-07-09T08:35:33+00:00

Women are told from birth they've been victimized and are the only victims. Not that life is cruel and full of war and violence and that is our heritage.

So for women it seems to be a chip on their soldier that overcoming perceived oppression from men and achieving adulthood is exceptional as opposed to simply expected. For men, doing that isn't even enough.

You'll never see a locker room full of men standing around talking about how strong and independent they are. It's not that they don't face incredible difficulties, it's just not rewarded to say so.

Women feel that when they do the smallest extra it's an intense effort. Emotional labor etc. It's not. It's pretty much nothing but for some reason men reward it because pussy or something. I don't get it.

I hold women to the same expectations I hold men and on average women perform far lower and need much more guidance, as well as seek sympathy instead of self improving.

I have been saying for decades and will continue to say so but in a mixed gender environment women appear and act as children, and at best put on a serious and destructive front similar to insecure men.

DarayRaven · 2024-07-09T05:25:04+00:00

The quote sounds narcissistic as hell

Obvious_Smoke3633 · 2024-07-09T13:19:27+00:00

I've never referred to myself as a strong and independent woman because I think being strong and independent is kind of a life requirement? Not exactly a brag. But I have encountered men who say that I am too strong and independent for them because I work a lot of overtime and work in a male dominated field, lived alone since I was in my early 20s, and do everything for myself. Which is kind of confusing because like, I have to work to pay my rent and pay for stuff? I think it's just an old trope I don't hear many women referring to themselves this way in real life.

Flash_4_Crab · 2024-07-09T15:04:35+00:00

We live in a cultural in which women applaud other women for doing the bare minimum. The whole "strong and independent" is just word games that make it sound like it's some sort of accomplishment.

TopEntertainment4781 · 2024-07-09T17:11:41+00:00

I think this is a hold over from older generations - GenX and above.

When I went back out on the dating market in my 20s (early 00s), I ran into a lot of men who were in more lucrative fields who were very worried about gold diggers. I got annoyed with them treating me as if I wasn’t already doing well. I used it as a shorthand to say “don’t even try to buy me.”

leosandlattes · 2024-07-09T05:52:31+00:00

I dunno if you’ve ever been around people from disadvantaged backgrounds, but often in their families being an adult doesn’t require any of those things. Or rather, it’s just a marker of age.

If you are from a background where adults use welfare services for extensive amounts of time, or where it’s common for family members or parents to rely on their kids for things like rent money, bills, etc., then from their POV, being an adult does not imply being an independently functioning member of society.

Which is why you hear “I’m strong and independent” it’s from a specific kind of background or upbringing. Usually poverty.

MyUpSeemsDown · 2024-07-09T08:58:51+00:00

No way you'd hear pillers utter those words, their whole shtick is to mimic someone who can convey charisma by acting as if they have it all figured out, keeping their cool and "logically sound," while it's all a cover, this sub for very painful example LOL. And surprisingly lot of them know enough about how small dogs bark the loudest, so they try not to be seen that way.

I think its a phrase is mainly relevant to girls, probably because there's a remaining image of tradition that women were dependent of men. I'm not arguing for or against such contention, just acknowledging that it exists. And it is quite the phenomenon, you hear enough girls saying they are strong and independent, now manlets like RPers are scared to step up to even try and talk to them, so maybe they are onto something. But regardless of the gender, the psychology of forwardly trying to portray such image by saying that they are, and them actually being that way without having to say that they are, I'm sure is a discrepancy we're very familiar of.

As an additive, it is interesting that there exist capable people, usually women, who try hard to portray that image even though they are already of the image they want to portray, the easiest speculation to fall on to being that maybe they feel as if they aren't being heard? Gotta wonder where the disconnect is.

RubyDiscus · 2024-07-09T14:47:49+00:00

There is no difference.

It is just being an adult lol

Blightning421 · 2024-07-10T01:27:01+00:00

In my experience those that claim to be "strong and independent" are often neither. I've known many women who have made that claim, but their parents still pay the bills. One woman had her parents rent her a whole town home, and buy her a car. She still claimed to be independent.

It's often a lie to compensate for the harsh reality that many of these women are actually just older spoiled children

Disastrous-Sound-694 · 2024-07-10T07:51:00+00:00

Whenever I hear someone say they are “strong and independent” I always take it as they are emotionally strong and independent. That they aren’t kids or teenagers anymore who rely on their parents or other people.

I like to think I’m independent though some might not think so considering I’m a stay at home wife who is financially dependent on my husband.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-07-10T14:18:51+00:00

Well, it’s pretty outdated, but most adult women in the past didn’t have the opportunities to do those things. Hence, the distinction between being an adult woman who depends on a man vs. being “strong and independent.”

Planthoe30 · 2024-07-09T05:59:04+00:00

Being an adult I feel like is more related to keeping yourself alive. Like having a job, keeping up with hygiene and other basic survival skills like cooking. Independence would be like not relying on other people for the things that make you happy. This commonly references the lack of need for romantic partners. However I also think part of independence is having skills that enable you to not need the advices of other people to be successful or accomplish your goals. Independence is somewhere beyond survival.

nemma88 · 2024-07-09T14:25:25+00:00

I make my own money.

I pay my own bills.

Drive my own car.

Things like that, which yes is crazy; but because these really are antiquated terms now, that were applicable when society, media etc had different expectation. Portrayal of Women in Film and Media throughout the ages is a good place to look for historical presentations.

I was going to say I hear this very infrequently nowadays, but tbh I can't remember the last time I heard someone say it of themselves at all.

meisterkraus · 2024-07-09T09:02:05+00:00

I am a strong independent woman is code for I am a bitch.

Unable_Evidence_4028 · 2024-07-09T12:42:48+00:00

It is being a mediocre adult. Not even a functioning one. Thats why you cant find many women who call themselves strong and independent" who can do everything you expect from a normal adult, including taking criticism. Way too many women use what some men call "dellusions" to feel better about themselves. This is often the example.

Different_Cress7369 · 2024-07-09T07:43:45+00:00

Because historically women were not allowed by society to be independent. Women had to be answerable to their father, brothers, husband or sons. They weren’t allowed their own home, car, bank account or career. Working class women had their income ceded to the male head of the household, and middle class women were removed from the workplace upon marriage. Claiming to be a “strong, independent “ person is about the desire to not return to the days of being an adult dependent on the mercy and good nature of the male head of the household.

relish5k · 2024-07-09T11:13:44+00:00

the company you keep. i can’t imagine knowing any woman who would post this, it would be cringe. but if you’re friends with a bunch of young hot under-educated women who spend a lot of time and money on their appearance it makes more sense.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-09T05:21:09+00:00

Women are still told they need to be taken care of, in many places

CraftyCooler · 2024-07-09T07:29:14+00:00

Behind every 'strong and independent' woman there is a wealthy dad or husband.

I hear it usually from girls having wealthy parents - money is not enough so they need to be admired for things that are out of their reach, make it on your own is one of such things. It's cringe af but they are rich - there will always be someone ready to provide validation.

Tywinlol2 · 2024-07-09T06:01:52+00:00

The difference lies in the mentality. Person who says this usually does so to downplay contributions that potential loved one can bring to their live, usually as means to inflate their own value. It's toxic and stupid, and also usually delusional. It fails to recognize that going though life as two is almost always is easier then as one, not to mention that if you live in society, as opposed to on the island all by yourself, you depend on contributions of others everyday.

Handsome_Goose · 2024-07-09T05:24:10+00:00

A functioning adult would not have said that

MotleyCrew1989 · 2024-07-09T15:54:37+00:00

Easy, you dont expect to be praised for being an adult

Commercial-Formal272 · 2024-07-09T20:02:51+00:00

The bar for women is so low that them behaving like a functional adult is beyond expectations and worthy of celebration. Don't worry, the bar for men is dropping by the day and I fully expect to hear them using the "strong and independent" catchphrase soon enough.

I'd like to note that I'm not condoning the low expectations, simply observing public sentiment.

just_a_place · 2024-07-10T05:29:33+00:00

"Strong and Independent" is the buzzwordy itching-powder that Capitalist Society blows down people's pants in order to then sell them the ointment of "Success." That ointment doesn't fucking work by the way and leaves people itching for more.

The point is to make your ass insecure so that you work work work your asses off to make someone else rich while your dumb ass keeps running at the hamster wheel in the greater rat race of life. Let the serfs believe they can labor their way into becoming royalty. That'll hold them to the plantation better than any whips or chains.

Title	What is the difference between being "strong and independent" and being an adult?
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	27
Comments	187
Date	July 9, 2024 4:50 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1dytx3g/what_is_the_difference_between_being_strong_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-the-difference-between-being-strong-and.1523705 https://theredarchive.com/post/1523705

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