Hello Purple Pillers! I hope I'm not too much of an interloper here, I recently discovered this sub, and to be honest, I'm not as personally connected to a lot of the issues discussed here, having been married happily (for the most part!) for 20+ years. That said, I've been following a lot of the red pill and anti-red pill content on the Internet for the last couple of years with a degree of interest, as I did make some significant and painful mistakes in my younger days that I think could've been avoided, and now I have a 12-year-old son, who will soon be entering this whole world that seems to be in such turmoil at present. I'm also concerned at the societal level that people in the modern world are not forming families as much as they used to do, and all of the downstream negative effects that is likely to have for our society. This conversation really matters, in my opinion!

That said, I do think there are some bad ideas floating around, maybe I can do some small part in steering things in a better direction.

Let me say first that I do think the red pill as I understand it gets some important things right:

  1. The modern world has brought about changes in male-female relationships that are not entirely positive.
  2. Women are entirely capable of using their "oppressed" status to abuse men.
  3. Following the mainstream's fairy tales won't necessarily lead to happiness for men (or women).
  4. There are things men can and should do to increase their odds of finding love.

In sum, it's probably just that it's right and good for men to take a good hard look at the messages we're receiving about how we should go about interacting with the opposite sex, and think about whether there might be a better way.

Now, to the list of what the red pill as I understand it gets wrong:

  1. Red pillers constantly conflate dating/casual sex and marriage. The vast majority of men will be happier being married to one good woman than they would trying to put as many notches on their bedpost as possible. So for them everything the red pillers are saying that's based on trying to live like Andrew Tate or JW Waller is just irrelevant to their pursuit of happiness in life. You don't need to "attract women", you need to "attract a woman", and the two things are very, very different. This whole discussion of "women like this, and women like that", is mostly irrelevant, you just need to find one woman who likes you. But red pillers won't even clarify whether they're talking about casual sex or marriage.
  2. Red pillers therefore misstate what for most people constitutes a "high value man". They seem to think that the metric of high value is number of sex partners. But again, most men are happiest married to a good woman. So, who is the "winner" between the playboy prowling the bars at age 50 however successful he may be at it versus the proud father at age 50 walking his daughter down the aisle in front of hundreds or watching his son get his first hit in MLB? Most men are going to end up much happier aiming for the latter. Red pillers talk as if there is no other metric to a happy and fulfilling life except number of sexual conquests.
  3. Red pillers therefore cannot even see or really even imagine who the best woman are. For red pillers, all woman are essentially ruled by their primal instincts, only responding to "protect and provide", basically alternating their attraction between the two depending on the time of the month. Those are not the best women, those are broken women. Throughout every era in history and still in many, many places around the world, the most sought after women are virgin brides. Granted, that's fairly rare in modern societies because of how our culture and technology have evolved, but the true "high value men" are still seeking and finding relatively innocent women for long term relationships. Believe it.

So adding all of the above together, the red pill correctly identifies the difficulties that many young people are facing in trying to navigate male-female relationships, but their prescription is flawed as it relates to most men, who would do better to eschew the world of casual sex and focus on finding one good woman to marry and start a family with. Some red pill advice is transferable, certainly becoming successful in some sort of endeavor, being physically active, and basic hygiene, grooming and fashion will all help, no matter what the goal is. But the idea that the only men who can be successful in love are millionaire playboys is just utterly wrong; your average dad standing behind the bbq on a Saturday afternoon, with a few dozen friends and family members around is likely just as, if not more, happy.

Flame away, what did I get wrong?!!!