FEMINISM WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD

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You can practically decapitate 6 months olds like the freaking Taliban in California. If you don't like the rules of your state you have plenty of places to go. Fact is that the original supreme court ruling was horribly flawed, and we had never actually put the issue in front of voters like a democracy should. Dodd means people are going to get to vote on it... and so far they have been. The strength of the country is that local people get to choose how they want to live, not that some asshole 1000 miles away and doesn't know or care anything about them gets to tell them how to live. As for child marriages... that quote has already been primarily debunked, and it isnt a major issue people face. Feminists are not needed in our current situation.

As for labor unions... we need to radically alter them as a structure. Public worker unions need to be ended immediately, it's a ridiculous conflict of interest. Private sector unions need to be supported and grown, but they need be controlled by the workers, not some giant international organization that fucks them over at every opportunity.

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[–]Refusetosay12Blue Pill Man (because rue pilled was too subtle) 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How are the people of California not "local people"?

And the Missouri rep was arguing for 16 and 17 year olds to be allowed to marry each other, with parental consent, which is the current law. I think kids that young marrying is a bad idea, but I don't think it's abusive or asymmetrical. Not my business if someone else wants to let their kid marry another kid.

In New Hampshire a rep did argue, I'm pretty sure during a debate on lowering the age of consent, that letting "ripe and ferftile" girls marry could lessen the demand for abortion. So there's that.

It's odd though that in a red state like Kansas, when abortion was on the ballot, something like 59% of Kansasn supported some access. Good luck getting the Kansas elected officials to enact anything or to not fuck with the will of Kansans on this topic. And good luck getting those elected officials unelected in a heavily gerrymandered state. Further luck getting this Supreme Court to hear a case on such.

Labor unions often fights battles that hurt their cause. They are political entities in most cases and their members votes are for sale. That's wrong, but corporations by the congressional votes of our reps also. Both situations could do with a serious overhaul. I'm not remotely a fan of public worker unions' behavior, but I'd rather attempt reform than ban them.

'

[–]Jaded-Worldliness597Red Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't know what you missed in what I said. Let Californians decide how they want to live. Why Should we care? We don't live there. That's my point. Kansas also backs up my point, they want some form of it. What the fuck do we need feminists for?

The New Hampshire rep is legit, and while his wording is odd, the argument behind it is for more freedom given to people in choosing how to live their own lives. I probably wouldn't pass this law myself, but if people in New Hampshire want to talk about it... why not?

Labor Unions today don't give a crap about labor, and that's my problem with them today. The laws that regulate them are from the 60s and were designed to hijack them into political causes that I don't think their membership cares about. We need to fix it, but the amount of caterwauling from corporations and the disgusting pigs who benefit from this basically make it impossible.

I'm going to call this ahead of time and say we are like 90% in agreement on this stuff. The world doesn't need feminists anymore, we need some group of people that are willing to put a massive amount of cultural and financial capital around helping boys. Where the boys go the girls will follow.

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Perceiving any guy who talks to a girl or even goes with girl on a date as a potential rapist murdered. This actually results in action, if you approach a woman there's a good chance some other woman intervenes to save her from "harassment", if you go on a date you'd get waiters asking your date "are you ok, this guy is creepy, do you need a taxi"

All the anti-workplace harassment measures that can get you fired for asking a woman from the largest social circle you have, your workplace, on a date

Destroying discourse around male dating problems with "you are not entitled" derail and framing in a way where women's behaviour can never be viewed negatively. Again it's "just words" well words have consequences. What options to change women's behaviour are there, what incentives could've been in place, it's impossible to know, because these ideas are completely locked from ever being considered.

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Disclaimer: I briefly flirted with anti-immigration politics before being pulled from the brink and before realizing the substantive sham of the alt-right. This was the era of Lou Dobbs, just before Trump.

Having said the disclaimer above, I have the position of Make Male Mental Health Great Again and Make Women Pay For It.

The alt-right hasn't figured out both sides of the equation. Even if they had their way with abortion bans and ending no-fault divorce, that still doesn't solve the first part. Even alcoholic men beating their wives is a distraction.

Sex-negative fourth wave feminism is responsible for the male loneliness epidemic. Women as individuals and as an entire sex need to be held collectively responsible for male mental health. Want us to go to therapy? Pay up!

The collective option would be a "systemic sexism" approach to "free" therapy, just like Social Security started with limits based on systemic racism.

Example: The British National Health Service should discriminate against mental health users who are women, putting them to the back of the waiting list line. Mental health users who are men should be given "emergency wait times" urgency.

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[–]AnalSexIsTheBest8--No Pill Beta Man 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (100 children) | Copy Link

After years of trying to fit many contradictory info I was getting from feminists and other women, like how can they simultaneously like being dominated in bed, but are outspokenly against male dominance otherwise, or how they want a masculine partner while ranting against the toxicity of masculinity, I have recently come upon a realisation that shook me to my core and finally put all the pieces into the place: unlike what a minority of very loud radfems would let you believe, most women don't want to do away with the institution of the Patriarchy, merely remove its unjust oppression and the corrupt authoritarianism of its agents.

When women rail against the Patriarchy, they rail against being seen as ontologically inferior beings than men, marginalised by the wider society, denied their agency, constantly sexually oppressed and generally existing as possessions who exist only for the men. They don't rail against strong, powerful, competent men treating them like princesses, they don't rail against bad boys boldly approaching them, they don't rail against being thrown into the mattress and having their hands squeezed above their heads. Why? Because they like it. They like the masculinity, the boldness, the assertiveness, the power. What they don't like it when that masculinity is used to unjustly oppress and marginalise them, but they undoubtedly like it. In this regard, most women are like French Third Estate during the French Revolution; after years of fighting against the Ancien Régime, they near-unanimously installed Napoléon the Great as the Emperor of the French. Why? Because the Third Estate wasn't against the institution of monarchy, but against the corruption within it. Once a candidate they deemed worthy appeared, they had no problem bowing down to him.

This is very important, because many men have been led by feminists to believe that masculinity and boldness themselves are inherently oppressive and disrespectful towards women, which then results in a surprised bafflement when women go on to date "assholes" (they aren't assholes, they are just manly and bold) instead of "nice guys" (who are weak and wimpy). Most women very much don't want to lead the relationship or be with a wimpy man, even if they are feminists. Most women very much want and desire strong, powerful, competent men for partners, it's just that they also want to be treated as people and have their opinions and values also be taken into the account. As one woman aptly told me: I want to have doors opened for me, flowers bought and compliments expressed. I just don't want to be treated like a walking incubator. In other words, the ideal man for most women is an enlightened despot, not a liberal egalitarian democratic male feminist.

Sorry if this wall of text isn't very clear and likely all over the place. It's too many thoughts too compress in a timely manner.

[–]Throwaway4CMVtho 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BrainMarshalPurple Pill Dammit Jane We Are Men Not Action Figures! 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They don't rail against strong, powerful, competent men treating them like princesses, they don't rail against bad boys boldly approaching them, they don't rail against being thrown into the mattress and having their hands squeezed above their heads. Why? Because they like it. They like the masculinity, the boldness, the assertiveness, the power. What they don't like it when that masculinity is used to unjustly oppress and marginalise them, but they undoubtedly like it. In this regard, most women are like French Third Estate during the French Revolution; after years of fighting against the Ancien Régime, they near-unanimously installed Napoléon the Great as the Emperor of the French. Why? Because the Third Estate wasn't against the institution of monarchy, but against the corruption within it. Once a candidate they deemed worthy appeared, they had no problem bowing down to him.

That's a long way of saying women like to be treated preferentially when it benefits them, but offer nothing in return for that.

Women do not and never did deserve strong, powerful, competent men treating them like princesses. They don't deserve "bad boys boldly approaching them", they don't deserve "the masculinity, the boldness, the assertiveness, the power". Most do not give nothing in return, much less anything of value.

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[–]_noneoftheabovewoman 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Women are attracted to benevolent sexism - meaning they want preferential treatment.

That’s interesting, but it doesn’t demonstrates that women “want to be treated better than men,” which was your original point. According to that article, “benevolent sexism” = adherence to stereotypes about women and traditional gender roles (i.e., man as provider and woman as dependent), which definitely does not automatically mean “preferential treatment” for women. Does a man who expects to be the “leader” in a relationship want to be treated better than women? (I would say yes.)

Unless you're dirt poor you have access to some of the best health care in the world to protect you. This isn't the medieval ages!

Thanks, and not relevant to my point. The notion that men are “sacrificing” for women for “nothing in return” is ludicrous when women are the only ones taking on the physical risks and burdens of carrying, birthing, and nursing children.

[–]BrainMarshalPurple Pill Dammit Jane We Are Men Not Action Figures! -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

From the link:

man as provider and woman as dependent

oh God, that's literally a woman being treated better than the man. He's literally busting his ass to support her and can be taken to the cleaners in divorce court.

Also did you not see "Men who were nonsexist were liked more than the hostile sexist men, but still less than the benevolently sexist men." Men who are egalitarian are liked less than men who coddle women.

Literally all of this means women want to be treated better than men.

Does a man who expects to be the “leader” in a relationship want to be treated better than women? (I would say yes.)

Being the leader in a relationship is a burden not a perk.

Thanks, and not relevant to my point. The notion that men are “sacrificing” for women for “nothing in return” is ludicrous when women are the only ones taking on the physical risks and burdens of carrying, birthing, and nursing children.

It's very relevant to your point. Outside a Red State your risk is low compared to the rest of the world. And not all women want kids, either. A lot of these men are sacrificing for childfree women.

[–]_noneoftheabovewoman 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

You are adding your own view that 1950s gender roles result in women being “treated better” than men. That’s an amazing claim, one that I can’t imagine any reasonable person agrees with, and it’s not at all supported by those studies. I have the precisely opposite view. A man who expects a woman to be subservient to him, to defer to him, and to forgo any financial independence of her own, is certainly someone who thinks men deserve preferential treatment in that aspect of their relationship and most likely in society in general.

Being the leader in a relationship is a burden not a perk.

Being confined to the domestic sphere without any financial independence is a burden and not a perk. It’s almost as if traditional gender roles confer some benefits and burdens on both parties….

Outside a Red State your risk is low compared to the rest of the world.

You’re not getting it, and you seem to be suggesting pregnancy is like a walk in the park in a country with decent healthcare. Even the best pregnancies involve immense physical stress, pain, and gnarly physical effects after birth. It is a far greater sacrifice than any man will ever make for me.

And not all women want kids, either. A lot of these men are sacrificing for childfree women.

Sure. The fact you think women, as a rule, offer “nothing in return” to men reveals a lot about your views on women. I can’t imagine anything I say will change that.

[–]BrainMarshalPurple Pill Dammit Jane We Are Men Not Action Figures! 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

You are adding your own view that 1950s gender roles result in women being “treated better” than men. That’s an amazing claim, one that I can’t imagine any reasonable person agrees with, and it’s not at all supported by those studies. I have the precisely opposite view. A man who expects a woman to be subservient to him, to defer to him, and to forgo any financial independence of her own, is certainly someone who thinks men deserve preferential treatment in that aspect of their relationship and most likely in society in general.

LOL go back and re-read that study, it addressed exactly this concern. Women want a man who will break his back to provide for her but also a man who will NOT expect a woman to be subservient to him, to defer to him, or to forgo any financial independence of her own. Women want all the perks and none of the drawbacks.

Being confined to the domestic sphere without any financial independence is a burden and not a perk. It’s almost as if traditional gender roles confer some benefits and burdens on both parties….

Being the leader has no value to me in a relationship. I got married to be one of two Clydesdales pulling the cart rather than one.

Even the best pregnancies involve immense physical stress, pain, and gnarly physical effects after birth. It is a far greater sacrifice than any man will ever make for me.

Will ever? Try saying that if any danger hits your household.

The fact you think women, as a rule, offer “nothing in return” to men reveals a lot about your views on women. I can’t imagine anything I say will change that.

Most relationships now are empty and transactional and are about him being an accessory or worse an action figure to boost her social status. I'm surrounded by Y's and Zoomers complaining about how their sex lives died within 5 years of getting married. Tons of miserable spouses who aren't getting divorced (and thus don't count on the divorce stats). Most of them run home after their shift is over - presumably not to play basketball and definitely not hanging out with the guys. Bet they're doing the housework for a dead bedroom.

If I were a Millennial or a Zoomer I'd never get married. Eugh...

[–]_noneoftheabovewoman 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Women want all the perks and none of the drawbacks.

Lmao okay. Don’t you think men would prefer to maintain the norms from the past that benefit them while shedding the negatives? Nothing in that study says women want to be treated better than men, just that women tend to be more attracted to men who want to keep certain superficially positive aspects of traditional gender roles. I haven’t interrogated the methods of that study, but I’ll accept the results. I would certainly not be represented in that finding.

Being the leader has no value to me in a relationship. I got married to be one of two Clydesdales pulling the cart rather than one.

Good for you? Sounds like something you should take up with your wife if you’re having issues. I also personally have no desire to be financially dependent or stuck inside my house, so I’ve never given the time of day to guys who expect that.

Will ever? Try saying that if any danger hits your household.

Lol, so my certain sacrifice pales in comparison the vanishingly small possibility my partner will have to physically defend me from an intruder? This is a silly game.

Most relationships now are empty and transactional and are about him being an accessory or worse an action figure to boost her social status.

Strange assumption for someone who is apparently not in one of these relationships. Why would anyone enter a relationship with all the freedom they have in 2024 if they weren’t benefiting from it somehow? And how many Gen Zs do you know who are married? The oldest ones are like 25 right now. I’m a millennial and that is not my impression of the relationships of the people around me.

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Masculinity is not the same thing as the patriarchy.

It kinda is. For the most part, masculinity = power and power = patriarchy. How can you have a construct which embodies physical strength, high social status, high competence, fortitude, risk taking, dominance and aggression and not have it evolve into a social system with it on top?

Women can be attracted to and value positive aspects of masculinity and still want to work towards a system where men and women share more equal social, economic, and political power. And, yes, obviously women do not want to be considered and treated as second class citizens.

Yes, which is exactly what I have been saying.

I’m surprised any of this is a revelation to you.

It is a revelation, because I used to believe that being a niceguy can get you as much respect and attraction as being a masculine man, plus, all the feminist antimasculinist rhetoric on the internet that I have consumed. It completely warped my perception of what women respect and find attractive.

Liking masculine men does not mean you want to be subservient to them.

Yeah, which is what I've said. The "enlightened despot" would be a foreman, not an overman.

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Masculinity encompasses many traits in addition to and apart from a preoccupation with dominance, aggression, sexual conquest, and power for the sake of power. I'm sure you recognize the downsides of those aspects of masculinity. A man can embody healthy masculinity by being physically and mentally strong, courageous, goal oriented, etc., while not being hellbent on dominating everyone around him. A lot of men like that exist.

You also seem to be confusing the concept of "patriarchy," which is a social system, with what women are sexually or romantically attracted to in their personal lives. What I like in bed has no bearing on how I want to be treated out in the world. And it doesn't even have any bearing on how I want the "power" in my relationship to be distributed outside of sex. I can like that a guy is confident enough to make the first move or whatever while still expecting an equal relationship without a "leader." Similarly, my fiancé can like that I make most of the decisions about what we do on weekends without wanting me to control every other aspect of the relationship. I'm not interested in any man being a "foreman" in my life, and I don't think most women are.

[–]AnalSexIsTheBest8--No Pill Beta Man 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A man can embody healthy masculinity by being physically and mentally strong, courageous, goal oriented, etc.,

All this falls under the umbrella of power, because it achieves prosperity.

You also seem to be confusing the concept of "patriarchy," which is a social system, with what women are sexually or romantically attracted to in their personal lives.

These are linked.

What I like in bed has no bearing on how I want to be treated out in the world.

This is such a libfem doublethink that I keep wondering how anyone can say it and not be willfully ignorant about the inherent contradictions. Yeah sure, you're a girlboss outside, but a submissive slave inside and those two are totally, completely, wholly unrelated.

I'm not interested in any man being a "foreman" in my life, and I don't think most women are.

Why do you generalise your experiences to most women?

[–]_noneoftheabovewoman 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

All this falls under the umbrella of power, because it achieves prosperity.

I need to think about this more. Some wires are getting crossed here, but I’m having difficulty putting my finger on it.

This is such a libfem doublethink that I keep wondering how anyone can say it and not be willfully ignorant about the inherent contradictions. Yeah sure, you're a girlboss outside, but a submissive slave inside and those two are totally, completely, wholly unrelated.

What insight do you have into it? It’s common knowledge that some of the most financially and professionally successful men are into being dominated by women sexually. How does that translate to their lives outside the bedroom? For the record, I’m neither a “girl boss” nor a “submissive slave,” and your assumptions aren’t well taken.

Why do you generalise your experiences to most women?

I have a general sense of what the women around me expect in their relationships, and I read pretty widely. That’s the best I can do, unless you have data.

[–]AnalSexIsTheBest8--No Pill Beta Man 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s common knowledge that some of the most financially and professionally successful men are into being dominated by women sexually. How does that translate to their lives outside the bedroom?

Source?

Always an interesting conversation. I'm focusing more on the kink aspect of dominance, although you meant it more broadly. My experience, being connected to the femdom community for many many years, is that whether a man is successful or not is NOT a predictor of whether he's more or less likely to be sexually dominant or submissive than a man who is not successful.

I do believe more men in general would identify as (sexually) dominant rather than submissive. But among men who identify as submissive, there's all levels of success. The old trope "successful executive just wants to give up power for a while" certainly occurs. You'd think if there were some huge obvious absence of successful sexually-submissive men, someone would have noticed it by now. Successful men are neither over- or under-represented in the femdom scene.

As a bit of a side topic, the entire notion that successful men are socially and business dominant, has become less and less true the past 30 years. Maybe it was usually true until the 1990s, and maybe it's still true in certain professions like finance. But these days, it's technologists and engineers who are becoming wealthy in droves, and in that profession, you get LOTS of socially not-dominant, introverted people. In tech-heavy areas, it's full of rich nerds who were dominanted socially by guys who picked other professions like finance, law enforcement, etc. These business-successful but not socially-dominant men, are still more likely to be sexually dominant rather than sexually submissive, IME, because again , social dominance isn't the overriding determiner of sexual dominance. In short: I don't even buy that successful men are always socially dominant anymore, at least not those who came by their success through more analytic professions.

I have a general sense of what the women around me expect in their relationships, and I read pretty widely on the internet.

So we are about the same.

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Honestly its not convenient at all. I wish it wasn't like this whatsoever because then it would have been easier for me to also call myself a feminist and to cooperate with feminists. Instead, because I actually try to be egalitarian in practice through my actions, I'm quite lonely with my beliefs and politically homeless.

Why do you call yourself a feminist? Is it because you believe in equality or because you believe that its specifically women who are disadvantaged and that men hold privileges over women?

Because that latter part is exactly my problem; it isn't objectively true in Western countries and its little more than a solipsistic exercise of feminist women subjectively framing themselves as the ultimate victims while completely glossing over not just the significant disadvantages men have always faced, but the disadvantages they themselves have helped to create such as for example the sexist domestic violence policy.

In fact, the whole belief that western women are disadvantaged is build on the sexist belief that women have less agency and need extra protection. Once you believe this, you're not actually striving for equality no matter how much you theoretically claim to be for equality.

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Of course it is. If others are so limited as to be unable to even know what they believe, then certainly any idea they might have is obviously not worthy of your consideration. As in, your own ideas can never be challenged and you have nothing to worry about ideologically speaking.

This is based on my experiences speaking to them, I used to call myself a feminist and I have read many feminist texts. Also your last sentence really does not apply to me at all, I'm not like that.

Equal rights under the law is certainly possible while recognizing there is a difference between the sexes and that many social conventions no longer apply or are healthy.

Again, I don't disagree, but this difference isn't overall disadvantageous to women more so than it is to men. Most feminists scoff at the idea that both men and women experience disadvantages and advantages of similar magnitudes in this manner, they instead dogmatically believe that their gender is disadvantaged and they don't care about empirical proof for or against it, they will believe it anyway.

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I despise feminism and I watched its steep decline in popularity under Obama. When Elliot Rodger went on his rampage 20% of Americans wanted to be associated with feminism. 2 years later it hit 18%. Eighteen. Percent. of Americans wanted to be associated with feminism. Women were riding high on equality and feminism was on its way out popularity-wise. #WomenAgainstFeminism was as big as #MeToo got to be.

Then Trump came along and destroyed all of that progress. Grab 'em by the pussy, lock her up, stormy daniels... feminism's popularity fucking soared.

Seems that when you elect a government that drops its boot on the necks of women, feminism rises from the dead and roars back to life. Strange how that works out.

Though that's not the reason why I stopped voting Republican in 2003, it is why I will never go back.

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You are referring to rape accusations and the like? And I assume 'they' in your statement are feminists? I never actually heard anybody state all women should be believed under any circumstances, but let's assume some radicals hold that opinion. So what? The vast majority of men, women, and even feminists disagree. The data is mushy, but all evidence points towards false rape accusations being extremely rare (I trust you to have reviewed the literature yourself). If you disagree, show me one group or institution who is taken seriously advocating for 'automatically believe all women'.
Btw - you wanna know how I flirt? I just walk up to a woman who I feel is gazing at me and start kissing her. One single time I was hit with 'no, I have a boyfriend', apart from that I never received any negative reaction. It would be incredibly easy to construct some accusation from that approach, but with just some regular dude as me, there just is absolutely no incentive to? Just learn to read a room, don't be a dick and take a no as a no and you'll be safe.

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Really? That’s odd. In the UK it happens roughly like this:

Women were contributors to the household, working in partnership with their husband. The husband would harvest the raw materials (wheat, wool etc). The wife would turn these into flour or bread, yarn or woven fabrics and clothes. These were things women could do as a collective while minding each others children. When the industrial era hit, these jobs were moved to factories, which didn’t allow women to work in them. So very quickly women were stripped of their power and contribution to the household. Poorer women were forced into jobs in elite households, serving food and cleaning. Men who were forced from the field into factories felt like robots, stripped of their freedom. This then led to the suffragette and suffragists campaigning for women to be able to enter the workforce and for the vote for women and working class men.

I think what you’re focusing on is contraceptives and sexual freedom in the 1960s as feminism. Easy thing to get confused about when you aren’t aware of history and economic implications of the industrial era.

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[–]Ok-Independent-3833 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Alright, 0,5% of abortion is due to incest, and 1% due to rape. I yield on those, I accept abortion ONLY in 3 cases, danger on the life of the woman, inviable fetus, and rape.

What about the rest? Most abortions are elective, just because the women does not want it. I do not accept the death of 73 million babies a year because women do not take responsibility for their actions, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE AT LEAST 17 CONTRACEPTIVE METHODS WTF.

This is what I mean when I say that feminism is extreme libertarianism but for women only, you ask of them the bare minimum (don't kill children, use prevention) and they can't do that, what the actual fuck.

Birth Control Pills
Patch
Vaginal Ring
Injection
Implant
Hormonal IUDs
Copper IUDs
Male Condoms
Female Condoms
Diaphragm
Cervical Cap
Sponge
Tubal Ligation
Hysteroscopic Sterilization
Morning-After Pill
Copper IUD
Fertility Awareness-Based Methods
Withdrawal

[–]basteandpilledBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]-BlatherskiteBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I've never had an accidental pregnancy, but I will say I've tried a lot of those options with horrific consequences. The pill makes me suicidal and incapable of orgasm. The shot made me gain an excessive amount of weight and I bled the whole time, plus I was incapable of arousal/orgasm with it. The IUD was honestly the worst and traumatic and I don't want to get into it because everything about it was SHIT.

My body simply can't handle that stuff. Condoms work for me and my husband, and if we did have an accidental pregnancy, we'd want the baby. However, if you asked me that when my son was about 2 and under, I'd say hell no. I would have sought an abortion. I know mentally and physically I couldn't have handled it. Especially mentally. I had the most wicked postpartum depression with my son. It was BAD. I genuinely believe if I'd have gotten pregnant in that state and been forced to carry a baby, I would have killed myself. Honestly, there's no doubt about it.

Do you think in that situation, it would be better for both me and the fetus to die? Or just the fetus? I think it would have been better for me to stick around and be able to continue to raise my son and be with my husband.

I've heard so many stories from women, even some like mine. I have nothing but empathy for them.

I don't like the thought of abortion being used as birth control, and I think it rarely is. I've been pregnant. I wanted to be pregnant. However, if hadn't wanted to be, the only way I can describe pregnancy, is torture. I did not have good time with it. As for birth itself, that's extreme torture. It's something a man could never possibly even hope to understand.

The birth of my son left me with PTSD and a host of other issues, and I believe if a woman/girl doesn't want to risk any of that, they shouldn't have to. Women should be allowed to choose themselves, not be forced to go through unimaginable pain and torment for the sake of a fetus.

Women who want and love their babies sometimes die because of pregnancy/child birth complications and that's a sacrifice they are willing to make. I don't think anybody should be forced to risk their life/health/sanity for a fetus. It just seems barbaric and cruel to me. Incredibly inhumane, and I don't resonate with anybody who could force someone innocent to endure that kind of horror.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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It's everywhere.

It's so much everywhere that 3rd feminism successfully made catcalling twice forbidden in my country, while circumcision and draft are still up and doing well.

Anyways, the vast majority of feminists are all about equality, but some aren't, like TERFs. They hate trans folk and are bigoted as hell. Can't stand 'em, nor can most feminists.

From my perspective, libfems are just like TERF but with more lies and marketing. TERFs are just more explicit about feminism being a female empowerment movement.

Most feminists will say the draft is bad and unfair.

Then do nothing about it, it's better to care about african women FGMed 10 000 km from here

It's like this meme "I support short men! BTW my bf is 6'2", it's marketing, it doesn't translate to a reality of militantism. Feminists even point fingers at movements for male issues like they're evil. The only thing that has been progressing these last decades is concern for infantile male genital mutilation but somehow foreskins are still disgusting to them so it evens out.

[–]-BlatherskiteBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

It's so much everywhere that 3rd feminism successfully made catcalling twice forbidden in my country

Okay good, sexual harassment should definitely be illegal.

while circumcision and draft are still up and doing well

I'm curious what country you're from. I'm Canadian, and I will say it tends to be more liberal thinking folk who are against both those things. I find most feminists are liberal, unless they are TERFs. I can't speak to TERFs without getting heated, but I've never had a conversation with a regular feminist who wasn't against either of those things.

I also think, at least among liberal women, a lot of us aren't circumcising our son's and we tend to side eye and scorn the women who do. At least that's how it was in the baby groups I was in when I had my son. Whenever it was brought up we as women devolved, haha! The majority I would say were against it by far. The debates would get nasty to say the least. It became a banned topic in almost all the groups I was in.

Then do nothing about it, it's better to care about african women FGMed 10 000 km from here

Do you understand just how barbaric FGM is? Do you understand how cutting off the clitoris and slicing up the labia, sewing it together to make a teeny tiny hole for their eventual husband to rip open, isn't quite the same as circumcision?

I believe both are bad, both shouldn't exist, but they aren't inherently equal in terms of atrocity. I can understand why feminists would focus on the issue that is happening to women. I know it happens in Canada, illegally, yes, but it does happen.

Also, why are we solely blaming women for all this? What exactly are you expecting us to do? Why aren't we holding men to the same standards as women, by the way? Why aren't men stopping their son's from being circumcised? How come whenever I enter comment threads about circumcision it's full of men saying they are happy that they were and they'll be doing to their sons, or they already have because they wanted their kid to LOOK like them. It's the strangest thing, yet one of the most common arguments.

Now, I dated a guy with a botched circumcision when I was 19. I've been vehemently against it ever since. I also know that around 100 babies die a year in the USA because of complications from their circumcision. I personally think it needs to be illegal except for when it's genuinely medically necessary. I know most feminists think the same, but I'm not really sure what you expect women to do about your problem beyond not doing it to our sons? Why can't men also band together and help outlaw such a heinous thing? Again, why are you focusing on women when it comes to a mens issue?

somehow foreskins are still disgusting

Yes, why are men telling other men this? I feel like it's worse than how women speak about it. Women can definitely be immature about this topic, but even more will say a dude with a foreskin feels significantly better. For me, there's no comparison.

My husband isn't circumcised. He's not had one negative experience when it comes to sexual partners. Nobody has ever commented on it. Maybe that's more of an American thing though.

[–]Eastossman (つ▀_▀)つ 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay good, sexual harassment should definitely be illegal.

It was already illegal, they made it illegal again. That was so urgent that they had to do something useless to appease the raging feminists.

I'm french. And Macron does play his field well giving useless things to feminists that don't matter while men and women have demanded equal parental leaves for men for decades. Socialists in france used to be more feminist and egalitarian than feminists ever were.

I'm Canadian, and I will say it tends to be more liberal thinking folk who are against both those things.

Canada you mean that country that pursue sperm donors for child support? Canada is not a great example of equal rights for men.

At least that's how it was in the baby groups I was in when I had my son.

Most women I hear claim that foreskins are disgusting as hell, from the USA or from france. But then will complain that porn sets unrealistic beauty standards on women because of labiaplastie and bleached assholes. It's actually incredible to have been raised by women who warned me porn sets unrealistic standards only to find out most women take their ideas of dicks from porn.

Do you understand just how barbaric FGM is?

Do you understand how barbaric african countries are? Do you think FGM is the only bad shit happening when these countries are also at war and having other backward problems like slavery and human trafficking? And how there are enough problems to care about at home before trying to move the attention toward another country?

I don't fucking care how barbaric FGM is, IT IS ILLEGAL ALREADY. I also don't care that africans are starving we have homeless people starving at home too and they're more important. The point is feminism doesn't care about men because when they're done taking care of women's problem then they move on to women's problem from another country. It is fine you know, feminism is a female empowerment movement, but stop pretending it cares about men's issues.

Also, why are we solely blaming women for all this? What exactly are you expecting us to do?

I actually don't. Feminism is a work effort from both men and women, and also from "philanthropist" capitalists who pour money in feminism because it's good for their benefits. People should understand that men and women both prefer to help and protect women first and foremost, it's an innate bias in both of us, that's why feminism has to not be taken seriously, why it has to be told it's wrong, why I tell people that no it doesn't care about men's issues.

And this is also why claiming that men should deal about their own issue is such a bullshit argument, feminism would have never worked if it wasn't sided by men to begin with. So men's rights should also be full of women supporting it and taking actions.

But the other side of this problem is also that I have even less respect for blue pilled libfem men because they're the most man hating people there is, they're lost causes, I consider that a woman like you has more potential to open their perspective. Well, you have more open perspective already, but here I'm simply telling you that you're more rare than you think among feminists, women who think like you IRL do not claim to be feminist, they tend to think feminism is hysteria and will judge problems individually.

I also know that around 100 babies die a year in the USA

Wonder if you heard it from me on here xD

Yes, why are men telling other men this?

What? I hear it from women. Men don't care about other men's dicks. Circumcised men have tendency to want their kids circumcised because they are and for no other reason, some might do it because they think it'll be beneficial to their kids because of women's expectations. But never actually heard men do it for personal taste in how dicks should look like.

A decade ago it was mostly arabian women, now white women picked all that from porn and the USA.

[–]Large_Wishbone4652Purple Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 2 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]-BlatherskiteBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The fact that you can read this--

Type 1: This is the partial or total removal of the clitoral glans (the external and visible part of the clitoris, which is a sensitive part of the female genitals), and/or the prepuce/clitoral hood (the fold of skin surrounding the clitoral glans).

Type 2: This is the partial or total removal of the clitoral glans and the labia minora (the inner folds of the vulva), with or without removal of the labia majora (the outer folds of skin of the vulva).

Type 3: Also known as infibulation, this is the narrowing of the vaginal opening through the creation of a covering seal. The seal is formed by cutting and repositioning the labia minora, or labia majora, sometimes through stitching, with or without removal of the clitoral prepuce/clitoral hood and glans.

Type 4: This includes all other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, e.g., pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterizing the genital area.

--and imply it's not barbaric is genuinely sick, and I think you need to deeply reflect on that. You should be outraged that this is happening to innocent little girls. That is how a normal human would feel.

Then you wouldn't only be banning FGM but ban genital mutilation.

This is quite literally what most feminists want. Go to any feminist pages and look it up! Go on r/AskFeminists and look up circumcision, they are basically unanimously against it.

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Women are far from equal. Women don't even have bodily autonomy. It's literally been made political when it shouldn't even be a discussion.

Do men get denied emergency lifesaving medical care? Because it now regularly happens to pregnant women in red states. Oh, you've got a dead rotting fetus inside you? Well abortion is illegal. Too bad so sad. Come back when you go septic and are moments away from death, maybe then we might help you.

Literal children, I'm talking 10 year old little girls who have been raped by relatives, have been forced to give birth or flee their state because of these draconian laws.

This is SICK. As far as I'm concerned these are basic human rights that have been denied to women and girls, then men want to go off about how these same victims are so privileged and men have it so hard.

You know what, tell me how that little girl is more privileged than you. I'm curious how you'll spin this one.

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Title	FEMINISM WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	1
Comments	352
Date	June 1, 2024 4:01 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1d5q816/feminism_weekly_discussion_thread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/feminism-weekly-discussion-thread.1520259 https://theredarchive.com/post/1520259

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