Are men really the gatekeepers of relationships?

SocioPathicLunatic · 2020-07-18T18:16:39+00:00

High status men are the gatekeepers of relationships. Your average Joe? Hell no.

staypositivebrad · 2020-07-18T18:04:56+00:00

Only men that women are willing to have sex with are the gatekeepers of relationships.

If I say "NO RELATIONSHIP FOR YOU" they're just gonna fucking lol because none of them were considering me for that anyways

SaBahRub · 2020-07-18T19:35:30+00:00

Whoever wants it less is the gatekeeper. Don’t overthink it

SslimReaperr · 2020-07-18T20:42:04+00:00

No, women are the gate keepers of sex and relationships. Only a small group of elite men in terms of looks/status/etc could be gatekeepers of relationships. Lot’s of the men here play right into the apex fallacy, because they desperately want to believe they are like Chad.

trueorfalsedmitry · 2020-07-18T18:13:43+00:00

Men can be the gatekeepers of commitment, but, more often than not, do not exercise that option. Most AFC's commit to the first woman who they can stand to be around for more than 10 minutes and wants their commitment. Chad is the ultimate arbiter of who will get commitment or not.

illegallad · 2020-07-18T18:27:46+00:00

Some men are, many men will happily marry the first woman to give them the time of day. The “Chads” don’t lock down so easily.

jigglypuff__0 · 2020-07-18T18:28:25+00:00

Yeah the saying “women fuck who they want and men marry who they want” is misleading.

Yes I’d say men are the “gatekeepers” of marriage but they’re only gatekeeping a tinyyy percentage of women that would want to and are willing to marry him. Also, if she doesn’t want to fuck you, she doesn’t want to marry you (unless you’re rich and she doesn’t like or love you but wants to use you).

In the average males life time, they’re are probably only a handful of women that genuinely want to marry him for love and for who he is. That’s after years of courtship, dating and fucking. If the woman doesn’t want to fuck you, she’s not going to want to marry you for you. So the saying “men marry who they want” is misleading. For the most part the average woman could probably sleep with 80% of the men she wants but when it comes to marriage, men are limited to only the women who fall in love with him or the women who want to use him for money. Either way the woman has to open the gate first.

Alberic2092 · 2020-07-18T18:02:12+00:00

I find it hard to believe how any man who stumbles his way to r/PurplePillDebate could still believe that. Women are the gatekeepers of sex and relationships, men are the gatekeepers of resources and potentially status.

pongaminbloom · 2020-07-18T19:31:05+00:00

The men that are gatekeepers of relationships are the ones that don't really want relationships. Don't date those, and the problem is solved.

The same goes for the women that were gatekeeping relationships with OP. Why jump through hoops to earn commitment from someone who doesn't wan't it?

SDW137 · 2020-07-18T19:13:40+00:00

The gatekeepers of relationships are usually women. Attractive guys are the exception.

TheIntrepid1k · 2020-07-18T21:05:40+00:00

Well, the thing is that women benefit most in terms of happiness from having kids. Most men I would say want kids, but most women I know are crazy about kids.

In that sense, women benefit more from having a family than a man emotionally, whereas men value their personal freedom more than women. Again, this is generally speaking. The opposite exists. In my experience, most of the fathers in my life that I know haven't been nearly as involved with their children's lives than the mothers. Biologically that makes sense too because males biological imperative isn't to nurture children, its to conceive as many a possible and at most add some protection to them. Women literally physically change during and after birth, physically. Their hormones align them to nurturing rather than mating. A lot of mairrages end in the first two years of a child being born because the mother changes so dramatically that weak relationships tend to snap under the weight of these changes. Not to mention, the added stresses of not getting sleep etc etc.

LotBuilder · 2020-07-18T18:44:05+00:00

For the men that women actually want to be in a relationship with... they are the gatekeepers of relationships. Guys get stuck in the friend zone... girls get stuck in the friends with benefits zone. They are good enough to fuck but not good enough for a relationship.

decoy88 · 2020-07-18T20:08:28+00:00

Generally the one who chases it more isn’t the gatekeeper. The one who reluctantly agrees is, because they have to “allow it”.

Since stereotypically, men are more about sex and less eager to commit to the woman, they are the gatekeeper

Think about who does the proposing and who waits in hope for the proposal?

It’s not a hard rule tho

ResponsibleCharacter · 2020-07-18T20:22:30+00:00

Yah, because by "gatekeep" you mean "select." Women are the selectors, it's evolutionary biology. Without a woman's interest there is no contact whatsoever, whether purely sexual or a relationship. And despite what men on here would have people think, most women are not spreading it around very much for a variety of reasons (lack of interest, lack of benefit/return bc sex isn't as pleasurable for us until we and a partner have practiced at it, social constraints, all of the above).

Nephilim8 · 2020-07-19T00:27:20+00:00

Women are the gatekeepers of both. But they are in a stronger position when it comes to sex. The reason this is the case is because women have more options than men, men like women more than women liked men, and because women have higher standards about who's good enough to marry. Also, women often don't trust men, so he has to do more work to actually prove himself.

If you were to look at it on an individual level, there are cases where the woman or the man is the gatekeeper of the relationship. For example, if a guy who's an "8" is hooking up with a girl who's a "6", she's probably going to also want to be in a relationship with him and he's not interested in that. Does this prove that men are the gatekeepers of relationships? No, it's just a consequence of him being higher value than she is.

In the case where they're both equally attractive, things get complicated and depends on what each person is looking for right now and how they feel about each other, but on average, I'd say the woman still has more gatekeeping power than the guy. In the case where she's impatient and wants to get married and have babies right now, then he ends up being the gatekeeper.

I'd be nice if we could make simple statements like "whoever wants it least has the power", but even that's not strictly true since many women want men who are super into them and make them feel beautiful. (Romance novels, for example, generally follow the pattern of "super-hot, high value guy can get any woman, but he sees one woman as special among all other women and he can't stop thinking about her".) If a guy is apathetic, he doesn't end up with the power - rather - she breaks up with him for not doing the work and not making her feel attractive.

snapse · 2020-07-18T18:11:38+00:00

Not at all! Not on the standard dynamic anyway; men ask and women decide.

Update! I think I was wrong in that statement! In the standard dynamic men ask so they get an element of gatekeeping there; you can't start a relationship with no-one to initiate the yes/no process. I still think that women have the majority of the gatekeeping power in this scenario but not all.

2020-07-18T18:12:32+00:00

Only alphas are really gatekeepers of relationships since most women want them to commit.

Average man is a keeper of neither. But that doesn't men he can not improve his situation.

FeniZio94 · 2020-07-18T18:06:09+00:00

It highly depends on context

Overall yes... in the grand scheme of things (and taking out insemination technology out of the equation) women have a monopoly on social interactions, but it is men who hold the monopoly on commitment.

Even statistical data such as most dudes not worrying about marrying at some point in their life vs the vast majority of women (most studies would always throw a +-70%) do believing a relationship is highly important in their future

It is clear that women are more emotional than men, and with this in mind, women are more prone to emotional-based thought process, which is the contrary to men (logical-based). On this, women are more prone to wanting company (you see it in extraversion vs introversion in male/female ratios) - introverted types are vastly male dominated.

Yes at the end of the day due to societal’s conditioning you got some spineless dudes who would do anything for attention

But at the end of the day, you can’t fight biology

GunBullety · 2020-07-18T18:46:35+00:00

I dunno, I feel like there is definitely truth in it.

My whole teenage years were girls basically putting their sex behind the "pay wall" of a relationship. They would say it straight that they'll only have sex if I make them my girlfriend, either say it to my face or have their best friend tell me how it is. I was too pure to just be like "yeah... ok, you're my girlfriend *barely concealed snickering*", which is what a lot of guys around me would do to get laid.

The girls who "slipped up" and had sex without a relationship were frankly lower quality, they wanted a relationship too but seemed to accept it was an unreasonable request. I really felt like my "boyfriendhood" was of value, but my sex not at all. Not sure why as I had nothing to offer in a relationship as a teenager, obviously. My firm teen body should logically have been of more value, but it wasn't.

In adulthood its probably more marriage specifically. Women want to be married and have a wedding, and guys don't give a shit. I don't think there's any denying that. Guys basically yield to pressure to marry, just so they can keep their favorite sex vessel content.

These days women seem to give up sex a lot more readily than they used to, I mean a lot of the shame and pressure to be virtuous seems to have evaporated. They're still fussy, but I feel like they used to not fuck even when they wanted to, which I don't think is much of a thing any more. So there's probably less of a stark line between relationships and sex. If a girl is willing to be in a relationship with a guy in 2020 she's probably willing to smash without the relationship. But yeah I think it definitely used to be a case that guys were fussy with relationships while girls were fussy with sex.

the_calibre_cat · 2020-07-18T19:21:55+00:00

No way. I think women control way the fuck more, because they control access to sex and reproduction. Good luck getting the femmies to admit that that's privilege, though.

TheGirlGetter9000 · 2020-07-18T18:03:52+00:00

Men gatekeep relationships among women who will fuck them. Thing is, girls still often choose to leave once the gate is open. And they aren’t forced to enter every open gate.

Think about it like this. Ugly women can still gatekeep sex from an attractive man. But that man is likely to have an open gate, and not likely to “enter her gate.” Even if he does enter the gate, it’s likely he won’t enter it again. She was still the gatekeeper—he just has free will too, and other, better gatekeepers will open their gates too.

2020-07-18T20:22:20+00:00

It goes like this:

The top X% of male physical aesthetics - the actual % varies depending on who you ask. Some say 20, others say 30. But these are the men who all the straight women want and these guys can pick and choose who to sleep with/date. As such, they're the top branch of gatekeeping.
All women - this one should be obvious. All wornen have some options in terms of sex and relationships. No, not all of them will be able to get the men in #1, but there will be someone who wants them.
Rest of the men - slim pickings if any in here.

Shadow_Of_ · 2020-07-18T20:27:11+00:00

Ehh kinda. Alot of women recieve miney and recources from men without actually having sex with them.

wtknight · 2020-07-18T20:39:37+00:00

Men who are of high enough value compared to the woman who they are having sex with are the gatekeepers of relationships. If a woman is having sex with a guy regularly and is not thinking of branch swinging to someone better, then she wants a relationship with him. That's how a man becomes the gatekeeper of a relationship. Some man who is desperately trying to have sex with a woman, finally has it with her, and then the woman isn't satisfied with the sex and realizes that she can do better is not going to be the gatekeeper of a relationship.

virgin_lover · 2020-07-18T20:56:25+00:00

Well I've been rejected for serious relationships (like marriage) usually because the guy doesn't think he's as experienced as me and wants to explore himself more. It's one of the problems of being a woman who dates younger & less experienced guys.

SplushkaMcOwlFace · 2020-07-18T23:41:51+00:00

If both man and woman are equally attractive and the woman is not too stupid to give benefits of girlfriend she will be a gatekeeper to everything.

Infammo · 2020-07-18T18:18:44+00:00

There's two reasons.

One, women are way less into casual hookups and FWB relationships than men. The mere fact that a woman is entering into any kind of extended semi-relationship with a man means that she probably desires commitment and longevity from that relationship. The reverse is not inherently true for men, as entering into a relationship with a woman does not mean he wants it to become committed and serious. The only thing you know for certain is that he at least wants to bone her. That imbalance of initial goals creates the common dynamic in male/female pairings of the women wanting more and the men wanting to keep things non-comittal.

The second is the relative ratio of interested and adequately attractive parties. A lot of people looking at the entirety of men and women think that women hold the relationship/commitment card because there's massive amounts of thirsty dudes pouring unrequited affection on women. But the truth is, those dudes are not part of the equation because none of those women would ever consider dating them. As women here frequently point out, interest from low quality men is worthless. "More options" doesn't give you an edge if most of those options suck.

If you look at the number of actually eligible people in the dating pool you get a lot of average and above women and a much smaller pool of higher value men. The male sex drive gives woman a vast selection of sexual partners, but the relative worthlessness (to women) of so many modern men gives higher value men a better selection of romantic partners. Men, as a whole, are not the gatekeepers of relationships and commitment. But the percentage of men who successfully date are.

saint-jezebel · 2020-07-18T18:47:46+00:00

Women are the gatekeepers AND dungeon masters of sex and relationships. If they weren’t, [beta and substandard] men wouldn’t be so pressed to have one or trying figure out how to get one or be upset when they can’t get one or crying when they are blaming better looking men for having all of the luck.

MassiveMD · 2020-07-18T18:03:52+00:00

Then why do women cry so much about not getting commitment? :))))))))

OXOzymandias · 2020-07-18T18:04:31+00:00

I guess, in the world were getting in a woman pantie is not that hard, to give her what she want, meaning a relationship, is just up to the guy.

Imagine you have a girl, you seduced her and all, you go to the point on having sex, she has the tingles, she is hooked, you the one who kinda now decide if there will be a relationship or not....

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-07-18T18:48:27+00:00

Men typically seek out sex more so that means that women are the suppliers of sex. Women typically seek out relationships more so that means that men are the suppliers of relationships. Simple.

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natec96 · 2020-07-18T18:19:34+00:00

Men tend to view sex and women tend to view relationships. It’s the only balance in it

Joey_Lopez · 2020-07-18T19:21:29+00:00

I think it's because women tend to want relationships while men mostly want sex. Not to mention that women want things like fancy dinners and other $$ things. So it's up to men if we want to invest in that.

phlegmdawg · 2020-07-18T20:23:16+00:00

There’s only gatekeeping if you approach relationships with an unhealthy and uneven mindset. Otherwise it’s two people making a conscious decision to prioritize each other.

ARFARFMF · 2020-07-18T20:31:58+00:00

If a guy lacks frame he won't be a gatekeeper for anything.

Starter91 · 2020-07-18T20:43:24+00:00

rubbooyuri · 2020-07-18T21:04:54+00:00

If you operate like the other party is an unchanging monolith, instead of a case by case scenario, you will misinterpret things, miss opportunities, and offend others with your assumptions. Have fun!

dylang92 · 2020-07-19T00:00:50+00:00

I think men can get LTRs easier, but that’s really only compared to their ability to get casual sex. They also can get LTRs easier than women might because men can go up and down on the RMV ladder despite physical inadequacies where women can’t do that (if she isn’t attractive to the man in question, it ain’t gonna happen no matter what she does). But still women can probably find a bf with relative ease, it just wont be Chad so some won’t even bother. Your average joe on the other hand has little to no options.

YveisGrey · 2020-07-19T00:09:33+00:00

I agree for one you have to be willing to have sex to even be in a relationship so the gate keeper of sex is ergo the gatekeeper of a relationship

Sigma1979 · 2020-07-19T00:35:26+00:00

Yes, men are the gatekeepers of relationships. Considering how many men are dropping out of dating and marriage, it's a simple supply and demand issue.

12112019 · 2020-07-19T02:12:20+00:00

They actually meant that men who women desire are the gatekeepers of relationships.

RottingAway90 · 2020-07-19T02:25:24+00:00

For me men are the gatekeepers of both lol

Grave_Heresy · 2020-07-19T02:39:26+00:00

It comes from the fact that men are expected to initiate relationships. Boys asks girls to be their girlfriends, men ask women to be their wives.

A woman will date a guy for a decade and be angry that he hasn't proposed yet. But will never ask him to marry her in that time.

The other issue is that relationships are very costly to males reproductive fitness. So they naturally are far less willing to enter into one. Basically, the gatekeeper in any scenario is whomever the act has the potential to be more costly for.

This is even the case in things like sales. For example, the customer NOT the salesperson is the gatekeeper since the purchase is more costly for the customer.

Brae_Andrews · 2020-07-19T03:43:26+00:00

All men that pursue a woman have the power of initiating a relationship! That are the set a keys right there! Now, if a woman tries to initiate a relation ship.. .RUN! The guy will certainly be unhappy about that!...

GGMcThroway · 2020-07-19T04:27:12+00:00

There's still glory in a man making a woman believe he genuinely likes her only to then pump-n-dump instead. Men lie and say whatever they have to to get a woman in bed. Women don't.

Men are the gatekeepers of relationships because while women are the ones who say if there's a relationship at all, men determine what that relationship is.

shedragoness · 2020-07-19T05:10:54+00:00

I was the gatekeeper to commitment in my latest relationship.

He was the one who assumed exclusivity when none has been established. I never made the assumption exclusivity has been established and was talking to other people (but nothing beyond just talking). I was the one who moved forward with becoming exclusive to him.

The notion that ONLY men are the gatekeepers of commitment is erroneous.

Fast forward fifteen months later...and we were married. We made the mutual decision to do so: there was no formal proposal from either end.

YveisGrey · 2020-07-19T05:33:22+00:00

I think this is why men are so confused by female behavior. They actually think women want commitment when that’s simply a projection of what they want. As women we actually want money. We want you to take care of us and our kids. We want you to protect us and be stronger than other men. So many men are confused why a woman would choose an attractive f boy over a “nice guy” who wants to commit because they seriously just don’t get it. Your commitment doesn’t mean much if you 1. aren’t attractive and 2. Don’t have money. What does a woman get out of committing to a man like that anyways? It’s simply not our nature to choose men just because they commit to us. Sure its nice to be in a stable relationship...with someone who has money and or is sexually attractive so again stop thinking commitment is the end all be all and you won’t be confused about women’s behavior.

GennyX · 2020-07-19T07:30:42+00:00

No, they aren’t.

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2020-07-20T04:38:39+00:00

Top men are the gatekeepers of everything.

Women are not the "gatekeepers", it's more like they have a spades card. Great card, but you need to know how to play it...

Becouse they are playing against men that have all the chips.

That's what women call "Patriarchy", after all. Male dominance.

Though interactions between men and women are complex and alternate the power imbalance along with the kind of relationships they have. Marriage is endgame for most men, even most men at the top of the food chain hahaha.

sleightofhec · 2020-07-21T06:21:13+00:00

I agree that men are the gatekeepers of relationships because they are often less willing to commit compared to woman. Furthermore keep in mind the biggest commitment of relationships is what? Marriage . When it comes to heterosexual relationships the person who almost always gets on their knee is the man. Lastly vast majority of woman will not ask the man to marry them they will wait for him to ask.

HatezWomenzCuzIncelz · 2020-07-24T18:42:34+00:00

Because after women hit the wall they have very little value and an outrageous cost. At this point, a man would be the gatekeeper to any interaction.

sparklingscott · 2020-07-18T18:35:53+00:00

Yes. Relationships come after sex. Once sex is given, men have the power. A woman that tells a man she fucks that she doesn't want a relationship is like telling him that he got a free pump and dump. Women are also far more relationship seeking than men.

HumanSockPuppet · 2020-07-18T18:54:31+00:00

Yes. RP has tested this and found it to be the case.

tropicsGold · 2020-07-18T19:44:04+00:00

I heard an interesting comment on this: men control the competitive landscape (jobs and other metrics of success) and that women just select men who are successful according to these male-set standards. Therefore men control who women select.

YasuotheChosenOne · 2020-07-18T21:13:50+00:00

Men are the gatekeepers of relationships because they choose the women. Women don’t choose, they just accept offers. If men made no effort to move the relationship to the next level, women would just get endlessly pumped and dumped.

InternalOperator1 · 2020-07-18T21:02:00+00:00

Dick is free, commitment's not

everyonesfixer · 2020-07-19T14:48:08+00:00

Here's a thought. All the guys complaining about only high value men getting women - how about putting some effort into becoming more attractive to women, instead of bitching and whining on reddit - "poor me, I am unemployed, have a minimum wage job, I don't look after my health, and no woman wants me"

Put as much effort into yourself as you do self-pitying.

Whisper · 2020-07-21T01:44:42+00:00

Where did this idea that men are the gatekeepers of relationships come from

Hi.

and do you think it's true?

Yeah.

The question is not how easy or hard it is, it's who decides.

Title	Are men really the gatekeepers of relationships?
Author	OldSimpsonsisbetter
Upvotes	80
Comments	190
Date	July 18, 2020 5:59 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/htkz4e/are_men_really_the_gatekeepers_of_relationships/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-men-really-the-gatekeepers-of-relationships.717276 https://theredarchive.com/post/717276

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