My sister just brought up the “Women can say they hate men, but men cannot say they hate women. It is objectively different” argument.

Huitzil37 · 2022-02-15T01:03:40+00:00

Her whole argument is based on the intent behind the person saying it, while also ignoring the intent behind the person saying it.

SamaelET · 2022-02-15T01:23:51+00:00

Just tell her 'no'. She is not using argument so why should you ?

Or just say that when men say it, they are fighting against all the women who sexually and domestically abuse men and boys and get away with it. If she can make up things, you too can.

Flat_Eric_1200 · 2022-02-15T00:19:02+00:00

Your sister is sexist. 😸

redlemac17 · 2022-02-15T01:10:39+00:00

I think saying you hate all men or saying you hate all women is arseholey. The only reason I can think of for saying you hate all men/women is if you’ve been pissed off by one person of that gender and feel like you then need to categorise the rest of the gender as being shit. By all means criticise the individual but not the gender.

DirtyPartyMan · 2022-02-15T02:01:16+00:00

Misandry = good. Misogyny = bad. Got it

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-02-15T03:13:54+00:00

High value men don’t date women who say they hate men.

Invictilus · 2022-02-15T00:09:59+00:00

Feminism is based on equality. So if you call me, a man, an asshole, then as your equal I can call you, a woman an asshole.

Unfortunately this wave of feminism has a large base of entitled princesses who don't want to be traditional women but have the chivalry delivered to them as if they were.

Doesn't work like that chief.

MaxTheCatigator · 2022-02-15T02:01:19+00:00

It's good old double standards and hypocrisy. Doesn't matter if she claims to invoke feminism.

In fact Critical Theory (CT), which 3rd wave feminism is based on, postulates class warfare (men oppressing women and all other minorities including black folk, and victimising them), just between differnt groups than Marx wrote. By definition a victim always has the moral higher ground, that's why there's no way, in her feminist thinking, for her to do any wrong against you man, it's simply not part of her thought-universe.

TLDR:

If she were indeed suppressed by them evel men, there's no way she would get to argue. You'd simply shut her up by using your superior strength aka beat her into silence.

63daddy · 2022-02-15T03:07:27+00:00

Well, we don’t live in a patriarchy, so argument fails right there.

People who advocate discrimination or have double standards always justify it in their minds.

Shadowdragon409 · 2022-02-15T03:05:22+00:00

Tell her you're fighting against the matriarchy

Aggravating_Cycle_21 · 2022-02-15T03:47:51+00:00

Just say that when men do it, it's fighting the matriarchy.

Checkmate.

SkullAngel001 · 2022-02-15T04:21:08+00:00

Tell your sister "Right because incessantly declaring that you hate men is totally moving the needle towards gender equality".

Express-Wallaby-1452 · 2022-02-15T01:07:33+00:00

I’m a girl and I’ve heard this more times than I wish. I’m openly feminist and also masculist, there is no reasonable argument. Some men are terrible and some women are terrible and everyone has the right to hate a person. But only if they have a valid reason. I’m not fully sure how to make these type of girls see the other side of the story but one day they will. I think you have to experience it and have a higher intelligence to understand this.

PaulfussKrile · 2022-02-15T02:52:58+00:00

It is objectively different, because one is played off as a joke, and the other is rightfully condemned. In all seriousness, though, you should really start spending less time with your sister if that’s how she really feels. She’s entitled to her own opinion, but she’s not entitled to your time.

Ghironsing · 2022-02-15T02:53:14+00:00

You can’t argue with stupid. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

My advice? Let her spout her nonsense. It will serve as a red flag keep away the good guys. She’s only damaging herself and her prospects. It’s got nothing to do with you. If you try and lovingly correct her it will only put you in the crosshairs. I’ve learned to let dumb people be dumb. Let them suffer their stupidity. When they have suffered enough, they will seek truth. Then, is the time to offer it.

Xclusivecrushr · 2022-02-15T06:03:19+00:00

my sister says that " when we say that all men want to rape us women , we know that not all men want to do but we do it for covenience so we women can do this but you men cant say " all feminists are radical "(90% nowadays are in my experience) because you cant define a movement becuase of some bad apples." she never listens to me saying that then why are you defining a fucking gender just by some bad examples? are you fucking stupid?

tenchineuro · 2022-02-15T00:17:59+00:00

Her reasoning that when women do it, they are fighting against the patriarchy. When men do it, they are just being assholes. How could I counteract these arguments?

Sorry, but your sister is a feminist, any attempts at reason are bound to fail.

tenchineuro · 2022-02-15T00:09:19+00:00

[permanently deleted]

WingsofSky · 2022-02-15T01:28:49+00:00

Bigots be bigots. Truer words have never been said.

Emanon-L · 2022-02-15T08:04:16+00:00

Your sister's whole argument: "Because I am a woman, whatever I say about men is true."

goodmod · 2022-02-15T03:01:36+00:00

If women can say they hate men without being punished for it, then they are not oppressed.

blrfn231 · 2022-02-15T00:58:28+00:00

Patriarchy doesn’t exist. (There is to some extent a rule of a few hyper wealthy over the rest of the world but this is different from a male dominance over woman because the dominance asserted by these few is also asserted over men not only woman - it is once more a sign that many woman grew up with a cherry picking princess attitude ignoring science and facts to get what they want and them doing so is socially accepted - preposterous as that may be. Where’s the fairness and equality there?)

Check Jordan Peterson on this. There couldn’t be a more down to earth and more human and scientific explanation. And even the extremist feminists are silenced by him regularly on this matter.

https://youtube.com/shorts/QkXUzAyOvxU?feature=share

Saltydawg1064 · 2022-02-15T01:46:12+00:00

laugh in her face and walk away

slver6 · 2022-02-15T07:38:37+00:00

tell her real life is not internet and even if people applaud her for saying that ON SOCIAL MEDIA, she will be a Misandry racist piece of shit

also, if she thinks fighting against the patriarchy, is to hate men, she needs to start taking that seriously, hate you, her father and every men around her, but most important STOP DEPENDING ON MEN to acomplish anything

rabel111 · 2022-02-15T02:29:57+00:00

Modern feminism has framed gender relations as a war between men and women. Your sister is a grunt in that war. That's a feminist who has limited understanding of what she says and believes, but will fight unconditionally for sake of supporting her side. It's not about logic or argument for grunts, it's about winning at any cost.

Rachel794 · 2022-02-15T02:29:04+00:00

She’s insane. When you’re so salty against the patriarchy, all logical reasoning is completely lost.

Smokey9000 · 2022-02-15T02:34:36+00:00

This is why i just say "i hate people"

Yesyesnaaooo · 2022-02-15T05:34:05+00:00

There is a tactic called 'fogging' - just ask her what she means?

Say you don't understand what it means to say 'Hate men'?

vikarti_anatra · 2022-02-15T05:46:47+00:00

One possible option:

Can she answer and explain her answer one simple question: Can transgender hate 'opposite' gender in such situation? Does direction of gender transition and is it pre-op or post-op). After that.

binkerfluid · 2022-02-15T06:00:33+00:00

Nothing you say will change her mind, she is clearly sexist but believes in an ideology that says she cannot be. How can you fight that with reason?

needalife94 · 2022-02-15T07:06:39+00:00

No , no it's not. If women can say it then so can men. She is just sexist.

Current-Sky · 2022-02-15T07:07:06+00:00

Tell her that if she wants to be treated as an equal she needs to act like one, i have never had a bad experience with anyone who doesn't lower themselves into petty, circular arguments as well as not infringing of anyone freedom of speech. No one will ever benefit from telling another that their opinion, argument or point doesn't matter.

Ask her if the problem is with a "system" or is it with people not conducting themselves in a respectful way. And then ask her which side she thinks she falls on, in regards to how she has conducted herself in previous conversations and arguments.

Self reflection is the way to go, figure out where you are lacking and try to improve. Hope this helped.

Ok_Individual · 2022-02-15T07:07:28+00:00

If women have the same agency as men they should be held to the same standards. Your sisters argument only works with people who are not fully responsible for their actions like children or special needs people. She is an adult and she as an individual should he held to the same standard that a man should be if she wants to be truly equal.

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2022-02-15T00:10:22+00:00

Tell her that "The Patriarchy" is a theory used by feminists to explain why women didn't work as much in the past as they do now. There is no Patriarchy without feminism.

AnOldSchoolVGNerd · 2022-02-15T07:10:35+00:00

I've gotta ask OP, is she young and in college?

The nuttiness comes from college campuses at an alarming rate.

matrixislife · 2022-02-15T07:54:26+00:00

Patriarchy is like the magic word when you were playing tag as a kid.
"you can't tag me now, I said WERTY" "I'm not sexist, cos of patriarchy"

It has a very similar feel to it, there's no logic behind it, it's just what you say to prevent your own argument being applied right back to you.

Anih1list · 2022-02-15T08:01:33+00:00

Patriarchy and men are two different things. It's like trying to get rid of systemic racism by saying "cracker" a bunch of times.

heyyy-kiddo · 2022-02-15T08:10:44+00:00

Just add in that she's an asshole too.

Also they can't fight imaginary stuff like "the patriarchy ^ TM ".....

Now everything makes sense xD

2022-02-15T08:30:14+00:00

You should take her to psychiatric hospital

Jay-Ames · 2022-02-15T09:16:33+00:00

Don't. She will feel this way and what she feels is true. Your logic will not help. Instead reverse that whole shit on her. Stop making sense.

Say something she can feel. Tell her that you are disappointed that she hates you. Or hates her son (If she has one). She will say "but i mean patriarchy". Just keep being disappointed untill she changes her story.

gre2704 · 2022-02-15T09:22:30+00:00

In cases like that I always only answer with "Thanks for admitting that feminism is a hate movement"

Volcanic-Penguin · 2022-02-15T09:55:42+00:00

Tell her the world is a matriarchy, female voters outnumber male voters. If she brings up the wage gap tell her men work more and make more money but women spend more money, it's a privilege to spend money you didn't make. Tell her to check her privilege.

ReaperManX15 · 2022-02-15T11:05:36+00:00

Tell her to preface every use of the word “men” with the word “black” and ask her if her arguments still sound good.

princelydeeds · 2022-02-15T13:10:59+00:00

When anyone makes any statements about a patriarchy, you can just stop right there everything else they say is already based in stupid...

nevermock · 2022-02-15T00:21:51+00:00

Dysfunctional families are a thing.

CrunchyNutFruit · 2022-02-15T01:45:35+00:00

Aww bless her heart. I hope she doesn't die alone.

ubermidget1 · 2022-02-15T02:12:01+00:00

My go-to is; men aren't the patriarchy. Patriarchy (as per Feminist definition) is a system giving power and responisbility to men. It is not men itself. Patriarchy can be committed by anyone to anyone.

STARSTRUCK888 · 2022-02-15T02:33:49+00:00

Hypocrisy at a highest disorder.

Brokepapa321 · 2022-02-15T03:04:16+00:00

When men do it they are being assholes...When women do it THEY are being assholes. You can't counteract an asinine argument.

Your sister is special...like "don't drool on the furniture" special.

kanniget · 2022-02-15T03:30:56+00:00

Ask her to explain how "hate all men" is fighting the patriarchy, as system that has developed with a male focus but also supported by many women in their attitudes towards other women.

If she asks for proof of this, then ask her to define the patriarchy in a way that can 1, prove it exists as a collegiate idea that is agreed upon as an I tended out come and 2, that no women have supported it.

Once she does this you can then start to focus on how hating all members of a group helps to pull down another group that the hated group does not necessarily belong to.

Yes, in traditional society pre women's liberation it was easier for a man to get by than a woman if you ignore the social support structures like alimony etc. And most men agree this was wrong and have worked to amend it.

Are there men who hate this, yes.

Was it due to all men getting together and deciding this, no. But the change away from that certainly was due to men as a group staying enough.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2022-02-15T06:45:50+00:00

Even if we granted the Patriarchy^TM existed as advertised, it isn't men as a group.

Similarly, even if women had no complicity in shaping society into such a Patriarchy, that doesn't obviate them of any hateful actions either as individuals or as a group.

Her first justification relies on the fallacy by composition. Her second arguments relies on the affirming the consequent fallacy.

It's just bad logic all around.

RetrogradeIntellekt · 2022-02-15T08:14:00+00:00

First, start by acknowledging the truth that men who say they hate women and mean it are indeed assholes.

Second, ask her what other kinds of things are acceptable for women to do in the name of fighting the patriarchy. Can women steal from men in the name of fighting the patriarchy? Can they harass men in the name of fighting the patriarchy? Can they spread lies about a man and ruin his reputation in the name of fighting the patriarchy? Can a woman fire a man for no reason and put a woman in his place? Can a woman punch, kick, or kill a man for no reason in the name of fighting against the patriarchy?

If women shouldn't be allowed to do any of these things, then 'fighting the patriarchy' is just an excuse for hating men.

He_who_bobs_beneath · 2022-02-15T08:23:48+00:00

I hate your sister :)

MrUncannyIncredible · 2022-02-15T10:33:38+00:00

This is literally the same thing as "black people can't be racist"

JablesRadio · 2022-02-15T12:24:43+00:00

You can't. Itll go in one ear and out the other.

DutchOnionKnight · 2022-02-15T13:19:31+00:00

People like your sister can't even explain what the patriarchy, toxic manipulation etc exactly is.

hottake_toothache · 2022-02-15T13:40:41+00:00

Very likely, you will not be able to change her mind. She has other women telling her this stuff, and it is more pleasant for her to believe than if she had to regard men as human beings.

bwulfhorst84 · 2022-02-15T17:33:11+00:00

The best strategy always with women especially in these type of situations is to not engage. They are looking for a reaction, they are looking for attention. Don’t give it to them. The most aggravating thing you can do to a woman is ignore her.

doggosrbabies · 2022-02-15T17:33:24+00:00

say "if it sounds bad when you invert the genders then it's sexist

Choe_Ryong_Hae · 2022-02-15T21:28:25+00:00

I struggle to understand how all men are at fault for "the patriarchy." I can't think of many instances where a qualitative blanket statement about 3.5 billion people is ever accurate.

I think people should generally not hate other people regardless of their identities and show mutual respect.

Deckardisdead · 2022-02-15T01:17:46+00:00

tell her to get a job building a house or bridge and then lets talk equality.

starwarsgeek1985 · 2022-02-15T08:51:25+00:00

“The patriarchy” is one the biggest piles of horse shit in the entirety of modern social politics. Its just an excuse feminists use to justify their blatant sexism towards men. They scream “Stop the hate” unless it’s towards straight white men

Adventurous_Health93 · 2022-02-15T01:33:59+00:00

No matter the reasoning behind either, it's still bigoted.

JoeSmith1907 · 2022-02-15T01:33:07+00:00

You can tell her men don't hate women. Men love women. We put up with their moods.

skolopendron · 2022-02-15T02:10:43+00:00

There is nothing to counteract, she is wrong. Her logic is the same as that of black people claiming that they can not be racist, because they are black. It's simple fallacy. Read the essays of Arthur Schopenhauer: The Art of Controversy. It might give you some insight into dirty tricks people use in day to day arguments. It's a short book but pack with essential knowledge.

yIsSaT · 2022-02-15T05:34:04+00:00

Men have to fight against patriarchy everyday. Other guys force their manliness on us and for showing one sign of weakness, we are no longer considered humans.

DaLordOfDarkness · 2022-02-15T01:48:38+00:00

What your sister said doesn’t even sound like an argument, and it seems she believes it’s completely allowed because they are completely different topic even though they are the same.

Alex_from_far_away · 2022-02-15T01:48:40+00:00

I would say that when the only way to "stay on top" and feel strong is through hating another group and making it unacceptable to fight back, that's not power, that's an ideology of cowards. She clearly mistook feminazism for feminism

Memes_The_Warbeast · 2022-02-15T02:13:51+00:00

Ask her how it's objectively different. Make her demonstrate the crux of her argument.

International_Risk82 · 2022-02-15T02:22:31+00:00

Fighting a system isn't the same as being sexist. The same logical fallacy was applied during WW2 when dumb people would label every german they saw as a nazi. She can hate the patriarchy all she wants but the men around her, who didn't create said patriarchy, are innocent.

maskednil · 2022-02-15T02:23:37+00:00

She's not arguing so why counteract? Just mock and insult her, don't help her, say she's strong and independent, and all that jazz.

iainmf · 2022-02-15T02:26:28+00:00

My argument against her point of view:

In a non-patriarchal society, both would be wrong.

We cannot become a non-patriarchal society by continuing to act like we are in a patriarchal society.

Therefore, being okay with misandry and not misogyny is supporting patriarchal society.

carpeCactus · 2022-02-15T02:48:00+00:00

Ask her to define the patriarchy and how it has tangibly hurt or oppressed women? And offer true stats that under said patriarchy, men die in war more, go to jail more, lose custodial rights to their kiddos more, lose rights to their paychecks, become homeless more, pay more in taxes…etc. sounds more like entitlement than anything else.

6lackTrey · 2022-02-15T02:48:44+00:00

I don’t have these conversations with women no matter who they are!! And if she’s that indoctrinated you lost her bro!! Hopefully she turns it around that rhetoric is the path to destruction

Juice_Concentrate · 2022-02-15T03:06:58+00:00

Saying either one is an ignorant, bigoted generalization.

More likely the intent is something along the lines of, "I hate it when [gender] does X".

This is a far more pointed and reasonable way to state such an opinion.

Saying you hate men or you hate women is rather pointless by comparison; it conveys nothing, solves no problem, and only serves to reveal you for exactly what you are: a fool.

In conclusion, there is no way to argue against either statement, and that's by design. Nor should you try, because they're both meaningless statements.

ABeeBox · 2022-02-15T03:30:58+00:00

Ask her what part of the system is patriarchal. Do we not have female leaders? CEOs? Mayors? Entrepreneurs? Ask her who is the poorest gender? What patriarchy would allow the suffering of patriarchs.

lostcymbrogi · 2022-02-15T04:09:40+00:00

Sexist always find ways to justify their sexism. Does it really surprise you that she is finding a way to justify hers?

lasciate · 2022-02-15T04:12:03+00:00

Her reasoning that when women do it, they are fighting against the patriarchy.

Say "just so we're clear, hate is the way forward?"

wanthonio31 · 2022-02-15T05:30:49+00:00

So is she a feminist for 'equality'? If so, wouldn't it be the same thing of either gender is being bigoted towards another? Why is she trying to make an exception here? Sounds like textbook sexism.

(And there are many arguments against patriarchy that I've seen in various places. But I'll just say this In my opinion, this is a dumb argument (the one your sister's making), because there is none. it's bad when both do it)

Mycroft033 · 2022-02-15T05:30:52+00:00

You might talk to her about the empathy gap

KenTanRandomYT · 2022-02-15T05:34:04+00:00

There was a post in this sub that could answer this patriarchy bullshit i saw a few days ago, it's this one

r2o_abile · 2022-02-15T05:39:00+00:00

Tell her she's stupid and move on. Good luck to her.

Onegodoneloveoneway · 2022-02-15T06:01:37+00:00

I think the problem here is an understanding of the word 'objectively'.

objectively

in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

Casanova_Kid · 2022-02-15T06:05:47+00:00

Sure, she's fighting the patriarchy. You're fighting for equality. Simple as that.

AdityaGutpa · 2022-02-15T06:20:15+00:00

I mean you could bring up facts, evidence logic, granted it wont do anything. If you press to hard with the logic, she'll say this is why we need feminists. This is quite common. Anyways, she probably learnt this in a feminist echo chamber telling her that abusing men is a good thing.

afrofrycook · 2022-02-15T06:22:16+00:00

Just tell her that replace men with jews and she'd sound a lot like Hitler.

pargofan · 2022-02-15T06:22:41+00:00

Patriarchy, assholes. They're just words. Throw it right back. When men do it, they're fighting the matriarchy. When women do it, they're just bitches.

MancunianMuffin · 2022-02-15T06:38:35+00:00

Very much sounds like a patriarchal society when you can make up such BS an get away with it

RenegadeJedi · 2022-02-15T07:03:08+00:00

Can't argue with that logic

MarsRisen · 2022-02-15T07:18:24+00:00

Your sister is a bloody idiot. Just kindly remind her of that fact daily.

Iceman_Hottie · 2022-02-15T07:22:11+00:00

Get her to admit that those who throw tantrums has lost the argument. Then ask her to prove that it exists, when it contradicts human biology. Namely that men have a neurological response to women showing socially significant emotions, which is mutually exclusive with patriarchy.

I can add some links to papers with data.

graffitol · 2022-02-15T10:31:08+00:00

I suppose you could say that the patriarchy negatively affects men too. Males being drafted to fight in wars is an example. So that her hate is for a system not a biological gender and therefore shouldn’t hate men.

She might say that men created the patriarchy. In reply you could say that those were primarily men of previous generations and eras. We are living in a system created by our predecessors and we are all to some extent winners and losers depending on the specifics. Another example is the treatment of fathers ( that benefit women) in courts based on the patriarchal notion that women make better parents.

Huge progress is being made by current generations to dismantle patriarchal systems that negatively affect women. To the point where we almost have equality. But we aren’t quite there because we are choosing to ignore the systems that harm men.

If a feminist is truly against the patriarchy she would want dismantle all aspects of it. If she wants to keep the aspects that benefit women then she is actually pro patriarchy but in a different form. Which would make her no better than the men and women who created it.

The best thing is for men and women to now work together to make a better world for future generations so that they won’t have to have this stupid argument.

McZachary2 · 2022-02-15T11:16:34+00:00

There’s no reasoning with brain washed fools like that.

barnagotte · 2022-02-15T11:19:32+00:00

"what about equality?"

MrMisterMN · 2022-02-15T11:33:13+00:00

Equality...

celi283 · 2022-02-15T11:39:30+00:00

That's the moment when you can legally hit women

MusicallyManiacal · 2022-02-15T11:45:35+00:00

That’s frankly idiotic, and that’s how I’d respond. This isn’t equality. That’s what I’d say first, and then I’d attempt to breakdown the fact that in the US there is not a systemic patriarchy. Doesn’t seem like your sister is ready for that though

TheFakestOfBricks · 2022-02-15T12:01:34+00:00

This seems to be a variation of the power structures argument, which is a bullshit copout SJWs and radical feminists use to excuse their own bigotry. If not then she's just an ignorant hypocrite and an asshole

liebestod0130 · 2022-02-15T12:11:43+00:00

It's hypocrisy, plain and simple. It's an excuse to avoid being criticized for being hateful, because they know what the consequences of the label "sexist" brings with it.

Electrical_Access604 · 2022-02-15T12:37:03+00:00

There's just infinitely more to social dynamics and human behaviour than "the pattriarchy". That, by the way, is not a real sociological concept, it's just a feminist rhetoric that doesn't have an especific meaning but can mean anything a feminist wants to.

Sean_dalton1987 · 2022-02-15T12:41:06+00:00

Misandry is unacceptable.

TheStumblingWolf · 2022-02-15T13:06:56+00:00

This is like when black people say they can't be racist...

I don't think any amount of logic is going to persuade her in any way. Whatever you say she'll just go "nu uh!".

RabbitFromBrazil · 2022-02-15T13:10:15+00:00

She is just looking for reasons to be an ass. It's the same thing as someone who says there is no racism against whites.

Ask her if she hates you. If she says no, tell her: "See, hating men in general makes no sense. The actions of some don't speak for all. I'm sure some men have reasons to hate some women, but that's no reason to say they hate women in general."

gnuban · 2022-02-15T13:17:17+00:00

"You're being disingenuous"

bryoneill11 · 2022-02-15T13:19:52+00:00

Lol thats is not even an argument.

sleepyJoeBidet · 2022-02-15T13:26:20+00:00

Start wearing a dress around her, and see what she does...

OctaviaPinfold · 2022-02-15T13:27:56+00:00

You can't, really. Convincing conspiracy theorists that their conspiracy theory is just that is pretty much futile without long education and their own willingness to change their minds. But most of them won't give the ideas up because they give them the belief that they know better than the people around them, they're above them, they're in on some deeper knowledge, some deeper truth than their environment, they believe they see through the lies that misdirect most others, etc. You have to go against all that, factual arguments usually don't even make a dent in that belief. Just look at anti-vaxxers, flath-Earthers or the average science deniers. They have the entire scientific community proving them wrong, in many questions even from before there was a scientific community in its modern form, for millenia now, but they don't care.

road_laya · 2022-02-15T14:13:11+00:00

Why would you discuss politics with this woman? Absolutely zero to gain.

PLEASE-INSERT-HERE · 2022-02-15T14:14:45+00:00

How the hell is it different?! What do you mean “fighting against patriarchy”? That’s not even true! Did you know that 80% of suicides are men?! 70% of homeless people are men because (why do they need help they have male privilege!) KAM (kill all men) isn’t even viewed as a terrorist group if men made a kill all women group they would all be shot or arrested in the first week!

MarcusOReallyYes · 2022-02-15T14:36:29+00:00

Remind her that gender is a construct and she needs to quit being so transphobic as there are many amazing transmen…. and you won’t stand for her bigotry.

ITriedLightningTendr · 2022-02-15T15:02:29+00:00

I wouldn't overly focus on this as a men's rights issue purely because this is a core issue on the left, at the moment.

The equivocation of Racism as "prejudice + power" has created an ideological space where anything is permissible against the oppressor group.

This extends to race, colonialism, class (eat the rich), and anything else.

For those that don't understand where to draw lines, and don't have goals at which point, when achieved, that the disbalanced dynamic is no longer applicable, end up advocating for very bad things. Not hyperbolically, they point toward genocide.

Your sister is likely more stupid than she is sexist, but it is a sexist line of argumentation.

If black people hate white people, it's racism. The difference is that if you can differentiate the oppressor dynamic and the oppressing group from individuals and not essentialize race, sex, etc, you can hate the oppressor group without being bigotted.

To wit: A man can hate the patriarchy just as much as a woman, and neither have to hate men. Hating men is essentializing sex (or gender, this is going to depend on if this brand of feminism is TERF or not), where as hating the dynamic that stands, and hating those that uphold it, is neither essentialized, nor bigoted in any fashion.

novdelta307 · 2022-02-15T15:03:27+00:00

Tell her there is no patriarchy. Enjoy the meltdown

Kaylarmagic · 2022-02-15T15:06:50+00:00

Your sister is a sexist. Replace the word men with something else... jews, replace the words men and women with black people, white people... whatever and MAYBE it she will realize she's a POS.

adminsuckdonkeydick · 2022-02-15T15:12:44+00:00

I recently looked up "patriarchy" after someone said the word on Radio 4. I was surprised to find it's actually a revival of a term feminist academics outright rejected about a decade ago. It's on'y the latest wave that has taken it up as their banner.

Pretty sad to know previous feminists waves rejected an obviously flawed concept but the latest wave picked up on it again as being the defining reason for the movement.

moarCringe · 2022-02-15T15:18:00+00:00

You don't. She is an agent for her side.

NattyGains4Life · 2022-02-15T15:32:06+00:00

Your sister is objectively stupid, I wouldn’t lose time to engage in brainless arguments

Tell her to have fun with her cats at 50

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2022-02-15T15:50:53+00:00

Challenge her to any sport to settle the dispute.

Brady_Bear · 2022-02-15T15:56:23+00:00

Treat the issue, not the gender.

Gyro1277 · 2022-02-15T16:00:20+00:00

My ex girlfriend had the same bullshit argument. It pissed me off so much

brick_bones · 2022-02-15T16:09:29+00:00

Misandry is real, hence the word existing.

movieguy2004 · 2022-02-15T16:11:54+00:00

Not very logical, but you could just tell her that you can say whatever you want. First Amendment and whatnot.

_coast_of_maine · 2022-02-15T16:48:12+00:00

Dump her

Simonenear21 · 2022-02-15T16:48:58+00:00

Both statements are idiotic

zombiemess872 · 2022-02-15T17:17:18+00:00

Her argument is based on an assumption so it falls flat.

SpanishM · 2022-02-15T17:28:38+00:00

when women do it, they are fighting against the patriarchy.

"The patriarchy" does not exist.

And anyways, what she says is not an argument, it's just an excuse.

People react to hate with more hate. So, you can tell her "we'll see how it works for you".

franska5 · 2022-02-15T18:21:07+00:00

"If you argument is based on hatred, then is not an argument, you are just being an asshole"

Chewy52 · 2022-02-15T18:31:31+00:00

There is no objectivity in her statement it's purely subjective. She may be too far gone to see it any other way tho.

Illadrex2 · 2022-02-15T18:32:58+00:00

Because women are a protected group, socially. You can only punch up in this society, and stereotypically, men are looked at as having such superior standing in society that they can't get away with saying the reverse....even though we all know it's not true for the vast majority of men.

Arguesovereverythin · 2022-02-15T18:48:10+00:00

Your sister: It's OK to hate someone only because of their gender rather than the content of their character.

Make sure she understands what she is saying. If it's not OK to be a racist, and it's not OK to be homophobic, and it's not OK to hate people because of their religion (ie anti-Semitic), then it certainly isn't OK to hate by gender or sex.

The good side of this is that you are in her life. If you can win her over, that's one less person justifying poor treatment of men in the world.

RoryTate · 2022-02-15T19:34:11+00:00

Your sister is a bigot. Even worse, she's a proud bigot.

Also, I find it funny how feminists will say language and definitions are objective fact, yet actual physical objects like chromosomes, gametes, and biology are all just subjective and open to interpretation.

Have a good, long, rueful laugh at her incredible ignorance, and move on to concerning yourself with more important things.

bfte2 · 2022-02-15T19:46:57+00:00

Your sister has said what has been Soyciety's Modus Operandi for at least 10 years now.

legend_kda · 2022-02-15T20:08:58+00:00

Tell her that there’s no such thing as a patriarchy and she’s free to fuck off and literally do anything she wants with her life without needing permission from any males.

dedepu · 2022-02-15T21:37:52+00:00

rich newyork suburb

goobershank · 2022-02-15T21:48:21+00:00

That is leftist politics in a nutshell.

Drp345 · 2022-02-15T21:59:25+00:00

I'd just use the UNO reverse card to get my point across.

"When men do it, they are fighting against the matriarchy. When women do it, they are just being bitches."

AcidKritana · 2022-02-16T00:34:15+00:00

Well, personally, I would tell her "Ok Boomer," but if you want to change her mind, then I would suggest telling her that most men are not at the top - most are at the bottom - and just because there's men at the top does NOT mean that they would fight for other men. In fact, due to sexual evolution, men would be more likely overall to fight for women rather than men, while it's a bit more even for women (protect their mates from getting taken vs protect other women). But if she's not interested in the evolution part, ask her how many men % wise are actually in the top 1%? Also, you could let her know that I, a trans man, who was born a girl has faired much worse as a guy than I ever did as a girl and people almost always (like in 99.99% of cases) assume that I'm a dude.

boringcarpets · 2022-02-16T07:51:35+00:00

No such thing as the patriarchy

Passionate_Wolf95 · 2022-02-19T00:47:00+00:00

This is why in movies, books, poems, songs, mantras, “inspirational quotes”, always say that LOVE is the answer. Lol. For real though

Title	My sister just brought up the “Women can say they hate men, but men cannot say they hate women. It is objectively different” argument.
Author	Butter-Dunno04
Upvotes	1177
Comments	246
Date	February 15, 2022 12:03 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ssozzi/my_sister_just_brought_up_the_women_can_say_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/my-sister-just-brought-up-the-women-can-say-they.1102284 https://theredarchive.com/post/1102284

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