The entire crux of every debate ever had in the pill ecosystem is rooted in the fact that women are looked down upon for having sex

-angels-fan- · 2022-07-15T19:05:46+00:00

No fucking way women are going to suddenly start fucking ugly dudes because they are no longer shamed for having sex.

novelgrowth22 · 2022-07-15T19:50:04+00:00

Then explain why more men are having less sex than ever? If what you are saying it's true then we should witness the opposite since slut shaming isn't as big as it was 20 years ago but look where we at now.

Slyfer_Seven · 2022-07-15T19:10:39+00:00

It's never been less shameful/more acceptable for women to have casual sex than it is now, but according to the doomsayers, it's never been worse for men as far as access to sex...

So how does more of this trend result in undesirable guys suddenly getting laid?

Stunning-Ad14 · 2022-07-16T00:24:28+00:00

I'm only going to be intimate with men I'm attracted to. How women are judged by people I don't have any direct contact with (nor care about the opinions of) won't change when and how often I feel attracted to a man.

wtknight · 2022-07-15T19:20:11+00:00

Cause women to give more freely of the pussy

This is not true because women would still have high standards when it comes to men. Your entire premise is faulty. Women just aren’t attracted to many men and are not constantly horny for sex with almost every man like men are with women. Female attraction cannot be consciously expanded even without shaming because, evolutionarily, women do not want to risk reproduction with men whom they deem unfit.

TesticalDefibrillate · 2022-07-15T19:13:00+00:00

Now I don't know what kind of psychological paradigm shift needs to happen

One way would be to shift toward a matriarchal/matrilineal society in which women assume much of the leadership and much less of the child-bearing responsibilities. See the Mosuo women as an example.

Sluts-Swallow · 2022-07-15T22:12:44+00:00

Women are not shamed for having lots of sex anymore, on the contrary, they are widely encouraged to do so yet the disparity of sex between verage men and attractive men has never been bigger.

If women were absolutely shame-free they'd just flock around attractive men and form harems.

poppy_blu · 2022-07-15T21:15:51+00:00

Dead horse. Western women don’t care about being called sluts by incels. If we care at all we care about the opinions of HV men we actually want to date. Who know how to vet for actual promiscuity and problematic behavior. If a HVM is marrying a ho believe me he knows what he’s getting into and has decided to roll the dice. And you can bet that if he ends up getting burned, he won’t be coming here to whine about how women and society are conspiring to trick him. He’ll chalk it up to a bad investment decision and move the fuck on like an adult.

So no. There are so social guardrails left in the west that when removed will automatically turn women into men. Not going to happen. It’s too ingrained in our biology. Women will always be more discriminating than men. Period.

There is nothing that undesirable men can do besides become more desirable or pay for sex/foreign wives. Accept and move on.

Tell me what you mean by “remove sex as a barrier to personal relationships.” Do you mean men who aren’t sexually attractive to women will find it impossible to get into relationships? That’s not going to change either. Said men would do well to stop listening to virgins online, understand female sexuality, and learn that attractiveness is something you cultivate. Again women are not and never will be men.

Lastly, incels are not incels because of their looks or because women are too picky. In this day age it’s never been easier to up your game and outshine most men in your vicinity. Incels TM problem is 100% mental. Social anxiety, risk aversion, attachment disorder, low self esteem, many with trauma from dysfunctional relationships with their mothers and other female authority figures when they were younger. And some are just lazy but incredibly entitled, believing they should have what Chad their mythical man crush has simply because they want it. And they’re men, so they deserve it of course.

toasterchild · 2022-07-15T19:38:57+00:00

Maybe you all need to stop thinking that our body parts exist as gifts to you. Maybe just start there.

sivarias · 2022-07-15T19:12:08+00:00

Men dont shame women for having sex.

Other women do.

sarkington · 2022-07-15T19:47:03+00:00

Not just shaming; we really don’t want to as much

jayval90 · 2022-07-15T20:56:03+00:00

"If only people thought like me, every bad thing would stop."

HuckleberryThis2012 · 2022-07-15T23:15:37+00:00

Women wouldn’t “spread the wealth” lol it’s more of a capitalistic structure where the rich would just get richer.

I don’t think you have proof of 3, as 2 isn’t proven accurate.

Is sex a barrier to personal relationships between the genders?

Nah no matter how open with sex women get incel types won’t be attractive to them. Also incels have a weird idea about who they should be going after. They seem to expect the hottest women there are, which would always be beyond their reach.

RinoaRita · 2022-07-16T06:06:14+00:00

If the shame/putting in sex token until a relationship falls out is out of the equation and pure lust is the driver why would women not try to get with the hottest guys then can get with?

And the hot guys would be happy to have the smorgasbord or hot enough women as variety. This assumes that without stigma and expectation of sex leading to something is wiped away.

2022-07-16T06:15:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

rhumel · 2022-07-16T12:33:01+00:00

Don’t get me wrong I’m all in for women not being shamed for having sex and I’m also in for men having their own standard on what they want on a woman, including n-count or whatever… but neither of that has to do with who people actually pick to fuck.

Men will still fuck women who have high n-count but they won’t take them “seriously” no matter the shaming and women will still only fuck men who they find attractive, they won’t suddenly fuck an incel because there’s no shame on it.

The no shaming is really aimed to solve one thing: men will be more receptive to long time relationships with women who have high n-counts, so it’s a solution specifically targeted to women who want to fuck a lot of men (still only who they find really attractive, off course) but remain to be seen as worthy of a ltr by a guy who has standards and potentially is “a good catch” (which happens to usually be the guy who doesn’t want a woman who had 6 boyfriends and who knows how much lovers at her late 20s).

2022-07-19T03:55:27+00:00

It’s the easiest in history to ever get laid. You got twice as many female ancestors as male because historically most men died virgins or had maybe 1 wife.

These pill idiots are complaining now but if they were sent back even 100 years they would die alone like most other poor men who didn’t want to improve did in the past.

CursedLemon · 2022-07-15T20:24:18+00:00

Absolutely every single thing you said is preposterous on it's face.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-07-15T21:05:21+00:00

The only thing more sexual freedom does is create more soft harems and exacerbates the hypergamy gap. Promiscuous women are not fucking LVM with shaming or without shaming.

RobDog101 · 2022-07-15T22:51:58+00:00

This is exactly the opposite of the case. Female promiscuity is strongly linked to chances of divorce (usually initiated by women). Women are supposed to pair bond, because sex is naturally more risky for them, so it requires more trust, and because they need the protection of a mate. Casual sex destroys their ability to form a connection with their mates.

Also hookup culture has led directly to the problem of the modern “incel”, because chastity (mislabeled as celibacy) is now seen as abnormal, whether voluntary or not, worsening virgin shaming, which primarily women engage in. In fact women are the primary enforcers of sex-based shaming in general.

Enforced monogamy was invented precisely to reduce competition over women and maximize the number of men who get pussy. This was also a benefit of taboos against selecting mates outside one’s social class since that limits opportunities for hypergamy, meaning women in lower socioeconomic strata had to treat their male peers as actual human beings in order to not be alone.

When women get unlimited sexual choice, you get a hyena society. They effectively cull the male population, which might work and allow the species to be successful if, like hyena males, men were weaker and less socially dominant than women, and if you’re shooting for a very low standard of societal success. But any human society that fails to exercise any control over its women’s reproduction will ultimately be at a disadvantage.

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Marzipan-Happy · 2022-07-15T20:03:38+00:00

It feels like that, and there is a huge double standard there.

y2kjanelle · 2022-07-15T21:57:14+00:00

Now this is an interesting take but like you said, is virtually impossible at this point in time. Purity culture is still significantly prominent in all cultures across the entire world and it will be extremely hard to dismantle. But with education, access to resources, and acceptance that people have different lifestyles, we can slowly change perspectives and at least, allow people who are engaging in any type of sexual life style to be safe and healthy.

lovestocomment · 2022-07-15T23:05:59+00:00

From a man's point of view, women are born with value. Men have to create their value. Women want the best quality man they can get.

So, as far as I'm concerned. Men should earn their way and better themselves. Part of that requires actually approaching women and interact with them. Sure 98% ok f the time rejection will take place. But each in person rejected allows for that guy to learn a lesson and adjust. While doing that men should work on themselves. Be fit, be clean, be respectful and be fiscally responsible. Being focused allows for great results.

My hope is that women will see those men who put in the work who have good character. Those guy who might not be the best looking or be most famous or have the most money. But have a lot to offer.

hsvgamer199 · 2022-07-16T00:15:25+00:00

Bonobo chimps supposedly bang their conflicts away. Maybe they're onto something.

ruboyuri · 2022-07-16T00:55:54+00:00

Even if you did all that, we still wouldn’t want to fuck as much as men, nor would we want to share men

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-07-16T01:40:08+00:00

It’s not the slut shaming that stops women.

It’s cuz the vagina is a birth canal and the dick doesn’t do a lot for the vagina. Which in turn prob had women invent slut shaming since they couldn’t get off from missionary back in the day.

If the clit was inside the vagina, you think there would even be any sort of shaming women would give a shit about? 😂😂It’s the same like men don’t care about slut shaming cuz they want their dick to feel good.

For most women PIV doesn’t make them orgasm.

If women do orgasm from PIV it’s cuz the clit is being touched, not that the dick is doing anything to the vagina….for all vaginas that are not turned on enough, it feels like pressure.

Slut shaming wouldn’t stand a chance if the clit was inside and we needed a dick to get at it.

But all we need is something hard to hump with our clits, even with our clothes on…and that’s for the women who actually know they have to hump something.

What about the poor women who think they are broken cuz they can’t cum during “PIV” only oral. They don’t realize that oral is the equivalent of getting clit humped. 🤭🤭

So blame the clit 🤭🤭

0-13 · 2022-07-16T03:11:30+00:00

What? You see one incel post and run with it. You gotta vet these thoughts early on before you overthink it this hard.

ThrowRAmtf · 2022-07-16T08:59:30+00:00

you are talking about something like "Brave new world"

remove the pregnancy variable from the equation of sex and you will have gender neutral sex.

But this won't automatically make sex more available.

Guess what, the only practical way to make sex available was to limit the female sexual freedom, but this is impractical now.

Imaginary-Loan-2216 · 2022-07-16T09:19:42+00:00

You're close to the right answer, very close. The outcomes are all reasonable too, even world peace, amusingly

Here's the part where you got it wrong: it's not that women are looked down upon for having sex, and it's not that men treat sex as an implicit deed to a woman's womb (I don't even know what that means but I know that's not it lol)

Nope, it's not that men look down on them, or the world looks down on them for having sex.. it's all themselves. They look down upon themselves for having sex. They are ashamed of themselves for having sex, for wanting to have sex, for enjoying sex

It's all them and the only way it can change is if they change themselves, which should be the easiest thing to change, right? But it damn sure doesn't seem that way. Even with world peace on the line, they won't let go of their crazy ways of thinking, so what do you do? Fuck it, I'm going gay, I dunno about you guys

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-07-16T10:54:47+00:00

You throw around a lot of rather objectifying words, so it's difficult to follow your reasoning completely, though it has some merits.

As a woman, I've never seen myself as "damaged goods" nor have never been interested in any man who had that type of ideas. My having sex or not depends entirely on whether I find it desirable or adequate with a given man, not on what society dictates.

Maybe I had those ideas in a very distant past as a teenager, but luckily, living now in a very secular society that doesn't expect chastity from women (as it doesn't from men), those are very dim memories of the past.

So, my sexual life wouldn't increase or decrease in frequency because of this.

But I could imagine it being otherwise in deeply misogynistic or religious societies.

Title	The entire crux of every debate ever had in the pill ecosystem is rooted in the fact that women are looked down upon for having sex
Author	CursedLemon
Upvotes	29
Comments	217
Date	July 15, 2022 6:46 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vzw248/the_entire_crux_of_every_debate_ever_had_in_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-entire-crux-of-every-debate-ever-had-in-the.1123688 https://theredarchive.com/post/1123688

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