Is "trying" overrated?

NockerJoe · 2023-05-21T03:04:44+00:00

In my dating history the amount I tried had no correlation to the actual results. A woman is either into you or she isn't and no amount of flowers or thoughtful dates will bridge that gap. A woman who actually gives a shit is cool with a dinner at McDonalds and a night of netflix because your company is whats important. A woman who isn't will drink the wine and leave no matter how much it costs.

When women complain their guy isn't trying 90% of the time its a dude who never even gave a shit about them to even bother with the McDonalds and Netflix regularly. If some other dude brought them flowers they still wouldn't call him after, they'll just wonder why the dude they really care about isn't giving the same energy.

...but a man is that second dude way more often than he's the first. Even if you're that into him odds are he's had a few dates that didn't work out no matter how hard he tried because thats kinda how dating works. Its not uncommon for dudes to just not do high effort dates after a certain point IME, simply because thats how the dynamic socialozes them.

DerayRevan · 2023-05-20T19:38:26+00:00

Trying beats wondering what could've of happened if you did

But am a lazy individual so when l try something l also have every right to complain

Ok_Tomorrow_3963 · 2023-05-20T19:22:18+00:00

I think dudes have started to try less and less because it's gradually sinking in. Especially the past couple of years I've seen the complaint that "guys don't even try anymore" way more

tired_hillbilly · 2023-05-20T21:12:27+00:00

Life used to involve self-improvement naturally. My dad didn't need to go to the gym; he worked a physically demanding job. He didn't need to force himself to socialize; there was nothing else to do.

wtknight · 2023-05-20T22:15:36+00:00

Do you think most men who get relationships genuinely tried?

"Trying" for men who aren't naturals usually means playing a numbers game and interacting with enough women until a guy finds one who is attracted to him. Too many men give up easily and therefore stop trying.

It also means self-improvement. If a sexually unsuccessful man isn't trying to improve himself in some way to make himself more attractive, then he isn't trying.

DapperDan1929 · 2023-05-21T13:52:53+00:00

I love this post.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-05-21T00:14:06+00:00

My frame of reference is off because guys I date don't really try all that hard, my high school bf got with me because his friend set us up. He was very good looking and his best friend was obsessed with him and getting him a gf. I actually knew his best friend wanted to set him up with a girl so I started talking to his best friend and made subtle hints (no direct asking) and he set us up.

Some guys are really lucky to be born and have nearly everything handed to them on a silver platter. If you are very attractive people will be throwing themselves at you and making your life very easy. So those guys don't have to try. I dont actually understand what average guys go through in this regard because I don't really date men I think are "just average". When this sub goes on and on about how average women need to like average men it confuses me, because why would anyone want just average when they can get much better?

I also haven't been humped and dumped so I was very confused about average women going for Chad and being rejected for commitment. I can at least get an exclusive relationship with men I am very attracted to for a few months at least. Obviously it only happened a few times but it happened enough to where I know if I just wait 6-12 months, another man I find attractive will show up and be into me.

My experience absolutely does not match this forum at all and sometimes I wonder why I even try to argue for anything on here. I guess I am too privileged to relate to most of this stuff. I thought everybody got with someone they found attractive-- "just a matter of taste!" Etc. After reading this forum and a few others it hit me like a ton of bricks. I just can't relate to any of these redpill theories at all. Honestly I probably shouldnt even be here.

However I found the blackpill and that's starting to pull me in and is warping my opinion on things. It's not a healthy mindset but it makes so much more sense to me than this "holding frame" stuff. The guys I know with the most game? They are all 8/10 guys with handsome/beautiful faces. There's no way that is a coincidence, obviously they are good with words and social skills, but their good looks helped reinforce that pro social behavior. My taste in men is also hardly niche, so many other attractive girls are into those guys. Good looking men are immensely privileged in dating.

grendalor · 2023-05-20T23:11:50+00:00

I think the main benefit from "trying" (by which I mean trying to do things that improve your odds of success -- some combination of self-improvement and social engagement, generally) is that it is an important item to eliminate as a cause of your problems. If you don't actually give it a "good try", you won't know whether you're failure results from not really trying or from something else. So giving it a good try for a while and seeing what happens are important to eliminate that as the reason for your lack of success.

If you're trying (and again, I mean legitimately improving in objective ways that matter for dating, and engaging socially in an active way for an extended period of time), and you're not getting anywhere after a solid investment of time doing that -- which is probably a few years at least -- then you can conclude that your issues do not arise from a lack of trying, and are sourced elsewhere. So it's useful as a process of elimination type thing, even if it doesn't, in the end, lead to success for you personally.

And, yes, some people do "luck into" things -- not just in romance. Luck is a part of life and dealing with the fact that others may be luckier in some areas of their lives than you is also a part of life, and it shouldn't impact your own personal strategy to achieve your goals one way or the other. However, you do have to decide clearly what your own personal goals are, for yourself, and how much effort you want to put against them -- how important they are, in terms of what you are willing to do in order to make a very solid try to achieve them ... or not. There isn't a "one size fits all" answer, there -- different guys will come up with different answers. My own sense is that increasing numbers of men are deciding not to try because they are judging that it isn't worth the effort to do so. That may be right for some of them, while being wrong for some of them as well, depending on what their own goals are, how strongly they desire them (how important they are personally) and how much effort is involved in their specific case to reach a result that is motivating -- it varies, but my sense is the number of guys who are sitting out is increasing slightly.

That won't have much of an impact on the market overall, I think, because the men in question are the least desirable ones, generally, who were not having an impact in the market anyway. Women won't miss them sitting out, generally (on the margins women prefer singleness by a wide degree to being matched with an unsuitable man), and they weren't really competition for most men, either, so their sitting out won't help make things easier for the remaining men to any significant degree. It will only have a significant effect if the number of such men increases quite a bit ... and I don't see evidence of that happening when you look at the rates of singleness in the 30s and 40s.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-05-21T19:10:39+00:00

As someone who tried to get his first gf for the past 12 years or so and never got one, I say that trying while you obviously lack looks, money and status is just a waste of time. Self improving and self happiness is the way to go when you are an average or under average man. I literally spent thousands of pounds over the course of these years, days of trying to talk to women, to date them, to flirt with them, to learn, to be coached and so on, and yet I got absolutely zero results and I am still told "try harder" even after 12 years of trying. So yeah, "trying" is pretty much useless when you lack looks, money and status. Self improving yourself as a man, to get rich and succesful, now that is an objective that is not only possible with hard work but definetly worth it.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-05-20T19:29:09+00:00

"Are you actually trying?" could be sincere advice about how you need to stop being complacent about improving yourself and also put in some more effort on dates, in ways that women recognize.

Or it could be to say that surely your problems are all your fault because you're lazy and entitled.

If it's your friend it's probably the former. On Reddit it's probably the latter.

MysterySolverDog · 2023-05-20T20:53:02+00:00

My general thoughts on this is that if you're significantly overweight or have some other fixable issue then "trying" isn't overrated and if you worked on ameliorating it you'd probably see some results.

If you don't have some easily fixable issue and you're just slamming your head over and over into the wall with no results then "trying" is probably overrated. I've seen posters here assume that if you have a mixed friendship circle and don't have something massively wrong with you, you'll find a date. This is obviously not correct, but past this point I'm not sure more effort is going to help and I think it's probably better to just put your hopes of getting a date on ice rather than deal with the continual disappointment.

Updawg145 · 2023-05-21T05:53:48+00:00

Trying hard is terrible advice. My problems with women increased in my life directly proportionately to how hard I tried and how much of a fuck I gave.

When I was young, I was almost annoyingly good with women, and it was all because I didn't give a shit. I didn't try at all.

But, it's important to define what "trying" actually means here. Trying, typically, refers to exerting yourself in some way. Maybe you're working out 5 days a week to make yourself more physically attractive, maybe you're trying to make tons of money to win girl's over with your resources and status, maybe you're running game and trying to impress or seduce women with all kinds of tactics and strategies. Basically, you're putting in a significant amount of effort towards this singular goal.

Trying hard does work in some areas of life, but it does not work with women. This is because relationships with women are subject to something called the law of reversed effort, which refers to a phenomenon where the harder you try to do something, the less likely you will be to succeed. Some common non-dating examples:

- If you get in bed and try really hard to fall asleep, you will not fall asleep. If you try NOT to fall asleep, you will fall asleep

- If you try really hard to pee in a public stall, you will not pee. If you don't even think or care about peeing, you will pee.

- The harder you try to cut a piece of steak, the worse the cut will be. If you let the knife's weight do most of the work, the cut will be great.

Etc etc.

Basically, many things in life work out so that the resistance effect created by the exertion of effort, compensates for and often time out-performs the effort itself. A similar example is the harder a boat engine works, the more resistance the water puts on the boat, eventually capping out it's maximum speed (maximum hull speed). Another great example is, the closer we get to the speed of light, the more energy we need to accelerate, to the point where we would need infinite energy to reach the speed of light.

So, with this in mind, how do we then "reach the speed of light". We stop trying to go so fast, and instead find smarter ways to solve the problem (theoretical solution: wormhole). Okay so what's the "wormhole" when it comes to dating women? Stop trying to date women. Stop trying to impress women. Stop caring if women are into you. Stop caring if women need you.

Your newfound confidence, aloofness, and go with the flow charisma will paradoxically result in exactly what you wanted when you were trying so hard: women will find you mysterious, fun, and alluring. THEY will now be exerting effort trying to get with YOU. Congrats, you've won dating, enjoy your endless women.

resultsmatter1 · 2023-05-20T20:29:14+00:00

You should try but not for them. You should try for you.

I feel like the amount of effort needed to attract an average girl in America isn’t worth it.

63daddy · 2023-05-20T22:48:30+00:00

It reminds me of the saying “perfect practice makes perfect”. The point being poor practice doesn’t help. In the end, it’s the skill that matters not the effort to develop the skill.
I agree there’s a huge difference between men and women. Most women, at least women if typical dating age can easily get a guy, it’s just a matter of how picky they want to be. This is compounded by hypergamy. Men are expected to bring more to the table, since they are expected to be providers and protectors.

Routine_Criticism_30 · 2023-05-21T02:01:52+00:00

Wait, what does “trying” mean in this case? Certainly staying at home and binge watching tv shows wouldn’t count as trying. If that same person were to download a dating app, would that count as trying? Or would it count as trying until and only when that person goes out on a date and tries to look presentable, and behaves in a way that lets the other person know that they are eager about that date?

Ohms2North · 2023-05-21T03:51:39+00:00

Do or do not. There is no try

Eschew_Sloth-232 · 2023-05-20T23:46:12+00:00

Trying to get what? When men realize they are mostly disliked and at best tolerated they adjust. It's not nice to feel like a burden, it seems there is no right way to be a man, if you are top 5% in status and attractiveness you make a nice accessory I guess.

kochIndustriesRussia · 2023-05-20T19:54:19+00:00

Well I think guys that pull easy don't try...probably their dads didn't either. But there are guys that seem to have a harder time getting girls and I think all the "dating strategy" self-improvement stuff is mostly for them. Some guys have been fit their entire lives. They were active kids...stayed in sports thru young adulthood...and by the time they're 25 they've probably got a few girls that have fallen in love with them and would like to marry. Other guys are 32 and just discovering now that if you're a broke fatass most girls won't be interested. I think there's a place for trying.

FakeNewsFredo · 2023-05-20T23:08:19+00:00

I think that people had an easier time just meeting organically in the (distant) past. There was less competition, too.

These days, social media and apps have increased the level of competition by several orders of magnitude. It's like going to a recruiter looking for a job with your resume in hand, and he remarks blandly how amazing it is that he has access to 10 million other resumes just like yours across the planet.

So, you have to 'try' making yourself more 'desirable' and 'marketing' yourself so that you can compete. Some people have improved themselves over time, but are terrified of rejection.

A couple of thoughts. Women are addicted to attention. Instagram, facebook, whatever. The attention that they seek from men with no payoff for men is a major time-suck on society (except when they're selling some product). Men following girl's intagrams to just to look at big tits and huge asses is a major waste of time and productivity. Men are addicted to that. A lot of those pics are filtered or fake anyhow.

Way back when, you would just shove your favorite porno in your VCR, and ten minutes later, you were good to go. You didn't have shite 'fed' to you constantly that you felt compelled to respond to.

RedditAlt999 · 2023-05-21T02:27:38+00:00

So, this seems to boil down to which is more logical/realistic: red pill vs black pill. Both have merits and valid points. Black pill says if you aren't born a Chad, you might as well give up. Red pill says genetics don't matter, get in shape, work on your game, keep your frame, etc. For an average guy, it really only comes down to: how motivated are you to get average, to above average, women? I wouldn't blame any guy who just gives up because the average woman portrayed on social media is a complete buffoon. For weight loss and physique, we're talking more than a year of constant motivation and discipline. All of that for one of these modern women? It's a hard sell, I know.

nicoleberry16 · 2023-05-20T23:54:43+00:00

I think a lot of guys try but they end up failing, in that case it's likely that they aren't attractive enough and aren't meant to date plain and simple. Not everyone's cut out for romance just in the same way that not everyone will be tall enough to go on a theme park ride.

Wing_Puzzleheaded · 2023-05-22T06:40:18+00:00

It's funny because most women put in next to no effort themselves. Show up, look good, free drink/supper, that's it.

Safinated · 2023-05-20T22:47:09+00:00

If you look dirty and scruffy, sit on your ass all day, do nothing and talk to no one, should you expect to get dates?

januaryphilosopher · 2023-05-20T20:10:36+00:00

Just because some people get luckier than others means you should put in no work to help your chances? What kind of logic is this?

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-05-21T09:42:22+00:00

while other men basically meet women by accident

Into puberty I felt this exact way. My cousins, uncles and a ton of my friends, all appeared to ‘get it.’ Girls came easily. I was the opposite. Late bloomer. Was always sociable, but not attractive enough.

Then I put in the work.

My outcomes went from night, to day. It wasn’t that I was envious. It was because I was first self aware; then willing. To make changes. Life, for the majority; is a meritocracy. You get what you earn.

Godspeed and good luck!

2023-05-20T19:33:42+00:00

Depends on what you mean by “trying”.

Trying to make yourself look reasonably attractive, cultivating a social life that gives you the opportunity to meet people you might want to date, and if you like someone going out of your way to spend more time with them (either casually spending time or by asking them out) is the bare minimum if you want to date imo. If you’re not doing that, then yeah you aren’t “trying.” Which is ok! But it will make it a lot harder to find someone.

Ok_Tomorrow_3963 · 2023-05-20T20:32:32+00:00

i feel tht most guys try until something deters then and they give up so they wnt really kno there full potential😩🤷🏼‍♀️

WildWook · 2023-05-21T03:18:40+00:00

The last part of your post sounds like you know life is unfair but are upset about it.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-21T03:42:33+00:00

Yes, it is good advice.

Most men these days it seems are very afraid of pulling the goddamned trigger.

You can see it in the questions they ask: "I had a GREAT first date, we talked for hours, but why did she ghost me?"

Because you didn't do your job.

Women talk. Men do.

The game is very simple: red light, green light.

Men it seems have forgotten how to play this game.

Do you think most men who get relationships genuinely tried?

Probably not.

And most men have shit relationships with shit terms.

Do you think your dad "tried" and treated dating like a full-time job with all the self-improvement nonsense that comes with it, or did he just happen to stumble across a girl he liked, fell in love, and the rest is history?

Yeah, that's how most guys do it. They stumble into it. And that's exactly why they have to settle for shit relationship terms. Because they don't know how to replicate that success. And when the woman you're with knows you can't replace her or get laid easily without her 'help,' she literally has you by the balls.

I just don't understand why some men are expected to put in so much effort and work to find a girl while other men basically meet women by accident and have as much if not more success.

No guy who has success with women does so by accident. It's definitely by design. I met my first serious gf because I was talking to strangers -- namely cute girls --- in the student union, and she was one of the ones who bit. I ran the same routine on her I had on everyone else. Met another girlfriend doing the same thing at a bar. Met another one doing the same thing at a party.

Knowing how to get your sexual needs met as a man is an invaluable asset.

Without it, there is no way a man will have as much success.

neetykeeno · 2023-05-21T08:35:32+00:00

If you want something you probably need to be regularly putting in effort towards it. I mean just saying...most of ordinary human success is the result of small incremental improvements plus planning and effort not to go backwards. How an ordinary person ends up in the situation where treating chasing ordinary success like a full time job is necessary is either by remarkable poor luck or not trying in the right ways at all for an extended period of time.

Yes, the men of previous generations tried. They didn't have all the modern amusements and distractions we do so they didn't as often totally neglect trying and didn't end up with their romantic appeal being the equivalent of a hoarder house or a 600 pound human being or a garden overrun with huge weeds... something that requires an extended period of concerted effort just to become functional.

Once you're in a predicament...like being 600 pounds...or having a hoarder house...or having stopped being social and not developed social competence and integration equal to your age...or being thirty and never having held down employment...well you're in a predicament. And that's why the effort necessary is higher and the likely outcomes lower.

I think men of previous generations tried. They bothered themselves with whether they were getting fat, whether they were doing well at work, whether the men at the local pub liked them, whether they were meeting girls, whether their clothes were impressive, whether their hair was cut and whether their shave was close.

Here's an interesting little video about a man, his journal and his clothes in the 18th century...it doesn't contain any talk of chatting up girls but since the channel is largely about material aspects of history it wouldn't. https://youtu.be/BEwSXhzaF8E

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-05-20T20:22:49+00:00

You think most people randomly trip over someone and the next step is fall in love, get married, live happily ever after??

Your complaints about some men having to put in a ton of effort while other men don’t is like a petulant school kid complaining that they have to study really hard while their buddy can play video games till 3am the night before a test and still pull A’s. Some people have natural ability and some people are lucky and some people are both, and some people are neither and have to work extra hard

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TheOrangeGhost · 2023-05-21T02:16:34+00:00

Trying is good putting pressure on your self about dating is bad. Asking people you find attractive and interesting on a date is trying. Getting anxious and sick over a date is counter productive. The best way to look at dating isn't like your purposing a relationship but instead like your asking the person if they just want to enjoy a good time with you. Your not asking her to be girlfriend your just asking if she wants to try a new restaurant out. That helps you appear more confident and thus more attractive.

RealAmericanWeasel · 2023-05-21T02:31:14+00:00

I think that's part of the problem. For a lot of people, it's probably just the natural course of action and not something they had to consciously try to do. They have people interested in getting to know them and they return the favor if things line up on their end. If you're in a position where you have to, "try," you're probably working from a disadvantage..

sexualdeskfan · 2023-05-21T05:00:10+00:00

If you’re not doing basic things to appear more attractive like keeping fit, making an effort with your clothes or grooming habits and not making an effort to actually talk to women you aren’t trying hard enough.

The reality is that everyone is capped at how attractive they can become through effort, if you’re a 5/10 nice clothes and a six pack isn’t going to get you a 9/10 woman but I have no time for people who do nothing and then complain attractive women aren’t throwing themselves at them.

WomenPickMen · 2023-05-21T08:36:55+00:00

Women pick men.

That causes a lot of men to just not care.

Because women make it pretty obvious who they think is attractive and who isn't.

Den_the_God-King · 2023-05-21T09:35:05+00:00

So many women out there, can’t f ‘em all… sure can try though…

Mentathiel · 2023-05-21T10:36:29+00:00

I met my first bf through a mutual friend, we hung out in the same group of friends for a while, he asked me out.

I met my second bf through my best friend, they went to high school together. We didn't hang out much, but hit it off at my best friend's birthday party. He watched an anime I mentioned and hit me up on FB to chat about it and invited me for coffee.

I met my current bf at work. We hung out a lot on Discord while working from home and sort of started being into each other. He invited me to come to his birthday party a bit early to discuss wtf is going on between us. I wasn't ready to date or anything immediately due to personal reasons, but I invited him not long after.

My first and current bf are introverts. My current bf occasionally goes to the gym or exercises at home, struggles to keep it up regularly, like most of us do tbh, my exes didn't exercise at all. They worked on their careers for their own sake to my knowledge, they aren't like I need to have this grindset to score money and status to get girls, they're just trying to work at something they enjoy that pays well and fulfills them. They aren't signing up for like 5 workshop hobby activities to meet people, we met pretty organically. 2/3 did go to therapy for a while because they felt they needed it and are still trying to improve as people in that sense, but imo that's what we all should do, I'm in therapy myself even though I'm not mentally ill because it helps me work on myself and become better, primarily for my own sake, not so I'd be more of a catch. I assume they're doing it for themselves too.

So I guess my opinion is that self-improvement is great, but doing it to try and score partners is a bit weird. Like, if you do it, you're more likely to have people interested. But if you're doing it just to have people interested, you're a bit unlikely to do it well. I don't think that's the right type of reason that motivates most people consistently. Like, if you're doing all of this self-improvement stuff and you're happier, more responsible, healthier, etc. and you still don't have a gf.. Do you now feel like you've failed? That's ridiculous, you became a better happier person, that's not a failure. But if your primary motivation for doing it was to chase a partner, you might feel like it's a failure.

festival-papi · 2023-05-21T12:22:18+00:00

I personally stopped putting in as much effort after experiencing a glow-up and getting in the gym (mainly for sports in HS, but I started to enjoy it). I'm not sure if it's because of who I am down at my core, the kind of women I go for, or simply my (relatively?) young age here (21) but I just don't see the point of actually trying. Like at the end of the day, what am I even "trying" for? Because from what this sub tells me, I'm drowning in it on the dating apps, I don't need anyone to come into my life and fill some void, there's no reason for me to cohabitate since I do okay even in the state we're in, I don't value marriage as an institution, and when I look at relationships and ask myself why I should want it, my mind goes blank.

Grand-Inspection2303 · 2023-05-21T14:31:18+00:00

The "stumbling" into love and relationship is a rom-com myth tailored to condense romance into an entertaining 90 min. story. Even real-life "how we met" stories are condensed versions of reality that leave out the boring parts. Your Dad may have met women more organically than via online dating. However, he still had to actually get out of his house / apartment, and be around people in order to have a chance at "stumbling across a girl," and he still had screw up the courage to actually talk to her, and he still had to have some charm to establish sexual chemistry, he still had to maintain a certain level of attractiveness, he still had to have decent employment prospects, etc... He likely just didn't make a big deal about any of that because outside the incel and various pilled online communities these things are just kind of assumed to be part of becoming a well-rounded adult male, and we don't assign special labels to all of it.

As for whether it's fair that some men have to put in more effort than others, what are you going to do about it? I don't understand people obsessing about what's fair, what should be "expected," or what quality of person they deserve...it's not like you can complain to the manager of the universe and get reality changed. You've got to deal with reality as it, not as you wish it was. And if you decide the effort required is personally not worth it for you and you want to give up on romance, you're free to do so; nobody's forcing you to do otherwise.

Affinity4186 · 2023-05-22T03:14:34+00:00

Yes. The harder you work to get a woman's affection then generally the worse she will treat you. More men are waking up to this reality.

Who do you think women would treat better in a relationship? The 9/10 Chad with high testosterone and a big sausage who actually has women approaching him? Or the 4/10 with erectile dysfunction problems from low T who can only get women by flashing resources and being an entertaining dancing monkey?

mrcs84usn · 2023-05-20T19:37:01+00:00

I personally thing trying is NOT overrated. Maybe when it “feels” like a man is being a try-hard, it’s off-putting, but you have to have at least some degree of give-a-fuck. For instance, trying would be like arriving to the first date on time, and making sure you utilized proper hygiene and grooming. Being a try hard would be being overly chivalrous in a day and age where that kind of stuff has mostly phased out, especially on a first date.

Zadacat · 2023-05-20T19:39:23+00:00

Sometimes it is really what you need to hear though. It helped me at least

Zabadoodude · 2023-05-20T20:17:40+00:00

I think it depends on how much you're actually trying now. Are you going out regularly, are you tweaking your OLD profile and approach to figure out what works, are you working on style and fitness. If you are, then trying isn't the problem, but I know guys who never go out, don't work on themselves, and are then disappointed they can't find someone.

Starting a relationship is more work for men, than women, because guys have to approach and take the lead. At least in the beginning. It sucks, but if you aren't some giga Chad, you have to put in work

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-05-20T20:17:59+00:00

I think it’s fine to genuinely question what some is doing cause the hard truth most coaches will say is “you know what to do but are you actually doing it all?”

And when you heard dudes here go “well, I set up an OLD profile and got zero matches: so I’m all out of ideas” it’s a legit question. Cause those dudes really think that’s them doing 100 percent, when most people know it’s not.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-05-21T13:47:46+00:00

Do you think your dad "tried" and treated dating like a full-time job

Yes it was called 'courting' and 'wooing'. People took out ads in the personals and went to 'social dances' and often had to get permission from her parents to even take her out and jump through all kinds of hoops including arranging chaperones agreeable to all parties. Maybe more like my grandfather's or great grandfather's age but still. In fact, it was even more "leg work" as the social expectations on a man were a lot higher then than now in regards to courting, flirting, dating.

Most men who are in relationships haven't done grueling work, but they have put themselves out there, practiced talking to people, kept swiping and kept being social outside their homes as well.

More women approach than ever in human history but it's still a minority compared to men.

Trying is definitely good advice for someone who never/rarely leaves their home and isn't talking to at least ten women a week organically. Sometimes it takes deliberate motion, but it doesn't have to be a part-time job or full-time job or anything. Just a handful of words to a handful of people and venturing out into the world and/or keeping tabs on a few apps.

toasterchild · 2023-05-21T16:27:12+00:00

A question isn't advice. It's just a question. Some people have to try harder than others to get the same shit because life isn't fair. You don't have to try but you shouldn't expect to just have whatever you want fall in your lap.

Title	Is "trying" overrated?
Author	Glass_Bucket
Upvotes	76
Comments	154
Date	May 20, 2023 7:20 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13n3mty/is_trying_overrated/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-trying-overrated.1219851 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219851

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