Apparently “Men are only incentivized by what women reward” and “Women shaming/punishing men only pushes them away”.

jazzmaster1992 · 2025-08-01T14:10:49+00:00

I think one belief that needs to die is that women are overwhelmingly feminist and liberal. Plenty of women are "selectively" feminist/liberal and hardly true leftists depending on who you ask. Even more of them are probably more conservative than you think. It seems that way when you come on Reddit sometimes, but even in this sub there is a decent amount of trad women.

Women aren't turning to feminism to deconstruct masculinity en masse, and they're not enabling men to be conservative or traditionally masculine anymore than general society already was. This is all to say that men being conservative in some capacity is the status quo, and most women have more in common with those men than they do with male feminist allies.

DietTyrone · 2025-08-01T13:51:04+00:00

Apparently “Men are only incentivized by what women reward”

Apparently you didn't know the definition of the word incentive.

Incentive: a payment or concession to stimulate greater output or investment.

An incentive is literally something you give someone (a reward) to motivate them to do something. That's literally what that word means. So, yeah, if someone isn't rewarded in some way for an action then there is by definition, no incentive.

babazuki · 2025-08-01T14:28:12+00:00

Isn't morality just treating people right?

If women want to be treated a certain way, and someone does that, isn't that acting moral towards women? How could men behave morally towards women based on their own ideas? That sounds non consensual, therefore immoral.

duncan-the-wonderdog · 2025-08-01T15:05:05+00:00

"Cancelling men"

Canceling, as it's commonly referred to by the chronically online? That isn't real. Those men may get heavily criticized, but they don't get "canceled".

SeemedGood · 2025-08-01T13:44:16+00:00

One is what you do (your sexual choice making) and the other is what you say (usually despite what you actually do).

So yes, what you do counts for a lot more than what you say. And when the two contradict you lose credibility.

wtknight · 2025-08-01T14:26:05+00:00

I think that the problem is that women aren’t giving actual nice men the proper message that they have to be interesting and make a dedicated effort to be attractive in order to attract women. Instead, what men see is women having bad experiences with attractive men, swearing off all men because of this, and then not giving actual “nice men” like them a chance.

Of course, women aren’t attracted to many of these men because they are kind of dull, unmotivated losers. I think that the women of this sub at least try to do a decent job of telling men that they need to be more interesting and more attractive, more so than the women rejecting them in real life might, but the men still always seem to see “women choosing assholes” and then try to berate women for this.

I think that the biggest problem is that Reddit women and the average real life women are often quite different in character, so there seems to be a disconnect between what men see in real life, and what women are telling them about why they aren’t appealing to the opposite sex on here. Women here usually know that all men aren’t a monolith, because many of them are dating or married to good men or have good male friends (although there are always a few misandrists around here). On the other hand, most men here see women as a monolith, unfortunately.

So basically, I’m challenging the way that you are viewing this. Men see what women say (“be a good guy”) and what women do (date and have sex with assholes) as a contradiction, so they see women’s attempts to shame men as an act that they can’t take seriously and thus they ignore women at best and antagonize them at worse.

DashboardPilled · 2025-08-01T13:54:51+00:00

And on the other hand, when women turn to feminism and try to make programs ‘teaching boys to be ashamed of their masculinity’ (teaching them not to be menaces to society), refuse to date Trump supporters, wont date bigots, the MeToo movement, cancelling men they find to be awful, etc. then the reaction is “YOU GUYS ARE INSANE! None of this will work and will drive men to the redpill!“

I don't think anyone here shames women for dating and fucking leftist, anti-Trump men. The real disconnect is when the same women who are "supposedly" against right-wing policies go on a dating app and have sex with a good-looking guy who happens to be on the right and is the opposite of who she would usually settle down with. If you don't think this kind of behavior is hypocritical, I don't even know what to say. If you are choosing men based on their personality, why would you have a short-term fling with someone who is obviously against your own values?

Apparently “women create bad men” but as soon as women use the power they allegedly have over men to shape men the way they like, they also “create bad men” this way.

If you are going to teach your son that he has to be a feminist full-time female respector, but go and have sex with dudes who are the opposite of what you are saying, he will take notes and realize that the redpill is probably closer to reality than whatever you are teaching him. It's all about consistency. If most women were consistently dating and casually fucking the feminist lefty types, there wouldn't have been any disconnect.

Do men behave a certain way based on how “women reward them” or do men have their own morals/beliefs based on multiple types of incentives/disincentives?

Both can be true, though. Why do you think they are mutually exclusive?

Logos1789 · 2025-08-01T13:41:40+00:00

You’re presenting a false dilemma.

How women reward/punish men is one of the contributing factors in each individual man’s behavior.

topforce · 2025-08-01T14:05:48+00:00

Morals are largely shaped by society. And you overestimate importance of morals, if it's not too inconvenient, they can be considered. So it's both to some extent.

About your examples to influence mens behavior:

‘teaching boys to be ashamed of their masculinity’

Collective punishment is bad. And such approach will cause more harm than good.

refuse to date Trump supporters

That's fine

MeToo movement

I have no objections to rapists and pedophiles being punished. But MeToo was basically a witch hunt.

And your examples at corrective behavior are all stick and no carrot and will likely drive men away.

S0yslut · 2025-08-01T14:36:29+00:00

Women turning down Trump supporting men is something that is unsupported by data. Conservatives are mostly likely to be married. Liberal feminist women date my conservative friend all the time and want to marry him. They even sometimes change their hard political stances to be softer around him, but around me they will say things that seem to align with radical left feminist views.. It is a fringe minority of women who are prioritizing political differences.

Rich-Efficiency3394 · 2025-08-01T23:24:04+00:00

I'm gonna blow your mind.

Everyone is motivated by the idea of reward. Nobody undertakes actions with the desire for punishment.

IridikronsNo1Fan · 2025-08-01T13:43:42+00:00

The problem is that you don't try to "punish" Chad. After getting out of a toxic relationship, you decide to get back at dudes who had nothing to do with your relationship by mocking them, belittling them and treating them badly in general. Once you are satisfied, you go back to dating the next toxic Chad.

It doesn't work like that.

Main-Tiger8537 · 2025-08-01T13:55:02+00:00

i certainly do not think the feminist camille paglia is insane quite the contrary and i support calling out toxic behaviors... the issue is if your movement fails to realize at which point they are toxic themselves and calls any critic misogyny or misandry or racism etc...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2TO2gI4NKrY&pp=ygUnY2FtaWxsZSBwYWdsaWEgZGVzdHJveXMgbW9kZXJuIGZlbWluaXNt

you lilith distort many topics with wild conclusions and assumptions... pls get past your confirmation bias and realize that conservative people and liberal people tackle issues very differently... learn to differentiate and how to analyze context + data...

conservatism vs liberalism "shapiro vs destiny" if you do not like destiny talking about such things what about ana kasparian or any given other person...

currently i doubt you understand accountability, responsibility, equality, equity, hypocrisy, double standards, confirmation bias, generally fallacies and so on...

Downtown_Werewolf_44 · 2025-08-01T14:03:09+00:00

You are overly generalizing and it makes you miss the whole point.

On one hand, women are at fault for how assholes behave because “theyre incentivized by women rewarding their bad behavior!”

I doubt that everyone in his right mind think that, everyone is responsible for his own actions.

And on the other hand, when women turn to feminism and try to make programs ‘teaching boys to be ashamed of their masculinity’ (teaching them not to be menaces to society), refuse to date Trump supporters, wont date bigots, the MeToo movement, cancelling men they find to be awful, etc. then the reaction is “YOU GUYS ARE INSANE! None of this will work and will drive men to the redpill!“

All of this would be allright if women were consistent about it. Men are not dumb, they do notice that women didn't stop dating every Trump supporter (as if only men have vote for him...) or canceling every awful men. They continue dating men they found attractive, whatever their believes and dude like Chris Brown are still having careers... Personaly, I wouldn(t say that it will drive men to the red pill , but I said that most of this are only postures and none of this would be effective.

Apparently “women create bad men” but as soon as women use the power they allegedly have over men to shape men the way they like, they also “create bad men” this way.

So men/redpillers need to come to a consensus right now. Do men behave a certain way based on how “women reward them” or do men have their own morals/beliefs based on multiple types of incentives/disincentives?

Once again, everyone is responsible of their actions, I don't think women are creating anything. But we do notice that women claims that they are attracted to kind, sensitive or emotional men but that's not the major traits they are looking for when they are dating. Charisma, leadership, confidence or stoicism are way more important for them. There is an overlap between the guys having those traits and the one being "bad boys" and we see that the bad boy part doesn't bother women that much.

The day those "bad boys" actions will get them massively rejected by women, then we'll have something to talk about.

thedarkracer · 2025-08-01T14:35:31+00:00

So men/redpillers need to come to a consensus right now. Do men behave a certain way based on how "women reward them" or do men have their own morals/beliefs based on multiple types of incentives/ disincentives?

Yup they do. Which is why every bad man in history has not died a virgin but plenty good men did.

Also you talk of feminism? Dude, I can give examples from my country only how feminism is turning into a modern day nazism lol. It's even more toxic than the black mamba from opposing gender neutral rights to defending filing false cases against men to even making fun of male suicides on live tv calling them copycats.

Livid-Log7463 · 2025-08-01T17:51:58+00:00

Because women trying to shape men away from being “bad” is futile but not for the reasons you think, the men who are able to be “bad” here are the desirable ones (yes even the ones who you don’t want to admit are), the ones that all women are exclusively attracted to and will obviously not be changing because they have all options so the result in women trying to shape men is that they only ever pointlessly influence the men that they exclude.

Slingshot7765 · 2025-08-01T18:20:15+00:00

The same feminists who shame masculinity in public will still spread their legs for a toxic asshole who gets her excited. It's only civilized men who fall for feminist gaslighting. If you don't like it, then tell your sisters to stop spreading lies.

statsfodder · 2025-08-01T21:55:01+00:00

You are combining 2+ groups of different men who think/behave/feel in different ways and applying a generalisation to create a hypocrisy to once again say .... wait for it.... "i hate men".

Nidken · 2025-08-02T05:43:20+00:00

Pretty funny that you think there is only either toxic masculinity of feminism

midnight_blue77 · 2025-08-02T06:47:33+00:00

This just in! Men don't like being treated like trash! Apparently, they prefer women who are nice to them!

More on this topic after the weather.

Do men behave a certain way based on how “women reward them” or do men have their own morals/beliefs based on multiple types of incentives/disincentives?

Simps will simp. The majority of men will get fooled by women's manipulative narratives from time to time but this can only work so many times before men catch on and refuse to get manipulated any further.

For the most part, men march to the beat of our own drum. We will never come to a consensus here because if there is one thing the manosphere and the Red Pill is notorious for is that organizing any coherent agreement on anything is as futile as herding cats.

VersionEins · 2025-08-01T13:48:26+00:00

Men are incentivized when you give them what they want. If you refuse to give them what they want, they may try to negotiate, but they won't cooperate with your demands.

petellapain · 2025-08-01T16:27:00+00:00

Women try to create soft men but then only select the ones who resist for dating and sex. There's no contradiction here. Women's behavior is the only contradiction

MarioWilson122 · 2025-08-01T17:35:07+00:00

Well it is still possible to find women that are against those things as there are some that dont support those movements. Even still the men can just pretend to play along with the ones who do and still do the badboy things that should discount them to begin with. So it wouldnt stop those men unless they didnt adapt to the situation so they are still rewarded for that behavior regardless.

Perfect_Sir4820 · 2025-08-01T18:27:20+00:00

So men/redpillers need to come to a consensus right now. Do men behave a certain way based on how “women reward them” or do men have their own morals/beliefs based on multiple types of incentives/disincentives?

Not sure if many men are open to be criticized on behalf of their gender because some entitled half-wit's grandma couldn't get a credit card 75 years ago.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-08-02T09:15:55+00:00

Yep everyone is accountable. I just think your exposing a monolith problem

Alone_Ambition_3729 · 2025-08-01T15:19:06+00:00

Men have numerous incentives, but it should be obvious that sex/reproduction are a big one.

Women aren’t responsible for all the evils in the world. But women are currently sending dangerously mixed signals that do contribute to the evils in the world.

Women reward a set of behaviours with sex. And then feminism creates programs and culture that narrows the number of men with the rewardable behaviours. A huge majority of young men do not receive the looks or the confidence or the split personality to be a demure male feminist but at the same time to be romantically and sexually desirable. A huge majority of young men need to think of gender roles in a bit more traditional of a way if they’re ever going to demonstrate the behaviours that get rewarded with sex/loyalty/family.

FrodoCraggins · 2025-08-01T14:04:25+00:00

Women: “Let’s treat every guy like he’s Johnny Bravo and only out to fuck us at first sight. We’ll heavily test and shame them, but we’ll also only sleep with guys like Johnny. Every other guy gets the same initial hostility even if they’re normal and respectful and don’t try to sleep with us.”

Men: “Cool, Johnny gets to sleep with women sometimes and we get all the same negative treatment he does no matter what we do. Let’s be more like Johnny if we want sex, or let’s reduce contact with these women and go find other ones in another country if we don’t want to be like him.”

Women: “We just can’t understand why only criminals want anything to do with us when we treat everyone like criminals. Why don’t non-criminals want to be treated this way?”

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No-Rough-7390 · 2025-08-01T21:16:44+00:00

There are a couple elements here.

For the millionth time, we live in a default patriarchy. It happens to be a benevolent and simpish one now, but force doctrine is what it is.

Men’s modus operandi is sexual reproduction. So yes, they will attempt to manipulate the environment to best suit their needs. But in a “polite” society such as the western world, there are shared social norms that limit this. This means women have been handed to reigns to reproduction, and that has second, third, and beyond order effects.

On another hand, single moms, teachers, and a gynocentric social order do acculturate men to act as defective women. Is what it is.

Title	Apparently “Men are only incentivized by what women reward” and “Women shaming/punishing men only pushes them away”.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	10
Comments	275
Date	August 1, 2025 1:35 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1mewohl/apparently_men_are_only_incentivized_by_what/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/apparently-men-are-only-incentivized-by-what-women.1558655 https://theredarchive.com/post/1558655

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