Confidence only works for attractive men.

William_Howe · 2019-02-19T20:34:57+00:00

OP, users who create CMV posts are required to engage in the comments. You have one hour to do so, or I am removing this OP.

Thank you.

officerkondo · 2019-02-19T17:24:31+00:00

Confidence only works if you have something to be confident about. Women know this. That is why despite all the talk about "I love when a man has the confidence to approach me!", if the Wrong Kind of Man approaches her, his confidence is not to his credit. To the contrary, she will be offended and remark, "where did he get the idea he could get away with that?"

guy_24601 · 2019-02-19T18:23:58+00:00

correlation vs causation.

Women find the traits that are the source for a mans confidence attractive, not the confidence itself.

Nothing annoys a woman more an undeserved confidence.

Confidence is just a socially acceptable dog whistle for all the things women are not supposed to admit.

confident also means "not passive", and thats a good thing, as long as its not undeserved confidence.

passepar2t · 2019-02-19T17:44:18+00:00

Status matters as much as looks. By acting confident, an average looking guy can trick a less perceptive woman into thinking he's higher status than he is.

belletaco · 2019-02-19T17:28:37+00:00

this is the opposite of truth, attractive men don't even need confidence but confidence and ~charisma can make you think twice about someone you weren't initially attracted to.

crackrocksteady7 · 2019-02-19T17:38:20+00:00

ive never seen it work for an average looking guy.

I've seen it work for skinny mclovin looking types. It's not common though

I'm just not convinced that confidence is that important, or that it will bump you up in terms of attractiveness.

Women are about deal breakers not deal makers. You have to be above her attractiveness threshold and above her confidence threshold (but not too high into the self absorbed douche zone). Both matter. But if you never break the looks threshold your confidence or lack thereof never enters the picture

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-02-19T17:38:45+00:00

masculinity and charisma are what matters.

bahkawdi · 2019-02-19T17:32:18+00:00

I agree with you for the most part. I have been to 100s of parties and 100s of bars, often with groups of good looking girls, and not once ever have I seen this trope of the ugly guy who slays because he is just so charming and confident.

Willingness to talk to people and not fear rejection is important, but confidence without anything to back it up is going to get you nothing.

diffdedbed · 2019-02-19T19:19:51+00:00

What do you think?

Confidence works for really confident men, its very hard to properly fake confidence. Women can sniff that out. I think this is why smarter guys have a harder problem being players, they are not confident because they look in the mirror and over analyze, then think of their flaws, and their insecurity etc.

Johnny Meat Head though, he's just like totally awesome, no introspection into get in his way. He's completely confident even if its not deserved.

Five_Decades · 2019-02-19T22:50:42+00:00

Confidence is a side effect of success. I'm confident I can tie my shoes because I've succeeded at it endlessly in the past.

Women like confidence because that means a man has things women value, and women respond positively to him so he comes to expect it.

-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-02-19T17:13:03+00:00

As a teenager I had a group of close friends.

One was extremely good looking, but a quiet guy. Not unconfident, just quiet and a bit reserved.

One was extremely ugly, but unconfident.

One was an average guy overall, but had terrible acne, “getting the doctor to prescribe lots of potions and pills” acne. He was absurdly confident and funny. Ridiculously so.

Then there was me.

Guess which one of the 4 who had the most success with women ?

If you guessed “absurdly confident pizza face” then gold star for you.

It wasn’t just his confidence. He was a skater, graffiti artist and amateur DJ too... all of which he was decently good at, and I’m sure that helped. He was also funny and displayed lots of risk taking behaviour.

Nevertheless, you can’t tell me they don’t exist. I saw one and hung out with one for about a decade... and he did great with women. Especially towards the latter part of that period where the acne cleared up. It left scars, but the scars were a lot less unsightly than the acne. He was only ever (even post acne) average in looks and IIRC under 6ft in height. Maybe 5 10 or so.

I’m going to bet many of the other PPD regulars know similar guys.

I’m surprised you know no one like this at all.

Does this help CYV ?

rus9384 · 2019-02-19T17:59:55+00:00

Might be a halo effect. That is, if a guy is confident, you see him as attractive. Or might be the opposite: an unattractive guy does not look confident, even though if you would only hear him without seeing he would seem confident.

kittykasbah · 2019-02-19T19:01:41+00:00

Bill Murray is super hot to me but if I just saw him without knowing him at all I doubt I would feel the same way.

[deleted] · 2019-02-19T21:10:27+00:00

If you are a sub5 male confidence is a good way to end up in the slammer or getting the shit kicked out of you by a bunch of white knights.

oodsigma · 2019-02-20T03:51:31+00:00

It's more that insecurity makes you less attractive. Confidence always works, but it's not a golden gun. Butt ugly dudes are butt ugly no matter what, but a confidant one is way less repulsive than a insecure one. No matter how attractive you're talking, given two people who are equally good looking, the confident one will be more attractive.

GradualDecomp · 2019-02-19T17:38:47+00:00

You've never met a fat funny man who's popular because he cracks everyone up? Really?

thy_shall_win · 2019-02-19T17:10:13+00:00

Maybe you should get out more. I see ugly/average confident guys and girls all the time.

Definelty is easier being confident the better looking you are.

shonenhikada · 2019-02-20T05:27:16+00:00

Women only value 3 things in men:

Looks (Height and/or face)
Money
Social Status

DryOpal · 2019-02-19T23:38:44+00:00

As a guy who lost ~100lbs and made a huge transformation in my appearance (the kind you see on r/brogress, similar to this) I have to say I agree with the OP.

The way people treat you when you're attractive is so much different. I don't mean average. I mean attractive. You get this message reinforced all the day. Women walking their dogs not only don't avoid you, they initiate conversation. Women in retail way, way too polite and courteous as they try and flirt and a million other examples. Once you start to experience this reinforcement in your daily life, THEN the confidence comes, not before.

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wobbleelbbow · 2019-02-19T20:11:21+00:00

One name. Patrice O'Neal. And I already hear your hamsters

statusincorporated · 2019-02-20T03:20:10+00:00

I agree. Confidence isn't by itself attractive.

How do I know?

Some of the periods in my life when I was getting the MOST undeserved action were periods of DEEP CRIPPLING insecurity/awkwardness/doubt, etc.

But (1) I looked good (2) was fit (3) still was intelligent/funny (an actual skill/aptitude apart from confidence) (4) (maybe most important) had a good career/potential and money or potential for money, and (5) pretty all right lover (what makes me good is just a willingness to take direction, ask questions, and learn that particular woman --- any guy who does that will be a great lover in no time flat; it's shocking how many don't).

1-5 are your fundamentals, kids.

If they're strong, you're strong.

Confidence or no confidence.

BUT....

confidence is nevertheless NECESSARY

why?

Because it motivates you to keep going.

To keep talking to women, to keep trying to find the next 'one.'

The most important thing a single guy can do for his dating life is to ALWAYS BE CLOSING/talking to NEW women.

And to do that...you need confidence.

IDGAF what anyone tells you...any dude who's getting laid a lot is getting rejected way way way way more.

EmpoweredGirl · 2019-02-19T18:50:08+00:00

If Patrice O'Neal was still alive he would have bitch slapped you across the face right now. Ditch this mind set you are basically falling into a pit of confirmation bias, you are choosing to see what you want. If you're a confident interesting person then people will want to hang around you, it's as simple as that. Once you have that there will be some proportion of those who will also find you sexually desirable, confidence > looks especially if you are average looking. Also most guys can get to average looking or better just by investing 2 years to getting buff in the gym.

Zanajin · 2019-02-19T17:11:23+00:00

Patton Oswalt is no hottie but he uses charisma to land whomever he wants.

-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-02-19T17:03:42+00:00

As you’ve made an affirmative claim in your title I have flair this a CMV.

You’ll be expected to show a willingness to have your view changed and actively engage in your thread or it will be removed.

Please make a small edit in your OPs body like adding a comma. This will summon our automod.

knicca · 2019-02-19T18:35:58+00:00

I think confidence is a tricky word because everybody defines it differently. I think confidence in relation to self esteem is important. People who radiate insecurity and frustration are going to have more issues in dating.

For instance. If somebody is unconfident in the sense that they are not comfortable in their own skin, or are in a state of desperation, it shows, and it is unattractive. Most people have dated somebody like that, and it is draining.

Somebody who has healthy self-esteem and who does not need constant validation, is going to be more attractive, or at least just a lot less unattractive.

I used to think of confidence as loudness, boldness, pea cocking etc. But you can be quietly confident as well. You can be somebody who plays video games day in and day out, have a beer gut, and still be confident, attractive even.

I don't think a lot of men realize how blatantly creepy or thirsty they come off. Looking at tinder messages my female friends receive, the vast majority are just piles of red flags and people who are just ultimately un-self-aware.

concacanca · 2019-02-19T17:10:54+00:00

Maybe confidence is what makes people attractive.

Rebikhan · 2019-02-19T18:03:13+00:00

Confidence is a part of attractiveness... it’s independent of looks. Being more physically attractive may help you feel more confident with the opposite sex, but they’re separate metrics.

bonslytoss · 2019-02-19T18:24:16+00:00

Attractiveness is a holistic thing that factors in many different variables, especially when attracting women. Depending on the kind of relationship you are seeking, you may not even need to check every box.

Whenever I see "confident" men, it's almost always an attractive guy.

If we replace "attractive" with "hot," then we have a guy who has the relationship history and potential social network to inspire confidence anyway. If we simply consider "attractive" to mean that he combined confidence, charm, and a mixture of other strengths like income potential or intelligence, he could still be ugly and still have relationship success with someone who was simply looking for a rich or intelligent man, which also inspires confidence even if not right away. Therefore, your point is invalid unless we assume that 5/10 males are only satisfied or successful when they are with 8/10 females.

IQtheMC · 2019-02-19T19:13:45+00:00

Ever seen RSD Tyler and Luke?

Hayley_42 · 2019-02-19T19:17:33+00:00

I mean, confidence doesn’t have to be an “in general” thing, you can be confident about a hobby you’re passionate about for example. Like let’s say an average guy is good at video games, he might be confident in playing them when facing others.

KikiYuyu · 2019-02-19T19:30:55+00:00

Weird example, but look at this performer

Just a tubby white guy right? But those pipes! That attitude! Hot as fuck... to me at least. Takes confidence to sing in a band, on tv, in a silly outfit.

TheDarkerKniht · 2019-02-19T21:55:57+00:00

I think being ugly or attractive would definitely impact your confidence from early on in your life so thats apart of the problem

fentydeluxe · 2019-02-19T22:01:21+00:00

Confidence is a byproduct of competence so it works for anyone who is proficient in a certain domain. Or in other words, learn how to get good with women.

Crashlands · 2019-02-19T22:41:57+00:00

If you believe confidence doesn’t work because you “tried” confidence and it didn’t work out for you, it’s because you weren’t really confident. You were trying to fake confidence, which is almost always obvious. Masked insecurity is much, much worse than obvious insecurity.

Confidence is developed. It’s not a behavior...it’s something that shows in all of your other behaviors, demeanors, and body language.

VNyall · 2019-02-19T23:27:55+00:00

Young attractive guys are confident about being attractive. Ugly guys need to be successful and be confident about that.

Moldy_Gecko · 2019-02-20T00:22:08+00:00

Have you never seen a pickup artist? Most of them are the ugliest men you'll ever see. But their confidence, facade or not, is how they get laid. Shit, I'm not that confident and I'm mildly attractive, but my game is good. I still don't get laid as much as my uglier, confident friends. I get girls quite often, but these guys can literally get them anytime they go out.

longacidrain · 2019-02-20T02:52:38+00:00

I like normal interactions with people confidence comes off as cocky very easily.

Truedemocracy4 · 2019-02-20T02:55:37+00:00

Nah, this isnt true. I'm red pilled but have seen confidence make average men get pretty attractive women.

smokecheck1976 · 2019-02-20T04:20:26+00:00

Are they attractive because they are acting confident or confident because they are attractive?

For a fairly average guy, confidence can work wonders.

GrumpyOldHistoricist · 2019-02-20T14:38:18+00:00

The most radicalized men-hating females are nonwhite females that were rejected by white men. These females secretly despise white women because white women are the first choice of alpha men but they can't hate on women due to feminism so instead they chimp out against men.

This was just posted in another thread here. I didn’t even have to cherry pick to find something insane. An hour old comment from literally the first thread I clicked after replying to you. And shit like this gets posted here on the regular.

Or am I missing the sarcasm there too?

HiDiNoWro · 2019-02-20T18:47:52+00:00

If an average or ugly male is confident it will be seen more as having an attitude, and women are more likely to see him as a creepy rapist.

BadgerwithaPickaxe · 2019-02-19T17:12:49+00:00

Confidence makes your more attractive. So maybe you’re seeing the effect that confidence has on average men.

I’ve also had the thought “damn how did he score her” more times than I can remember. It’s a pretty common thing for ugly confident guys to get girls.

CrestfallenWolf · 2019-02-19T17:50:29+00:00

This again? Are you going to screech about how looks are all that matters, back pedal on that hardcore, then call everyone else morons for using your words like the last 2-3 people to put this stupidity forward.

WhatIsTheMeaningHere · 2019-02-19T18:11:48+00:00

Confidence isn't intended to "work". It's intended to allow you to pursue all the opportunities available to you. If you've got the balls to approach anyone, then you'll have more potential prospects.

ScootsScoots · 2019-02-19T21:50:11+00:00

You've never seen an average guy slay pussy? You must not get out very much.

cxj · 2019-02-20T07:37:00+00:00

This is some incel bullshit. Do any of you faggots even status ? I’ve known so many ugly dudes smashing fine ass pusssy . Physically attractive dudes getting run by average ass girls because they have no frame. I’m not saying looks don’t matter they do, but as a man you have way more means of becoming sexually attractive to women . You are projecting female sexuality into men.

Harden the fuck up and be somebody, it’s harder but better than being loved for your body anyways

IllAardvark · 2019-02-19T17:10:49+00:00

Confidence only works for attractive men because being confident is part of what makes them attractive. Confidence makes you attractive, not the other way around.

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-02-19T22:27:44+00:00

Really? What about all those unattractive guys with women? Attractiveness certainly helps but confidence helps also.

VikkBlack · 2019-02-20T13:22:07+00:00

Totally disagree, and I’ve seen lots of average looking confident dudes.

Sad_Virgin_Beta_Male · 2019-02-19T23:07:22+00:00

Confident ugly dudes are clowns.

professor_mcamateur · 2019-02-20T06:19:21+00:00

i think ur attracted to men

Title	Confidence only works for attractive men.
Author	SupremeMystique
Upvotes	75
Comments	362
Date	February 19, 2019 4:59 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/asck1c/confidence_only_works_for_attractive_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/confidence-only-works-for-attractive-men.257114 https://theredarchive.com/post/257114

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