Q4ALL: To what extent should a man pay for a woman on dates (and beyond)?

neualgae · 2019-01-03T14:08:40+00:00

"Strategically" it signals what kind of person you are and what kind of relationship you want. Pay if you want a tradcon relationship. Go Dutch if you want a more egalitarian relationship. "Forget" your wallet and smirk if you want to play push-pull games with unstable clingy girls.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-01-03T14:19:47+00:00

When the server comes with your bill, give them your card without looking at the bill while maintaining conversation with your date. Establish dominance over your date and the server lmao. Pay no mind to how much the bill is and act like it didn't happen.

That's honestly the most successful strategy I've ever employed. She is going to expect that she has to pay for the meal in other ways if you make a big deal about paying and it does signals desperation done that way.

Barely-moral · 2019-01-03T13:54:23+00:00

Try every option that is not unreasonable. See how she reacts. Adapt.

whitetrashcarl · 2019-01-03T16:35:14+00:00

What worked for me personally is to be a cheapass , I hate leading w my provider traits and I want women who are into me enough to hook up without them.

Usually once I’m in a relationship or have a more serious fwb I would just end up buying shit for her mostly bc I don’t really care about a few bucks here and there

dottywine · 2019-01-03T14:24:13+00:00

No. Culturally a man paying isn’t desperate, it’s typically expected.

Whoever invites the other out should be prepared to pay fully and traditionalists will expect the man to pay either way. Continue this until it’s apparent you both like each other and will be going on endless amount of dates.

TallSwaggOVO · 2019-01-03T16:29:14+00:00

Since when did it become desperate for a man to pay??

fatalcharm · 2019-01-03T14:06:09+00:00

Whatever he is comfortable with.

trettles · 2019-01-03T16:05:10+00:00

I always offer to pay for my share. If he insists, I will let him, but he doesn't have to.

GradualDecomp · 2019-01-03T16:53:13+00:00

Whoever does the asking should pay, or at least offer to pay. That's just basic manners.

It's my opinion that first dates should be lowkey and inexpensive for this reason. Don't spend a bunch of money on someone you don't know well. Have coffee and go for a romantic walk.

Once I'm steadily dating someone, we usually take turns paying or go Dutch.

CatchPhraze · 2019-01-03T16:53:45+00:00

I'll always split, but a man that doesn't offer rarely gets a second date.

A first date is your best foot forward. Not offering to pay for a man signals lack of interest or bad manners. Not rejecting that offer and splitting is likewise a bad sign for a woman. After that dates should just assumed to be split or taken in turns.

Electra_Cute · 2019-01-03T13:46:55+00:00

This is kind of a useless question, there is going to be no universal answer to this question, as it would just depend on the expectancy of both parties and the culture they grew up in.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-01-03T13:49:43+00:00

Whatever the standard, identify what they are to you and be able to stick by them. I didn't go to places like dinner all the time just to kill that shit before it even happened.

Strategically, I would take dates out to the Parade of Homes or some shit that didn't cost money. Hell, on my second date I took my 'would be wife' bed shopping at American Furniture Warehouse because the last chick moved out of my apartment and I was sleeping on a air mattress.

It went very well.

peterlongc · 2019-01-03T14:29:16+00:00

if she really likes you she'll let you pay. ;)

her paying is a good way for her to say "i'm not letting you have any power over me"

edit: this may be nonsense. but it's instructive nonetheless.

ilikeallthegreatstuf · 2019-01-03T16:55:11+00:00

Taking a girl on a dinner date or whatever when you're first getting to know her (beyond the first time you got her number or whatever) is stupid. Go for a drink, buy the first round, let her buy the second round. Alternatively, do other stuff that's cheap or outdoors or whatever. If I take a girl out to dinner or whatever, it's to signal that I'm now officially interested and want her to be my girlfriend, at which point I'm happy to pay as a gesture of my intentions, and it should already be assumed that she's interested too, so I'm not wasting my money or time. It's a gesture, and nothing else. Nature is full of gestures like this, like when some male birds bring female birds completely useless items, and so on.

If for whatever reason I end up eating with some girl I'm just getting to know, like for lunch or whatever, I expect her to pay for her own food. If she suggests or hints otherwise, I would ghost.

jkonrad · 2019-01-03T17:48:05+00:00

I pay for most everything because I have money and it's just easier that way. Not paying for shit isn't going to hide the fact that I have money, so what's the point.

I don't have to worry about attractiveness and the other shit in your post, and I don't sweat the small stuff.

belletaco · 2019-01-03T18:06:14+00:00

i thought the rule was whoever initiated it, pays. in the past, if i have initiated a date, i'll go to pay and the guy usually will insist and either he will win or we'll split. i have always offered to at least pay my share when i'm invited out. This is likely the norm??

jonascf · 2019-01-03T18:40:04+00:00

I pay for my stuff, she pays for yours.

Never even bothered with what signals that might send. But if I were to frame it in terms of sending signals I guess it could be said to signal confidence ("My company is pleasant enough that you'll be more than happy to pay for your own stuff when hanging out with me").

buartha · 2019-01-03T19:43:33+00:00

If you're the same age as the person you're dating and on roughly the same level socio-economically then generally either each pays for their own (or they do rounds if you're drinking), or the person who asks pays for the first one and you can alternate from then on. In terms of strategy, by all means do that, but try not to penny pinch while you're doing it (i.e. don't insist that it's right down to the penny and don't cause a scene if she throws in less towards the tip or something) because that kind of neurosis is more unattractive than either choice. On a similar note, don't insist on paying more than twice because it will be seen as equally irritating.

Ultimately though, read the cues. People will interpret your actions based on their own principles and expectations and your best bet if you want to cast a wide net is to learn to read expressions, tone and body language when the subject comes up.

Christian_Kong · 2019-01-03T20:07:52+00:00

Strategically paying is pretty normalized. You aren't going to look like a chump but you might get played like one. Bad strategy is when a woman wants to pay for halves and you refuse after they insist multiple times.

abaxeron · 2019-01-03T20:50:57+00:00

(Strategically, not morally.)

Strategically, never.

If you pay, you might get a chance to maybe someday get laid.

Even if you get laid, she might turn out anorgasmic, or smell weird, or you might be anatomically incompatible.

Even if everything goes relatively fine, you may find out 10 years later that she thought it didn't.

Risk of pregnancy.

Risk of STIs.

If you don't pay, you have your real, tangible money with you, and can spend them on literally anything else.

The choice is obvious.

kandyapplez · 2019-01-04T00:06:10+00:00

imagine having a vagina but paying on dates

yeah, let me spend money to give you the opportunity to fuck me? lmao no

[deleted] · 2019-01-04T07:05:27+00:00

If I pay then she has to have sex with me. Or at least a make out session. Chivalry is dead and if a woman wants my money she had to earn it. Best option is not pay for anything until you have fucked her and made her into a girlfriend.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2019-01-04T11:35:24+00:00

50/50 or nothing. Equality for all

Regal_Newt · 2019-01-04T15:08:40+00:00

It doesn't signal being desperate or abundance. It's just nice. Pay for your date to show you care. Other times, she'll pay for you to show she cares.

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jax006 · 2019-01-03T14:16:29+00:00

I like paying for the drinks the first time we go out. $30 is absolutely no skin off my back and I guess it's nice to flaunt that a little bit.

I pay close attention to what she does tho - if she doesnt at least grab her purse and try to split it then I'm like hmmm yellow flag

Definitely split it the 2nd date so I dont set the stage wrong.

Manny1400 · 2019-01-03T15:11:31+00:00

The man pays always. If the woman offers to take you to dinner, tell her that you would like it better if she cooked you a nice meal at her place ...

Guys that don't pay for the dates, especially the first couple, are looked at as cheapskates or losers, and rarely get additional dates. Every woman I have ever spoken to confirms this.

If you don't like it, sorry. I don't make the rules. Either look like a chump, or do what is expected.

Tedesche · 2019-01-03T15:49:53+00:00

(Strategically, not morally.)

Still depends on your goal. If you’re just trying to bag her for the night, paying is probably the better option with most women. However, if you’re going for an LTR, paying early on sets up the expectation that it will continue, making your potential future girlfriend a huge cash drain.

Also, if it’s an LTR, morality kind of does come into it, because you’ll likely want someone who shares your moral views on the topic.

killallthenarcs · 2019-01-03T16:51:15+00:00

Men differ in their resource level and general happiness spending on those sort of activities even when only paying their own way, women differ, parts of the SMP and RMP differ.

He should spend as much or as little as he decides to.

He should not spend more than he can afford. He should pay attention to WHY he is spending what he is spending and what that means about him... is he spending more because it makes him feel he has done more to get an outcome, does not doing this make him feel anxious? Is he spending less because he harbors resentments that are no doubt obvious to a skilled observer?

He should become aware of the alternatives to spending more money.

If you provide any one answer to this problem and then men adopt it as a general mode, there will be guys who break ranks to game the system you have set up and obtain an advantage by looking exceptional.

You're going to have to be personally responsible on this one. Sorry.

Whodunnit88 · 2019-01-03T17:04:24+00:00

she can pay for herself

decoy88 · 2019-01-03T17:45:41+00:00

If she feels that guy is special, she’ll let it slide. Because the last 5 dates she has been on, the man paid but there was no spark. The first guy she has actual chemistry with isn’t being let go because she has to split the bill.

Similarly if there’s no spark, or she’s on the fence, sure she’ll go on a second date because “why not? It’s free!” Which I guess buys him a little more time to make a better impression but who knows

sassafrass203 · 2019-01-03T18:10:56+00:00

on the first date, i really appreciate a man that pays. any and all dates after that, bill is split, or one person pays food and other pays drinks.

Nodoxxintoxin · 2019-01-03T20:19:06+00:00

Strictly strategically? Pay. Case one, she sees you as an unattractive man. If she sees you as an unattractive man, doesn’t matter if you pay or not. You are not getting anywhere.

Case two she she’s you as an attractive man who is also confident and successful if you pay, but broke or just not that into you if you don’t.

Basically if she isn’t attracted to you, it won’t matter, if she is, paying is a plus.

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2019-01-03T21:07:58+00:00

$1 if you're feeling generous $5.

blackedoutfast · 2019-01-04T00:07:22+00:00

don't start paying for shit until after you've started fucking her. if you're taking girls out on expensive trad dinner dates and trying to flaunt your provider ability, she's just going to mentally put you in the "beta provider guy" box and she will become more sexually inhibited and pursue a "good girl" LTR-oriented strategy with you.

but don't be weird about it. it's no big deal to pay for a round of drinks or whatever. especially if you can make it fun - play games or bet on random shit and the loser buys the next round, etc.

just don't end up buying her drink after drink after drink or see it as a way to win her over or anything like that. if you come across as a beta provider she will guzzle down all those free drinks and then use her drunkeness as an excuse to not fuck you

hshsvdhsiabs · 2019-01-04T05:25:13+00:00

Me and my boyfriend have always taken turns paying. If somebody buys a more expensive thing the other will pay a few times until we feel even. It’s similar to splitting the bill I suppose, except we both get to feel like we are doing a nice thing for the other. This is what I recommend because I think there’s a joy you get from both paying and receiving. Especially because you never feel taken advantage of. And we’ve never had an argument or and issue with this system with 2+ years together. Of course, we aren’t married or living together so perhaps our system would shift with those circumstances

beachredwhine · 2019-01-04T05:56:42+00:00

Depends on what he wants

Aufbruch · 2019-01-04T08:52:29+00:00

A date assuming that you are going to pay for the dinner as a matter of course...that's a giant red flag, for me. By all means, be prepared to pay for it, but if there's zero in terms of a playful game of paying the check/paying the tip...that's a "this one's a dud". At least for me.

waxedmintfloss · 2019-01-04T15:19:11+00:00

He should pay for everything until they are in an established committed relationship, after which they should take turns, until marriage when money should be pooled and shared. Splitting the bill is cringey as hell.

shonenhikada · 2019-01-04T15:48:52+00:00

The difference between your 2 points is based on how close a man is in physical attraction to the woman.

6'2 Chad wants to pay for her on first date and is confident is latter.

<6'0 Average male wants to pay for her and is not always confident equals the former.

And no. Men should not be paying for women on dates at all, It sets the trend in relationship that you must do things for her in order to give you sex which will just have an increased requirement as the relationship moves forward.

pm_me_je_specerijen · 2019-01-04T20:02:02+00:00

It has nothing to do with "desperation" why I dislike it. A) I don't like to accept gifts because that makes me indebted and B) anyone who does anything out of "social identity" feeling they need to do shit just because society says their stupid little social box needs to is obnoxious and difficult to reason with.

I don't care about others being able "to provide for me" because I don't let others; I keep finances separate so the material wealth of my associates is not relevant for me.

heywhathey · 2019-01-04T21:07:42+00:00

From a woman's point of view I don't really see things just one way or another, I think situations and circumstances vary.

Overall though, I'd be happy to split things 50/50 and would typically default there, but if my date really wanted to be the one to pay I wouldn't push the issue nor be too bothered by it. And of course I'd be prepared to pay full in some cases, like if I were the asker or something.

And expressing a desire to pay alone would definitely not cause me to think too much into one's secret motives behind the move in any direction (desperate or dominant). It's common for guys to want to pay for things, I wouldn't really think much of it at all.

ianiemasns · 2019-01-05T04:31:04+00:00

I'm a fan of splitting things up. Not necessarily the check itself, but who pays the check and who tips. Or, one person gets the dinner and the other gets the movie/concert/whatever tickets.

agloelita · 2019-01-05T10:08:45+00:00

Generally I would rather we either split the cost of things down the middle or we pay for our own. Until you're married /living together atleast.

Willow-girl · 2019-01-05T13:33:15+00:00

I'm old and the traditional etiquette was that the person who issues the invitation pays for the date. So yeah, that means you're probably going to be stuck with the tab on the first round, guys. If you're not up for a big investment, make it a lunch or coffee date. But asking someone out and then expecting them to split the tab is tacky.

Massgumption · 2019-01-05T15:31:59+00:00

Pay without question but if she doesn't try to pay herself then that's a huge red flag.

CoMaBlaCK · 2019-01-05T21:57:45+00:00

Strategically you should pay for the first three dates, if you haven’t had sex by date three then cut your losses. If you’ve managed to take it to the hole after three dates you can be a little more loose with paying and then eventually alternate as your relationship builds.

More importantly the first three dates you’re paying for a service so you want to do everything in your power to get that service.

peterlongc · 2019-01-03T13:46:19+00:00

to the extent that he wants her to want him generally.

but he should be flexible as well if she truly desires to pay.

chivalry first, with flexibility

Title	Q4ALL: To what extent should a man pay for a woman on dates (and beyond)?
Author	FunUniverse1778
Upvotes	10
Comments	225
Date	January 3, 2019 1:29 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ac5q25/q4all_to_what_extent_should_a_man_pay_for_a_woman/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4all-to-what-extent-should-a-man-pay-for-a-woman.258049 https://theredarchive.com/post/258049

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